Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 20 of 23 1 2 18 19 20 21 22 23
Joined: Oct 2020
S
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
S
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Soulcatcher30
Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Soulcatcher30
Vhaeraun is the drow god I want represented. Let me play drow traitor priestess.
This would be awesome. Not sure why they left him out in the first place.

I don't know, but drow religions are represented weirdly. Maybe it's something to do with all those retcons that were done to them too, I really don't like what was done to Vhaeraun and Eilistraee in some editions.
Vhaeraun looks like an interesting option too, but all of its clerics are men ...

There are traitor priestesses though. Drow Lolth priestesses that pretend to follow Lolth but in secret follow Vhaeraun. Always wanted a character like that.

Joined: Sep 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Sep 2020
Masked traitors is another name for them I think. Currently headcanoning my Lolth Sworn ranger as an agent of Vhaeraun but would definitely play the traitor priestess/masked traitor.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Eilistraee/Vhaeraun. So, for a good and evil walkthrough, there are excellent options for a drow cleric who has left Lolth and the Absolute.

Perhaps she will not leave the absolute? We do not know what the Absolute is, it may be possible to play as the cult of the Absolute until the end of the game

Joined: Jan 2021
L
apprentice
Online Content
apprentice
L
Joined: Jan 2021
Vhaeraun could work. IDK about Eilistraee though unless they drastically change the criteria for 'recruiting' Minthara. Evil playthrough is the only way to get her so far and has the PC doing some rather heinous stuff, and of course if the player sides with the Druids and/or refugees, she *dies*

Honestly, if the player sides with the goblins as of right now, they'd first have to find a way to squeeze in a redemption arc for the Player character before Minthara, because preaching to Minthara about Eilistraee would ring mighty hollow when standing over the bodies of the Tieflings you slaughtered for her.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Leucrotta
Vhaeraun could work. IDK about Eilistraee though unless they drastically change the criteria for 'recruiting' Minthara. Evil playthrough is the only way to get her so far and has the PC doing some rather heinous stuff, and of course if the player sides with the Druids and/or refugees, she *dies*

Honestly, if the player sides with the goblins as of right now, they'd first have to find a way to squeeze in a redemption arc for the Player character before Minthara, because preaching to Minthara about Eilistraee would ring mighty hollow when standing over the bodies of the Tieflings you slaughtered for her.


Yes it's true. I see an opportunity to make Minthara a cleric of Eilistraee when we saved her life by killing the goblin leaders and taking her prisoner; after, she will communicate with us, and sooner or later we will decide to free her and give her a second chance, after which the arc of redemption will begin. She will not change too much, but it will be an interesting option to go through a good or netural walkthrough with Minthara, a more difficult way to gain her trust, respect, and possibly love.

Now I don't want to play the path of good at all, because there you need to kill Minthara

Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Dec 2020
Location: CA
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Leucrotta
Vhaeraun could work. IDK about Eilistraee though unless they drastically change the criteria for 'recruiting' Minthara. Evil playthrough is the only way to get her so far and has the PC doing some rather heinous stuff, and of course if the player sides with the Druids and/or refugees, she *dies*

Honestly, if the player sides with the goblins as of right now, they'd first have to find a way to squeeze in a redemption arc for the Player character before Minthara, because preaching to Minthara about Eilistraee would ring mighty hollow when standing over the bodies of the Tieflings you slaughtered for her.


Yes it's true. I see an opportunity to make Minthara a cleric of Eilistraee when we saved her life by killing the goblin leaders and taking her prisoner; after, she will communicate with us, and sooner or later we will decide to free her and give her a second chance, after which the arc of redemption will begin

I just don’t see a redemption arc after massacring the Druid grove. If there’s a way to avoid it while still being evil, I see a possibility.

Once you wipe out an entire grove of innocent people, you are at the point of no return. At best, her redemption at that point is sacrificing herself to save future lives. There is no happy ending after the massacre.

Joined: Jan 2021
L
apprentice
Online Content
apprentice
L
Joined: Jan 2021
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
[quote=Leucrotta]
Yes it's true. I see an opportunity to make Minthara a cleric of Eilistraee when we saved her life by killing the goblin leaders and taking her prisoner; after, she will communicate with us, and sooner or later we will decide to free her and give her a second chance, after which the arc of redemption will begin. She will not change too much, but it will be an interesting option to go through a good walkthrough with Minthara, a more difficult way to gain her trust, respect, and possibly love.

Now I don't want to play the path of good at all, because there you need to kill Minthara

Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I just don’t see a redemption arc after massacring the Druid grove. If there’s a way to avoid it while still being evil, I see a possibility.

Once you wipe out an entire grove of innocent people, you are at the point of no return. At best, her redemption at that point is sacrificing herself to save future lives. There is no happy ending after the massacre.
It's a bit awkward for both evil and good players as I see it-particularly if they are drow. Playing through and getting to see that stuff from her romance about her trauma over what she did and went through in Menzoberranzean and her yearning for a genuine relationship where she doesn't have to worry about having to murder or be murdered by her partner, you might think she's was custom written as a romance option with Clerics of Eilistraee in mind, but the stuff you have to do to get to that point is pretty much the opposite of what her clergy would preach.

On the other hand, play through as a Cleric of Lolth and/or Lolthsworn Drow, and while the evil stuff you do for that branch might seem par for the course, you find yourself wondering why you are working for someone who's explicitly an apostate. And if you go through to the end, the 'traditional' drow relationship dynamic that Minthara 'flirts' with you with evaporates pretty much instantly.

Despite being the 'drow' romance option, it feels rather awkward to follow it with either 'Seldarine/Eilistraeen' or 'Lolthsworn' at present.

Joined: Jan 2021
T
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
T
Joined: Jan 2021
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Leucrotta
Vhaeraun could work. IDK about Eilistraee though unless they drastically change the criteria for 'recruiting' Minthara. Evil playthrough is the only way to get her so far and has the PC doing some rather heinous stuff, and of course if the player sides with the Druids and/or refugees, she *dies*

Honestly, if the player sides with the goblins as of right now, they'd first have to find a way to squeeze in a redemption arc for the Player character before Minthara, because preaching to Minthara about Eilistraee would ring mighty hollow when standing over the bodies of the Tieflings you slaughtered for her.


Yes it's true. I see an opportunity to make Minthara a cleric of Eilistraee when we saved her life by killing the goblin leaders and taking her prisoner; after, she will communicate with us, and sooner or later we will decide to free her and give her a second chance, after which the arc of redemption will begin

I just don’t see a redemption arc after massacring the Druid grove. If there’s a way to avoid it while still being evil, I see a possibility.

Once you wipe out an entire grove of innocent people, you are at the point of no return. At best, her redemption at that point is sacrificing herself to save future lives. There is no happy ending after the massacre.


Remember though, that both Viconia from BG2 and Nathyrra from Neverwinter, also did really bad things and in the end; Viconia could be still redeemed meanwhile Nathyrra was a good aligned person before the game even started. Aribeth from NWM, who wasn't a drow, but an elf/half-elf, also had a way to redeem herself after the attack on Neverwinter city.

Things work here differently than in real life. Trying to apply our IRL worldview and values there will lead us nowhere, because it's both fantasy world and it's also very heavily based on medieval times.
What Minthara does is no different than what Teutonic Knights were doing IRL for example (attacking pagans), in medieval times such things were seen as normal. Almost every year there was a war and basically until the XX th century armies lived mostly off the land. If all of your food is stolen, survival is not possible. Not to mention how many fights happened when people tried to defend their belongings. It's basicaly copy-pasted here and slightly changed to suit the needs of a fantasy world.

Also until PC approaches Minthara, she is very likely to be stuck in circle of doing evil things, simply because of her past/upbringing/her position. In her current situation, someone from outside has to basically "free her" out of this madness.
Based on her dialogue in the camp, she also doesn't seem like an inherently evil person. Many times through game it's hinted that she does, what she does; because she can't see other way as a realistic choice. That doesn't mean that Minthara did/does those things without feeling bad about it.
An example is given when we mind-read her; she is said to be full of guilt because she had to betray and was betrayed by lovers/family members/friends.

As for Nathyrra, she has for example killed countless innocents according to Neverwinter HOTU plot, yet if she survives the campaign, we're told in the ending that she saved countless lives during the rest of her life. I would say that she did redeem herself. Even just after meeting Seer, she acted really nicely and in a selfless way towards the others, rescuing the drow from the paws of Lolth worshippers.

Joined: Jan 2021
T
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
T
Joined: Jan 2021
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Leucrotta
Vhaeraun could work. IDK about Eilistraee though unless they drastically change the criteria for 'recruiting' Minthara. Evil playthrough is the only way to get her so far and has the PC doing some rather heinous stuff, and of course if the player sides with the Druids and/or refugees, she *dies*

Honestly, if the player sides with the goblins as of right now, they'd first have to find a way to squeeze in a redemption arc for the Player character before Minthara, because preaching to Minthara about Eilistraee would ring mighty hollow when standing over the bodies of the Tieflings you slaughtered for her.


Yes it's true. I see an opportunity to make Minthara a cleric of Eilistraee when we saved her life by killing the goblin leaders and taking her prisoner; after, she will communicate with us, and sooner or later we will decide to free her and give her a second chance, after which the arc of redemption will begin. She will not change too much, but it will be an interesting option to go through a good walkthrough with Minthara, a more difficult way to gain her trust, respect, and possibly love.

Now I don't want to play the path of good at all, because there you need to kill Minthara

Another possibility of her joining the party of PC for good/neutral aligned players could be just after the siege of the Grove.
Slightly off topic; but also we shouldn't be forced to kill Halsin in evil playthrough either. Both him and Minthara are at this moment the most 2 interesting NPCs, with a great potential for future questline.
I see them both kinda like Iorweth and Roche from the Witcher 2 and it's complete waste to kill such interesting characters so early.

Originally Posted by TheOnlyRealTav
Problem: Outcomes of the battle being different, instead of just killing all the enemies.
a) Minthara is knocked out, battle ends. Zevlor talks to us, what to do with new prisoner.
The options should include:
- Giving her to druids/tieflings
- Finishing her off
- Taking her as a prisoner
b) Minthara is dead, battle is over. Current version of cutscene is started.
c) Minthara is unable to fight, due to being too wounded and exhausted, but still conscious + fight is over. First, we can approach her, to ask a few questions and possibly foreshadow our intentions, then cutscene with Zevlor discussing with us about what to do with drow starts. Or we just finish her off.
d) Attackers flee, the Drow warlord is at full health. Tries to escape, ends up being captured. Altered cutscene with Zevlor plays.
e) The Cleric of Absolute is surrounded by the enemies and the rest of her soldiers flee. She tries to make the last stand. Player should be given the possiblity to persuade her to surrender, promising no harm etc. Otherwise she fights until the moment of not being able to fight anymore (1 hp). PC gets to decide to do with warlord afterwards.

Taken from:
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=748888&page=2

Last edited by TheOnlyRealTav; 01/02/21 09:06 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by TheOnlyRealTav
Problem: Outcomes of the battle being different, instead of just killing all the enemies.
a) Minthara is knocked out, battle ends. Zevlor talks to us, what to do with new prisoner.
The options should include:
- Giving her to druids/tieflings
- Finishing her off
- Taking her as a prisoner
b) Minthara is dead, battle is over. Current version of cutscene is started.
c) Minthara is unable to fight, due to being too wounded and exhausted, but still conscious + fight is over. First, we can approach her, to ask a few questions and possibly foreshadow our intentions, then cutscene with Zevlor discussing with us about what to do with drow starts. Or we just finish her off.
d) Attackers flee, the Drow warlord is at full health. Tries to escape, ends up being captured. Altered cutscene with Zevlor plays.
e) The Cleric of Absolute is surrounded by the enemies and the rest of her soldiers flee. She tries to make the last stand. Player should be given the possiblity to persuade her to surrender, promising no harm etc. Otherwise she fights until the moment of not being able to fight anymore (1 hp). PC gets to decide to do with warlord afterwards.

Taken from:
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=748888&page=2


This looks like a good plan, I really hope that Larian will pay attention and implement it in the game. This is a very important thing.

[Linked Image from pbs.twimg.com]

Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
I'm having a lot of trouble finishing her quest.

I've killed all the druids and tieflings, but Minthara keeps yelling at me to "hunt them down!" What do I do? frown

Last edited by Roethen; 06/02/21 08:25 AM.

Check out my thread on inventory, sizes, and proportions.
Joined: Nov 2020
?
stranger
Offline
stranger
?
Joined: Nov 2020
Did you kill Tieflings in the Zevlor's cave?

Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
Originally Posted by Ænyo
Did you kill Tieflings in the Zevlor's cave?

Yes. I think it may have been because I recruited Wyll that she was stuck, but when I finally took him and the rest of the tieflings down, Rath and Silver were standing idly in the inner grove and all of my goblin allies were stuck rolling for initiative. It's bugged beyond reason.


Check out my thread on inventory, sizes, and proportions.
Joined: Dec 2020
T
member
Offline
member
T
Joined: Dec 2020
I was on the Thiefling side and killed her...

I have nothing against her looks and she looks attractive enough for me to consider sex with her.

In addition I am so pissed of on some women now (I am man) that I feel like to be Evil in real life:


Well I have decided to go to gym tomorrow and train martial arts... I feel like I would like to use VIOLENCE in real life I am so pissed of one woman and no I will not tell what śhe did! Anyway that story would be anyway offtopic so let be.

In the past (it easier to get medals pre 18 age becaus if adults not allowed there are likely not black belts).... I was in Tae Kwon Do tournament with 16 participiants in my weight class as I was 17 years old (adults not allowed) and I got Silver medal!

In the gym sometimes when there is group training Bodycombat (that means you simple kick and hit in the air martial arts moves)...sometimes people have become afraid of my martial arts moves (despite me not hitting them but near them) (but you can also train contact on real boxing bag outside of that Bodycombat group training room.)... Tomorrow I need to get rid of this extra agression in the gym...

Finally on topic If I would have chosen the other side... not the Thieflings side as I did then of course I would like to have sex with Minthara.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 05/02/21 09:08 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
OP Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
I was on the Thiefling side and killed her...

I have nothing against her looks and she looks attractive enough for me to consider sex with her.

In addition I am so pissed of on some women now (I am man) that I feel like to be Evil in real life:


Well I have decided to go to gym tomorrow and train martial arts... I feel like I would like to use VIOLENCE in real life I am so pissed of one woman and no I will not tell what śhe did! Anyway that story would be anyway offtopic so let be.

In the past (it easier to get medals pre 18 age becaus if adults not allowed there are likely not black belts).... I was in Tae Kwon Do tournament with 16 participiants in my weight class as I was 17 years old (adults not allowed) and I got Silver medal!

In the gym sometimes when there is group training Bodycombat (that means you simple kick and hit in the air martial arts moves)...sometimes people have become afraid of my martial arts moves (despite me not hitting them but near them) (but you can also train contact on real boxing bag outside of that Bodycombat group training room.)... Tomorrow I need to get rid of this extra agression in the gym...

Finally on topic If I would have chosen the other side... not the Thieflings side as I did then of course I would like to have sex with Minthara.

I would ask you to refrain from such conversations in this topic, here we are talking only about Minthara and Baldurs Gate 3.

Real life violence is bad

Joined: Dec 2020
T
member
Offline
member
T
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by OneManArmy
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
I was on the Thiefling side and killed her...

I have nothing against her looks and she looks attractive enough for me to consider sex with her.

In addition I am so pissed of on some women now (I am man) that I feel like to be Evil in real life:


Well I have decided to go to gym tomorrow and train martial arts... I feel like I would like to use VIOLENCE in real life I am so pissed of one woman and no I will not tell what śhe did! Anyway that story would be anyway offtopic so let be.

In the past (it easier to get medals pre 18 age becaus if adults not allowed there are likely not black belts).... I was in Tae Kwon Do tournament with 16 participiants in my weight class as I was 17 years old (adults not allowed) and I got Silver medal!

In the gym sometimes when there is group training Bodycombat (that means you simple kick and hit in the air martial arts moves)...sometimes people have become afraid of my martial arts moves (despite me not hitting them but near them) (but you can also train contact on real boxing bag outside of that Bodycombat group training room.)... Tomorrow I need to get rid of this extra agression in the gym...

Finally on topic If I would have chosen the other side... not the Thieflings side as I did then of course I would like to have sex with Minthara.

I would ask you to refrain from such conversations in this topic, here we are talking only about Minthara and Baldurs Gate 3.

Real life violence is bad
My answer to that in the spoiler offtopic:

A. I do not have a criminal record.
B. Well not bad violence if defending from a bully in my opinion or attacked. In addition sports MMA fighting, martial arts I am for it. Bodycombat in the gym is sports.
C. Defending one self is ok in my book as long as it does not go over the top.
D. Avoiding real fights outside of sports is better then C option of course if you can settle it diplomatically the better.
E. If I go on vacation my plan is not to start a fight even though accidentally a drunk could bump into me. Well then my first reaction is not to start a fight even though it can be annoying.

I know the modern USA culture never fight instead lets sue which I find annoying many times the only ones winning on that if unclear who started it are the lawyerrs that get paid. Yet USA have their lame shit organization ANTIFA that does mayhem every ANTIFA member is a criminal.
F. If 2 people voluntary both fight each other then well...

I am not talking I support bully way oh there is that weak person lets...
Minthara is the ultimate evil basically you choose the Goblin side in BG3.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 06/02/21 07:30 AM.
Joined: Dec 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Dec 2020
Terminator: why are you posting your real life stuff in every thread? As was said, this is a thread about a fictional character in a video game, real life problems with women and your criminal record have nothing to do with it.

As for the topic: if they make Minthara an optional companion, I really hope, there will be another way to get her to join the party. Killing the tieflings, including children, is just too evil for me. Plus I 'm not prepared loosing Halsin as councilor and Wyll as a companion, I like them.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

Doctor Who
Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
Originally Posted by fylimar
Terminator: why are you posting your real life stuff in every thread? As was said, this is a thread about a fictional character in a video game, real life problems with women and your criminal record have nothing to do with it.

As for the topic: if they make Minthara an optional companion, I really hope, there will be another way to get her to join the party. Killing the tieflings, including children, is just too evil for me. Plus I 'm not prepared loosing Halsin as councilor and Wyll as a companion, I like them.
In the original BG games, if you had an evil party member it would decrease your reputation and good party members might end up attacking them (particularly paladins). They would often have quarrels with the group, not unlike those we see between Shadowheart (who wants to be good because she forgot who she is) and Lae'zel (who has been socialized into evil by her culture). It should be the way it is. If you want Minthara, you have to be evil. If you want Wyll and Halsin, you have to be good. You can't have two people whose interests and morals are diametrically opposed in the same party; it just doesn't make sense. Minthara is a cleric of the Absolute, and the majority of the party (except Astarion, but especially Lae'zel) hates the Mindflayers and the zealots they've created.

Last edited by Roethen; 06/02/21 08:20 AM.

Check out my thread on inventory, sizes, and proportions.
Joined: Dec 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by Roethen
Originally Posted by fylimar
Terminator: why are you posting your real life stuff in every thread? As was said, this is a thread about a fictional character in a video game, real life problems with women and your criminal record have nothing to do with it.

As for the topic: if they make Minthara an optional companion, I really hope, there will be another way to get her to join the party. Killing the tieflings, including children, is just too evil for me. Plus I 'm not prepared loosing Halsin as councilor and Wyll as a companion, I like them.
In the original BG games, if you had an evil party member it would decrease your reputation and good party members might end up attacking them (particularly paladins). They would often have quarrels with the group, not unlike those we see between Shadowheart (who wants to be good because she forgot who she is) and Lae'zel (who has been socialized into evil by her culture). It should be the way it is. If you want Minthara, you have to be evil. If you want Wyll and Halsin, you have to be good. You can't have two people whose interests and morals are diametrically opposed in the same party; it just doesn't make sense. Minthara is a cleric of the Absolute, and the majority of the party (except Astarion, but especially Lae'zel) hates the Mindflayers and the zealots they've created.

The only evil party member in BG 1 and 2 that decreases reputation, was Viconia, there was no change in reputation if Edwin, Shar-Teel, Eldoth or some of the other evil charcters joined.

I do agree, that Minthara should stay evil. You just don't bounce back from slaughtering a bunch of innocent families easily. I was just wondering, if there could for example be the possibility to take her prisoner in the finished game. Or give the player a better reason to go down the evil road than 'yay, sex with a drow', because right now, the evil road is not very alluring. You loose a decent trader in the grove (better than his goblin counterpart). You become part of a dangerous and frankly quite deranged group and you loose connections to that group too - I never played the evil road, but I watched a let's play and at some point Mintahra told the pc, that they aren't allowed in the goblin camp anymore, because the Absolute want them dead. Soooo - not much to look forward to.
I'm not loosing any sleep, if the evil route is the only way to get Minthara as a companion (if she will become a companion), then I'll just pass. I'm not that invested in that character.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

Doctor Who
Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Feb 2021
Location: Menzoberranzen
In BG 1 Dorn Il-Khan and Baeloth also decreased reputation score because of their races as half-orc and drow respectively.

I think players could go the Astarion route and embrace the infection. That way they look to Minthara for guidance with the Absolute, particularly if they want to role play a curious neutral evil or spiritually dejected character.

I had the thought of taking her prisoner before too. Her connection to the Absolute is interesting and would be a good source of intel.

Last edited by Roethen; 06/02/21 09:06 AM.

Check out my thread on inventory, sizes, and proportions.
Page 20 of 23 1 2 18 19 20 21 22 23

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5