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Originally Posted by Peranor
Originally Posted by TheFoxWhisperer
If something is a placeholder in EA though, that should at least he communicated with the people playtesting the game (As that is what EA is for really). If people keep giving feedback on a feature that is a placeholder anyway, that is kind of wasting those people's time for no reason.

If it is made known something is a placeholder, then feedback could be focussed on other things.


Exactly. I don't see the point in dropping a EA game on the players just to go more or less radio silent. If they want relevant feedback from the players they really need to learn to communicate more with the community.

I think this is a situation where Larian is trying to have their cake and eat it too.

They are basically an AAA company now, but are still trying to do the whole EA process which typically works far better for smaller indie-developers.

EA processes works better for smaller studio simply because of scale.
  • Your audience is smaller, so the amount of feedback to parse through is far smaller and easier to digest
  • Your audience is also focused and niched, so you are less likely to have feedback pulling the game in multiple directions (i.e. in BG3 - see the DOS vet vs. BG vets. vs 5E purist camps)
  • Smaller Studios benefit more from EA because they lack the resources to do market research - it's a cheap and easy way for them to get a better understand their market
  • Updates and feedback happen far faster in smaller studios because you don't have to go through the bureaucracy of dealing with 20 stakeholders for every change. Getting alignment with the guy that "sits next to you" is much easier than multi-interdepartmental conference calls with layers of internal approval each
  • And because it takes forever for the departments to agree on anything, the PR team also can't communicate anything because they can't pre-commit

All these factors effectively slow down the iteration process in the EA on every level. Every step in the "Update > Receive/Parse Feedback > Decide/Apply Feedback > New Update" cycle is slowed down when you operate like a proper AAA company with a large audience.

Last edited by Topgoon; 02/02/21 05:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by Peranor
Originally Posted by TheFoxWhisperer
If something is a placeholder in EA though, that should at least he communicated with the people playtesting the game (As that is what EA is for really). If people keep giving feedback on a feature that is a placeholder anyway, that is kind of wasting those people's time for no reason.

If it is made known something is a placeholder, then feedback could be focussed on other things.


Exactly. I don't see the point in dropping a EA game on the players just to go more or less radio silent. If they want relevant feedback from the players they really need to learn to communicate more with the community.


Yes! Great point! Larian **REALLY** need to start communicating with us far more often, in a simpler way. No need to make videos every two months, just have more Q&A meets, hang out in the forums and such!

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Thats literally all I want from them at this point. Just get some actual communication going.

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Just wanted to add my 2 cents that I agree.

Combat currently is an unplayable mess. It is mainly luck if you win, since everything has some kind of weird random chance attached to it. Ah... and the only "tactics" is to win the climbing race to "high ground". If this would be a parody on Star Wars Episode III, it would be fun, but unfortunately it is not.

That you own people are too dumb to step aside when a party member wants to pass them just adds to the disaster.

Honestly, they should add a difficulty level 0 where you have a button "win combat" that just kills all the enemies. Would be more fun most of the time.

I have no idea how they could think that this is fun.

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Originally Posted by Thomson
(...)

I have no idea how they could think that this is fun.
Because it is. Apparently you're doing something wrong. Yesterday I defeated the hag without taking a single hit with my bad armed team. (no cheesing, no barrels, no exploits). Combat is super satisfying.

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Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by Thomson
(...)

I have no idea how they could think that this is fun.
Because it is. Apparently you're doing something wrong. Yesterday I defeated the hag without taking a single hit with my bad armed team. (no cheesing, no barrels, no exploits). Combat is super satisfying.

That’s impressive. May I ask how you did this? What strategy and tactics you used?

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Magic missiles solve the problem of hag's illusions (and I have 2 casters, gale and astarion as arcane trickster), and astarion is fast enough to save Mayrina in first turn. Shadowheart was only casting Guiding Bolts, and my ranger (I took battle master's skill at 4th lvl) frightened Ethel, so the second turn was the last one for her.

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Originally Posted by pageu
Magic missiles solve the problem of hag's illusions (and I have 2 casters, gale and astarion as arcane trickster), and astarion is fast enough to save Mayrina in first turn. Shadowheart was only casting Guiding Bolts, and my ranger (I took battle master's skill at 4th lvl) frightened Ethel, so the second turn was the last one for her.

Nice.

Although I do think because BG3 is lacking the Shield spell, magic missiles are much more powerful than they should be all the time.

And fear shouldn’t provoke fleeing and cause an opportunity attack. In fact frightened creatures seem to not do anything other than run. Not that this is the reason you killed her but just something I noticed in gameplay.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by pageu
Magic missiles solve the problem of hag's illusions (and I have 2 casters, gale and astarion as arcane trickster), and astarion is fast enough to save Mayrina in first turn. Shadowheart was only casting Guiding Bolts, and my ranger (I took battle master's skill at 4th lvl) frightened Ethel, so the second turn was the last one for her.

Nice.

Although I do think because BG3 is lacking the Shield spell, magic missiles are much more powerful than they should be all the time.

And fear shouldn’t provoke fleeing and cause an opportunity attack. In fact frightened creatures seem to not do anything other than run. Not that this is the reason you killed her but just something I noticed in gameplay.
Magic Missile is amazing in the current meta. It's the go-to spell for so many reasons. Part of the reason I'm unhappy with the current combat meta is wizard doesn't feel like a wizard. It's a machine that only uses jump, magic missile, and shatter.

A lot of fights after the goblin camp have your party starting on lower ground than your enemies (the Duegar fight, the gnolls), the Githyanki patrol misty stepping to the high ground, Gale in darkness (why use a turn to light up the Underdark?), dancing lights can block projectiles, threatened providing disadvantage while Gale is being chased by minotaurs, etc.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
And fear shouldn’t provoke fleeing and cause an opportunity attack. In fact frightened creatures seem to not do anything other than run. Not that this is the reason you killed her but just something I noticed in gameplay.

That's correct - Right now, the implementation of fear on all tooltips is discordant with its actual effect, which is a glorified "skip turn", just as several other more nuanced status debuffs have become in the current game version.

If you're curious about what might be a bug and what's just the way it's been implemented, etc., as well as why various effects are occurring when they shouldn't, take a look at the focused thread on status conditions:

(It missed out on a sticky like the spells one, so I went and found it again ^.^)

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=739348#Post739348

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I'm really wondering how they will implement classes like the Monk, if they don't even have the Dodge action? Will they rework what Patient Defense does? I would really like them to implement more actions like Dodge and actually do abilities for the classes like they are in the PHB.

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I'd at least like dodge so that characters can do something for themselves if they're getting bullied too much. The AI can really focus one character right now, and while I can cheese the fight by helping them back up repeatedly it gets old. Slowly picking off enemy combatants with the other two takes a while.

It'd be much more enjoyable to let Gale try to dodge attacks. Mage armor and Mirror Image only work for so long against a pack of gnolls.

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Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
I'd at least like dodge so that characters can do something for themselves if they're getting bullied too much. The AI can really focus one character right now, and while I can cheese the fight by helping them back up repeatedly it gets old. Slowly picking off enemy combatants with the other two takes a while.

It'd be much more enjoyable to let Gale try to dodge attacks. Mage armor and Mirror Image only work for so long against a pack of gnolls.


Yes exactly! I have found myself wishing for that action quite many times now. Also Help (although they do have a form of that, by helping a downed enemy, though they gain 1 hp) and Ready.

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Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by Thomson
(...)

I have no idea how they could think that this is fun.
Because it is. Apparently you're doing something wrong. Yesterday I defeated the hag without taking a single hit with my bad armed team. (no cheesing, no barrels, no exploits). Combat is super satisfying.
It is really predictable that this "you're doing something wrong" answer always comes.

I would accept this if this was about my job, where I had to work and would get payed for what I am doing.

But a game? Sorry. I am playing games to relax and have fun.

And for an RPG, there should be more than one spell that works, and I should have a decent chance to win every battle with every party. Otherwise I am not interested.

And you mentioned Guiding Bolt. I am not aware that this spell can hit at all. Even when it says there is an 80% chance to hit. it basically misses all the time.

I just for fun startet to reload until it hits. And it takes three to four reloads until a spell with 80% to hit chance hits, and about 5 to 6 for one with a 50% hit chance. In my book that would be more like 30% or 20% hit chance. But hey, who cares about the numbers they show.

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Originally Posted by Thomson
Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by Thomson
(...)

I have no idea how they could think that this is fun.
Because it is. Apparently you're doing something wrong. Yesterday I defeated the hag without taking a single hit with my bad armed team. (no cheesing, no barrels, no exploits). Combat is super satisfying.
It is really predictable that this "you're doing something wrong" answer always comes.

I would accept this if this was about my job, where I had to work and would get payed for what I am doing.

But a game? Sorry. I am playing games to relax and have fun.

And for an RPG, there should be more than one spell that works, and I should have a decent chance to win every battle with every party. Otherwise I am not interested.

And you mentioned Guiding Bolt. I am not aware that this spell can hit at all. Even when it says there is an 80% chance to hit. it basically misses all the time.

I just for fun startet to reload until it hits. And it takes three to four reloads until a spell with 80% to hit chance hits, and about 5 to 6 for one with a 50% hit chance. In my book that would be more like 30% or 20% hit chance. But hey, who cares about the numbers they show.
It's OK, nobody denies there should be easy/story mode for people like you. If Larian fails to make combats enjoyable (though I have different gripes with the current state of the combat mechanics), I will play on that difficulty as well.

The percentages are definitely buggy, but that will definitely get fixed. I think in the case you mention the problem might be that you have a disadvantage, but the game does not show that (and take into account when computing percentages).

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Rapiers are not light weapons, they are finesse weapons. You can't duel wield with them in 5e without taking the Dual Wielder feat.

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Originally Posted by Lord Branches
Another thing, all classes can swap prepared spells at any time including combat. (hope this is a bug)

Not sure why OP skipped over this one for adding to the top post – this is huge and totally against the fundamentals of spellcasting in 5E

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Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Originally Posted by Lord Branches
Another thing, all classes can swap prepared spells at any time including combat. (hope this is a bug)

Not sure why OP skipped over this one for adding to the top post – this is huge and totally against the fundamentals of spellcasting in 5E

Absolutely

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You can cast a spell as a bonus action and another non-cantrip spell as an action in the same turn.

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Originally Posted by CaryMiller
I'm wondering if we should maybe make a complete list of differences in rules. Not because I think that there can't be any differences, but just for posterity.

So list differences you've found here, and I'll edit them into the top post. If there's something that people generally feel the Devs need to rethink I'll add notes.

I'll start:


01. Mage Hand requires Concentration(it does NOT in the PHB), but it can also now shove/interact with enemies (which it couldn't do in the P&P version). ~ (So buffed and balanced against said buff?)

02. Firebolt is now 1D6 + A chance to catch fire instead of 1D10 (Might be considered a slight Buff).

03. Ray Of Frost now creates an ice surface that can knock enemies prone (Buffed)

04. Acid Splash has been changed to an AOE attack that reduces AC by 2 (a considerable buff).

05. Wizard's can learn any spell (hopefully a bug)

06. Can get sneak attack with Great Sword (hopefully a bug)

07. Food heals health (hopefully a bug)

08. Scrolls can be used by anyone (hopefully a bug)

09. Grease is flammable (Have to test myself, Sage Advice, states it is not, might be an intentional buff / return to older rulings on Grease, also it might just make the spell that much more useful).

10. Automatic Passive Perception Checks are missing (this is something I think should be addressed sooner rather than later).

11. Darkness has an arbitrary block on firing ranged into and out of it.

12. Devil's Sight warlock invocation does nothing, since even with it, you are still blinded in Darkness.

13. Sleep spell has been changed to a fixed amount of hit points (16 + 8HP Per Level). in the PHB it says "This spell sends creatures into a magical slumber. Roll 5d8; the total is how many hit points of creatures this spell can affect.

14. Rogues do NOT get Expertise at level 1 (which is a bummer, I think that should be changed to be more like 5e P&P).

15. Rogue Cunning Action has been nerfed to only be used for DASH (which is also a bummer, and I also think that should be changed to be more like 5e P&P).

16. Spears should be VERSITILE Weapons (They are only Two-Handed in Open Access, and it really serves no purpose mechanically).

17. Dipping/coating your weapon takes a bonus action instead of an action. Also you can use fire to add 1d4 fire damage instead of poison. (Yes, Basic Poison is described in the PHB and explicitly says you can coat your weapon with it as an Action for additional 1d4 damage added to the attack.)


Also many actions missing like Dodge, Help, Ready, conventional Disengage...

Also many enemies have entirely different stats and abilities.

Height gives advantage, being further down gives disadvantage.

Sneak attack doesn't work at all like it does in PHB.

Shoving should allow to make enemies prone, but you can only knock them away.

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