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Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Originally Posted by Thomson
Originally Posted by Thomson
Well... being the little pathetic sarcastic corporation hating person that I am, I would gess they paid him to praise how well they ported the 5e system into the digital realm since they hope it gives them the public relations to continue their narcist abhorrent corruption of it.
Sometimes I hate being right.

And I must admit I was deviously satisfied when they lost after a long boring combat.


Honestly.... yeah. I wasn't at all pleased with Jeremy Crawford going all "lol do whatever, it's a different platform". I would so much prefer them to actually try and get the PHB rules right first and foremost. smirk
It would be actually hilarious if we could see him on a Solasta stream as well, praising how well they have faithfully implemented the DnD 5e ruleset into a videogame. laugh


Hahaha!! Yeah! laugh

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Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Originally Posted by Thomson
Originally Posted by Thomson
Well... being the little pathetic sarcastic corporation hating person that I am, I would gess they paid him to praise how well they ported the 5e system into the digital realm since they hope it gives them the public relations to continue their narcist abhorrent corruption of it.
Sometimes I hate being right.

And I must admit I was deviously satisfied when they lost after a long boring combat.


Honestly.... yeah. I wasn't at all pleased with Jeremy Crawford going all "lol do whatever, it's a different platform". I would so much prefer them to actually try and get the PHB rules right first and foremost. smirk

Was that what he said? Paraphrased obviously.

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Originally Posted by Scribe
Was that what he said? Paraphrased obviously.

It was something similar to that, it was brought up around the time that they were explaining Wild Shape being a bonus action compared to standard in tabletop. Which is something I guess is fine, as there are far bigger problems in the game's balance than a class feature being tweaked in order to make it seem less clunky, because one would realize that wild shape being a bonus action likely only exists because of these bigger problems in the first place - hence, creating new problems where there previously were none, and this tweak seems to indicate that they are doubling down on it. (And even if said problems didn't exist, Wild Shape being a bonus action is probably something I'd still agree with anyway, and I've never played a Druid in tabletop to begin with.)

But they said it and now it's going to get quoted out of context everywhere, and few are going to understand why they said it and why it *needed* to be said in the first place, the latter of which is perhaps even more important than the statement itself.

I'm just going to repost what I said in another thread...

Honestly, the stream didn't give me much faith in regards to the combat system. Larian doesn't seem to be interested in making any changes to rein in things like jump/disengage and high ground advantage/low ground disadvantage along with the lack of proactive defensive options like ready actions and dodge, judging from the idea that they just completely dodged literally any mention of these. This, despite the community giving them about 2 months worth of focused feedback since the last patch. They were more interested in showing off the flash rather than going into a deep dive on the mechanics and showing that they actually understood how everything they were creating worked and interacted with each other.

I mean, let's be real, adding in stuff like reactions and the dodge action wouldn't detract from the out of the box design at all, if anything it would give more variety and an extra layer of strategy to the combat. I legit don't understand why a portion of the community and even Larian themselves appear to be resistant to this topic. The game as it is now is too reactive, there's hardly any proactive planning besides pre-battle setup or coming up with a way to cheese the fight in the first 2 turns, because otherwise the absurd action economy that everyone has access to means your party is most likely to be completely overwhelmed in longer fights unless you're taking advantage of choke points or high ground or something.

Watching the hag fight go sideways in the stream was rather entertaining, and some would say it's rather endearing to see 'realistic' gameplay. At the same time, it also gives off the impression that they don't really know how to balance things, because their core design philosophy has always been about letting players experiment and figure it out for themselves, which may have lead to one of the lead directors themselves forgetting certain basic mechanics in their live demonstration mid-fight. But at some point, that endearment should turn into actual concern.

The sandbox 'cobble everything together enough to have a working combat system and then let players figure everything out for themselves, and hopefully enable out of the box strategies' philosophy has now only become a shield to deflect criticism, as one can see from a portion of the community just straight up refusing to care about our feedback and deflecting any and all criticism on this topic, without the introspection needed to see that the game CAN be better if the design were to be a bit more focused. As it is now, the combat just looks like a lot of disconnected ideas coming together to form quite a mess, hence one of my earlier comments basically considering the game's combat to be akin to a puzzle game that just happens to have RPG mechanics, rather than an actual strategic RPG in its current state.

I am generally a very optimistic person when it comes to a game that's still in active development, but at this point, I am beginning to wonder if expending any further effort to have conversations about this particular game's long term design is futile, and that we should withdraw from the community in acceptance that this is how the game is ultimately meant to be. Again, literally none of these concerns were even addressed at all, and even a simple answer telling us that our feedback on these particular mechanics isn't going to be considered because it's not part of their vision would be a better answer than the utter silence. I happen to be participating in Solasta and Pathfinder WotR's EA and betas too, and both seem to be leagues ahead in actually listening to player feedback and providing reasons why they designed things the way they did.

The mantra of 'show, don't tell' only works if what you have to show is meaningful and can be easily understood.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 17/02/21 09:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Originally Posted by Thomson
Originally Posted by Thomson
Well... being the little pathetic sarcastic corporation hating person that I am, I would gess they paid him to praise how well they ported the 5e system into the digital realm since they hope it gives them the public relations to continue their narcist abhorrent corruption of it.
Sometimes I hate being right.

And I must admit I was deviously satisfied when they lost after a long boring combat.


Honestly.... yeah. I wasn't at all pleased with Jeremy Crawford going all "lol do whatever, it's a different platform". I would so much prefer them to actually try and get the PHB rules right first and foremost. smirk

Was that what he said? Paraphrased obviously.

He said something like "This is fine, and don't forget that the rules should be adapted to the videogame" In short, they know that Larian changes everything as they want.


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
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That's a death knell then.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by Scribe
Was that what he said? Paraphrased obviously.

It was something similar to that, it was brought up around the time that they were explaining Wild Shape being a bonus action compared to standard in tabletop. Which is something I guess is fine, as there are far bigger problems in the game's balance than a class feature being tweaked in order to make it seem less clunky, because one would realize that wild shape being a bonus action likely only exists because of these bigger problems in the first place - hence, creating new problems where there previously were none, and this tweak seems to indicate that they are doubling down on it. (And even if said problems didn't exist, Wild Shape being a bonus action is probably something I'd still agree with anyway, and I've never played a Druid in tabletop to begin with.)

But they said it and now it's going to get quoted out of context everywhere, and few are going to understand why they said it and why it *needed* to be said in the first place, the latter of which is perhaps even more important than the statement itself.

I'm just going to repost what I said in another thread...

Honestly, the stream didn't give me much faith in regards to the combat system. Larian doesn't seem to be interested in making any changes to rein in things like jump/disengage and high ground advantage/low ground disadvantage along with the lack of proactive defensive options like ready actions and dodge, judging from the idea that they just completely dodged literally any mention of these. This, despite the community giving them about 2 months worth of focused feedback since the last patch. They were more interested in showing off the flash rather than going into a deep dive on the mechanics and showing that they actually understood how everything they were creating worked and interacted with each other.

I mean, let's be real, adding in stuff like reactions and the dodge action wouldn't detract from the out of the box design at all, if anything it would give more variety and an extra layer of strategy to the combat. I legit don't understand why a portion of the community and even Larian themselves appear to be resistant to this topic. The game as it is now is too reactive, there's hardly any proactive planning besides pre-battle setup or coming up with a way to cheese the fight in the first 2 turns, because otherwise the absurd action economy that everyone has access to means your party is most likely to be completely overwhelmed in longer fights unless you're taking advantage of choke points or high ground or something.

Watching the hag fight go sideways in the stream was rather entertaining, and some would say it's rather endearing to see 'realistic' gameplay. At the same time, it also gives off the impression that they don't really know how to balance things, because their core design philosophy has always been about letting players experiment and figure it out for themselves, which may have lead to one of the lead directors themselves forgetting certain basic mechanics in their live demonstration mid-fight. But at some point, that endearment should turn into actual concern.

The sandbox 'cobble everything together enough to have a working combat system and then let players figure everything out for themselves, and hopefully enable out of the box strategies' philosophy has now only become a shield to deflect criticism, as one can see from a portion of the community just straight up refusing to care about our feedback and deflecting any and all criticism on this topic, without the introspection needed to see that the game CAN be better if the design were to be a bit more focused. As it is now, the combat just looks like a lot of disconnected ideas coming together to form quite a mess, hence one of my earlier comments basically considering the game's combat to be akin to a puzzle game that just happens to have RPG mechanics, rather than an actual strategic RPG in its current state.

I am generally a very optimistic person when it comes to a game that's still in active development, but at this point, I am beginning to wonder if expending any further effort to have conversations about this particular game's long term design is futile, and that we should withdraw from the community in acceptance that this is how the game is ultimately meant to be. Again, literally none of these concerns were even addressed at all, and even a simple answer telling us that our feedback on these particular mechanics isn't going to be considered because it's not part of their vision would be a better answer than the utter silence. I happen to be participating in Solasta and Pathfinder WotR's EA and betas too, and both seem to be leagues ahead in actually listening to player feedback and providing reasons why they designed things the way they did.

The mantra of 'show, don't tell' only works if what you have to show is meaningful and can be easily understood.


I certainly agree, they should be WAY more communicative and they should certainly tell whether or not they are even listening or considering some of the things that people suggest here. I am still hoping that if we bombard them enough; they'll cave in and actually listen? smirk

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well it does seem like larian listened to ppl with feedback related to not succeeding/hitting enough or failing rolls too often at low lvls and implemented an optional (i believe) 'loaded dice' mechanic/campaign setting in response - altho it doesnt seem the loaded dice helped swen in his hag encounter lol. so hopefully the studios is paying attention to other feedback too and intends for further updates/changes down the pipeline, but we'll see

that being said, there were some updates that larian discussed that i did find interesting to hear - the lighting dynamic comes to mind (altho i know other games also have similar features). im not sure if the upcoming patch or the panel content will make me jump back into a new ea playthru, but will still keep following along for more news and the community's response when the patch officially drops

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Yeah they did take away the outrageous environmental effects from the cantrips... maybe they might listen to more things too?

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Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Yeah they did take away the outrageous environmental effects from the cantrips... maybe they might listen to more things too?
During the panel from hell 2, the strategies in combat were mostly without using higher ground or backstab.

I don't want to read into that too much. But I had vibes that Larian is very well aware how we feel about them and don't have a solution ready yet. It was smart to show strategies that have positive feedback on Reddit, like shove and using potions to solo a fight.

The solution to fix cantrips was more obvious. But for higher ground and backstab so much about combat is balanced around free advantage. (same for jump/disengage).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it would be easier for Larian to use a homebrewed proficiency table instead of giving advantage out for free. Then the game could feel like DnD with Larian's sandbox ideas.

I've been actually looking forward to playing a game like that, I just haven't seen signs of it during patch 3 and I'm not sure I'll see that in patch 4. (We'd at least still need proper reactions TBH).

It'd still be nice to see advantage given out during the game. But it should be something that feels earned. Like if a character gets a natural 20 and takes out the enemy, a nearby ally within 15 feet gets advantage on their next attack. That would be less than 5 percent of rolls the player or enemy could get advantage.

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Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
It was smart to show strategies that have positive feedback on Reddit, like shove and using potions to solo a fight.
there are some good points in the reddit posts and i agree that shoving and using potions should be included as part of gameplay, but i hope shoving everyone off ledges and using plentiful potions (after splitting your party in half) arent driving high level gameplay or encounter decisions, lol.

altho i did learn from the stream today that you can just chuck hp potions at your ally to heal them.

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Originally Posted by nation
Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
It was smart to show strategies that have positive feedback on Reddit, like shove and using potions to solo a fight.
there are some good points in the reddit posts and i agree that shoving and using potions should be included as part of gameplay, but i hope shoving everyone off ledges and using plentiful potions (after splitting your party in half) arent driving high level gameplay or encounter decisions, lol.

altho i did learn from the stream today that you can just chuck hp potions at your ally to heal them.

Just open your bags and pass them around during combat, no need to throw anything. This works with that side of roast dwarf you need Gale to eat, or potions.

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Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by nation
Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
It was smart to show strategies that have positive feedback on Reddit, like shove and using potions to solo a fight.
there are some good points in the reddit posts and i agree that shoving and using potions should be included as part of gameplay, but i hope shoving everyone off ledges and using plentiful potions (after splitting your party in half) arent driving high level gameplay or encounter decisions, lol.

altho i did learn from the stream today that you can just chuck hp potions at your ally to heal them.

Just open your bags and pass them around during combat, no need to throw anything. This works with that side of roast dwarf you need Gale to eat, or potions.

It’s to the point where you have to wonder why we even have different inventories. Just make one giant one for the entire group.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by nation
Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
It was smart to show strategies that have positive feedback on Reddit, like shove and using potions to solo a fight.
there are some good points in the reddit posts and i agree that shoving and using potions should be included as part of gameplay, but i hope shoving everyone off ledges and using plentiful potions (after splitting your party in half) arent driving high level gameplay or encounter decisions, lol.

altho i did learn from the stream today that you can just chuck hp potions at your ally to heal them.

Just open your bags and pass them around during combat, no need to throw anything. This works with that side of roast dwarf you need Gale to eat, or potions.

It’s to the point where you have to wonder why we even have different inventories. Just make one giant one for the entire group.

lol @Scribe xD

That's a real good point Sprectralhunter, it's been hinted at the the magic inventory is a bug from adapting the Divinity engine to DnD.

A single inventory with the parties combined carrying capacity might just be the solution. The equipment page could then be used to distribute items for combat.(essentially if the player wants to use an item in combat it has to be equipped).

So if the player wants to use a potion in combat it has to be in the characters equipment (imagine if the character had a bag section that could fit 5 items, scrolls, potions, what have you.)

This could also be used to prevent eating food in combat, by having a rule to prevent the player from putting food in the combat pouch. (Just like how you can't have a sword for a helmet).

It'd totally be a workaround, one that would put the game in a healthier state.

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Originally Posted by DragonSnooz
lol @Scribe xD

That's a real good point Sprectralhunter, it's been hinted at the the magic inventory is a bug from adapting the Divinity engine to DnD.

A single inventory with the parties combined carrying capacity might just be the solution. The equipment page could then be used to distribute items for combat.(essentially if the player wants to use an item in combat it has to be equipped).

So if the player wants to use a potion in combat it has to be in the characters equipment (imagine if the character had a bag section that could fit 5 items, scrolls, potions, what have you.)

This could also be used to prevent eating food in combat, by having a rule to prevent the player from putting food in the combat pouch. (Just like how you can't have a sword for a helmet).

It'd totally be a workaround, one that would put the game in a healthier state.

This looks great, but definitely not enough "Larian".

Cow can climb ladders to avoid 3 clicks... They won't introduce consummables slots.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Cow can climb ladders to avoid 3 clicks... They won't introduce consummables slots.

Cows can climb ladders, and even have animations for doing so, while halflings still have completely broken and ridiculous animations for climbing. *rolls her eyes* Their priorities are an enigma...

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Cow can climb ladders to avoid 3 clicks... They won't introduce consummables slots.

Cows can climb ladders, and even have animations for doing so, while halflings still have completely broken and ridiculous animations for climbing. *rolls her eyes* Their priorities are an enigma...

I don't think it's an enigma.

They are focusing on making the game into a meme.

It's all about flashy, comical, over the top. Attack and end the turn? Heck no, we gotta spin this gnome off windmill launch pad.

The core game is an afterthought, it's about trying to get something viral.

LOOK WE HAVE A COW.

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Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Cow can climb ladders to avoid 3 clicks... They won't introduce consummables slots.

Cows can climb ladders, and even have animations for doing so, while halflings still have completely broken and ridiculous animations for climbing. *rolls her eyes* Their priorities are an enigma...

I don't think it's an enigma.

They are focusing on making the game into a meme.

It's all about flashy, comical, over the top. Attack and end the turn? Heck no, we gotta spin this gnome off windmill launch pad.

The core game is an afterthought, it's about trying to get something viral.

LOOK WE HAVE A COW.

I do think you are right, this is not a game they are making but something for twitch presenters to stream or for youtube clips.

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I SINCERELY hope that they will change stuff around if they eventually understand that people WANT that, and that it would be good for balance reasons. If everyone is special, noone is.

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Hello everyone,

BG1 and 2 have achieved the feat of being a very faithful transposition of AD&D into video games.

I just have one question for those who have played Early Access before:
By playing BG3, will I feel like I'm really participating in a D&D5 campaign, with the same rules and the same possibilities?

Thank you in advance for your answers

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Originally Posted by Melkyor95
Hello everyone,

BG1 and 2 have achieved the feat of being a very faithful transposition of AD&D into video games.

I just have one question for those who have played Early Access before:
By playing BG3, will I feel like I'm really participating in a D&D5 campaign, with the same rules and the same possibilities?

Thank you in advance for your answers
You will get something which is as close to 5e as vinegar is close to wine.

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