Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
There is a really large thread about this topic. Where people broke down the % chance to hit and all that. I'll link it after work (on break now), if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Joined: Nov 2020
O
OcO Offline
member
Offline
member
O
Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by Darun
Seriously, would you bother with high ground if the only effect were +2 AC?

I'm in the group that feel height should only apply extra range to physical attacks(arrows/bolts), though honestly I'd be perfectly fine with no mechanical advantages automatically applied for occupying higher ground. It has inherent advantages already.

High ground generally means a ladder or stairway type limited access...that is a choke point that can be used to block melee attackers and keep them off your ranged.

High ground allows the use of the much argued bonus action Shove ability.

A ranged toon on high ground can back up a few steps and break LoS for ranged toons trying to hit them from below. You don't need cover rules if you start your turn outta sight, step forward and cast/shoot, step back outta sight again.

Removing advantage/disadvantage from height would in no way make higher ground useless, it just wouldn't be "I Win".

Joined: Oct 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
Height advantage is here to stay end of story! Live with it or get a new game just a friendly tip. It's not going anywhere, verticality is one of the main features of BG 3 so good luck changing that.

Height advantage was always huge in combat when you have range elements involved so nothing wrong with it. They just need to make AI better at using it. And maybe make GO Prone - crouch an option for all characters... if anything we are missing overwatch (bows and spells) and after all those we can finally call it tactical combat...

Last edited by Lastman; 22/02/21 07:51 PM.
Joined: Jan 2021
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Jan 2021
Going prone makes sense if standing on higher ground didn't already provide disadvantage on incoming attacks.

If Larian removed the disadvantage benefit of standing on hill and added dropping prone (1 action), that would be an improvement to the meta-game.

Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by Lastman
Height advantage is here to stay end of story! Live with it or get a new game just a friendly tip. It's not going anywhere, verticality is one of the main features of BG 3 so good luck changing that.

Height advantage was always huge in combat when you have range elements involved so nothing wrong with it. They just need to make AI better at using it. And maybe make GO Prone - crouch an option for all characters... if anything we are missing overwatch (bows and spells) and after all those we can finally call it tactical combat...

You should probably try to understand what "advantage" means in D&D5 wink
No one said highground and verticality shouldn't give any kind of bonus(es)

And just in case you know what it mean... While asking for "tactical combats", what do you think of the dozens of tactical possibilities in D&D that gives you an advantage but are now useless because of highground ? (and backstab)

I'd really love to have an answer to this serious question. I read so many threads here but I think I never saw any answer to this.

I'd really like to understand how someone could ask for more tactical combats while thinking that 2 OP tactics instead of +50 is great at the same time...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 22/02/21 08:13 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
M
member
Offline
member
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Lastman
Height advantage is here to stay end of story!
lol

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by Lastman
Height advantage is here to stay end of story!
lol

Don't know what's funny here, its very possible. Along with bonuses being applied to the DC instead of adding to the dice roll, homebrew action changes, disengage/jump, and everything else. They can't cater to everyone and as Scribe said in another thread they could reply on mods to fill what people want.

This could give them the means to butcher every d&d aspect of the game, we haven't seen the other classes and what they plan on changing on those as well.

Last edited by fallenj; 22/02/21 08:17 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
M
member
Offline
member
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by fallenj
Don't know what's funny here
Nothing. All is well. grin

Joined: Jan 2021
D
Darun Offline OP
stranger
OP Offline
stranger
D
Joined: Jan 2021
Lastman is right. It is pretty clear that high ground giving a significant benefit is part of Larians vision of how the game is supposed to work.

I, personally, would not bother much with high ground for anything less than +2 / -2 and I think the same is true for many other players.

Developers usually want to incentivize playing the game as "it is meant to be played", so even if they should change the mechanic, a significant high ground benefit will most certainly stay.

On a side note: Yeah, turn ending attacks and overwatch for an actual tactical game would be awesome laugh

Joined: Oct 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Lastman
Height advantage is here to stay end of story! Live with it or get a new game just a friendly tip. It's not going anywhere, verticality is one of the main features of BG 3 so good luck changing that.

Height advantage was always huge in combat when you have range elements involved so nothing wrong with it. They just need to make AI better at using it. And maybe make GO Prone - crouch an option for all characters... if anything we are missing overwatch (bows and spells) and after all those we can finally call it tactical combat...

You should probably try to understand what "advantage" means in D&D5 wink
No one said highground and verticality shouldn't give any kind of bonus(es)

And just in case you know what it mean... While asking for "tactical combats", what do you think of the dozens of tactical possibilities in D&D that gives you an advantage but are now useless because of highground ? (and backstab)

I'd really love to have an answer to this serious question. I read so many threads here but I think I never saw any answer to this.

I'd really like to understand how someone could ask for more tactical combats while thinking that 2 OP tactics instead of +50 is great at the same time...

You're just trying to copy paste Pnp 5e to video game if you want that you can always get Solasta and look at all those pop ups...

Why no one ever brings up the lack of cover system? We lost shit loads of AC to that.. That would help balance DC save spells vs range attacks.

Anyway, i don't care what it means in Dnd 5e i care what it is in game. If we go by your standards everything is useless. After all you can just throw barrels around anyway and cast scrolls why even bother with spells slots and classes?

Like i said go prone is the counter to height advantage in this game why they don't let us go prone i do not know...

Last edited by Lastman; 22/02/21 08:43 PM.
Joined: Jan 2021
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Jan 2021
Originally Posted by Lastman
After all you can just throw barrels around anyway and cast scrolls why even bother with spells slots and classes?.

Exactly true with the current flawed implementation we have here.

Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by Lastman
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Lastman
Height advantage is here to stay end of story! Live with it or get a new game just a friendly tip. It's not going anywhere, verticality is one of the main features of BG 3 so good luck changing that.

Height advantage was always huge in combat when you have range elements involved so nothing wrong with it. They just need to make AI better at using it. And maybe make GO Prone - crouch an option for all characters... if anything we are missing overwatch (bows and spells) and after all those we can finally call it tactical combat...

You should probably try to understand what "advantage" means in D&D5 wink
No one said highground and verticality shouldn't give any kind of bonus(es)

And just in case you know what it mean... While asking for "tactical combats", what do you think of the dozens of tactical possibilities in D&D that gives you an advantage but are now useless because of highground ? (and backstab)

I'd really love to have an answer to this serious question. I read so many threads here but I think I never saw any answer to this.

I'd really like to understand how someone could ask for more tactical combats while thinking that 2 OP tactics instead of +50 is great at the same time...

You're just trying to copy paste Pnp 5e to video game if you want that you can always get Solasta and look at all those pop ups...

Why no one ever brings up the lack of cover system? We lost shit loads of AC to that.. That would help balance DC save spells vs range attacks.

Anyway, i don't care what it means in Dnd 5e i care what it is in game. If we go by your standards everything is useless. After all you can just throw barrels around anyway and cast scrolls why even bother with spells slots and classes?

Like i said go prone is the counter to height advantage in this game why they don't let us go prone i do not know...

Ok so you also choose to avoid the question...

There are 50+ possibilities to have an advantage/give a disadvantage in D&D (and many are implemented in BG3). There are only 2 usefull possibilities in BG3.

I don't care about D&D but 50 is deeper and more "tactical" than 2. As you, I want great tactical combats in BG3.

I guess I'll never have any answer.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 22/02/21 08:50 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I guess I'll never have any answer.
Your so called question is just a feeling you have, opinion... Ever asked yourself that maybe it's not true and if you never played DnD 5e maybe you wouldn't feel this way.. What exactly is this thing that is now useless do to Height advantage or backstab in your opinion - feeling? One example will do...

Last edited by Lastman; 22/02/21 09:02 PM.
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by Lastman
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I guess I'll never have any answer.
Your so called question is just a feeling you have, opinion... Ever asked yourself that maybe it's not true and if you never played DnD 5e maybe you wouldn't feel this way.. What exactly is this thing that is now useless do to Height advantage or backstab in your opinion - feeling? One example will do...

I never played any TT wink
This is a part of what grants advantage or gives disadvantages in D&D.

You may still use some of them in the game, but for specific purpose (i.e you may fear an ennemy or use sleep, but this wouldn't be related to advantage).

General Actions:
1. Dodge/Help
2. Dropping Prone against Ranged Attacks

Spells:
3. True Strike
4. Vicious Mockery
5. Cause Fear
6. Command (certain instructions)
7. Compelled Duel
8. Ensnaring Strike
9. Entangle
10. Faerie Fire
11. Find Familiar (Help Action)
12. Fog Cloud (Depending on types of sight)
13. Grease
14. Guiding Bolt
15. Protection from Evil/Good (Against certain enemy types)
16. Sleep
17. Snare
18. Tasha's Hideous Laughter
19. Zephyr Strike
20. Blindness/Deafness
21. Blur
22. Darkness (Depending on types of sight)
23. Heat Metal
24. Hold Person
25. Invisibility
26. Maximilian's Earthen Grasp
27. Shadow Blade (Depending on lighting)
28. Web

Class Features:

29. Barbarian - Reckless Attack
30. Barbarian - Wolf Totem
31. Barbarian - Ancestral Protectors
32. Bard - Words of Terror
33. Cleric - Warding Flare
34. Cleric - Invoke Duplicity
35. Druid - Multiple Wildshape forms that grants Pack Tactics (Wolf, etc)
36. Fighter - Distracting Strike
37. Fighter - Feinting Attack
38. Fighter - Goading Attack
39. Fighter - Menacing Attack
40. Fighter - Trip Attack
41. Fighter - Fighting Spirit
42. Monk - Patient Defense
43. Monk - Open Hand Technique (knocked Prone)
44. Paladin - Conquering Presence
45. Paladin - Nature's Wrath
46. Paladin - Abjure Enemy
47. Paladin - Vow of Emnity
48. Paladin - Dreadful Aspect
49. Ranger - Umbral Sight
50. Rogue - Assassinate
51. Rogue - Master of Tactics
52. Rogue - Cunning Action (Stealth)
53. Sorcerer - Eyes of the Dark
54. Sorcerer - Tides of Chaos
55. Warlock - Hexblade's Curse
56. Warlock - Pact of the Chain (Help from Familiar)

Don't you read the threads you're answering to ?

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=719930&page=1

Last edited by Maximuuus; 22/02/21 09:35 PM.
Joined: Jan 2021
S
addict
Offline
addict
S
Joined: Jan 2021
Originally Posted by Lastman
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I guess I'll never have any answer.
Your so called question is just a feeling you have, opinion... Ever asked yourself that maybe it's not true and if you never played DnD 5e maybe you wouldn't feel this way.. What exactly is this thing that is now useless do to Height advantage or backstab in your opinion - feeling? One example will do...

When one of if not THE most powerful mechanic in the game, upon which Class balance, Class Features, and spells up to the max level are based, can be abused at level 1, by jumping around the map like an idiot?

Yes, that's a problem.

Joined: Oct 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
˄ i asked you to give me one example that is now useless in game due to Height advantage or backstab and you post me all the things that give advantage in DnD pnp... i'm glad we are on the same page...

Joined: Oct 2020
M
member
Offline
member
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Lastman
˄ i asked you to give me one example that is now useless in game due to Height advantage or backstab and you post me all the things that give advantage in DnD pnp... i'm glad we are on the same page...
You do realize that all those abilities that come at a cost, sometimes even another penalty on yourself, in a resource based system are rendered useless when you can get the same thing - advantage (roll two 20-sided dice and take the higher value) - at the cost of zero resources? Do you?

Joined: Oct 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by Lastman
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I guess I'll never have any answer.
Your so called question is just a feeling you have, opinion... Ever asked yourself that maybe it's not true and if you never played DnD 5e maybe you wouldn't feel this way.. What exactly is this thing that is now useless do to Height advantage or backstab in your opinion - feeling? One example will do...

When one of if not THE most powerful mechanic in the game, upon which Class balance, Class Features, and spells up to the max level are based, can be abused at level 1, by jumping around the map like an idiot?

Yes, that's a problem.
How is using 3D environment at level 1 abusing it. i mean you can do the same thing without jumping btw. So stop bringing jump in to it. That's a different kind of problem all together and warrants it's own thread.

Joined: Oct 2020
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by Lastman
˄ i asked you to give me one example that is now useless in game due to Height advantage or backstab and you post me all the things that give advantage in DnD pnp... i'm glad we are on the same page...
You do realize that all those abilities that come at a cost, sometimes even another penalty on yourself, in a resource based system are rendered useless when you can get the same thing - advantage (roll two 20-sided dice and take the higher value) - at the cost of zero resources? Do you?
where in your mind is using movement not a resources?

Joined: Oct 2020
M
member
Offline
member
M
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Lastman
Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by Lastman
˄ i asked you to give me one example that is now useless in game due to Height advantage or backstab and you post me all the things that give advantage in DnD pnp... i'm glad we are on the same page...
You do realize that all those abilities that come at a cost, sometimes even another penalty on yourself, in a resource based system are rendered useless when you can get the same thing - advantage (roll two 20-sided dice and take the higher value) - at the cost of zero resources? Do you?
where in your mind is using movement not a resources?
You do realize you need to move in order to be in range to use those other abilities as well, do you?

Page 3 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5