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Basically the base game systems are DONE. Just minor patches.
Surfaces are there to stay, height advantage, food heals during combat, wizards can still learn Cleric spells, barely no new changes to the UI, etc, etc...
Larian now concentrates on adding content and fixing bugs basically. And bring livestock to their offices.

I'm done with DOS3 and more than happy with playing Baldurs gate 2 again. The king lives on.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 26/02/21 10:33 AM.
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Most surfaces are gone tho, the existing ones are acceptable.

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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Basically the base game systems are DONE. Just minor patches.
Surfaces are there to stay

The most glaringly overpowered cantrip surfaces are gone. The other larger AoE surfaces have internal logic/are immersive. Not sure how balanced they are though, but any imbalances can be fixed. These are "Larianisms" that are POSITIVE changes as they add interesting tactical options and complexity.

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height advantage

Incentivizing tactical positioning is another POSITIVE "Larianism". That said, both height and flanking is clearly over-incentivized and this creates an avalanche of balancing issues. Flanking is a much worse issue from a mechanical standpoint however. The way enemies are unresponsive to flanking, makes it a guarantee. You just need perform the same boring "ritual" over and over again. It makes for bad gameplay that also exposes the turn-based combat (that I like) as a really shitty approximation of combat. Instead, an opponent could be made to pivot to face a single threat, requiring either surprise or two foes threatening in order to gain flank bonus.

Furthermore, flanking is imbalancing in an additional way height bonus is not; in that the enemy AI consistently fails to exploit flanking (while being really good at getting height advantage). Height advantage should be down-tuned significantly while flanking should be down-tuned and a less primitive mechanism implemented.

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food heals during combat

Unimmersive implementation that brings needless complexity to an already overcrowded aspect. There are enough healing options in the game in addition to near unlimited resting. Furthermore, it kind of makes the Goodberry spell superfluous. A slow passive regeneration perhaps as part of a Tadpole power would be more immersive, require no micromanagement and not conflict with other healing options.

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Wizards can still learn Cleric spells

This is OVERPOWERED and UNBALANCING in the extreme. It's a GIANT screw you to not only Clerics, but to Bards as well. One of the strongest Bard abilities is Magical Secrets obtainable level 10, 14 and 18 (6 lore) which allows them to learn a couple of spells from another class. This is an unlimited variant of that given a class that is arguably the strongest already - with unlimited resting, besides being given lots of magical item love. This is Swen's love child, and it shows.

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barely no new changes to the UI

Targeting enemies or friendlies through portraits. Dedicated torch button. Flee button. General UI improvements, character tooltips, main- & profile menu, surface & cloud tooltips, death saving throws, container UI, and notifications. Options interface changes. Multiplayer UI changes. Multiplayer changes enabling you to see equipment, spells, inventory, and character sheets of other players.

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etc, etc...

I would refer you to the latest patch notes which is considerably lengthy. Then again, you've clearly made up your mind long ago.

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I'm done with DOS3 and more than happy with playing Baldurs gate 2 again. The king lives on.

BG3 is not going to be a D&D simulator, and that is a good thing in my mind. However, clearly Larian has been erring on the side of radical change so far, defaulting to their cheese over more immersive D&D alternatives. Larian has been somewhat responsive though, so I wouldn't rule out positive changes, even significant ones down the line.

Good luck replaying your perfect game over and over again. smile

Last edited by Seraphael; 26/02/21 06:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
wizards can still learn Cleric spells

This part at least, has to be a bug...

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Originally Posted by Seraphael
However, clearly Larian has been erring on the side of radical change so far, defaulting to their cheese over more immersive D&D alternatives. Larian has been somewhat responsive though, so I wouldn't rule out positive changes, even significant ones down the line.

I hope you are right but it's getting harder for me to believe that this is true. This patch turned up the surfaces and the cheese from a 6 to an 8 and it looks like we're headed towards eleven.

There are some good things in this patch -- some improvements to dialogues and the game has many more books -- but it's cheesier than before.

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Originally Posted by Seraphael
However, clearly Larian has been erring on the side of radical change so far, defaulting to their cheese over more immersive D&D alternatives. Larian has been somewhat responsive though, so I wouldn't rule out positive changes, even significant ones down the line.

I hope you are right but it's getting harder for me to believe that this is true. This patch turned up the surfaces and the cheese from a 6 to an 8 and it looks like we're headed towards eleven.

There are some good things in this patch -- some improvements to dialogues and the game has many more books -- but it's cheesier than before.

Consider stuff like height/flanking advantage for instance. I see this issue in connection with the larger issue of RNG in D&D. Some people object to a perceived lack of player agency/find that failures/misses are near untolerable. And an excess of this incentivizes save-scumming - which is objectively poor gameplay. Larian has addressed this issue in numerous ways. But they have yet to implement a DIFFICULTY SETTING, ie. one giving bonus to your rolls, even malus to enemy rolls. This in turn would lessen the need for a significant (advantage) bonus to tactical positioning (height/flank), which is objectively unbalancing on multiple fronts (ie. screwing over the Barbarian and their staple Reckless Attack ability).

On top of that abilities that can affect RNG, ie. the feat Lucky, are yet to be implemented.

That said, I try not to expect too much...only way not to be disappointed.

Last edited by Seraphael; 26/02/21 06:37 PM.
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Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
wizards can still learn Cleric spells

This part at least, has to be a bug...

So, I have had some communication regarding this when I had a related bug report dialogue. Apparently Wizards learning everything, and everybody being able to cast everything from al scrolls is working as intended and deliberate at this stage, but is a thing that they are aware of as a contention, and May be something that they change to bring back into line with 5e.

However, that communication was before the most recent patch, by a fair time frame, and this patch did nothing to change it, so that communication may well now be out of date.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
wizards can still learn Cleric spells

This part at least, has to be a bug...

So, I have had some communication regarding this when I had a related bug report dialogue. Apparently Wizards learning everything, and everybody being able to cast everything from al scrolls is working as intended and deliberate at this stage, but is a thing that they are aware of as a contention, and May be something that they change to bring back into line with 5e.

However, that communication was before the most recent patch, by a fair time frame, and this patch did nothing to change it, so that communication may well now be out of date.

You have that link handy for formal bug reports?

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Scribe
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
wizards can still learn Cleric spells

This part at least, has to be a bug...

So, I have had some communication regarding this when I had a related bug report dialogue. Apparently Wizards learning everything, and everybody being able to cast everything from al scrolls is working as intended and deliberate at this stage, but is a thing that they are aware of as a contention, and May be something that they change to bring back into line with 5e.

However, that communication was before the most recent patch, by a fair time frame, and this patch did nothing to change it, so that communication may well now be out of date.

That's sort of disheartening. This is one decision I truly cannot comprehend, in any way, shape or form.

I desperately want to have another play through but can't face fighting the party control mechanics, combat and how the classes don't really feel as distinct as they should.

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Sure thing Scribe,

https://larian.com/support/baldur-s-gate-3#modal

That one will pop the reporting form that you can make formal bug reports from, as opposed to their general feedback forms, which aren't bug reports.

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Thanks, my ticket was already processed (I found the link in the Hotfix 7 thread) and the Wizards learning Cleric spells is known, and should be getting fixed! laugh

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Originally Posted by Scribe
Thanks, my ticket was already processed (I found the link in the Hotfix 7 thread) and the Wizards learning Cleric spells is known, and should be getting fixed! laugh
I knew that had to be a bug!

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My understanding is that these forums are provided as a courtesy for players to discuss Larian games ( and other things ), not as a means of communicating directly with the developers.

As far as I am aware, no-one in Larian is employed to act as a community interface; although there are announcement threads and moderators, that is not the same as offering a dialog.

I'm certain that the general sentiment from here, steam, reddit etc are monitored, and considered, but that does not mean that action will follow, either "immediately" or "eventually". I doubt that more than 1 in 1000 players actually post to forums, and those that do usually tend towards the fringes of opinion, so moving the game towards one opinion would outrage another.

My own fringe opinion is to prefer a wide array of alternative situation resolutions to engaging in combat, but I would not expect Larian to pay much heed to that, as most players seem to like killing things. I also find "boss fights" to be particularly trite and formulaic, but they must be popular as most games use them.

It is absolutely worth expressing what you like or dislike about this game ( or any other ), and why, since that is the only way developers can understand their audience. But, if your views are not universally shared, the best you can expect is that the developers will give you options and/or some flexibility in the final game ( i.e. at some time over the next 1-2 years ) rather than expecting an immediate reaction.

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Originally Posted by etonbears
I'm certain that the general sentiment from here, steam, reddit etc are monitored, and considered, but that does not mean that action will follow,

Which is why communication is so important. Part of the idea of Early Access is more communication with the developer. This includes both maybes, we don't want to say yets, yesses, and nos. Not getting any response at all, however, is falling short of the expectations.


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Ah, I love how social platforms expose the need for attention of people. I hope Larian software programmers give us the earliest the possible the full game, who cares if people in this forum (a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of actual players) feel like they don't have the attention they think to deserve.

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Well yeah. We are on this forum because unlike the others, we do care.


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People are on this forum because they want to communicate with Larian about the game, we want BG3 to become a great game and are trying to be involved in the process and discussion of how DnD5e should be translated to a videogame.

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Strange, all those people accusing others of 'attention seeking' who add nothing of importance to the conversation other than simply seeking attention themselves.

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Originally Posted by marajango
Strange, all those people accusing others of 'attention seeking' who add nothing of importance to the conversation other than simply seeking attention themselves.

Yeah.

Just as someone interested in forum interactions themselves, I'm finding the rise of "be positive you fucks!" type posts lately. I'm struggling to understand why they are increasing and the motivation behind them.

Originally Posted by Dexai
Which is why communication is so important. Part of the idea of Early Access is more communication with the developer. This includes both maybes, we don't want to say yets, yesses, and nos. Not getting any response at all, however, is falling short of the expectations.

Agreed. Specifically, I would like to have some response to the issues raised in megathreads. Also some response to the excellent essays written by the people named in the original post.

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Originally Posted by Dexai
Originally Posted by etonbears
I'm certain that the general sentiment from here, steam, reddit etc are monitored, and considered, but that does not mean that action will follow,

Which is why communication is so important. Part of the idea of Early Access is more communication with the developer. This includes both maybes, we don't want to say yets, yesses, and nos. Not getting any response at all, however, is falling short of the expectations.

Larian are communicating, you are just not listening, because they are not saying what you want them to.

These forums alone have ~100,000 posts, so Larian are hardly going to be able to address forum posters directly, even assuming they wanted to. The largest topic ( support for RTwP ) is only about 2% of posts, so no single topic has enough interest to claim it is a majority concern.

Each time they put out an update, Larian produce a description, a video, or a livestream ( with optional cows ) that tells you what they are thinking, and what they have been working on. If those communications don't give any definite information - "yes" or "no" - concerning an issue important to you, then that issue falls under "we don't want to say yet".

Originally Posted by Dexai
Well yeah. We are on this forum because unlike the others, we do care.

Really? You think that the <1% of EA players that post their opinions to various forums "care", but the >99% of players that shelled out the same full price for an EA game "don't care"? Perhaps the majority simply took Larian at their word and are giving their feedback through playing the game? Maybe some people that bought the game actually like it?

Originally Posted by CJMPinger
People are on this forum because they want to communicate with Larian about the game, we want BG3 to become a great game and are trying to be involved in the process and discussion of how DnD5e should be translated to a videogame.

Well, Larian did ask for our opinions, so you can surely give them your opinion, including how you think 5e should be implemented. Although, as the 5e rules are not actually very complicated, I'm not sure that Larian have any difficulty understanding them.

Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
Just as someone interested in forum interactions themselves, I'm finding the rise of "be positive you fucks!" type posts lately. I'm struggling to understand why they are increasing and the motivation behind them.

Perhaps in reaction to the significant number of "I've told them what they're doing wrong and they aren't listening" posts? Some ideas seem to be discussed in a neutral manner, but others seem to devolve into self-interest groups trying to shout louder than the others.

At least most people remain polite, most of the time.

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