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Originally Posted by dotmats
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There will be MORE Companions Dotmats

As far as we know, just 3 more.

edit: for comparison, BG1 has over 20.


Source?

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Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
BG1/2 companions were better on many points.
The only thing they didn't have was a side quest divided in chapters/act and the "origin/,playable as main characters thing" (which is only appealing in MP).

Quantity is objective. Quality is not at all.

It's only your opinion, not a fact.

The fact is, that BG1 companions were in most cases only a portraits with attached set of sounds. Very little interactions, very little personal quests.

Obviously BG2 improved it a lot, but most of the companions didn't have any significant personal quests.

Yes, such was your "quality over quantity".
Another fact for you : it was in 1998.

BG2 companions in any modern games wouldn't be less interresting than those in BG3.
Significant side quest does not make the quality.

That's only a Larianism to ONLY have origin characters/story from the beginning to the end of the game.

They could easily add companions that have shorter but interresting and less WTF stories/quests.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 04/03/21 10:59 AM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by marajango
I believe the reason for them sticking to 4 characters is that their engine probably can't handle more than 4 players at once in co-op.
The good news then is that it wouldn't need to.
It's not like expanding the party size limit would make mandatory to give each character to a different player... Or to fill the party in the first place.
True, but I don't believe that's how Larian thinks. They want to put huge emphasis of their marketing on "Play a full party with your friends!"
And they probably think people would get too easily bored in co-op if they had to wait for 5 other characters as well.

Just imagine this conversation between Larian and the player:

Larian: "You can play with your friends in co-op!"
Player: "Wow, cool! Party size is 6, right? So I can play with up to 5 friends?"
L: "Well... No. You can play with up to 3 friends, though."
P: "But that doesn't make sense. If I can have 6 characters in my party then why can I only play with a maximum of 3 friends?"
L: "Because our engine SUCKS, but we don't want to tell you that."
P: "Well, only allowing 4 player co-op in a game with a party size of 6 kinda makes it obvious."
L: "You are right. We probably should have sticked to a party size of 4 so we wouldn't have this conversation in the first place."

Last edited by marajango; 04/03/21 10:58 AM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Yes.
Another fact for you : it was in 1998.

BG2 companions in any modern games wouldn't be less interresting than those in BG3.
Significant side quest does not make the quality.

That's only a Larianism to ONLY have origin characters/story from the beginning to the end of the game.

They could easily add companions that have shorter but interresting and less WTF stories/quests.

Of course it was in 1998.
But you said:
Quote
BG1/2 companions were better on many points.
You are directly comparing BG1/2 companions to the ones from BG3. And you said previous were better. No, they weren't. They were good in 1998, but aren't anymore in 2021.

Which exactly companion quests from BG1 you consider as a high quality ones? Any examples?

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Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by dotmats
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There will be MORE Companions Dotmats

As far as we know, just 3 more.

edit: for comparison, BG1 has over 20.
You can't really compare BG1 companions to the ones from BG3. It's a different league of complexity. Quality over quantity, always.

That was exactly my first comment...

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Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by marajango
I believe the reason for them sticking to 4 characters is that their engine probably can't handle more than 4 players at once in co-op.
The good news then is that it wouldn't need to.
It's not like expanding the party size limit would make mandatory to give each character to a different player... Or to fill the party in the first place.
(...)

Just imagine this conversation between Larian and the player:

Larian: "You can play with your friends in co-op!"
Player: "Wow, cool! Party size is 6, right? So I can play with up to 5 friends?"
(...)

I can tell you why. It's easier to gather 4 people willing to play than 6.

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Originally Posted by dotmats
Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by dotmats
Quote
There will be MORE Companions Dotmats

As far as we know, just 3 more.

edit: for comparison, BG1 has over 20.
You can't really compare BG1 companions to the ones from BG3. It's a different league of complexity. Quality over quantity, always.

That was exactly my first comment...
Oh, if I missed some previous posts and misunderstood your intentions I'm sorry.
... quick reading
... Yep, my fault. So we're on the same side.

Last edited by pageu; 04/03/21 11:13 AM.
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Originally Posted by Naginata
Originally Posted by dotmats
Quote
There will be MORE Companions Dotmats

As far as we know, just 3 more.

edit: for comparison, BG1 has over 20.


Source?

Depends if you're up for delving into datamining threads. Here's an image of the files: https://imgur.com/GrFYAee

Nothing confirmed, but I'd have expected to see more companions in the recent patch if there were much more in the oven - especially as Larian have already tweaked the current companions based on lukewarm feedback and, you would expect, would want other companions to have the same chance.

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Larian has said you will be able to set the party size to six at game release. This is currently perfectly feasible for the game, but requires save game editing, so there is no reason for Larian not to deliver on this promise in the end.

There's some justifiable reasons they might not want to make this available during testing phases, though, mainly balance issues and similar.


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Originally Posted by pageu
Oh, if I missed some previous posts and misunderstood your intentions I'm sorry.
... quick reading
... Yep, my fault. So we're on the same side.

No worries! smile

I'm either/or for more or less characters really, there're benefits to both. I would hope for a few more than the 8 we'll probably get (maybe 12?) with a little less effort for each, mostly because I feel the characters in BG3 are overwritten - too much backstory/ too many opinions/ too much emoting etc. Puts me in the passive mode of absorbing rather than imagining which is my preference (to a point). I guess I feel like they're better TV characters than game ones? Idk, kind of besides the point.

I feel the Origin system is the root of most of this tbh. Everyone is a protagonist > everyone needs lots and lots of writing (too much for a side character, and often quantity over quality at this scale) > there can/ should only be a small number of them > party of 4.

If I were an executive: No Origin system (no one expected it here) > companions are complex side characters > there can be more now > party of 6.

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Originally Posted by dotmats
Originally Posted by pageu
Oh, if I missed some previous posts and misunderstood your intentions I'm sorry.
... quick reading
... Yep, my fault. So we're on the same side.

No worries! smile
(...)

I'm actually happy about origin system. Even though I'm not gonna play this way on my first couple of playthroughs it's a guarantee, that all companions will be at similar level of complexity and equally important. But I understand your point of view wink.

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Originally Posted by pageu
Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by marajango
I believe the reason for them sticking to 4 characters is that their engine probably can't handle more than 4 players at once in co-op.
The good news then is that it wouldn't need to.
It's not like expanding the party size limit would make mandatory to give each character to a different player... Or to fill the party in the first place.
(...)

Just imagine this conversation between Larian and the player:

Larian: "You can play with your friends in co-op!"
Player: "Wow, cool! Party size is 6, right? So I can play with up to 5 friends?"
(...)

I can tell you why. It's easier to gather 4 people willing to play than 6.
True, but the point I was trying to make were technical limitations. Not your personal social capabilities as a human being to gather friends around you.

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Originally Posted by Dexai
Larian has said you will be able to set the party size to six at game release. This is currently perfectly feasible for the game, but requires save game editing, so there is no reason for Larian not to deliver on this promise in the end.

There's some justifiable reasons they might not want to make this available during testing phases, though, mainly balance issues and similar.

Sources ? I only heard about mods, not official support.

It would be far more easy to balance the game with more companions.
All those bonus actions and cheesy things are necessary because we don't have enough things to do during combats with only 4 characters.

You cannot on the same time ask for them to remove advantages from highground/backstab or shove as an action, or... without asking them to increase the party size.
Combats would be even slower with a party of 4 and "a better implementation of the rules".

Last edited by Maximuuus; 04/03/21 11:46 AM.
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Originally Posted by Dexai
Larian has said you will be able to set the party size to six at game release. This is currently perfectly feasible for the game, but requires save game editing, so there is no reason for Larian not to deliver on this promise in the end.

There's some justifiable reasons they might not want to make this available during testing phases, though, mainly balance issues and similar.
I can't quite follow your logic here. Why would balancing be a reason to limit party size? In order to get balancing right they would actually need to unlock the maximum party size or else all the testing with an undersized party would make zero sense.
Or do you think the new maximum of 6 characters is for later chapters only?

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Dexai
Larian has said you will be able to set the party size to six at game release. This is currently perfectly feasible for the game, but requires save game editing, so there is no reason for Larian not to deliver on this promise in the end.

There's some justifiable reasons they might not want to make this available during testing phases, though, mainly balance issues and similar.

Sources ? I only heard about mods, not official support.

I remembered it as being part of an AMA, but I can't find it now, so maybe I am misremembering it.


Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by Dexai
Larian has said you will be able to set the party size to six at game release. This is currently perfectly feasible for the game, but requires save game editing, so there is no reason for Larian not to deliver on this promise in the end.

There's some justifiable reasons they might not want to make this available during testing phases, though, mainly balance issues and similar.
I can't quite follow your logic here. Why would balancing be a reason to limit party size? In order to get balancing right they would actually need to unlock the maximum party size or else all the testing with an undersized party would make zero sense.
Or do you think the new maximum of 6 characters is for later chapters only?

Because if they want to balance the game for a party of four and only allow people a bigger party as an option, they wouldn't want people playtesting it with a party of six.


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Originally Posted by Dexai
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Dexai
Larian has said you will be able to set the party size to six at game release. This is currently perfectly feasible for the game, but requires save game editing, so there is no reason for Larian not to deliver on this promise in the end.

There's some justifiable reasons they might not want to make this available during testing phases, though, mainly balance issues and similar.

Sources ? I only heard about mods, not official support.

I remembered it as being part of an AMA, but I can't find it now, so maybe I am misremembering it.


Originally Posted by marajango
Originally Posted by Dexai
Larian has said you will be able to set the party size to six at game release. This is currently perfectly feasible for the game, but requires save game editing, so there is no reason for Larian not to deliver on this promise in the end.

There's some justifiable reasons they might not want to make this available during testing phases, though, mainly balance issues and similar.
I can't quite follow your logic here. Why would balancing be a reason to limit party size? In order to get balancing right they would actually need to unlock the maximum party size or else all the testing with an undersized party would make zero sense.
Or do you think the new maximum of 6 characters is for later chapters only?

Because if they want to balance the game for a party of four and only allow people a bigger party as an option, they wouldn't want people playtesting it with a party of six.
Ah ok. I couldn't get from your previous post that a party of 6 would be optional. I would still argue though that it would only help their efforts if they would allow players to properly test this feature before release.

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Originally Posted by dotmats
Originally Posted by Naginata
Originally Posted by dotmats
Quote
There will be MORE Companions Dotmats

As far as we know, just 3 more.

edit: for comparison, BG1 has over 20.


Source?

Depends if you're up for delving into datamining threads. Here's an image of the files: https://imgur.com/GrFYAee

Nothing confirmed, but I'd have expected to see more companions in the recent patch if there were much more in the oven - especially as Larian have already tweaked the current companions based on lukewarm feedback and, you would expect, would want other companions to have the same chance.

Ok thanks


Minsc is a ranger
What class would the other two be?

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not gonna lie - if datamining proves tru and their are only eight npc companions, id be pretty disappointed. i really liked the variety original bg games had with 25+ recruitable companions and even if we can recruit 'mercs' imho that still falls short of an actual npc companion.

as an aside, i also cant seem to shake the feeling that the reduced number of companions also has trickle down impact to other game design choices outside of just party size, (like party movement/control, encounter balancing, rest/camping mechanics, hyping of origin characters, emphasis on multiplayer features, investment in vo/mc - admittedly vo/mc arent necessarily high on my list of bg3 ea priorities relative to other gaming aspects, etc.) and not for the better

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Pandemonica
I mean I may be wrong, but I seriously doubt at this stage they are going to change party size. Because then they would have to totally redo all the engagements difficulty and the mechanics behind them. To most people, 4 is fine. I mean who knows, maybe they will add more party characters, but considering it only takes a second to port to camp to swap out, and the extra work that would be involved in basically redefining the entire set of combat mechanics, I just don't see this happening. Not to mention, most RPGs, 4 is the standard now. It was the standard in their previous games for DOS as well.

Companions will be locked out according to Larian so there will be a point in time you can’t just swap them out.

Four is only the standard due to the popularity of console gaming. Devs are always thinking how they can port their PC games to consoles.

Maybe it is due to console, but it is still the standard. Also, I am a PC gamer for life, but we are not the major sales of any game. They will focus the development on what sells the most units which is console. I was just saying, that they have all the mechanics balanced for 4, I don't think they will backtrack and rejig all the mechanics for 5 or 6, especially 6. But hey I might be wrong. Just as long as they allow me to disable it in options, because I am just fine with 4. That has been what I have been using for over 10 years for all the other games. Not to mention, the fights in this game are so easy, I don't want them to make it even easier.

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Maybe it is due to console, but it is still the standard. Also, I am a PC gamer for life, but we are not the major sales of any game. They will focus the development on what sells the most units which is console. I was just saying, that they have all the mechanics balanced for 4, I don't think they will backtrack and rejig all the mechanics for 5 or 6, especially 6. But hey I might be wrong. Just as long as they allow me to disable it in options, because I am just fine with 4. That has been what I have been using for over 10 years for all the other games. Not to mention, the fights in this game are so easy, I don't want them to make it even easier.

The irony is, all the balancing issues are the result of Larian homebrew. The four characters work like 6-8 characters because Larian ignores a lot of action economy/advantage balancing. If they just decided to stick with 5e rules, you could increase the party size without compromising balance.

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