Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Why is the dream lover called Daisy? Tin Foil hat theory

I can't believe it took me this long to figure this out. Put on your tin foil hat and lend me your ears.


Why is the dream lover called 'Daisy'?


It came to me when I was thinking about BG2's clever references to literature and philosophy and wishing that BG3 would incorporate some other, similar references. And then I realized that there was one such reference, a reference to an event in computer history. Daisy is named after the first song ever sung by a computer: Daisy Bell aka "Bicycle Built for Two"



I think the devs are doing a bit of a flex and having a bit of fun -- look how far we have come since 1961! In '61 computers could sing a simple love song. Now we can create a dream lover with a human voice and neigh photo-realistic face.

Let's consider the Lyrics -- starting with Nat King Cole's famous adaptation:



Notice that when the first dream starts you are lying a field of clover. And you are half crazy because your consciousness now has two residents -- you have been forced onto a bicycle built for two.

Now if you've ever ridden a tandem you will know that decision of who sits in front a bicycle built for two is an important one. The person in front gets to steer, use the brakes and does most of the work -- the person in back is just support. If the person in back tries to steer or change pace it causes problems:

(Riding a Tandem Bike Will Ruin Your Relationship!)



The tandem dynamic plays out in the discussion between Tav and Daisy. Daisy wants Tav to let go -- fighting isn't getting them anywhere, they have to find out how to ride this bike together. But Tav resists because she isn't sure which partner will get to ride in front.

Now let's consider original, 1892, lyrics of Daisy Bell:


We lose the field of clover but we gain so much more insight into the relationship between Tav and Daisy. "Whether she loves me or loves me not, Sometimes it's hard to tell" Indeed, Tav, indeed. Sounds like a toxic relationship. Also notice that the love affair started involuntarily when someone " planted . . . a glancing dart".

The song ends with the relationship dynamic Daisy is seeking -- she will take lead in each trip Tav takes and Daisy, not Tav, has her hands on the brakes. Tav and Daisy need to travel the "dark road " to Moonrise towers.

Now admittedly this a real stretch but if we look at lines "You'll be the bell(e) which I'll ring" it's easy to assemble the lines "rung on the bell" which is a reference to head trauma. And having a worm in one's brain seems to qualify.

Still with me? You will need the tin foil for this next bit.

I think this song foreshadows events to come. Let's consider the most famous use of this song -- 2001: A space odyssey. In the course of the movie the relationship between Hal 9000 and Dave changes dramatically. At the start Dave assumes that he is in the driver's seat but it quickly comes clear that Hal is the partner calling on the shots in this relationship. So Dave opts for a bitter divorce, removing Hal's memory and de-evolving the world's most sophisticated computer in a machine only capable of singing a simple, silly love song:



And soon after Dave ascends. He evolves. He transforms into a new species, the Adam for the next stage of human evolution.

Remember that Daisy calls Tav her chosen. Remember that Shadowheart has a desire to become a Chosen of Shar. Some have even speculated that Shadowheart could herself be a divine avatar of a goddess. Perhaps this game -- like BG2, like DOS2 -- will end with some sort of ascension.

Tav is destined to become a god-like being. That's the message in the song.

/madness

Hehe Daisy do! I'd never heard of the version from 1892

Great one

I would argue that the bike of your mind is most definitely not built for two...

But if you're theorising that Larian are going to reuse as many of their tired old tropes that they've already ground into the dirt with their other games, here as well, well, you'll probably be on the money for that bit at least.


...Though the metaphor gets more amusing if you imagine yourself as the bicycle, and the two being your daisy and your prospective romance interest. At least then you can honestly say the bike is capable of accommodating both (and maybe a third if you play your cards right) as long as they can co-operate and share ^.^

My theory: Tav is the mortal reincarnation of Amaunator.

Evidence for this comes from the following exchange between two well-known riddle experts:


This correlation between the daisy and the sun illuminates the whole issue. Daisy keeps talking about Tav's unrealized potential, encouraging them to take their proper place of power and authority, and also keeps trying to establish a closer relationship between them both. But in the end, Daisy is a figure of dreams, a passing, weak thing - like a flower that blooms and fades - while Tav is the waking reality.

I think the conclusion is inescapable. Tav is the embodiment of the sun, struggling to remember their past life and power, the target (of course) of machinations by Shar. "Daisy" is the lowly mirror image held up to point us to this fact.

Also, "Tav" is three letters and "sun" is three letters. Coincidence? I think not!

The evidence was there all the time and yet it evaded me. Good catch.

Thanks!


That made me smile. But now I can't get that song by The Who out of my mind.

Well, I mean... realms over, Illithids are your number one go to if you want a mindf*, so, you can have your daisy handling the mental side of things, Wyll and Gale to handle the physical responsibilities (And of course, Shadow watching disapprovingly from the bushes...), and you're all set. I know people might use other more derogatory terms for the activity, but potential for divine ascendance or not aside, I'm not one to turn down an offer of the full goddess treatment package...

Apparently I'm in a 'mood' today, so, I'll see myself out...

That might be for the best. Otherwise I fear people might ask for details.

And by 'people' I mean me.

Hey...Wasn't that cow during the Druid stream, "Daisy" !! :O That cow is writing herself into the game, Daisy is a Mary-Sue! ....oh, it was Stephanie, nevermind.

Does anyone here remember the BG:II flag, "Too Sexy for this Brus" , quote not exact, but it certainly stuck with me. Brus is the urchin who offers to take you directly to the shadow thieves, I don't think he has any other role in the game, but I'll never forget his name because of that funny tag. If Daisy is just a funny reference that none of us could possibly know about, I'd be fine with that.

I think you mean a Dairy Sue.

I'll see myself out.

very interesting speculation

- It seems plausible that we will ascend to divinety.
BG3 starts like DOS2 (prisoner on a ship - stranded on a beach) so why not continue.
- Some people complained that we cannot select Lathander as god. Maybe the reason is that we are him.
I simply believe that more gods will be added later, just like we will get more races and classes.
- Even if we are him, there is no reason not to worship him.
In the expansion of Oblivion you can become the god of madness.When you then go to the statue and start a quest, he will tell you that you are giving a quest to yourself.
In BG3 this is not the god of madness, but Larian could be mad enough not to care, maybe.

- I thought our lover is an image created by the tadpole in order to control us. If you never use your tadpole powers the dream never comes.
In my last playthrough I made her a tiefling who looks as demonic as possible to remind myself she is evil and I should not believe anything she says.

The main protagonist is clearly Kylie Minogue and the mindflayers are obviously fans.

“Can’t Get You Out of My Head”

Bicycle! Bicycle!

OK, we need a dream where Kylie Minogue and Queen make a concert together, playing “Can’t Get You Out of My Head” and "bicycle race" ;-)

We are the true souls, my friends
And we'll be conquering to the end!
We are the true souls! We are the true souls!
No time for false gods
For we are the true souls
And we'll rule!


With a guest appearance by Nat King Cole singing "On a Bicycle Built for Two".