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What I would like to see is a list, by Larian, containing all the changes they made to the official rules and why they had decided is better in that way. This will make many players happy.

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Yeah would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Gustavo R
What I would like to see is a list, by Larian, containing all the changes they made to the official rules and why they had decided is better in that way. This will make many players happy.

YES, atleast make it a true talking point between players and Larian. Post their changes in an itemized or numbered list on various locations like steam and here, or even group them by type, like "No. 7: Changes to Summoning * Find Familiar blah blah blah" and then ask us what we feel about each change and WHY we feel that way. Try and get as many people as possible in on that discussion for varied views and so that a vocal minority doesn't absolutely dominate. Some of their changes have been positive and some negative, and looking at all of them in a directed discussion could not hurt at all.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Originally Posted by Gustavo R
What I would like to see is a list, by Larian, containing all the changes they made to the official rules and why they had decided is better in that way. This will make many players happy.

YES, atleast make it a true talking point between players and Larian. Post their changes in an itemized or numbered list on various locations like steam and here, or even group them by type, like "No. 7: Changes to Summoning * Find Familiar blah blah blah" and then ask us what we feel about each change and WHY we feel that way. Try and get as many people as possible in on that discussion for varied views and so that a vocal minority doesn't absolutely dominate. Some of their changes have been positive and some negative, and looking at all of them in a directed discussion could not hurt at all.


Exactly!!!! <3

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LOL, like Larian would talk to its community about critics.....

After almost half a year of silence, ignorance and lots of collecting data like „how often people pet the dog“ asking for such things is like asking Microsoft if they would please change their windows logo for some sort of fruit 🍎.

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Oh come on, the data gathering they are doing is very important and significant, and I am also sure they listen a great deal more than we give them credit for. I do believe they aren't really the best at communicating on the points raised on these forums, but I still VERY much have faith in them. They are one of my absolute favourite game companies, maybe even my number one favourite, and they are currently undertaking the game that I would consider the most profound game of my life so far, so I remain very hopeful! =)

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Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Oh come on, the data gathering they are doing is very important and significant, and I am also sure they listen a great deal more than we give them credit for. I do believe they aren't really the best at communicating on the points raised on these forums, but I still VERY much have faith in them. They are one of my absolute favourite game companies, maybe even my number one favourite, and they are currently undertaking the game that I would consider the most profound game of my life so far, so I remain very hopeful! =)

Data gathering without context is useless. When they see everyone abusing broken stealth, backstab, jump/disengage, etc instead of using actual 5e spells and skills they could easily assume that because people are using the tactics, that those are what people find to be compelling and fun about the game, when rather, the game itself railroads you into using those tactics unless you want to spend your playtime savescumming.

Last edited by Grudgebearer; 18/03/21 09:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Oh come on, the data gathering they are doing is very important and significant, and I am also sure they listen a great deal more than we give them credit for. I do believe they aren't really the best at communicating on the points raised on these forums, but I still VERY much have faith in them. They are one of my absolute favourite game companies, maybe even my number one favourite, and they are currently undertaking the game that I would consider the most profound game of my life so far, so I remain very hopeful! =)

Data gathering without context is useless. When they see everyone abusing broken stealth, backstab, jump/disengage, etc instead of using actual 5e spells and skills they could easily assume that because people are using the tactics, that those are what people find to be compelling and fun about the game, when rather, the game itself railroads you into using those tactics unless you want to spend your playtime savescumming.

Of course! That is why I hope they also scour the forums and such to get opinions!

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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Oh come on, the data gathering they are doing is very important and significant, and I am also sure they listen a great deal more than we give them credit for. I do believe they aren't really the best at communicating on the points raised on these forums, but I still VERY much have faith in them. They are one of my absolute favourite game companies, maybe even my number one favourite, and they are currently undertaking the game that I would consider the most profound game of my life so far, so I remain very hopeful! =)

Data gathering without context is useless. When they see everyone abusing broken stealth, backstab, jump/disengage, etc instead of using actual 5e spells and skills they could easily assume that because people are using the tactics, that those are what people find to be compelling and fun about the game, when rather, the game itself railroads you into using those tactics unless you want to spend your playtime savescumming.

I agree 100% - I have made this point on other fora and here. It hope that they understand this, but time will tell.

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I think them gathering data is good, but direct conversation can and would be an improvement for getting quality feedback.

If you see that people keep killing an NPC and then looting him, you may assume many things from that.
a) That NPC is easy to hate and people dislike him.
b) That NPC might have good rewards.
c) Maybe the NPC went aggro.
d) Something Else Entirely

However, without asking, a developer won't actually know for certain. Maybe they will be able to rule out C by looking at the data BUT how will they know if people like the NPC or not, or if people are killing them for the rewards, or doing it out of RP, or just murderhoboing. However, by asking they could get a far better picture. Maybe the NPC is being killed because people enjoy fighting them. Or something else in the game indicated that this may be an NPC to kill. Or they just plain need rewrites. Maybe they are actually popular as an NPC but people are killing them anyways.

Data needs context, and asking us is the best way to get context.
This is Larian's own forum and we are willing to talk, they just need to ask.

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What we need in the game, to please the audience that expects something true D&D and something more Larian System, is a settings' tab where you can choose something True D&D. For example:

- Sneak attack: everyone can do (Larian) / only rogues or character with the right feat (D&D)
- Rogue’s sneak attack: Click to select (Larian) / Automatic when the attack
- Sneak attack’s weapon: Any weapon (Larian) / Light weapons only
- Jumping cost: Bonus Action (Larian) / Action (D&D) / Out of combat only (Optional)
- Explosive barrels' damage: Hight damage (Larian) / Low damage / None
- Monster's HP: Larian System / Monster Manual
- High ground advantage: Yes (Larian) / Modifier +2 / None
- Low ground disadvantage: Yes (Larian) / Modifier -2 / None
- Disengage cost: Jump (Larian) / Action / Bonus Action / Cause automatic opportunity attack
- Climbing stairs cost: None / Normal Movement / Double Movement
- Throwing enemies cost: Action / Impossible
- XP gain: Larian System / Monster Manual / Half XP (difficult)
- Short rest per day: 1 / 2 / 3 / Unlimited
- Short rest cost: None / Resources
- Fatigue: None / Occasional / Realistic
- Long rest frequency: Unlimited (Larian) / Only when exhausted
- Time track: Irrelevant / Timed quests (difficult and possible broken)
- Choices' restriction by alignment: None (Larian) / Restricted
- Inventory system: Individual / Shared / One for the whole party
- Encumbrance: None / Light (Larian) / Realistic (difficult)
- Charisma modifier when shopping: From the selected character (Larian) / Highest bonus in the party / Average of everyone in the party
- Prices: Based on reputation / Fixed / Based on supply and demand
- Incidence of magic items: Common (Larian) / Rare (D&D) / Low-fantasy
- Eat and drink in combat cost: None / Action / Bonus Action / Impossible (difficult)
- Who can learn cleric spells: All spellcasters / Clerics only
- Who can learn mage spells: All spellcasters / Wizards only
- Who can use scrolls: Anyone / With the correct feat / All spellcasters / Only the original spell class
- Automatic formations: Yes (Larian) / No (please)
- Who starts the dialogues: Selected character (Larian) / Always the protagonist / The higher charisma's character
- Who fights when its starts: Only nearby characters / All characters
- Shove cost: Bonus Action (Larian) / Action / Actions Attack / Impossible
- Spells damages (e.g. Firebold): Larian System / PHB
- Rogues progression (e.g. Expertise feat, Cunning Action…): Larian System / PHB
- Dipping cost: Bonus action / Action / Impossible
- Objetc interactions cost: Unlimited (Larian) / Bonus Action / Action

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That would be like a wet dream, yeah. But you forgot reaction system! We need options to have Larians automatic crap or options for controlled reactions =)

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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by andreasrylander
Oh come on, the data gathering they are doing is very important and significant, and I am also sure they listen a great deal more than we give them credit for. I do believe they aren't really the best at communicating on the points raised on these forums, but I still VERY much have faith in them. They are one of my absolute favourite game companies, maybe even my number one favourite, and they are currently undertaking the game that I would consider the most profound game of my life so far, so I remain very hopeful! =)

Data gathering without context is useless. When they see everyone abusing broken stealth, backstab, jump/disengage, etc instead of using actual 5e spells and skills they could easily assume that because people are using the tactics, that those are what people find to be compelling and fun about the game, when rather, the game itself railroads you into using those tactics unless you want to spend your playtime savescumming.
I'm afraid of this too. I use all the exploits because I like to play "well" within the rules of a game, but at the same time I hate it and it's frustrating because you realize how much better the game could be. It just makes me want to stop playing.

A well worded poll would be much more informative for them.

I think the game has already strayed so far from 5e that it really needs an official "5e RAW" mode to keep D&D players happy. Something like that needs to be designed right from the start instead of haphazardly slapped on top as an afterthought.

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Good suggestions @Gustavo R but I'd modify a few things

- Sneak attack: I think you're talking about Backstab here, in which case the D&D option should be that no one can Backstab. Alternatively, see below
- Backstab: Backstab Advantage (Larian) / Flanking Advantage (D&D optional) / Flanking +2 (balanced) / No Backstab (D&D core)
- Monster's HP: The D&D 5e option would have to also change Monster AC, otherwise the goblin fights (the ~only monster Larian has significantly adjusted HP&AC-wise) would become trivial.
- XP Gain: I don't think having a "Monster Manual" XP gain would really make sense. 25%, 50%, 100%, and 150% of Larian XP would be better
- Who can use scrolls: I'm not sure that there is a feat that specifically gives you the ability to cast scrolls. I'd replace this option with "With a successful Arcana check"

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Originally Posted by Gustavo R
What we need in the game, to please the audience that expects something true D&D and something more Larian System, is a settings' tab where you can choose something True D&D. For example:

- Sneak attack: everyone can do (Larian) / only rogues or character with the right feat (D&D)
- Rogue’s sneak attack: Click to select (Larian) / Automatic when the attack
- Sneak attack’s weapon: Any weapon (Larian) / Light weapons only
- Jumping cost: Bonus Action (Larian) / Action (D&D) / Out of combat only (Optional)
- Explosive barrels' damage: Hight damage (Larian) / Low damage / None
- Monster's HP: Larian System / Monster Manual
- High ground advantage: Yes (Larian) / Modifier +2 / None
- Low ground disadvantage: Yes (Larian) / Modifier -2 / None
- Disengage cost: Jump (Larian) / Action / Bonus Action / Cause automatic opportunity attack
- Climbing stairs cost: None / Normal Movement / Double Movement
- Throwing enemies cost: Action / Impossible
- XP gain: Larian System / Monster Manual / Half XP (difficult)
- Short rest per day: 1 / 2 / 3 / Unlimited
- Short rest cost: None / Resources
- Fatigue: None / Occasional / Realistic
- Long rest frequency: Unlimited (Larian) / Only when exhausted
- Time track: Irrelevant / Timed quests (difficult and possible broken)
- Choices' restriction by alignment: None (Larian) / Restricted
- Inventory system: Individual / Shared / One for the whole party
- Encumbrance: None / Light (Larian) / Realistic (difficult)
- Charisma modifier when shopping: From the selected character (Larian) / Highest bonus in the party / Average of everyone in the party
- Prices: Based on reputation / Fixed / Based on supply and demand
- Incidence of magic items: Common (Larian) / Rare (D&D) / Low-fantasy
- Eat and drink in combat cost: None / Action / Bonus Action / Impossible (difficult)
- Who can learn cleric spells: All spellcasters / Clerics only
- Who can learn mage spells: All spellcasters / Wizards only
- Who can use scrolls: Anyone / With the correct feat / All spellcasters / Only the original spell class
- Automatic formations: Yes (Larian) / No (please)
- Who starts the dialogues: Selected character (Larian) / Always the protagonist / The higher charisma's character
- Who fights when its starts: Only nearby characters / All characters
- Shove cost: Bonus Action (Larian) / Action / Actions Attack / Impossible
- Spells damages (e.g. Firebold): Larian System / PHB
- Rogues progression (e.g. Expertise feat, Cunning Action…): Larian System / PHB
- Dipping cost: Bonus action / Action / Impossible
- Objetc interactions cost: Unlimited (Larian) / Bonus Action / Action

Impressive work.

Much effort. So organize. </doge>

I don't know if Larian is checking these forums so make sure to send via feedback button as well.

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I am absolutely a big advocate for options, give us customizability, the option to implement homebrew as we see fit like how we would at a dnd table.

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Originally Posted by Gustavo R
What we need in the game, to please the audience that expects something true D&D and something more Larian System, is a settings' tab where you can choose something True D&D. For example:

Well this would be a huge step forward, but probably would take too many resources to implement.

I would be happy with a "win combat" button. I like the story, I like the atmosphere but I think the combat is irredeemable broken for me.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Good suggestions @Gustavo R but I'd modify a few things

- Sneak attack: I think you're talking about Backstab here, in which case the D&D option should be that no one can Backstab. Alternatively, see below
- Backstab: Backstab Advantage (Larian) / Flanking Advantage (D&D optional) / Flanking +2 (balanced) / No Backstab (D&D core)
- Monster's HP: The D&D 5e option would have to also change Monster AC, otherwise the goblin fights (the ~only monster Larian has significantly adjusted HP&AC-wise) would become trivial.
- XP Gain: I don't think having a "Monster Manual" XP gain would really make sense. 25%, 50%, 100%, and 150% of Larian XP would be better
- Who can use scrolls: I'm not sure that there is a feat that specifically gives you the ability to cast scrolls. I'd replace this option with "With a successful Arcana check"

Exactly!
Thank you. I used to play AD&D back in the day. I am far from being an expert in D&D 5e.

Last edited by Gustavo R; 08/04/21 09:12 PM. Reason: spelling corrections
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Dear developers at Larian studios and fans,

I know this is not the first time this has been posted and sadly, this topic often times contains rants from dissapointed players. However, I want to present to you a post from reddit with a very constructive discussion that has gained huge attention.

This is the link to the post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...ate_3_should_be_like_5e_and_here_is_why/

Please make sure to read the comment section aswell, for it contains a constructive discussion of many more things!

Please read this post thoroughly. But also, read the discussion of players in the comments. There are many multiple things to discuss. For example advantage gained from high ground vs spending a full action and a spell slot on faery fire to gain advantage. The ability to constantly dip any weapon into a torch, or a candle, which can be dropped from your inventory during combat, to gain 1d4 bonus fire damage on every single attack. The amount of potions, scrolls and food and lots of other things.

This is the post without the comment section:

So recently there was a thread explaining why the poster thought that BG3 doesn't have to play like 5e. It gained some traction but to me, this really missed the issues of why people don't like the changes made in Larian's take on the franchise. In a nutshell, Larian has caused some massive imbalances with changes they've made to the game.

Shove is a premier example, it is an instant kill button on some enemies, free damage on others, and as a bonus action you always have access to it from level one and always exists as an option after your primary actions are taken. But that's not all, this also invalidates what is normally the premier reason for a tank character to grab the shield master feat, because it enables shove as part of the attack action, allowing you to knock enemies prone, create space for allies, position enemies better, or indeed, yeet them off of cliffs. But that is something that normally exists as a FEAT LIMITED TO A WEAPON TYPE for a reason.

Want another easy one? Disengage as a bonus action. Disengage is meant to be a "get out of jail" card used by character in a disadvantage situation at the cost of their turn. The only class which is meant to get it as a bonus action is the rogue with the use of cunning action. By giving it to everyone, you only nerf the rogue and for no real reason either, I mean who asked for this change? It almost completely eliminates opportunity attacks as a threat entirely. On that note, who should get access to sneak attack? A rogue using a light weapon, that is why daggers exist in 5e.

Consumables at the moment are absolutely nuts, barrels provide free fireballs on standby to anyone who picks them up and the floor effects are infuriating.

Larian has, by changing so many aspects of 5e, completely killed any sense of balance in their encounters. The thing that 5e is so often praised for was butchered and watered down and the worst part is it was done for no real reason. I would actually like to see Larian discuss and explain why many of these changes were done, because it seems to me they have put themselves into a slow spiral of making numerous small changes to cover gaps that their previous changes made in the system, instead of just faithfully keeping the system that was not broken in the first place.

So let me conclude this with discussing some of the points usually made in defense of Larian's take.

Reactions would slow down combat!
Not by any significant margin. Just look at how Solasta handles it. It takes more time for me to go to my hot bar, select the opportunity attack option I might want active, toggle it, remember to toggle it back off when needed then to just press "Yes" or "No" to an onscreen prompt and you can definitely limit those prompts in the same way Solasta does by only giving you the option for something like the shield spell if it would change the outcome.

Some classes have excessive buff options like divination wizard or bardic inspiration that would also bog things down.
I guarantee you anyone who played those classes or chose to have them on their team would definitely want the options that are supposed to be available to their class when appropriate instead of simply removing features because someone forgot to toggle them.

Some abilities don't translate as well to a videogame
Some, but very little. Most spells or abilities in 5e exist on a mechanical standpoint. The ones that exist in that fashion will translate perfectly fine. The one's that don't are ones that are typically at the DM's discretion or effect NPC (Zone of Truth is a good example, good luck with that one). Reactions however, are not one of those things.

But my floor effects!
Make them limited to spells that would actually use it or remove them entirely, this isn't divinity. But it definitely feels like it with all these elements from divinity lazily transferred over.

EDIT: To be clear. Shoving in 5e is something that requires an action. Same goes for Disengage. No one is saying to remove those actions from the game, but simply make them actually cost an action like normal instead of a bonus action like in 5e. I've responded to too many comments who think I am advocating for the shove button to be deleted.


Thank you all for reading! Good luck developing the game and stay safe!

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The reaction system from Solasty is dire and I am strongly against all pop-ups in combat.
The problem is that the number of pop-ups will increase significantly the farther in the game and also as the number of enemies increases.
I can already see the number of windows when you try to fight the goblin camp.
The situation will be even worse if you have a team of reaction-based classes.
I could survive it if we could reduce the number of available reactions significantly by converting most of them into bonus actions.
What I certainly wouldn't want is asking about using smite with every attack.
I don't really want to see a popup every 5 seconds.
If larian managed to introduce reactions without interrupting the game with pop-ups, it would be great, but if the alternative was the Solasty system, I prefer it to stay as it is.

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