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So, starting a new one. This one's purpose is to day that I feel like Larian, as my DM, punishes me for good role playing.

1. I don't search every container and body and push myself to hurry to find a cure for myself and my companions.

Punishment for good roleplaying: I miss out on finding cool books and gear because Im trying to escape a burning mind flayer ship blasting through the Hells. This holds true through the whole game. Rush to the gobbo camp or Gith creche, miss out on tons of stuff.

Solution? Auto search. Perception checks find good items instead of hunting for them through all the junk.

2. I don't end day frequently because Im racing against time to save myself and others.

Punishment for good roleplaying: I miss out on lots of character development and convos.

Solution? Untie rest and convos.

3. I don't use tadpole powers.

Punishment for good roleplaying: I don't meet the dream person at all.

Solution? Make it so that if I rest too much the dream person starts to appear. If I use tadpole powers, they appear faster.

My point: I feel like I am penalized more in BG3 for putting myself actually in the role of my character instead of being rewarded. Unless I casually and leisurely waltz around searching everything slowly, rest often, use tadpole powers and pretty much everything you shouldn't be doing with a tadpole in your head, I don't get all the cool things.

On the flip side, there are no punishments for bad role playing. Gobbos don't attack the grove even though they know where it is and not matter how long I take. Druids never kick people out of the grove. Etc.

So my suggestion is to reward good gaming and punish bad gaming.

Last edited by GM4Him; 18/03/21 03:50 AM.
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How far have you played EA, because you learn relatively soon...
that there isn't actually as much a sense of urgency and why, when it comes to the tadpole.

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Ive played through many times. I don't care what people say, you have a mind flayer tadpole in your head. That's urgent.

So let me get this straight, if you had a tadpole in your head and people telling you your flesh will shed off, youd casually stroll about searching every little crack?

Last edited by GM4Him; 18/03/21 03:56 AM.
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I said this elsewhere earlier but it's more directly relevant to this thread, so:

I have always hated it when games punish me *FOR BUYING INTO* the (false) sense of urgency.
Games often present a negative consequence for actually treating the supposed emergency, urgent thing, or time sensitive task as such.

Ive played games where doing the time sensitive emergency first gets you the bad ending, becasue you're supposed to ignore it and do literally everything else first to get the good ending.
I've played games where doing the urgen tasks first leaves you underpowerd, as in underleveled and undergeared, because the game expected you to earn xp, money, and loot doing random tasks with no urgency at all first. Yes this woman's husband was kidnapped and is going to be executed any second now, leaving a child fatherless, but you need to pick all these flowers and clear the rats out of the basement first because level scaling.

And I've played games, like Baldurs Gate 3, where I'm mechanically punished for buying into the false urgency by being underpowered relative to the people who don't buy into it, because they get to go in with all resources replenished while I don't. Someone who made reaching Halsin drastically easier (and completly broke the balance of this DnD based game, which relies on rests as a huge balancing factor) by long resting after every set of goblins shouldn't get the same result as me, who fought my way there in one game day. Strictly speaking you can, and I did on my first character, get to Halsin without fighting by making the goblins think you're an ally, but for the sake of discussion this is fighting through with the cannon urgency vs fighting through ignoring it. If I have a more difficult set of encounters, fighting these goblins while strategicly using and/or running out of spell slots and entering fights below max hp, by doing it in one day, and another player has a bunch of easy af encounters because they spent a whole week taking naps before they reached him, then my Halsin should be like "wow you were quick" and their Halsin should be dead already.

And lastly I've played games, *primarily* Baldurs Gate 3, where I'm cannonically punished for acting on the cannonical urgency, by all this missed companion dialogue I'm not getting because I don't sleep for 8 hours every 5 minutes. Absolutely attrocius.

If the story is going to present urgency, actually have it, or at the very least don't punish players for pretending it's real.

Last edited by The Old Soul; 18/03/21 04:21 AM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ive played through many times. I don't care what people say, you have a mind flayer tadpole in your head. That's urgent.

So let me get this straight, if you had a tadpole in your head and people telling you your flesh will shed off, youd casually stroll about searching every little crack?

I agree with the OP, there should be a blend of storytelling and gameplay elements. ATM gameplay far outweighs the story, it would be nice if the player were punished for taking too long imo. Like when you get the bad ending smile. Or they could punish players for using the mindflayer powers too much, which could result in another bad ending where you turn into a mindflayer.

I think Act 1 should create urgency in the gameplay, you should sleep, maybe a maximum of 4 nights before the mindflayer worm gets you.

Perhaps Larian devs, you could create a difficulty that resembles this? Like a Role Playing difficulty, and you can have Classic as being non-punishing difficulty.

Last edited by FatePeddler; 18/03/21 04:25 AM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ive played through many times. I don't care what people say, you have a mind flayer tadpole in your head. That's urgent.

So let me get this straight, if you had a tadpole in your head and people telling you your flesh will shed off, youd casually stroll about searching every little crack?

And the story tells you quite clearly that the tadpole in your head is not "normal", and there are several other "True Souls" that you encounter in the game that have had tadpoles in their heads for much longer than you, who have not succumbed to cremorphosis. So that should tell you that the sense of impending doom that is portrayed in the first few minutes of the game, is somewhat overblown.

Did you actually complete Omeluum's quest?

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You're told it isn't "normal" but you're also told by everyone that takes a look that they really have no idea what's going on, when/if it could trigger or how screwed you are. Every time you use the thing you get warnings of damage being caused and as for the the "true souls", they're sleepers and you have no knowledge of when or how they could be triggered. Cyberpunk, for a recent example, has this same issue where you're told you're pretty well screwed but then you run can run around picking daisies for months with 0 consequences.

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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ive played through many times. I don't care what people say, you have a mind flayer tadpole in your head. That's urgent.

So let me get this straight, if you had a tadpole in your head and people telling you your flesh will shed off, youd casually stroll about searching every little crack?

And the story tells you quite clearly that the tadpole in your head is not "normal", and there are several other "True Souls" that you encounter in the game that have had tadpoles in their heads for much longer than you, who have not succumbed to cremorphosis. So that should tell you that the sense of impending doom that is portrayed in the first few minutes of the game, is somewhat overblown.

Did you actually complete Omeluum's quest?

The motive behind the magic on the tadpole also creates anxiety and urgency. Unless you want to role play as an ignoramus.

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1. I don't know if auto search would be the best, but searching a group of containers rather than individual ones would make it better I think.
2. Agreed
3. I think we will find more about the dream person in later acts, perhaps they will appear even without tadpole use then. Honestly I think this part is lame anyway for reasons that have nothing to do with this post.
I am pretty sure there will be negatives from using the tadpole later on in the game and not using it will probably be rewarded.

Originally Posted by The Old Soul
And lastly I've played games, *primarily* Baldurs Gate 3, where I'm cannonically punished for acting on the cannonical urgency, by all this missed companion dialogue I'm not getting because I don't sleep for 8 hours every 5 minutes. Absolutely attrocius.
The sad part of this is that they seem to expect everyone to know this, or expect everyone to be lazy and have everything refreshed for each fight. Those of us who treat the game a bit more like DnD get screwed badly for doing more than one fight per rest. I had to force myself to rest more often in my last playthrough and because I did the goblin encampment interior as one encounter, I think I still missed out on dialogue even though I rested pointlessly after every fight before this. It feels unnatural and unimmersive.

Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ive played through many times. I don't care what people say, you have a mind flayer tadpole in your head. That's urgent.

So let me get this straight, if you had a tadpole in your head and people telling you your flesh will shed off, youd casually stroll about searching every little crack?

And the story tells you quite clearly that the tadpole in your head is not "normal", and there are several other "True Souls" that you encounter in the game that have had tadpoles in their heads for much longer than you, who have not succumbed to cremorphosis. So that should tell you that the sense of impending doom that is portrayed in the first few minutes of the game, is somewhat overblown.
I have said in another thread that they probably should add some sort of dialogue saying that it is impossible to remove the tadpole (this can be true or not, we would find out later.) Otherwise nearly all of my characters would find an unwelcome parasite added into the body against their will to be something that needs to be removed as soon as possible, they would not care one bit about anything else.

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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ive played through many times. I don't care what people say, you have a mind flayer tadpole in your head. That's urgent.

So let me get this straight, if you had a tadpole in your head and people telling you your flesh will shed off, youd casually stroll about searching every little crack?

And the story tells you quite clearly that the tadpole in your head is not "normal", and there are several other "True Souls" that you encounter in the game that have had tadpoles in their heads for much longer than you, who have not succumbed to cremorphosis. So that should tell you that the sense of impending doom that is portrayed in the first few minutes of the game, is somewhat overblown.

Did you actually complete Omeluum's quest?
Omeluum is a LONG way into the game. And he's the only person that says anything to suggest with any viability that you don't need to worry about turning if you take to long. Other people say it's happening slower, but that doesn't mean anything. At any point the next hour could still be the hour it happens. No matter how many days have passed already, the next night is still liable to be the one where you turn. Only the line where "it's not happening at all" matters.

By all logic, with what is currently in the game, the PC and companions should not willingly take a long rest until after they stumble on Omeluum, and he examines you.
And since you have no foreknowledge he's hangin around in the Underdark, there's no basis for seeking him out.
Which would mean the first time it makes sense to long rest, after meeting him, would be:
-after saving the Grove from the initial goblin attack, since that happens in your face and in your way.
-after saving the Grove in the larger sense by saving Halsin, because there was an alleged chance he could help you.
-after dealing with all the Goblin leaders to help the tiefling refugees, because that's in the same place as Halsin, and you need to help them before the ritual completes.
-after seeking help from the Gith patrol [which is hands down the first thing you should as soon as you get Lae'Zel out of the cage. Doing anything other than going from the cage, to the dude in the grove, to the patrol, all in one, is cannonically ridiculous. The devs should expect players to be meeting the patrol at level 1 or 2, so it's outright ridiculous that they, of all people, are level 5.]
-and after any of the many things on the surface you encounter on your way to and from all of that before finding an underdark entrance

Meanwhile some players have let two months pass before meeting Omeluum and learning the tadpole isn't as time sensitive as they thought because they go to sleep every 30 seconds after getting papercuts.

Last edited by The Old Soul; 18/03/21 06:02 AM.
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Originally Posted by The Old Soul
Omeluum is a LONG way into the game. And he's the only person that says anything to suggest with any viability that you don't need to worry about turning if you take to long. Other people say it's happening slower, but that doesn't mean anything. At any point the next hour could still be the hour it happens. No matter how many days have passed already, the next night is still liable to be the one where you turn. Only the line where "it's not happening at all" matters.
Omellum is the only one that spells out the "how", but Raphael also implies that you are not in immediate danger of turning until a specific point (and he will be there to offer his deal then). And he sounds like he knows more about the situation than Omellum.

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Originally Posted by The Old Soul
Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ive played through many times. I don't care what people say, you have a mind flayer tadpole in your head. That's urgent.

So let me get this straight, if you had a tadpole in your head and people telling you your flesh will shed off, youd casually stroll about searching every little crack?

And the story tells you quite clearly that the tadpole in your head is not "normal", and there are several other "True Souls" that you encounter in the game that have had tadpoles in their heads for much longer than you, who have not succumbed to cremorphosis. So that should tell you that the sense of impending doom that is portrayed in the first few minutes of the game, is somewhat overblown.

Did you actually complete Omeluum's quest?
Omeluum is a LONG way into the game. And he's the only person that says anything to suggest with any viability that you don't need to worry about turning if you take to long. Other people say it's happening slower, but that doesn't mean anything. At any point the next hour could still be the hour it happens. No matter how many days have passed already, the next night is still liable to be the one where you turn. Only the line where "it's not happening at all" matters.

By all logic, with what is currently in the game, the PC and companions should not willingly take a long rest until after they stumble on Omeluum, and he examines you.
And since you have no foreknowledge he's hangin around in the Underdark, there's no basis for seeking him out.
Which would mean the first time it makes sense to long rest, after meeting him, would be:
-after saving the Grove from the initial goblin attack, since that happens in your face and in your way.
-after saving the Grove in the larger sense by saving Halsin, because there was an alleged chance he could help you.
-after dealing with all the Goblin leaders to help the tiefling refugees, because that's in the same place as Halsin, and you need to help them before the ritual completes.
-after seeking help from the Gith patrol [which is hands down the first thing you should as soon as you get Lae'Zel out of the cage. Doing anything other than going from the cage, to the dude in the grove, to the patrol, all in one, is cannonically ridiculous. The devs should expect players to be meeting the patrol at level 1 or 2, so it's outright ridiculous that they, of all people, are level 5.]
-and after any of the many things on the surface you encounter on your way to and from all of that before finding an underdark entrance

Meanwhile some players have let two months pass before meeting Omeluum and learning the tadpole isn't as time sensitive as they thought because they go to sleep every 30 seconds after getting papercuts.

Once you go to the grove...

You encounter Nettie who tells you about the Drow, who also didn't change, and had a tadpole exit his body after death. Then you come across the dying dwarf, whose tadpole didn't change him even in lieu of him being wounded to the point of death. If those aren't the first clues that ceremorphosis is not so imminent of a threat as you suspected, then I don't know what is.

Of course you want it out of your head, but the necessity to do it as quickly as possible, starts to be removed from that point forward.

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Even after hearing from Omeluum that transformation isn't imminent, I would still be prioritizing getting the alien worm out of my head over everything else.

Also, if their plan is to say "Hurry, hurry, hurry!" and then quickly 180 into "Everything's fine, probably." then that's a huge letdown as far as storytelling. They've taken away my character's primary motivation 5-10% into the game.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
Even after hearing from Omeluum that transformation isn't imminent, I would still be prioritizing getting the alien worm out of my head over everything else.

Also, if their plan is to say "Hurry, hurry, hurry!" and then quickly 180 into "Everything's fine, probably." then that's a huge letdown as far as storytelling. They've taken away my character's primary motivation 5-10% into the game.

I think your response would depend highly on what type of character you are playing. Astarion hints in early conversation that he wants to harness it's power rather than get rid of it, and if I recall correctly you can agree with him.

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Originally Posted by Grudgebearer
Once you go to the grove...

You encounter Nettie who tells you about the Drow, who also didn't change, and had a tadpole exit his body after death. Then you come across the dying dwarf, whose tadpole didn't change him even in lieu of him being wounded to the point of death. If those aren't the first clues that ceremorphosis is not so imminent of a threat as you suspected, then I don't know what is.

Of course you want it out of your head, but the necessity to do it as quickly as possible, starts to be removed from that point forward.

Those are only clues to suggest the process is slowed, and that that's weird. Which is irrelevant. As I already said, only the conclusive statement that the process is *STOPPED*, not slowed, stopped, matters at all.
The process having been slowed only serves to say "you're lucky to have not turned yet, but you still need to devote 999% of yourself to being cured this hour so you don't turn next hour."
You should have turned earlier, but since it was slowed, you're about to turn right now instead. There is still no basis for toning down the rush until you know for certain there's no deadline at all.
Getting it out as quickly as possible is fully a necessity until you know about the Stasis.

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Sure, my character's responses will be all over the place. As a player, I feel let down by how hard they sell the danger and the urgency (most of the companions make a point about how important speed is) and then how quickly they back off of it.

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Just remembered another aspect of this.
Those Illthyd dialogue choices that only work once per long rest.
The player that rests every 30 seconds can do every single one, if they like.
The player that rests when it's actually reasonable to rest again will miss several, if not every single one, regardless of whether or not they would want to use them.

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Yes, because that's how RPGs normally work, and if tentacles do just suddenly burst out of your head, you start up a new game. Or just enjoy being a Mind Flayer.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
2. I don't end day frequently because Im racing against time to save myself and others.

Punishment for good roleplaying: I miss out on lots of character development and convos.

Solution? Untie rest and convos.

3. I don't use tadpole powers.

Punishment for good roleplaying: I don't meet the dream person at all.
I agree on untying the companion dialogues from camping. Companions will chat with each other while walking down the road, but the main character is playing the camp counselor for no reason. Many of the camp interactions could have happened while travelling.

With tadpole powers however I suspect that is the point; unless you use the powers, the absolute cannot get enough of a foothold in your mind to project the dream lover.

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1) Agreed. Making us search every container is the same bs as pixelhunting for a spot on enemie body that you can shoot without being blocked by ceiling. In a d20 rpg those actions should be represented by character skills - not player actions.
2) Either unite from camp or do as Dragon Age did it. Stack conversations and play them in order when you do go to camp.
3) I think this plot line should be tied to number of long rests, with usage of tadpole powers accelerating the process.

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