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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Exactly. I think this is the misunderstanding a lot are having about my post. I'm not saying let's make BG3 into BG3: Zerg Rush. Maybe I'm saying that for the prologue, but it's a prologue with a burning nautiloid being attacked by dragons and Gith and demons and imps. You are 100% in a hostile environment with NO friends or allies that you can trust. It goes 100% against the story to have your PC roam around the ship like you aren't blazing through the Hells. So yes. For that prologue scene, it should maybe be a bit more like a "get your butt in gear" game.
I don't think it is a good idea to make the player race through the tutorial areas while they might be still learning the controls. Especially since the party controls in BG3 are so clunky compared to most cRPGs. If the intro were too frustrating, people would just refund at that point. BG1 had a tutorial that didn't try to be all that realistic either, but was extensive enough to teach you the basics.

My preference would be to replace the camping trip with resting in that particular location, and add a chance to spawn an enemy ambush in dangerous areas. Just have everyone pull out a bedroll and maybe start a camp fire. Pathfinder Kingmaker did it this way, including characters being slow to wake up when attacked.

Camping could be limited to resting only in safe areas, but tbh I still don't see how npcs like Volo are supposed to follow the party to Moonrise towers.

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Originally Posted by Niara
Personally, Once I saw that the tadpoles they were using on us were special in such a way that they could be triggered by a remote psionic key to instantaneously evoke a full and complete transformation in a matter of seconds, that was all the narrative proof I needed to know that urgency was absolute. We see it in the ship, at the start.
This.

Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
I think the new dialogue with Nettie goes a long way toward explaining why things aren't so urgent. We also pick up Wyll in the Grove, who takes a much more laid-back attitude toward the search for a cure, but by that point we've listened to the others panicking for so long that we're not likely to go along with his viewpoint.
Happy to hear that dialogue has been added to make things less urgent, although that doesn't necessarily address @Niara's point. Unless it does...I haven't played patch 4 so idk exactly what the dialogue is.
Good point that we've already been listening to panicking companions (especially Lae'zel, who seems like The Expert on illithids) up until that point so are less likely to really listen to Wyll.

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Originally Posted by ash elemental
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Exactly. I think this is the misunderstanding a lot are having about my post. I'm not saying let's make BG3 into BG3: Zerg Rush. Maybe I'm saying that for the prologue, but it's a prologue with a burning nautiloid being attacked by dragons and Gith and demons and imps. You are 100% in a hostile environment with NO friends or allies that you can trust. It goes 100% against the story to have your PC roam around the ship like you aren't blazing through the Hells. So yes. For that prologue scene, it should maybe be a bit more like a "get your butt in gear" game.
I don't think it is a good idea to make the player race through the tutorial areas while they might be still learning the controls. Especially since the party controls in BG3 are so clunky compared to most cRPGs. If the intro were too frustrating, people would just refund at that point. BG1 had a tutorial that didn't try to be all that realistic either, but was extensive enough to teach you the basics.

My preference would be to replace the camping trip with resting in that particular location, and add a chance to spawn an enemy ambush in dangerous areas. Just have everyone pull out a bedroll and maybe start a camp fire. Pathfinder Kingmaker did it this way, including characters being slow to wake up when attacked.

Camping could be limited to resting only in safe areas, but tbh I still don't see how npcs like Volo are supposed to follow the party to Moonrise towers.

Again, I don't mean to make it seem like I'm rushing players too much in the prologue. I'm just saying some sort of sense of urgency at least.

Perhaps a better idea to illustrate what I'm saying is that the room you start in is on fire. Make it so that your character says, "The fire is spreading. I need to get out of here. Now!" after you've been poking around for a minute or so to get your bearings. Thus, teaching players that fires are not static in the game. They can spread. Then, in the room with the devourer, allow the player to search around a bit, find the devourer, etc. Then after the devourer, a small cutscene. Demons burst into the room you are in from the room you had just left. Your character spots them from where the devourer scene occurs, up on the higher level. The camera pans to the exit, indicating to you that this is where you need to go. Cutscene ends with a dragon bursting into the room, snatching one of the demons and gulping it down. The other demons attack the dragon. They continue fighting right there near you while you are hurrying out of the room.

This is the kinds of things I'm talking about. It doesn't have to be exactly what I've suggested. I'm just looking for something to build more excitement and keep the pace up.

As for the rest of what you said, I totally agree. I would LOVE if they replaced the camping trip with resting in whatever location you're in. I'd love random chance encounters. The more dangerous the area, the less likely you will rest safely. Rest in the druid's grove, no chance of attack. Shoot! Even make the camp somewhere in the druid's grove that I can actually physically get to and I'd be happy with it. Right now, resting in this nebulous camp that doesn't really exist anywhere on the map is weird.

The only reason I suggested otherwise is because my thought is that Larian wouldn't have to tweak the game THAT much to implement what I was suggesting. All the elements are already there for them to implement my suggestions. They would just need to tweak what they have built already to make it happen. Well...knowing IT...I know it's not as easy I just made it sound, but I'd think it'd be easier than trying to implement what I'd really want, which is what I just stated here.

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Originally Posted by MrSam
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Jesus Christ man, just relax! This is just a pc game not real life. You should really experience some really hard things in real life so you would understand that there are more important things to worry about than some pc game. Honestly you made me so mad that it's hard to control my anger. Shut down your computer, get some help from professional and when you're better, maybe then you can try to play again, but remember that it's just a silly little game, nothing that has any real meaning.
If you're really that heated I suggest you step away from the computer.

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the parasite story is really reminiscent of the spring mage ring around the neck of sin2, don't think that's good either, it's just the same and honestly it annoyed me at the time that I had a flaw in the sense of a neck ring or now a parasite in my eye .. I'd rather have something supernatural in the spirit, but I also find hectic and targeted coming back to this topic bad.

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Can we please stop making assumptions about other people's lives and gaming habits?

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Guys look. It's not about gaming habits and lives. It's about how the game currently forces people to rest a lot, which is exactly the opposite of what people should be doing if goblins are threatening to kill a bunch of people and your only hope for a cure that you know of could die at any moment.

The game forces you to End Day in order to have dialogue with characters and character development. So it isn't about gaming habits. The point is that unless I rest even when I don't really need to, I miss out on cool stuff.

All I am really asking for, when you really come down to it, is that they untie the dang dialogue from End Day so that I don't have to End Day in order to have character development. That is my main beef. I'm also asking that they stop having characters say they want to go to bed when the whole party is full health and has hardly done anything just because I need to trigger a dialogue.

I feel like you guys are trying to prevent me from being able to play the game the way I want because you are afraid I'm trying to take away some sort of element that allows you to play the game you want.

But think about all that I suggested. How does it really hurt the common player?

1. Create an Auto-Search function that is an Option you can enable in the Options menu so that if you don't want to search every room the way you do now, you can just trust a Perception check. If you want to search the game as you do now, don't enable the Auto-Search. Let me have it, though, so that me and players like me can use Auto-Search and keep the pace of the game going without having to play Hidden Objects.

2. Untie dialogue from End Day. That way, if I don't End Day all the time, I still get to have the same dialogues all the rest of you have who End Day whenever a dialogue is available.

3. 2 Long Rests a day instead of End Day. How does this hurt you? Instead of each time you Long Rest you end an entire 24-hour day, it only makes 8 hours go by. So you get 2 Long Rests per day so that if you do need a Long Rest more regularly you aren't making an entire 24 hours go by; just 8. This makes it more believable that goblins haven't attacked the grove yet if you long rest a bunch of times. Again, doesn't hurt you. It just makes the game a bit more believable for people like me. It gives you MORE freedom to Long Rest without each Long Rest being a full day. I might be willing to Long Rest more if I know it is only 8 hours.

4. Time Sensitive events. This is the only one that I admit might be perceived as hurting other players' gameplay, but honestly it would ONLY give players the freedom to trigger events like the fight at the Druid's Grove without being evil. It rewards players for doing things in a timely manner, like dethroning Kahga, so druids help in the fight. And if you have 2 Long Rests a day, even 3 days is 6 Long Rests and 12 Short. So that's still a lot of Long and Short Rests, and that's half the time I was suggesting.

The number of long rests isn't my suggestion. It's that they limit Long Rests in some way, triggering certain events after you have done X number of Long Rests. So I'm just suggesting that after X number of days from the time you get the quest to save Halsin, someone says, "I just learned the gobbos are about to attack. They'll do so in X days, we think." Then you know you have X number of Long Rests left before they attack. And even if you don't do it in that many days, the game's not a failure. You may have not succeeded in accomplishing that mission in time, but the main quest still continues. Shoot! They could even make it so that the tieflings and/or druids still survive if the gobbos attack and you raid the base while they're out.

So what I'm saying is that I'm trying to offer suggestions that create MORE freedom for players. That's the part I don't get. Allowing time sensitive quests allows you to have even more ways to do things in the game. Race to save Halsin before the gobbos attack, or sneak into the base while they are fighting the tieflings and/or druids. You decide how you want the story to go. If you know Lae'zel might leave if you don't get to the Gith in x number of Long Rests, then prioritize that quest and get there because you don't want her to leave the party, OR, if you don't care that much about her being in the party, ignore her demands. Right now. Lae'zel is just a nag about getting to the creche and she doesn't follow it up with action if you never go there. Same with Wyll and the gobbos. It's about prioritizing what you want to prioritize and playing the way you want, giving you MORE options. It is meant to give MORE flavor to the game, giving you more endings based on decisions you make.

Roleplaying is all about molding the story based on your decisions. Right now, there are only two decisions that affect the story. Long rest a lot and develop characters and story or long rest very little and miss out on it all. No matter how fast or slow I go, it doesn't matter. My choices don't really matter. I'm moving towards either being good and killing gobbos or working with them and killing tieflings and druids. That's it. No deviations.

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THANK YOU! While this discussion is robust, aren't we kind of forgetting that this is an EA game. We don't even know what the true aim of the main quest is at this point in Chapter 1. Plus the devs want us to discover this very point even as we learn their version of this BG game. I simply suspend belief (point of the game, right?) and reel in the clues as I hook them. Meaning my "feelings" about where I am in the quest to resolve my condition changes as I play the game. I'm sure at least some of the concerns voiced here will be addressed as the game moves ever onward towards release.

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Maybe you're right. Maybe they are implementing time sensitive events already. During my most recent gaming, is spotted Ed and his siblings, but I didn't trigger dialogue with them. I did something else, Ended Day and found Ed dead all alone. His siblings were gone. I never had tus dialogue with his siblings.

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I thought the film, The Godfather, was a terrific film.

I sat down to read the book, and after 15 attempts, I still could not get past the first few pages - I simply did not enjoy the writing style, pacing and word choice.

That did not make it a bad book - it simply was not my cup of tea. I certainly was not going to tell the author to rewrite his book. Plenty of other people enjoyed it immensely.

Larian is writing a "book", Baldur's Gate 3. If you dislike the writing style, pacing, characterization and so on of their "book", the answer isn't to demand they rewrite the book.

The answer is, put the book aside, and move on to a book that meets your preferences.

I for one want to read Larian's book, not the book I would choose to write if I myself was writing it.

It is their story to tell, and if I find the story to be boring, to have poor characterization, to have a ridiculous plot, I will have the option of putting the book down, and reading a different book.

This entire argument is inane at this point - the OP stated why he dislikes the story. Other folks have stated why they have no problem with the story logic.

Debates over whether the OP is correct, or those with differing opinions are correct are of ZERO merit - because you are not discussing mechanics, you are simply debating whether the story told meets your particular tastes, and nobody needs to defend their "taste" just as nobody should have another persons tastes "forced" on them as being the "right ones".

Alternate mechanic proposals are always welcome - and some of those made by the OP may be of merit - but the justification for these proposals should not be "because I personally dislike the plot/mythology/pacing of the story. "

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Sigh. It was suggestions I thought would make the game better. It's early access. That's what we're supposed to do. This is not like a story already written. The author is still writing it. That's the difference.

I LOVE this game. I LOVE the story. I just thought it could be more exciting if they limited long rests a bit by having different consequences if you used too many because that would make sense based on story content. That's all. Different endings based on how you play the game, and not making players rest every 5 minutes to have character development.

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I assure you the Godfather book is not a good book. Francis Ford Coppola himself, who adapted it into a screenplay, described it as trashy schlock. The movie is infinitely better.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Sigh. It was suggestions I thought would make the game better. It's early access. That's what we're supposed to do. This is not like a story already written. The author is still writing it. That's the difference.

I LOVE this game. I LOVE the story. I just thought it could be more exciting if they limited long rests a bit by having different consequences if you used too many because that would make sense based on story content. That's all. Different endings based on how you play the game, and not making players rest every 5 minutes to have character development.
The story is almost certainly complete. They might tweak it here and there but they are no way rewriting the whole thing.

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You should get the dreams just the same if you don't use the tadpole powers. It's a very sensible option to try to keep the parasite as passive as possible until you can get rid of it. But not getting these scenes punishes the player for thinking smart.

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The story is almost certainly complete. They might tweak it here and there but they are no way rewriting the whole thing.

Are you sure about that? They might rewrite the whole thing if GM4Him is unhappy.

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Originally Posted by Ankou
I assure you the Godfather book is not a good book. Francis Ford Coppola himself, who adapted it into a screenplay, described it as trashy schlock. The movie is infinitely better.

My personal tastes agree with yours - but there ARE folks who thought otherwise - as I recall it was on best seller lists for some time.

I was also never able to make it through the the original novel Planet of the Apes was based on - but in that case, I assumed it was loss in translation between the original French and English versions.

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Any GREAT story that Larian has with BG3 is auto-destroyed by the cinematic dialogues. Thats my opinion on the matter. Start of EA up to now.
Its cringy, bad acting, weird faces/poses, weird timing, not necessary for many <basic> dialogues etc etc etc....pretty graphics though...Its perfect for the 10 to 25 demographic, so cant blame them.
If BG3 wants to be a movie like experience, they should of just made the game a telltale game.

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Originally Posted by MrSam
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The story is almost certainly complete. They might tweak it here and there but they are no way rewriting the whole thing.

Are you sure about that? They might rewrite the whole thing if GM4Him is unhappy.

Why the sarcasm? I thought EA was for giving our opinions on how we think the game could be better. I started this post to offer a suggestion. If they don't like it, Im fine with it.

Now it's turned into people getting all mad and hurt and acting like Im stomping my feet like a kid. I'm sorry if I offended any or hurt any with my comments. If I could just remove the entire thread I would at this point. The whole thing is so out of hand, and any changes I may have thought were cool are so not worth it it this point.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by MrSam
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The story is almost certainly complete. They might tweak it here and there but they are no way rewriting the whole thing.

Are you sure about that? They might rewrite the whole thing if GM4Him is unhappy.

Why the sarcasm? I thought EA was for giving our opinions on how we think the game could be better. I started this post to offer a suggestion. If they don't like it, Im fine with it.

Now it's turned into people getting all mad and hurt and acting like Im stomping my feet like a kid. I'm sorry if I offended any or hurt any with my comments. If I could just remove the entire thread I would at this point. The whole thing is so out of hand, and any changes I may have thought were cool are so not worth it it this point.
Why are you apologizing? The point of your thread is very valid and you have made your arguments very well. Never ever give in to that one or two individuals who try to derail/destroy any attempt at discussion if the discussion involves even the slightest criticism of BG3 or Larian.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Why the sarcasm? I thought EA was for giving our opinions on how we think the game could be better. I started this post to offer a suggestion. If they don't like it, Im fine with it.

Now it's turned into people getting all mad and hurt and acting like Im stomping my feet like a kid. I'm sorry if I offended any or hurt any with my comments. If I could just remove the entire thread I would at this point. The whole thing is so out of hand, and any changes I may have thought were cool are so not worth it it this point.

I don't know man, I'm just tired of people complaining and arguing about everything. I thought it would be fun to talk to other Baldur's Gate fans while I wait for the full game but as soon I registered to this forum I realized that nothing else happens here but petty arguing and complaining. I guess I just wait for the game alone and play it alone and keep my sanity.

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