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Title says it all. Let me have character development as I travel with characters. If a dialogue makes more sense only in camp, make it happen in camp the next time I go there. Right now, I miss dialogue unless I End Day a lot. If I don't End Day when the game indicates that a dialogue is available, the dialogue is not there when I actually do End Day.

Example: Gale's Mirror Image Dialogue, which is fun. Unless I End Day when the Tutorial tells me to, just after fighting devourers with Shadowheart, Gale's Mirror Image dialogue never triggers. Instead, when I do End Day, I get his Go to Hell dialogue. Both are fun, and I'd like to experience both when I play the game.

So maybe, instead, Gale's Mirror Image Dialogue is the first one I have with him the first time I End Day regardless of when I End Day. The next time I End Day and talk to him, I get the Go to Hell dialogue, etc.

Same with ALL dialogues at camp.

You could also make these dialogues available whenever I go to camp, rather than just End Day, so that if I go to camp to switch party members, etc., the dialogue is available.

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You know, it happened to Astarion in my last playthrough and it broke all of his dialogue. In some situations he's simply did not react like everyone else, because this dialogue was transferred to the next day. Perhaps it is not so easy to do this because of some "special" situations must respond to. For example, a party or the use of a tadpole. These scenes should happen for everyone on the same day, but if you reschedule the previous ones, something may go wrong.

Now I am also not very happy with the system of dialogues in the camp. It would be nice if dialogues appeared outside camp or in camp but without sleep. We can move to camp in middle of day, right? For some situations, we don't need night, so it would be a good option. We just need to make some kind of "signal" so that we know that a dialog has appeared.


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You allready mentioned it in several threats ...
And create another one will not make it good idea. :-/


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Again. You think its not a good idea?

I decided to put these in their own separate threads because on the other thread people are focusing too much in one thing I said instead of on each item. This one is swallowed up by all the fighting over whether there is urgency in the narrative.

Last edited by GM4Him; 20/03/21 03:01 AM.
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Obviously ...
I mean im not even exactly sure how dialogues works so far, since i keep reading about people missing this one or that one ... but i still somehow manage to have them all, or more likely manage to not even realize that i missed some. laugh

I certainly not quite like the idea of talking everytime we get to camp, but im not exactly agaist it ... as long as we are talking about those companions who are just camping there anyway. :-/
But it sounds like much less good idea for the others, since then our companions will demand imediate return to camp, just so we can talk. :-/

Try to imagine the situation:
- You just finished fight against some bunch of goblins, or gnolls, or w/e ...
- Gale wants to talk to you ...
- So you gather your things, and go to camp ...
- There Gale summons his mirror image and start to admire himself, not care about you at all ... O_o

Or another one:
- You just finished fight against some bunch of goblins, or gnolls, or w/e ...
- Gale wants to talk to you ...
- So you gather your things, and go to camp ...
- There Gale asks you how did you like his Stew (or w/e he was cooking) ... O_o

Or final one:
- You just finished fight against some bunch of goblins, or gnolls, or w/e ...
- Gale wants to talk to you ...
- So you gather your things, and go to camp ...
- There Gale just stares to fire and tells you to "Go to hell" ... laugh

As it is right now it makes perfect sence to me ...
Day is intense, we focus on our curent problem all the time, and dont disctract oureselves with other matters.
Night (or evening if you wish) on the other hand, is easy time, we are resting, we have time to think and talk.

I agree it would be nice, if our companions say something like "i would like talk to you before we go sleep today" and maybe either some indicator that you have conversation pending before you go to sleep, or posibility to talk with our companions in the morning after sleep would be nice.
But i dont like the idea of interupting our traveling just bcs we just gathered enough aproval, so our companion have sudently something to say. :-/


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I want to have those companion talks in more exciting locations than the boring base camp I always have to go back to for some reason.

Set up camp in an abandoned Wizard's tower in the Underdark and talk to Gale about the Weave there.

Light up the furnace in the underground temple and talk to your companions by the fire.

Jeez how boring the forced camp is, actually.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
<snip>
As it is right now it makes perfect sence to me ...
Day is intense, we focus on our curent problem all the time, and dont disctract oureselves with other matters.
Night (or evening if you wish) on the other hand, is easy time, we are resting, we have time to think and talk.

I agree it would be nice, if our companions say something like "i would like talk to you before we go sleep today" and maybe either some indicator that you have conversation pending before you go to sleep, or posibility to talk with our companions in the morning after sleep would be nice.
But i dont like the idea of interupting our traveling just bcs we just gathered enough aproval, so our companion have sudently something to say. :-/
The thing is, so much of the day is filled with walking around between places (either seen by the player or not, because long resting just returns you to wherever you were when you hit the button) - most of it doesn't feel that intense. I would love to have some interaction to break up all of the walking around. They try to do that with little bits of banter, but why not just interject the cut scenes when you're out on the road? They could have some combination of "we need to talk tonight", "we need to talk right now", and things that could also pop up at any of a number of designated spots on the map that tend to indicate you're walking between places rather than being in the thick of things.

And some of the things that your companions want to say don't make any sense at all for them to wait; certainly not until nighttime. Wyll should be furious when you agree to help Minthara - not after you finish killing all of the tieflings. He should ask you right away (or once Minthara is out of earshot) what your intentions are and, if you say that you're going to help Minthara, immediately leave the group, warn the tieflings, and fight on their side. You could tell him that you're actually planning to betray Minthara (which might involve a persuasion or deception check, depending on your intention) and then he'd play along. Even if that conversation didn't happen right then - if he's there when you turn on the tieflings, there's a high chance that he turns on you and joins them. Waiting until you're at the party afterwards feels incredibly wrong.

I'm in the group that tries to long rest as infrequently as possible because it feels like there should be more mechanical urgency to match the story. It means that I get very few of the bigger conversations with other party members and it feels wrong.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
Wyll should be furious when you agree to help Minthara - not after you finish killing all of the tieflings. He should ask you right away (or once Minthara is out of earshot) what your intentions are and, if you say that you're going to help Minthara, immediately leave the group, warn the tieflings, and fight on their side. You could tell him that you're actually planning to betray Minthara (which might involve a persuasion or deception check, depending on your intention) and then he'd play along.

Wait, hold on. I remember having exactly this conversation with Wyll, at exactly the point you mention, including the option to tell him you're setting Minthara up (which is what I was doing). Have you played that scene since the last patch?

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Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
Originally Posted by grysqrl
Wyll should be furious when you agree to help Minthara - not after you finish killing all of the tieflings. He should ask you right away (or once Minthara is out of earshot) what your intentions are and, if you say that you're going to help Minthara, immediately leave the group, warn the tieflings, and fight on their side. You could tell him that you're actually planning to betray Minthara (which might involve a persuasion or deception check, depending on your intention) and then he'd play along.

Wait, hold on. I remember having exactly this conversation with Wyll, at exactly the point you mention, including the option to tell him you're setting Minthara up (which is what I was doing). Have you played that scene since the last patch?
I haven't played in a while, so this is based on remembering from patch 2 or 3. That was just an example - if that's what they've done in this case, that's great! Companions should be reacting to things as they happen as much as is possible/practical.

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Originally Posted by grysqrl
"we need to talk right now"
When companions wants to talk "right now" they just get huge yellow "!" marker abowe their head ...
So ... that is kinda allready there.

Originally Posted by grysqrl
And some of the things that your companions want to say don't make any sense at all for them to wait; certainly not until nighttime. Wyll should be furious when you agree to help Minthara - not after you finish killing all of the tieflings. He should ask you right away (or once Minthara is out of earshot) what your intentions are and, if you say that you're going to help Minthara, immediately leave the group, warn the tieflings, and fight on their side. You could tell him that you're actually planning to betray Minthara (which might involve a persuasion or deception check, depending on your intention) and then he'd play along. Even if that conversation didn't happen right then - if he's there when you turn on the tieflings, there's a high chance that he turns on you and joins them. Waiting until you're at the party afterwards feels incredibly wrong.
This is completely different matter ...
We are talking here about dialogues that ARE happening in camp.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by grysqrl
"we need to talk right now"
When companions wants to talk "right now" they just get huge yellow "!" marker abowe their head ...
So ... that is kinda allready there.

Originally Posted by grysqrl
And some of the things that your companions want to say don't make any sense at all for them to wait; certainly not until nighttime. Wyll should be furious when you agree to help Minthara - not after you finish killing all of the tieflings. He should ask you right away (or once Minthara is out of earshot) what your intentions are and, if you say that you're going to help Minthara, immediately leave the group, warn the tieflings, and fight on their side. You could tell him that you're actually planning to betray Minthara (which might involve a persuasion or deception check, depending on your intention) and then he'd play along. Even if that conversation didn't happen right then - if he's there when you turn on the tieflings, there's a high chance that he turns on you and joins them. Waiting until you're at the party afterwards feels incredibly wrong.
This is completely different matter ...
We are talking here about dialogues that ARE happening in camp.
My point is that not every dialog needs to happen in camp at night - most of them probably shouldn't. Some are small things that can happen on the road as you're walking around. Some of them should happen during short rests. A few of them (like the Wyll thing) should happen immediately. And some can happen during long rests.

Right now, all of these things are happening only during long rests, which means that people that are playing as though there is some urgency and trying not to rest a lot are missing out on a lot of the group development. It also means that the consequence of an action might be temporally removed from the cause if you go a long time without long resting; it feels wrong.

I'm arguing that story moments should be spread out more to come up closer to when the thing that caused them happens - not just during long rests.

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Yes. And my point has always been that End Day means almost 24 hours goes by. It isn't just 8 hours like it should be based on 5e rules.

So the problem I have is when the game forces me to long rest for almost 24 hours for absolutely no reason other than to have a conversation with a party member.

If it has to happen at camp for some reason, at least make it so that players can trigger the dialogue by fast travel to camp instead of End Day.

If it only makes sense to trigger at End Day, like Astarion trying to bite you while you sleep, that makes sense and should of course be only triggered at the end of the day. Otherwise, doesn't make sense.

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Well, so far you manage to give us one example, and you were imediatly told that example is working exactly as you expected it. O_o

So i really dont see your problem.


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I gave an example of when it works. Yes. Don't want that to change.

When doesn't it work? I land on the beach. I meet Shadowheart. I fight devourers, Tutorial teaches about End Day. If I don't End Day right then, I never trigger Gale's Mirror Image dialogue. I barely did anything, might be full health with full spell slots, but game makes me End Day or miss dialogue.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Well, so far you manage to give us one example, and you were imediatly told that example is working exactly as you expected it. O_o

So i really dont see your problem.
My problem is that I miss most of the story moments because the plot of the game is set up to discourage long rests while the mechanics are set up to encourage long rests. Consequentially, I don't have a ton of examples, because I don't get to see them. One, off the top of my head is Gale's looking at his own mirror image thing. There's no reason that this needs to happen at night. It probably shouldn't happen while you're in transit, but it could totally come up during a short rest. I assume there are other scenes like this. Why make them all only come up only during long rests, where they are competing for space and so you end up losing out on story moments? Pepper them in throughout the game.

If I'm out wandering around with people, I'm talking to them the whole time. Why is it that in this game, most of those discussions are reserved for when we get back to camp at night? It doesn't make sense and it means that people are missing out on story.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
When doesn't it work? I land on the beach. I meet Shadowheart. I fight devourers, Tutorial teaches about End Day. If I don't End Day right then, I never trigger Gale's Mirror Image dialogue. I barely did anything, might be full health with full spell slots, but game makes me End Day or miss dialogue.

I never end my day there and I always get the mirror image cutscene. I usually rest once after completing the overgrown ruins and once after the grove fight + underground passage + harpies and always get both the "go to hell" and "mirror image" cutscenes as long as I don't talk to Nettie, which would trigger Raphael and override the mirror image scene.

While I do agree that some convos that currently only occur at end of day could happen along the way (e.g. Wyll's convo about seeing Tav fight at the grove gate) I believe that the "go to hell" and the "mirror image" scenes only make sense at the end of the first and second day.

I also don't like the idea of going back to camp every time someone has something to say. It's already bad enough having to go back there at the end of the day. It would be nice if short rests could be turned into something more than a quick way to heal/reset skills and could give you the chance to catch up with companion convos you triggered while adventuring.

Last edited by Kajsentlyha; 21/03/21 07:36 PM.
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I also don't like it when characters say they want to call it a day just because a convo can be triggered. To me, a natural first Long Rest should be after the Dank Crypt. Anything before that seems too soon. You barely did anything. What is that? An hour at most of the day to land on the beach, roam about, meet some people, and explore a dungeon that isn't that big. Characters shouldn't be tired and needing a rest just after facing a few mercs.

That's why I think each long rest should also be only 8 hours with 2 long rests a day. That makes more sense. I might rest 8 hours twice before the Druids grove but not 2 days.

So Raphael is a perfect example. I am currently doing a playthrough where I haven't long rested at all because I haven't needed to. Im at the druids grove. Im going to meet Nettie. So not Gale Dialogues for me. I miss them entirely because I played well and didn't End Day after playing maybe an hour.

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Originally Posted by Kajsentlyha
It would be nice if short rests could be turned into something more than a quick way to heal/reset skills and could give you the chance to catch up with companion convos you triggered while adventuring.
This is basically the answer right here. By making short rests into a mini-instance you triple the chance to proc conversations, increase incentive to take short rests rather than long rest every encounter through the game, and can give them some in-game relevance like using rations or whatever. As things stand it's way too easy to miss too much content, which basically boils down to wasted dev time and effort. They've worked so hard to make these interactions really interesting and compelling, but I have over 100hrs now in-game and I don't think I've seen more than half in any single playthrough. That sucks, both for players and for creators.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
If I don't End Day right then,
I never did ...
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I never trigger Gale's Mirror Image dialogue.
I allways had. O_o

And concidering other comemtaries, im not the only one. O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
I barely did anything, might be full health with full spell slots, but game makes me End Day or miss dialogue.
See and that is the problem ...
Game provides you mechanics, you refuse to use them, game even tells you that you SHOULD use them, you ignore that either ... and then you dont like the outcome. :-/
In fact whole game (maybe except two, three fights) can be done without spending single spellslot.

You call that "good roleplay" ... and all you see is your HP and number of used spellslosts ...
Your character just woke up after being abducked by aliens, survived flyting through hell, escaped that ship and multiple times fight bunch of brain-tentacle-claw beasts ...
If that is not enough to demand a little rest, i really dont know what is. laugh

Originally Posted by grysqrl
Consequentially, I don't have a ton of examples, because I don't get to see them. One, off the top of my head is Gale's looking at his own mirror image thing. There's no reason that this needs to happen at night.
Next time i shall answer for this argument, i start quoting myself ...
But lets repeat. laugh

There is reason for this to happens at night, during day your characters are solving most pressing matters, at evening (or night if you wish) they have free time, therefore there is enought space for reading, thinking, playing with githyanki toys, and talking.
Its just that word people uses so often around here to justify their own opinions ... its imersion. laugh

Originally Posted by grysqrl
It probably shouldn't happen while you're in transit, but it could totally come up during a short rest.
I dont quite see how ...

Either you would need to return to camp for every short rest ... wich sounds both ridiculous and anoying.
Or you would risk stucking gale, or his mirror image in other obejcts ...
Also if you see it from purely RP perspective, it also does not make sence ... just imagine, you just finished fighting the goblins, decide to rest ... and sudently Gale instead of resting decide to spend his spellslot to summon his own mirror image so he can admire himself? laugh

Originally Posted by grysqrl
I assume there are other scenes like this. Why make them all only come up only during long rests, where they are competing for space and so you end up losing out on story moments?
Dunno, maybe ... possibly ... probably ...
But that could be also resolved by simply allowing players to have multiple conversations in row instead of only the last one. O_o


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Originally Posted by GM4Him
To me, a natural first Long Rest should be after the Dank Crypt.

That's exactly where I do my first long rest and get the go to hell scene. The problem is the mirror image scene can easily be missed if you:

- speak to Zorru > triggers Astarion cutscene
- speak to Sazza > triggers Shadowheart cutscene
- trigger Gale's reveal in some way (I still have no clue what triggers it, I miss it most of the time so I could be wrong about this one)
- speak to Nettie > triggers Raphael's cutscene
- find the dead boar/find Edowin (not sure exactly what's the trigger, but when I go beyond the underground passage I usually miss the mirror image scene, so I rest before I go there...)

Most players will probably trigger the first three or four cutscenes on the same day (and very likely also the fourth), which means that they will never see the first two (possibly three).
End of day cutscenes should be queued, they shouldn't override one another. I also don't see why Astarion's and Shadowheart's cutscenes can't be available at the same time once you trigger them. Why should one override the other? There's no reason why I shouldn't be able to speak to both on the same night. And if some cutscenes do need to take precedence (e.g. tadpole sickness cutscene) the others should just be postponed to the next long rest. But since, as things stand, even the queue could get too long, it would be best to have some of these cutscenes happen along the way, preferably during short rests.

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