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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Oh I know that. But I will argue the longer a developer delays a game, the expectations rise sometimes to unattainable levels like say Cyberpunk.

I was just shocked how unbalanced this game is at this point in development. And it seems Larian isn’t swimming in funds or they wouldn’t have started EA this early.

And of course buying this early is my choice. I didn’t say I wasn’t going to buy it because I have buyers remorse. I meant I regret buying this early into EA when BG3 clearly has way more than a year before launch.
Understandable, but remember that Larian was not/is not a AAA studio with the finance, infrastructure and resourcing that brings.

Divinity brought them success and market presence but BG3 is arguably their big break. They've tripled their workforce off the back of it and you can bet that has changed their ambitions for the project. I don't doubt they intended a year in EA but between high EA sales and coronavirus the scope of the project is a lot greater than was conceivable in November.

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Originally Posted by Elessaria666
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Oh I know that. But I will argue the longer a developer delays a game, the expectations rise sometimes to unattainable levels like say Cyberpunk.

I was just shocked how unbalanced this game is at this point in development. And it seems Larian isn’t swimming in funds or they wouldn’t have started EA this early.

And of course buying this early is my choice. I didn’t say I wasn’t going to buy it because I have buyers remorse. I meant I regret buying this early into EA when BG3 clearly has way more than a year before launch.
Understandable, but remember that Larian was not/is not a AAA studio with the finance, infrastructure and resourcing that brings.

Divinity brought them success and market presence but BG3 is arguably their big break. They've tripled their workforce off the back of it and you can bet that has changed their ambitions for the project. I don't doubt they intended a year in EA but between high EA sales and coronavirus the scope of the project is a lot greater than was conceivable in November.

Sure. All developers, even AAA ones have to manage budgets. But it’s hard for me to accept that this game is so far behind because of lack of funds. I think it’s just them choosing the prioritize certain things over others.

I don’t think Larian cared too much about combat mechanics or just gameplay mechanics in general. You can see it. They just copy pasted DOS and made some changes to sorta match 5e but it’s a sloppy job.

What they did spend a ton of money on is the voice acting and graphics. They went all out on that. BG3 is a very pretty dating simulator. It just makes for a very shallow game and I’m disappointed to say the least. It’s a shame really.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Originally Posted by Elessaria666
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I bought EA thinking it will last roughly a year give or take a couple of months. But knowing what I know now, I’m surprised Larian opened up EA this early. I regret buying this early.

Combat is completely unbalanced. The UI is a mess. Many of the core classes and races are not implemented yet. Larian should have waited till this coming summer to launch EA.

I think we won’t see the official launch until mid 2022 at the earliest. I hope I’m wrong.
One of the reasons games have EA is to fund extended development. Without EA Larian would not have been able to expand their workforce or add all the content to the game they want to. Buying EA is the same as buying the finished game. Playing the EA is entirely your choice, and not doing so loses you nothing in terms of the final release. Even using low-end figures EA has brought in $30-40m dollars of funding to make BG3 the best it can be. I think Autumn 2022 is more likely, with a class added every 8-10 weeks, then multi-classing for 15-20 weeks, and maybe level 5 and the rest of Act 1 unlocked just before release to get data for final polish.



I was just shocked how unbalanced this game is at this point in development. And it seems Larian isn’t swimming in funds or they wouldn’t have started EA this early.
Wouldn't bet on that. Larian has around 400 employees now, what makes them one of the biggest studios (studios, not companies btw) in the business. For the sake of comparison, Bioware post EA had around 320 employees.

I'm also worried for the current state of EA. To me, 4 years of development should've amounted to much more than it is now. I also don't like their apparent direction to divert heavily from the rules to make the game more similar to DOS.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Oh I know that. But I will argue the longer a developer delays a game, the expectations rise sometimes to unattainable levels like say Cyberpunk.

I was just shocked how unbalanced this game is at this point in development. And it seems Larian isn’t swimming in funds or they wouldn’t have started EA this early.

And of course buying this early is my choice. I didn’t say I wasn’t going to buy it because I have buyers remorse. I meant I regret buying this early into EA when BG3 clearly has way more than a year before launch.
I think this is true only if the game keeps getting delayed. Personally, even if the release date is late 2022, I won't actually consider the game "delayed" as there's been no official release date announcement yet.
On the Steam page, Larian says they expect to be in Early Access for "at least one year...it'll be ready when it's ready." They don't say it'll be ready in around or exactly a year.

Cyberpunk's problem was the combination of multiple official delays, the long time in production after first announcement (like 5+ years), and finally the release of an laughably buggy product.
-Larian has already avoided the 2nd and 3rd problem by releasing a EA only a year and a half(?) after they first announced it, and after a few updates it is already less buggy than Cyberpunk was on last gen consoles
-As long as the game releases within 6 months of when Larian first states the official release will be, there's much less worry of the same hype that CP2077 got.
-Finally, there will just be less hype because BG3 is basically already out. There's less mystery and potential for build-up as people can actually see what gameplay/story is like.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
I think this is true only if the game keeps getting delayed. Personally, even if the release date is late 2022, I won't actually consider the game "delayed" as there's been no official release date announcement yet.
On the Steam page, Larian says they expect to be in Early Access for "at least one year...it'll be ready when it's ready." They don't say it'll be ready in around or exactly a year.

Cyberpunk's problem was the combination of multiple official delays, the long time in production after first announcement (like 5+ years), and finally the release of an laughably buggy product.
-Larian has already avoided the 2nd and 3rd problem by releasing a EA only a year and a half(?) after they first announced it, and after a few updates it is already less buggy than Cyberpunk was on last gen consoles
-As long as the game releases within 6 months of when Larian first states the official release will be, there's much less worry of the same hype that CP2077 got.
-Finally, there will just be less hype because BG3 is basically already out. There's less mystery and potential for build-up as people can actually see what gameplay/story is like.

Again, I understand my error. I should have waited till later in the EA.

“At least one year...it’ll be ready when it’s ready.” is business speak. It kinda dangles the idea that the game will be ready in roughly a year but then they cover their butts with the second clause. But as a consumer it is my job to know this.

Wasn’t BG3 supposed to go live Oct 2020, not just EA? I’m not criticizing them for delays but isn’t the game already delayed?

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I don't believe there was any indication that the game was supposed to fully release in October of last year. From my own following of events (I got caught up early on in the hype, still kinda hyped), the plan was to open up EA a bit earlier than October 2020, but due to COVID and other issues like flooding at the offices, it was pushed back. I'm not sure if you could really call that a delay in release since it is just EA.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Again, I understand my error. I should have waited till later in the EA.

“At least one year...it’ll be ready when it’s ready.” is business speak. It kinda dangles the idea that the game will be ready in roughly a year but then they cover their butts with the second clause. But as a consumer it is my job to know this.

Wasn’t BG3 supposed to go live Oct 2020, not just EA? I’m not criticizing them for delays but isn’t the game already delayed?
I'm curious, why do you think you should have waited? You'll still have access to the game a year from now, so you've only benefitted from buying it now instead of later...unless you actively disliked your time playing it?

I'm almost 100% certain it wasn't supposed to be fully released Oct 2020. I believe EA was originally supposed to launch in late September 2020, but it got delayed for like 2 weeks. So yes, there was a delay, but it was a pretty small one all things considered.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by spectralhunter
Again, I understand my error. I should have waited till later in the EA.

“At least one year...it’ll be ready when it’s ready.” is business speak. It kinda dangles the idea that the game will be ready in roughly a year but then they cover their butts with the second clause. But as a consumer it is my job to know this.

Wasn’t BG3 supposed to go live Oct 2020, not just EA? I’m not criticizing them for delays but isn’t the game already delayed?
I'm curious, why do you think you should have waited? You'll still have access to the game a year from now, so you've only benefitted from buying it now instead of later...unless you actively disliked your time playing it?

I'm almost 100% certain it wasn't supposed to be fully released Oct 2020. I believe EA was originally supposed to launch in late September 2020, but it got delayed for like 2 weeks. So yes, there was a delay, but it was a pretty small one all things considered.

I don’t want to be a paying (not paid) tester. Sure EA is for bugs and minor changes but at its current state, I don’t think it should have entered EA. Personally, EA shouldn’t be longer than a year. Six months is ideal to get the kinks out and build up hype.

Hype shouldn’t last almost two years. And developers shouldn’t expect paying customers to test their game for major changes. And if BG3 requires only minor changes, there’s no excuse to keep it in EA for almost two years.

I think as gamers we put up with way too much with developer antics.

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Originally Posted by spectralhunter
I don’t want to be a paying (not paid) tester. Sure EA is for bugs and minor changes but at its current state, I don’t think it should have entered EA. Personally, EA shouldn’t be longer than a year. Six months is ideal to get the kinks out and build up hype.

Hype shouldn’t last almost two years. And developers shouldn’t expect paying customers to test their game for major changes. And if BG3 requires only minor changes, there’s no excuse to keep it in EA for almost two years.

I think as gamers we put up with way too much with developer antics.
I wouldn't say we're paying testers. We paid for the game and will get full access when it releases. It's more of a pre-order with the option to play (and test) it early as a volunteer tester.

But I understand your point. EAs should either* be short and focused on bug-fixing, or long and involve communication with the EA players and possibly big changes to the game based on said discussions. And, unfortunately, BG3 EA is seeming like it will be very long but focused mainly on bug fixing and releasing content that would be put in the main game anyway. Honestly, Larian probably could have waited 6 months to release EA, released with the Druid class, and not really lost any EA efficiency.

*In a perfect world, EAs are both short and involve discussions with players leading to big changes, but these situations are rare. I won't mention the game-that-must-not-be-named as a good example of such an EA.

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11 zones currently exist on the main map so accounting for that we have gotten to see 2 of those zones...so that means were still missing around 9 on the existing map.

Second point someone saying class content doesn't matter to some people that is one of the largest reasons that people got the game. Was the promised class content on launch to include all classes and subclasses in the 5e phb as well as all races. Weather that matters to you to several people or not means very little as it matters to some of the people who purchased the game on the content promised when the initial plans for live release were given. As well as it may not matter to several people because maybe they already got the class they wanted in the game but there are people still want those classes or subclasses not yet included in the game. There are people who will not buy the game until they are included even because the class / race they enjoy currently is not available. Its a very valid arguement to have them all included as well as multiclassing as was originally planned and mercenary options again originally planned as it matters. 11 zones existing is more than enough content for initial launch considering players have access to 2 of those zones and not even the full zone for the underdark. 11 zones is a lot of content to play through if your intending to play through all the content and while I personally do not expect to see that all initally in early access. I would like to see us get access to levels 5/6 and all the classes / races in early access. As they said they wanted the content tested and it should be. I am hoping we see news coming out soon as to Patch 5.0 Plans and another class as were getting in that range druid was the first real addition to the game and I would hope were not 4-5 months from druid before we see the next class added as at that rate it will be like 2024 before the game is full released with there original promise in design.

An ideal patch 5.0 would be 1 class 1 race and level 5/6 to existing classes. Even if they don't add any additional zones and we would see it before the end of april and we should be seeing news soon I would hope. Even if we have a few bugs its not that big of a deal. Right now with an initial planned release for October/September 2021 when game launced we should be seeing classes added every 2 months if they plan to make that dead line.

As an Example - I would not assume it accurate but like
April - Barbarian
June - Paladin
August - Bard
Sept - Sorcerer/Monk

As a delay to the full release could be understandable we should be seeing classes come out at those rates along with additional content / races / levels / abilities for testing. If Single moders can make mods to include those classes and races or close proximities on nexux mods and have all the additional classes and be adding additional subclasses not included in the phb already while not as ideal as what i would expect from Larian I would expect them to be able to release a class every 2 months with 400 actual people able to work on the project. Otherwise I would be reaching out to some of those moders and hiring additional people to make up for poor performance on existing staff.

Don't get me wrong I would expect better results from existing staff however they should already be at the point to match existing mods for classes and just improving those so it shouldn't exactly be hard to make those classes functional in a 2 month per class window.

I would expect them to be adding classes and races each patch at this point as well as additional items I was actually a little disappointed we only saw the druid last patch though glad to see new content. Logically you would be thinking they would have been working on tools to make implimenting classes to the game a lot easier during that time frame. Sadly a lot of the better moders for the game have disappeared at this point not updating existing mods because of poor communication prior to the release of the druid as of late they seem to have been a lot more active on the forums which is a big positive now its a question of will they keep that up or is it going to repeat. Also there are people that do not want to look at installing mods till the full version of the game is released. To avoid re-installing as much as possible as an example or having to remove mods for any reason during early access for patches ect.

So seeing additional classes and races come into early access is important at this point.

Additionally concerning an act 4 / additional game play through content ... as with the fact 20th level isnt expected at full release I would expect we would see those additional levels and that additional content with dlc patches as I expect we will get the artificer probably with DLC content. Since larion would probably with to continue making additional money as would wotc after the games full release and you want to keep the machine going. Getting additional classes / races and content is a good way to push that as well as will keep people busy after release while its being developed.

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Originally Posted by acatlas
11 zones currently exist on the main map so accounting for that we have gotten to see 2 of those zones...so that means were still missing around 9 on the existing map.

Second point someone saying class content doesn't matter to some people that is one of the largest reasons that people got the game. Was the promised class content on launch to include all classes and subclasses in the 5e phb as well as all races. Weather that matters to you to several people or not means very little as it matters to some of the people who purchased the game on the content promised when the initial plans for live release were given. As well as it may not matter to several people because maybe they already got the class they wanted in the game but there are people still want those classes or subclasses not yet included in the game. There are people who will not buy the game until they are included even because the class / race they enjoy currently is not available. Its a very valid arguement to have them all included as well as multiclassing as was originally planned and mercenary options again originally planned as it matters. 11 zones existing is more than enough content for initial launch considering players have access to 2 of those zones and not even the full zone for the underdark. 11 zones is a lot of content to play through if your intending to play through all the content and while I personally do not expect to see that all initally in early access. I would like to see us get access to levels 5/6 and all the classes / races in early access. As they said they wanted the content tested and it should be. I am hoping we see news coming out soon as to Patch 5.0 Plans and another class as were getting in that range druid was the first real addition to the game and I would hope were not 4-5 months from druid before we see the next class added as at that rate it will be like 2024 before the game is full released with there original promise in design.

An ideal patch 5.0 would be 1 class 1 race and level 5/6 to existing classes. Even if they don't add any additional zones and we would see it before the end of april and we should be seeing news soon I would hope. Even if we have a few bugs its not that big of a deal. Right now with an initial planned release for October/September 2021 when game launced we should be seeing classes added every 2 months if they plan to make that dead line.

As an Example - I would not assume it accurate but like
April - Barbarian
June - Paladin
August - Bard
Sept - Sorcerer/Monk

As a delay to the full release could be understandable we should be seeing classes come out at those rates along with additional content / races / levels / abilities for testing. If Single moders can make mods to include those classes and races or close proximities on nexux mods and have all the additional classes and be adding additional subclasses not included in the phb already while not as ideal as what i would expect from Larian I would expect them to be able to release a class every 2 months with 400 actual people able to work on the project. Otherwise I would be reaching out to some of those moders and hiring additional people to make up for poor performance on existing staff.

Don't get me wrong I would expect better results from existing staff however they should already be at the point to match existing mods for classes and just improving those so it shouldn't exactly be hard to make those classes functional in a 2 month per class window.

I would expect them to be adding classes and races each patch at this point as well as additional items I was actually a little disappointed we only saw the druid last patch though glad to see new content. Logically you would be thinking they would have been working on tools to make implimenting classes to the game a lot easier during that time frame. Sadly a lot of the better moders for the game have disappeared at this point not updating existing mods because of poor communication prior to the release of the druid as of late they seem to have been a lot more active on the forums which is a big positive now its a question of will they keep that up or is it going to repeat. Also there are people that do not want to look at installing mods till the full version of the game is released. To avoid re-installing as much as possible as an example or having to remove mods for any reason during early access for patches ect.

So seeing additional classes and races come into early access is important at this point.

Additionally concerning an act 4 / additional game play through content ... as with the fact 20th level isnt expected at full release I would expect we would see those additional levels and that additional content with dlc patches as I expect we will get the artificer probably with DLC content. Since larion would probably with to continue making additional money as would wotc after the games full release and you want to keep the machine going. Getting additional classes / races and content is a good way to push that as well as will keep people busy after release while its being developed.

I'm sorry, but are you sure we're playing an actual client, not a sandbox? Because I'm not. It seems to me that the release client and the EA client are two different clients. So, in fact, many things may already be ready, but Larian does not want to add this things in EA client. For example, zones of the second act are already definitely available, other classes are in files and they were activated with mods.

It seems to me that it is a mistake to think "if this is not in EA, then it is not ready so game will be in 2024". I think there are just two different teams, one is engaged in adding content to EA, and other is engaged in actual client. This was seen on Larian's last stream. The fifth level, a dwarf in the camp, a dog with a glowing collar, and so on.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by acatlas
11 zones currently exist on the main map so accounting for that we have gotten to see 2 of those zones...so that means were still missing around 9 on the existing map.

Second point someone saying class content doesn't matter to some people that is one of the largest reasons that people got the game. Was the promised class content on launch to include all classes and subclasses in the 5e phb as well as all races. Weather that matters to you to several people or not means very little as it matters to some of the people who purchased the game on the content promised when the initial plans for live release were given. As well as it may not matter to several people because maybe they already got the class they wanted in the game but there are people still want those classes or subclasses not yet included in the game. There are people who will not buy the game until they are included even because the class / race they enjoy currently is not available. Its a very valid arguement to have them all included as well as multiclassing as was originally planned and mercenary options again originally planned as it matters. 11 zones existing is more than enough content for initial launch considering players have access to 2 of those zones and not even the full zone for the underdark. 11 zones is a lot of content to play through if your intending to play through all the content and while I personally do not expect to see that all initally in early access. I would like to see us get access to levels 5/6 and all the classes / races in early access. As they said they wanted the content tested and it should be. I am hoping we see news coming out soon as to Patch 5.0 Plans and another class as were getting in that range druid was the first real addition to the game and I would hope were not 4-5 months from druid before we see the next class added as at that rate it will be like 2024 before the game is full released with there original promise in design.

An ideal patch 5.0 would be 1 class 1 race and level 5/6 to existing classes. Even if they don't add any additional zones and we would see it before the end of april and we should be seeing news soon I would hope. Even if we have a few bugs its not that big of a deal. Right now with an initial planned release for October/September 2021 when game launced we should be seeing classes added every 2 months if they plan to make that dead line.

As an Example - I would not assume it accurate but like
April - Barbarian
June - Paladin
August - Bard
Sept - Sorcerer/Monk

As a delay to the full release could be understandable we should be seeing classes come out at those rates along with additional content / races / levels / abilities for testing. If Single moders can make mods to include those classes and races or close proximities on nexux mods and have all the additional classes and be adding additional subclasses not included in the phb already while not as ideal as what i would expect from Larian I would expect them to be able to release a class every 2 months with 400 actual people able to work on the project. Otherwise I would be reaching out to some of those moders and hiring additional people to make up for poor performance on existing staff.

Don't get me wrong I would expect better results from existing staff however they should already be at the point to match existing mods for classes and just improving those so it shouldn't exactly be hard to make those classes functional in a 2 month per class window.

I would expect them to be adding classes and races each patch at this point as well as additional items I was actually a little disappointed we only saw the druid last patch though glad to see new content. Logically you would be thinking they would have been working on tools to make implimenting classes to the game a lot easier during that time frame. Sadly a lot of the better moders for the game have disappeared at this point not updating existing mods because of poor communication prior to the release of the druid as of late they seem to have been a lot more active on the forums which is a big positive now its a question of will they keep that up or is it going to repeat. Also there are people that do not want to look at installing mods till the full version of the game is released. To avoid re-installing as much as possible as an example or having to remove mods for any reason during early access for patches ect.

So seeing additional classes and races come into early access is important at this point.

Additionally concerning an act 4 / additional game play through content ... as with the fact 20th level isnt expected at full release I would expect we would see those additional levels and that additional content with dlc patches as I expect we will get the artificer probably with DLC content. Since larion would probably with to continue making additional money as would wotc after the games full release and you want to keep the machine going. Getting additional classes / races and content is a good way to push that as well as will keep people busy after release while its being developed.

I'm sorry, but are you sure we're playing an actual client, not a sandbox? Because I'm not. It seems to me that the release client and the EA client are two different clients. So, in fact, many things may already be ready, but Larian does not want to add this things in EA client. For example, zones of the second act are already definitely available, other classes are in files and they were activated with mods.

It seems to me that it is a mistake to think "if this is not in EA, then it is not ready so game will be in 2024". I think there are just two different teams, one is engaged in adding content to EA, and other is engaged in actual client. This was seen on Larian's last stream. The fifth level, a dwarf in the camp, a dog with a glowing collar, and so on.

Pretty sure this was said a while back by the devs, sounds really familiar.

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