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Originally Posted by acatlas
If you want to put a better balance to camping and resting a more effective way to do it might it you really wanted to make it not always work out the way you want it might be to have random encounters happen when attempting to return to camp maybe adding several mini encounter maps where a random assortment of npcs may spawn with like a random chance of getting one of those encounters when going to camp. This would give an opportunity for random loot encounters as well but that is just an idea. Not something i could see in early access but it would be a good idea for long version of the game a semi random encounter chance. This could carry over long term in the game to a reasonable value incentive to characters even after the parasite is removed assuming it happens before the end of chapter 2 or along those lines. It could be like a 5% chance of an encounter like that occuring but it would make for an interesting situation where using your short rests and long rests matter more and planning your thoughts on when to do so meaning more. But its just a thought.

Random encounters are a bad idea or they are easy enough that the player is able to deal with them when they are half-alive, which means that they are only a waste of time or are so dangerous that they can easily kill a team that has been badly injured, which further encourages you to rest after each fight .
Of course, it doesn't matter as long as you can do the quick save + quick load combination before each rest and people will end up getting irritated and loading the game until they finally have a rest like in older games.
Random encounters are a really bad idea that will do much more harm than good.

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Current resting system is totally unacceptable. I am sure this was already discussed to death, but such awesomely designed levels as Underdark suffer the most from it. A moment ago you was surrounded by danger but simply push the button and you are safe.


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Originally Posted by VenusP
... A moment ago you was surrounded by danger but simply push the button and you are safe.
+1

Last edited by Baraz; 29/04/21 10:03 PM.
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Random encounters has been proposed, but ultimately I think it would just bog the game down and not really solve all the issues with Long Rest and the fact that the story has already put time limits on things.

In telling you, the only solution is to implement some sort of timed events that explain why the druids don't finish the ritual, and why the goblins don't attack not matter how many long rests you use. It least if the do timed events triggered by too many long rests, they can explain why these things havent happened and provide some additional side quests and such for "taking too long". Side quest complications would make it more interesting and fun.

But if you do this, you gotta reward players still for NOT spamming long rests. In this way both are rewarded, just in different ways.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Random encounters has been proposed, but ultimately I think it would just bog the game down and not really solve all the issues with Long Rest and the fact that the story has already put time limits on things.

In telling you, the only solution is to implement some sort of timed events that explain why the druids don't finish the ritual, and why the goblins don't attack not matter how many long rests you use. It least if the do timed events triggered by too many long rests, they can explain why these things havent happened and provide some additional side quests and such for "taking too long". Side quest complications would make it more interesting and fun.

But if you do this, you gotta reward players still for NOT spamming long rests. In this way both are rewarded, just in different ways.

Except the story removes that time limit immediately in regards to the parasite. And I think time limits will bog the game down in a different way cause then you reward people for never long resting and not engaging with the camp activities, there needs to be a balance where players don't or can't long rest after every encounter but also players can long rest when needed and actually are able to engage with events and activities in the camp. And also to certain players time limits just don't feel liek they would fit BG3 and if added will actually detract from the experience and become too restricting.
I do agree there should be side quest complications, but I think they should be tied to events that are clearly related and not to X Long Rests.

Last edited by CJMPinger; 30/04/21 01:14 AM.
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True but i also think that short rests are just as important, yet they are only spammed for healing which makes me wonder why they even put that feature in the game.

If i had to give a solution to short rests and a stipulation to long rests it would be to make shorts rests in some way more valuable (ie: gives all level 1 spell slots back for short rests or something) and would then make short rest required before long rests. This would incentivize both smart uses of short rest to allow you to have plenty of level 1 spell slots all throughout the fights you encounter while using cantrips to finish off small or annoying mobs, and also limiting long rests until short rests are used up. It would also allow healing with a level 1 spell mid fight on allies who aren’t down not feel like such a waste! Also they could possibly add an “option” to only be able to long rest after you reach a certain distance from enemies (ie: clear out the area you want to rest in) or arrive at a non-hostile area, allowing you to bypass the short rests entirely if you are in a non-hostile area, and would hopefully put more emphasis on saving those rests for when your party really needs those spell slots while also allowing wizards and clerics to feel a bit more magically useful.
IMHO this is a relatively small change that would hopefully make both hardcore dnd players and casual players alike have a more smooth experience. Also the short rests giving level 1 spell slots is already partially in the game (ie: Warlocks), so I don’t believe it would completely change spellcasters, it would mainly improve their flexibility!

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Originally Posted by XxAnonymousxX
True but i also think that short rests are just as important, yet they are only spammed for healing which makes me wonder why they even put that feature in the game.

If i had to give a solution to short rests and a stipulation to long rests it would be to make shorts rests in some way more valuable (ie: gives all level 1 spell slots back for short rests or something) and would then make short rest required before long rests. This would incentivize both smart uses of short rest to allow you to have plenty of level 1 spell slots all throughout the fights you encounter while using cantrips to finish off small or annoying mobs, and also limiting long rests until short rests are used up. It would also allow healing with a level 1 spell mid fight on allies who aren’t down not feel like such a waste! Also they could possibly add an “option” to only be able to long rest after you reach a certain distance from enemies (ie: clear out the area you want to rest in) or arrive at a non-hostile area, allowing you to bypass the short rests entirely if you are in a non-hostile area, and would hopefully put more emphasis on saving those rests for when your party really needs those spell slots while also allowing wizards and clerics to feel a bit more magically useful.
IMHO this is a relatively small change that would hopefully make both hardcore dnd players and casual players alike have a more smooth experience. Also the short rests giving level 1 spell slots is already partially in the game (ie: Warlocks), so I don’t believe it would completely change spellcasters, it would mainly improve their flexibility!

Thing is Short Rests are supposed to be important for many classes. Class features often recharge on Short Rest. Warlocks regain all spell slots on short rest. Wizard can recharge a select few spell slots on short rest. Fighter gets their Action Surge and Second Wind back on short rest. So on and so forth, Short Resting already gives players back the resources it is meant to. However, if players can long rest freely it immediately undoes what a short rest can do cause you already get that back and more via long rest so most don't see a need to click the short rest button. I do agree that there needs to be something that limits the ability for players to long rest freely (also I'd honest just tie the amount Players can short rest to hitdie/level maybe?), but allowing every class to recharge all Level 1 spell slots is a very very large change to the balance for many classes that are sup[posed to be somewhat limited in how many they can cast a day. I do think you have something about how players are in a hostile area, perhaps there could be specific areas on the map where we can go to the camp, and they are most plentiful in Act 1 as players get their bearing but as we progress to more dangerous areas they become fewer and farther between maybe with some areas only having short rest abilities, as in more areas being marked like the area with the hag?

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
[quote=XxAnonymousxX]True but i also think that short rests are just as important, yet they are only spammed for healing which makes me wonder why they even put that feature in the game.

If i had to give a solution to short rests and a stipulation to long rests it would be to make shorts rests in some way more valuable (ie: gives all level 1 spell slots back for short rests or something) and would then make short rest required before long rests. This would incentivize both smart uses of short rest to allow you to have plenty of level 1 spell slots all throughout the fights you encounter while using cantrips to finish off small or annoying mobs, and also limiting long rests until short rests are used up. It would also allow healing with a level 1 spell mid fight on allies who aren’t down not feel like such a waste! Also they could possibly add an “option” to only be able to long rest after you reach a certain distance from enemies (ie: clear out the area you want to rest in) or arrive at a non-hostile area, allowing you to bypass the short rests entirely if you are in a non-hostile area, and would hopefully put more emphasis on saving those rests for when your party really needs those spell slots while also allowing wizards and clerics to feel a bit more magically useful.
IMHO this is a relatively small change that would hopefully make both hardcore dnd players and casual players alike have a more smooth experience. Also the short rests giving level 1 spell slots is already partially in the game (ie: Warlocks), so I don’t believe it would completely change spellcasters, it would mainly improve their flexibility!

Thing is Short Rests are supposed to be important for many classes. Class features often recharge on Short Rest. Warlocks regain all spell slots on short rest. Wizard can recharge a select few spell slots on short rest. Fighter gets their Action Surge and Second Wind back on short rest. So on and so forth, Short Resting already gives players back the resources it is meant to. However, if players can long rest freely it immediately undoes what a short rest can do cause you already get that back and more via long rest so most don't see a need to click the short rest button. I do agree that there needs to be something that limits the ability for players to long rest freely (also I'd honest just tie the amount Players can short rest to hitdie/level maybe?), but allowing every class to recharge all Level 1 spell slots is a very very large change to the balance for many classes that are sup[posed to be somewhat limited in how many they can cast a day. I do think you have something about how players are in a hostile area, perhaps there could be specific areas on the map where we can go to the camp, and they are most plentiful in Act 1 as players get their bearing but as we progress to more dangerous areas they become fewer and farther between maybe with some areas only having short rest abilities, as in more areas being marked like the area with the hag?[/quote
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Thing is Short Rests are supposed to be important for many classes. Class features often recharge on Short Rest. Warlocks regain all spell slots on short rest. Wizard can recharge a select few spell slots on short rest. Fighter gets their Action Surge and Second Wind back on short rest. So on and so forth, Short Resting already gives players back the resources it is meant to. However, if players can long rest freely it immediately undoes what a short rest can do cause you already get that back and more via long rest so most don't see a need to click the short rest button. I do agree that there needs to be something that limits the ability for players to long rest freely (also I'd honest just tie the amount Players can short rest to hitdie/level maybe?), but allowing every class to recharge all Level 1 spell slots is a very very large change to the balance for many classes that are sup[posed to be somewhat limited in how many they can cast a day. I do think you have something about how players are in a hostile area, perhaps there could be specific areas on the map where we can go to the camp, and they are most plentiful in Act 1 as players get their bearing but as we progress to more dangerous areas they become fewer and farther between maybe with some areas only having short rest abilities, as in more areas being marked like the area with the hag?

I agreed that it would change spellcasters and even some other mechanisms in the game but honestly short rests giving lvl 1 spell slots is very minor given that most of the current lvl 1 spells are either rarely used or never used due to the over importance of lvl 2 spell slots and long rests, not to mention that there are only a handful of strong lvl 1 spells in general and even less in the cantrips, Lvl 2 spells and above are where most of the real damage comes into play and i think it make sense to keep those for the most difficult fights. However if this system is a little to much for most people you could even dial it down a notch or 2 depending on how it affects gameplay, but as i said it is already implemented on Warlocks and some other spells and spellcasters so why couldn’t it be implemented on all spellcasters and spells instead, and give the spells who are unaffected by the change a bit of a different buff or ability to make up for the loss in utility. I personally just think that certain spellcasters lack way to much flexibility and need a buff to allow people to use the underused spells more frequently.

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Again, the STORY puts time limits on like everything, but then the mechanics don't follow through. It's not just the tadpole, though that is still the biggest one even after they tell you it's not acting normal.

And Im not talking about Time Limits as in, you have to complete certain quests in 2 hours of gameplay. I'm talking about Timed Events that take place after every x number of Long Rests that buy you, the player, more time to complete the quests because you are taking longer to complete the quests than the story would allow.

Story Time Limits
Tadpole = Unknown, but could start changing ANY DAY, multiple people tell you this

Druid Ritual = just started because Arabella stole the idol. Time limit unknown but ain't gonna last more than a week tops. Anything more than a week would not make sense and even a week is a stretch to me.

Goblins Attack = Aradin leads them to the Grove. Again, they could attack any day, but time limit is unknown. They've been looking for the grove for awhile with a mandate to wipe it put. Assuming they, for some reason, need some time to prepare a full on assault, would it really take more than maybe a week...2 tops?

Lae'zel Wants Cleansing = Unknown time limit, but again, how long do you think she's going to realistically stay with you if you ignore her wanting to get cleansed. It is her number 1 priority, and she is more than happy to tell you this again and again.

There are more, but the point is that there are MANY game elements affected by not limiting long rests. I agree, putting a long rest limit that is too short would ruin the game, and that's why I thought that the timed events idea would fix this.

So, say you dethrone Kahga after only using 2 long rests after you first learn about the ritual. The reward for completing the quests in a timely fashion is and awesome weapon...not that cursed druid staff but a genuinely cool flaming scimitar or something.

However, let's say you take 3 long rests and still havent dethroned her. Something happens to stop the druids and the ritual starts over again. You have three more days. Now you beat Kahga within another 2 days. You get a slightly less cool things, like a cloak of cold protection.

But lets say it takes you 6 long rests from when you came to the grove the first time and still the quests is not done. Another timed event happens to star the ritual over again. This one is Rath locked up going to be executed for interfering. You have to sneak in and save him. Either way, ritual now wont be completed for 3 more days.

This provides more interesting gameplay and rewards players for succeeding quicker and explains why events aren't completed in reasonable timefranes.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Again, the STORY puts time limits on like everything, but then the mechanics don't follow through. It's not just the tadpole, though that is still the biggest one even after they tell you it's not acting normal.

And Im not talking about Time Limits as in, you have to complete certain quests in 2 hours of gameplay. I'm talking about Timed Events that take place after every x number of Long Rests that buy you, the player, more time to complete the quests because you are taking longer to complete the quests than the story would allow.

Story Time Limits
Tadpole = Unknown, but could start changing ANY DAY, multiple people tell you this

Druid Ritual = just started because Arabella stole the idol. Time limit unknown but ain't gonna last more than a week tops. Anything more than a week would not make sense and even a week is a stretch to me.

Goblins Attack = Aradin leads them to the Grove. Again, they could attack any day, but time limit is unknown. They've been looking for the grove for awhile with a mandate to wipe it put. Assuming they, for some reason, need some time to prepare a full on assault, would it really take more than maybe a week...2 tops?

Lae'zel Wants Cleansing = Unknown time limit, but again, how long do you think she's going to realistically stay with you if you ignore her wanting to get cleansed. It is her number 1 priority, and she is more than happy to tell you this again and again.

There are more, but the point is that there are MANY game elements affected by not limiting long rests. I agree, putting a long rest limit that is too short would ruin the game, and that's why I thought that the timed events idea would fix this.

So, say you dethrone Kahga after only using 2 long rests after you first learn about the ritual. The reward for completing the quests in a timely fashion is and awesome weapon...not that cursed druid staff but a genuinely cool flaming scimitar or something.

However, let's say you take 3 long rests and still havent dethroned her. Something happens to stop the druids and the ritual starts over again. You have three more days. Now you beat Kahga within another 2 days. You get a slightly less cool things, like a cloak of cold protection.

But lets say it takes you 6 long rests from when you came to the grove the first time and still the quests is not done. Another timed event happens to star the ritual over again. This one is Rath locked up going to be executed for interfering. You have to sneak in and save him. Either way, ritual now wont be completed for 3 more days.

This provides more interesting gameplay and rewards players for succeeding quicker and explains why events aren't completed in reasonable timefranes.

Thing is timelimits tied to a mechanic like resting doesn't sound enjoyable to me as a limit.

Tadpole, yes unknown, but over time your characters would become used to it, still looking for a cure but less fervent and terrified. Constantly worrying and rushing would wear them out and cause them to die.

Druid Ritual, also unknown. A ritual on that level in dnd could be very variable, all depends on the writer. It could easily take only days, or weeks, months, or even a year to permanently seal off the grove. Move in faerun can be like that, and this seems like a very largescale ritual.

Goblin Attack, something I am actually more surprised is that there is not goblins laying a siege and trying to starve the tieflings out at some point. Its kinda the basics of warfare and the goblins could easily have done it. Though prepping for a raid to exterminate could take week.

Laezel, she begins to have her doubts over time, and she does talk about needing to go to the creche a lot, and even then there are cases where she can leave your group or try to kill you without timelimits.

And again 2 long rests are very very little, considering how many encounters are on the way to khaga, unless you are abusing the game systems or really really skilled, you will have to use at least one of them, but considering there is the goblin battle and a whole other dungeon you are intended to do before, then you are likely to use up your two just by playing the game normal. And that goes into an issue, how do you telegraph this to a player without them feeling like it is unfair? With no clear indicators of time in the current set up, you would have to add very very clear indicators of how much time which can then detract it in a different way. Like if every side quest giver tells you exactly how much time you have it would feel less like a living world and also would feel draining.

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Another idea I had was that they could limit Long Rest by having characters refuse to do it unless there is a significant need. Basically, instead of them saying they are tired for dialogue triggers, they say they aren't tired when you try to Long Rest unless you meet the prerequisites.

What would be required for a Long Rest is the following:

1. Short rests all used up.
2. HP less than half collectively. So if all party members have a total of 80 HP and together they have less than 40.
3. 1 or more characters with no more spell slots and/or special ability slots
4. Not in a dangerous location like Hag's lair or gobbo base
5. 1 Food item per character in the camp.
6. 1 Drink item per character in the camp.

Doesn't have to be this exactly, but thinking something like this. Than restrict short rests a bit too. Short rests would require:

1. HP less than half collectively. So if all party members have a total of 80 HP and together they have less than 40.
2. 1 or more characters who have used 1 or more spell slots or special ability slots
3. In a safe location where no enemies could wander about and find them. So Larian would need to create Short Rest Zones and limit how many there are.
4. 1 Food or drink item per character in party, so probably 4.

Short rests would then be used to recover HP, 1 Spell Slot for Mage and maybe even Cleric, and Superiority Dice, etc. Something like that.

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Originally Posted by XxAnonymousxX
I agreed that it would change spellcasters and even some other mechanisms in the game but honestly short rests giving lvl 1 spell slots is very minor given that most of the current lvl 1 spells are either rarely used or never used due to the over importance of lvl 2 spell slots and long rests, not to mention that there are only a handful of strong lvl 1 spells in general and even less in the cantrips, Lvl 2 spells and above are where most of the real damage comes into play and i think it make sense to keep those for the most difficult fights. However if this system is a little to much for most people you could even dial it down a notch or 2 depending on how it affects gameplay, but as i said it is already implemented on Warlocks and some other spells and spellcasters so why couldn’t it be implemented on all spellcasters and spells instead, and give the spells who are unaffected by the change a bit of a different buff or ability to make up for the loss in utility. I personally just think that certain spellcasters lack way to much flexibility and need a buff to allow people to use the underused spells more frequently.

That is something that is basically supposed to be exclusive to warlock, the classes in 5e are fairly balanced to eachother. Warlocks get less spell slots but recharge em easier. Wizards get way more but harder to recharge them. Allowing every class to recharge level 1 spellslots freely would power encroach on the special thing warlocks have and make em all more samey, also it really would push the balance badly. Level 1 spells are fairly strong if one knows how to use them, and in tabletop spells are more important for their utility than their damage sometimes, but looking at just level 1 wizard spells, most any of them are useful, and many are damaging in their own rights. Also this would move a lot farther from 5e when I think moving closer to 5e would actually make the game more balanced and fun.
Also cantrips only feel useless cause we were cut off at 4, cause at level 5 they all get an extra damage die and a cantrip like Eldritch Blast starts to become a powerhouse.

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Forget 2 long rests as a time limit. That is not what Im saying. 2 long rests was an example. You are focusing on the specifics, not the concept, My proposal is that you would still have lots of long rests before something truly bad would happen.

What Im actually saying is:

Complete the quest in x days, get the best reward
Complete the quest in y days, get not as good reward and trigger a cutscene to explain why event has not yet happened
Complete the quest in z days, get an okay reward and trigger another cutscene buying you more time
Then, after much time goes by, if you still ain't done the quest, something bad happens.

That was the idea.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Another idea I had was that they could limit Long Rest by having characters refuse to do it unless there is a significant need. Basically, instead of them saying they are tired for dialogue triggers, they say they aren't tired when you try to Long Rest unless you meet the prerequisites.

What would be required for a Long Rest is the following:

1. Short rests all used up.
2. HP less than half collectively. So if all party members have a total of 80 HP and together they have less than 40.
3. 1 or more characters with no more spell slots and/or special ability slots
4. Not in a dangerous location like Hag's lair or gobbo base
5. 1 Food item per character in the camp.
6. 1 Drink item per character in the camp.

Doesn't have to be this exactly, but thinking something like this. Than restrict short rests a bit too. Short rests would require:

1. HP less than half collectively. So if all party members have a total of 80 HP and together they have less than 40.
2. 1 or more characters who have used 1 or more spell slots or special ability slots
3. In a safe location where no enemies could wander about and find them. So Larian would need to create Short Rest Zones and limit how many there are.
4. 1 Food or drink item per character in party, so probably 4.

Short rests would then be used to recover HP, 1 Spell Slot for Mage and maybe even Cleric, and Superiority Dice, etc. Something like that.

This I greatly prefer. though i think shortrests shouldn't be restricted too much, even in tabletop they are meant to be used freely. I think they should just depend on how many "hitdie" a caster could have, so level. So a level 1 party can only shortrest once and a level 4 party could do it four times. Shortresting in quick succession only means they heal more cause most characters can only take advantage of X on Shortrest once or it falls off on shortrest. Just keep things as they work in 5e for shortresting and give some limit to longresting like how you mentioned needing a resource and the characters to be tired. Also long resting needing food actually is in line with 5e as characters are supposed to eat rations to avoid exhaustion.

Last edited by CJMPinger; 30/04/21 04:26 AM.
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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Another idea I had was that they could limit Long Rest by having characters refuse to do it unless there is a significant need. Basically, instead of them saying they are tired for dialogue triggers, they say they aren't tired when you try to Long Rest unless you meet the prerequisites.

What would be required for a Long Rest is the following:

1. Short rests all used up.
2. HP less than half collectively. So if all party members have a total of 80 HP and together they have less than 40.
3. 1 or more characters with no more spell slots and/or special ability slots
4. Not in a dangerous location like Hag's lair or gobbo base
5. 1 Food item per character in the camp.
6. 1 Drink item per character in the camp.

Doesn't have to be this exactly, but thinking something like this. Than restrict short rests a bit too. Short rests would require:

1. HP less than half collectively. So if all party members have a total of 80 HP and together they have less than 40.
2. 1 or more characters who have used 1 or more spell slots or special ability slots
3. In a safe location where no enemies could wander about and find them. So Larian would need to create Short Rest Zones and limit how many there are.
4. 1 Food or drink item per character in party, so probably 4.

Short rests would then be used to recover HP, 1 Spell Slot for Mage and maybe even Cleric, and Superiority Dice, etc. Something like that.

This I greatly prefer. though i think shortrests shouldn't be restricted too much, even in tabletop they are meant to be used freely. I think they should just depend on how many "hitdie" a caster could have, so level. So a level 1 party can only shortrest once and a level 4 party could do it four times. Shortresting in quick succession only means they heal more cause most characters can only take advantage of X on Shortrest once or it falls off on shortrest. Just keep things as they work in 5e for shortresting and give some limit to longresting like how you mentioned needing a resource and the characters to be tired. Also long resting needing food actually is in line with 5e as characters are supposed to eat rations to avoid exhaustion.

I disagree entirely, that suggestion would make the game significantly less fun, albeit more like dnd 5e in some aspects, but overall I don’t think most people want 4 or 5 restrictions on the ability to get some spell slots. In fact I don’t really understand why even hardcore players would want that, the game by its self on normal when fighting 5 or more enemies is already a huge pain but the payoff is usually worth it and you can rest and recover after to at least have your melee fighters in tip top shape as it currently stands, but that change would neuter wizards as a whole for me personally as it would be no different than POE which i loved except for the fact wizards were 99% of the time worthless, and only cause further annoyance when they died after being useless (when they ran outta spells). I don’t want a repeat of that. Personally i want to see wizards in a better spot than right now as currently they are Imo the weakest of all the currently available classes, and no I don’t think that the individuality of warlock would be ruined as the main draw for me and probably some other people is the pet and evil eldritch feel of the spell warlock has that wizard can’t even get, the only class wizard can really copy somewhat is cleric but even then it is completely subpar because the wizard usually lacks wisdom to cast good cleric spells. This loss of identity for other classes from what i can tell would be non existent because the identity is based on what spells the spellcaster has and then the next defining factor would be how effective those spells are on said class. Also cantrips getting an extra die still would make them subpar on most classes as their damage (other than a few exceptions) is already low and the boost they get would barely bring them to lvl 2 eldritch blast territory. Also one of the only ways you can resurrect a party member is at the camp so multiple restrictions would hamper that as well.

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Well, I personally like the hit dice aspect of 5e. Ironically, I've suggested that before and people hated it, but that would certainly limit short rests.

Listen, you have to limit Long Rest and Short Rest somehow. That's why WOTC did in the first place for 5e. Hit dice limited short rests, and the fact that a long rest is end day is supposed to limit it in the game.

So, either Larian needs to put SOME sort of timed events in the game based on how many long rests you take, which makes sense based on the story, which is what a normal DM would do, not letting their players just spam long rest without consequences, OR you have to put some kind of prerequisites on long rest.

If you don't limit them, you can abuse them, and other aspects of the game become meaningless which is what we have now.

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One of my biggest issues with resting right now is just how much the character / story cutscenes are tied to it being at specific moments. I often end up long resting purely out of story purposes rather than having expended my characters. That for me is the biggest obstacle for figuring out long resting. I like the idea of having consequences for not completing certain quests on time, but it's also a real pain to get some of the character's cutscenes when they're tied to specific moments and / or override eachother. I would really like to see no overriding at all of character scenes. If Shadowheart wants to have her moment, why can't Astarion also have his moment? And for a lot of people, Gale's scenes have been a complete enigma to unlock. I dunno how I managed to get all his scenes first playthrough without even trying, but it really shouldn't be such a puzzle for those that want that experience. I'd really like to see some of the things you guys have mentioned, but I'm worried about what kind of problems it would cause with the current implementation of camp cutscenes.

Joined: Feb 2021
veteran
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Joined: Feb 2021
Oh yes. Current dialogue scenes need to be untied from Long Rests. In other words, Gale's Mirror Image Dialogue, as I call it, shouldn't be thrown out the window if I don't Long Rest before I meet him. In other words, to see his Mirror Image Dialogue, you have to make sure that you pretty much Long Rest when the game's tutorial pops up and teaches you to Long Rest just after the Devourer Fight just after you meet Shadowheart.

That's not cool. Not only does the game NOT limit you on Long Rests, but it also promotes Long Resting frequently which is totally contrary to the story.

So they need to untie Dialogues from Long Rests so that Dialogues are triggered in some sort of order no matter when you Long Rest; whether frequently or infrequently, so that all players are able to trigger those cutscenes.

What I mean is, regardless of when you first Long Rest, you should get Shadowheart's "I'm not sure this is such a good idea," dialogue as long as she has joined the team. Then, the first time you Long Rest after meeting Gale, regardless of when you do it, you get his Mirror Image Dialogue. Then, regardless of when you Long Rest again, after this Mirror Image Dialogue, you should get Gale's "Go to Hell" Dialogue. Maybe even during this same Long Rest, you could then see Astarion creeping out of camp. In other words, multiple dialogue cutscenes could even be lumped into a single Long Rest, as long as it makes sense to do it, so that whether you Long Rest a lot or a little you still get all the dialogues.

So let's not get confused here. I realize that on the one hand I'm saying that dialogues should not be tied to Long Rest. Then, on the other, I'm saying that events should be tied to Long Rest. So let me clarify.

The difference between what I am saying in this post and what I have said in previous posts is that when it comes to Story-Driven Time Sensitive Events, THOSE should be tied to how frequent or infrequent you Long Rest. So, again, using the Druid Ritual as an example, if I dethrone Kahga in less than x number of days (say 2-4 or whatever Larian decides makes sense in terms of how long the Ritual of Thorns should realistically take) then I get some awesome weapon or armor as a reward for doing the quest with only a few Long Rests. Yay me! I'm rewarded for doing it in a very few days. If I don't dethrone Kahga in that amount of time, then I trigger a new cutscene based on the fact that I took more Long Rests than the Story-Driven Time Frame suggested that I had. Then, this new cutscene that is triggered, that I would not get if I completed the quest sooner, would give me a reason as to why the Druid Ritual is not completed yet. This new cutscene would buy me more Long Rests to use to complete the Kahga Dethroning before the Ritual is complete. Thus, I might not get as cool of a reward, but my reward is that I get additional story and cutscenes and maybe a cool item that is not as cool as the item I would have gotten if I had completed it faster. THAT's the kind of thing I mean.

Either that, or just limit the Long Rests like I just posted more recently with prerequisites that need to be met in order to actually Long Rest. I like that idea too. In that idea, people can Long Rest as much as they want to, but they have to meet certain conditions to do it. I like that idea almost more than Time Sensitive Events because in that suggestion characters won't let you Long Rest unless THEY feel they need it. So, if after a fight, you haven't hardly used any spell slots, Short Rests, you still have lots of HP, etc., the characters will be like, "What? Rest? Already? We've hardly begun our day. I still have a lot of fight left in me. Let's just keep going."

In that way, if you do get hit hard, unexpectedly, for a particular battle, then you can Long Rest without fear that something might go wrong from a story perspective. It should also help limit people from using Long Rests so much since they won't be able to unless they have enough food, have used enough short rests and spell slots and HP, and so forth, and everything should all kind of work out better...provided that what I just put in here about untying the dialogues so they can't be overwritten, is applied as well.

So I like both ideas. Either one would work for me.

Joined: Nov 2020
old hand
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Joined: Nov 2020
Originally Posted by XxAnonymousxX
I disagree entirely, that suggestion would make the game significantly less fun, albeit more like dnd 5e in some aspects, but overall I don’t think most people want 4 or 5 restrictions on the ability to get some spell slots. In fact I don’t really understand why even hardcore players would want that, the game by its self on normal when fighting 5 or more enemies is already a huge pain but the payoff is usually worth it and you can rest and recover after to at least have your melee fighters in tip top shape as it currently stands, but that change would neuter wizards as a whole for me personally as it would be no different than POE which i loved except for the fact wizards were 99% of the time worthless, and only cause further annoyance when they died after being useless (when they ran outta spells). I don’t want a repeat of that. Personally i want to see wizards in a better spot than right now as currently they are Imo the weakest of all the currently available classes, and no I don’t think that the individuality of warlock would be ruined as the main draw for me and probably some other people is the pet and evil eldritch feel of the spell warlock has that wizard can’t even get, the only class wizard can really copy somewhat is cleric but even then it is completely subpar because the wizard usually lacks wisdom to cast good cleric spells. This loss of identity for other classes from what i can tell would be non existent because the identity is based on what spells the spellcaster has and then the next defining factor would be how effective those spells are on said class. Also cantrips getting an extra die still would make them subpar on most classes as their damage (other than a few exceptions) is already low and the boost they get would barely bring them to lvl 2 eldritch blast territory. Also one of the only ways you can resurrect a party member is at the camp so multiple restrictions would hamper that as well.

Arguably, right now, Wizards are actually stronger than they should be if all you care is about damage/evocation (if it's concentration this game messes that up with surfaces a lot.) With how resting is currently constructed, a Wizard genuinely can use all their spells lots in a fight, every fight. This means they can spam all their non cantrip spells, when cantrips are supposed to be a wizard's basic attack. Also loss of identity is very major cause Wizard, Warlock, and eventually to be added Bard and Sorcerer (and maybe Artificer, a man can hope) have a large amount of overlap in their spell lists, so their class mechanics help greatly in making each unique. And being able to recharge spells lots so freely is the exclusive thing for Warlock.

Also, I quibble greatly with the idea that cantrips are useless, even in BG3. Cantrips are great if you know what you are doing with them, with no resource cost a caster can exploit elemental weaknesses, target what they think would be lower to hit, and inflict status like being unable to heal. Cantrips are the wizard's bread and butter since due to inscribing they can get so many of them (only Tome warlock in 5e being able to compete imo). Cantrips are the wizard's longsword, doing a similar amount of damage, but they have a variety of longsword that while not getting a stat bonus to damage can interact with combat in many different ways. And ooc, I actually love that larian removed the negative from friends making it no longer just an ok cantrip to a very useful one.

Because of cantrips, the only time Wizard is useless is if Silence is up or if they got hit too much, otherwise a good wizard always has a tool for the situation, even when out of resources.

Last edited by CJMPinger; 30/04/21 02:01 PM.
Joined: Apr 2021
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journeyman
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Joined: Apr 2021
@GM4Him: I can't type out a big thing right now but I completely agree with you!

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