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Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu

The fact that a Lothsworn Drow attacks another Lolthsworn Drow on sight?

This is normal behaviour. smile


Actually... ... ... ... ... FU** you are right! ^_^
But it still feels forced and like a waste.

Which Lunatic is fighting a group of people all by themself without at least an attempt to plead for their lifes?
Drow society supports deceit and lies.
No begging for mercy or attempt to lure me with a promise for a reward later, should I let her go?
Meh.

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In the cave where there are gnoles there is a chest, in the chest there is an item, I do not know what it says in english, but in my language that item "turns enemies into friends", if u use it, then beholder appears. I thought maybe I could use it on a this drow... Idk. Has anyone tried to do this?


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Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu

The fact that a Lothsworn Drow attacks another Lolthsworn Drow on sight?

This is normal behaviour. smile


But is it?


What if the attacker is male and the female is a cleric of Lolth? Hell any female? Most males aren't Zaknafein and he even he kept up an outward veneer of respect..
Even away from that sort of set up, a Drow wouldn't attack on sight unless it was damn sure it would win. In many cases, even confidence of a win wouldn't be enough, they would also want to be sure of leaving no witnesses (that matter at least).

The Lolth loyal Drow absolutely are cruel and vicious but they are also scheming and very far from stupid or rash. This encounter could definitely do with some work from a lore/world building perspective..

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
In the cave where there are gnoles there is a chest, in the chest there is an item, I do not know what it says in english, but in my language that item "turns enemies into friends", if u use it, then beholder appears. I thought maybe I could use it on a this drow... Idk. Has anyone tried to do this?


It's just faulty translation (as it often happens); this item's description says
"A flask that can hold friends and foes. Likely to make the former the later"

so friends - to enemies.

By the way, it's not a Beholder - just a Spectator (lesser type).
Actually, your English is good enough, don't ruin your playthrough with a poor translation:-)

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Originally Posted by KopMcGinty

But is it?

What if the attacker is male and the female is a cleric of Lolth? Hell any female? Most males aren't Zaknafein and he even he kept up an outward veneer of respect..
Even away from that sort of set up, a Drow wouldn't attack on sight unless it was damn sure it would win. In many cases, even confidence of a win wouldn't be enough, they would also want to be sure of leaving no witnesses (that matter at least).

The Lolth loyal Drow absolutely are cruel and vicious but they are also scheming and very far from stupid or rash. This encounter could definitely do with some work from a lore/world building perspective..

For this specific encounter it wouldn't matter I believe. The petrified Drow have no idea if you are involved in their state, they would only remember up to the point of petrification, not anything during, so they definitely would attack. Even if this did not happen, I am fairly sure most Drow encountering them would at least let them become weakened against the Spectator before trying anything, any survivor could possibly be questioned. Stepping in to help, even if female, would be strange to the others. Not to mention most people tend to have a full party, traveling with non Drow would make you look really suspicious since they clearly aren't slaves.

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Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by KopMcGinty

But is it?

What if the attacker is male and the female is a cleric of Lolth? Hell any female? Most males aren't Zaknafein and he even he kept up an outward veneer of respect..
Even away from that sort of set up, a Drow wouldn't attack on sight unless it was damn sure it would win. In many cases, even confidence of a win wouldn't be enough, they would also want to be sure of leaving no witnesses (that matter at least).

The Lolth loyal Drow absolutely are cruel and vicious but they are also scheming and very far from stupid or rash. This encounter could definitely do with some work from a lore/world building perspective..

For this specific encounter it wouldn't matter I believe. The petrified Drow have no idea if you are involved in their state, they would only remember up to the point of petrification, not anything during, so they definitely would attack. Even if this did not happen, I am fairly sure most Drow encountering them would at least let them become weakened against the Spectator before trying anything, any survivor could possibly be questioned. Stepping in to help, even if female, would be strange to the others. Not to mention most people tend to have a full party, traveling with non Drow would make you look really suspicious since they clearly aren't slaves.


It would have been interesting to interact with drow from another era though. Cause maybe she were petrified for hundreds of years. Who knows.

Last edited by Nyanko; 24/11/20 08:26 AM.
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I agree, this encounter deserves a dialog option. Seems random you end up fighting them after you both worked to ill the spectator.

You can also kill the drow while they are petrified. I found it interesting they have an AC while petrified, and it's not automatic to hit them. Seems funny whacking away at a statue with a war hammer and missing. Once you reduce them to 0 HP they turn back to normal and you can loot them. Easy way to get a few out of the way before waking the spectator.

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
Disappointing. I was looking forward to more than just another unreasonable fight. -_-
I cannot even de-petrify them though.

Threw the anti-stone potion at them and it did nothing. LOL.
Oh well - at least I tried.


Right click the potion and "apply".

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Originally Posted by JustAnotherBaldu
This Woman leading them even got a cool Noble's name indicating the stylish Drowsociety background story!
What is she? The most dressed up trashmob of all times?

I know right. I was hoping to talk to the spectator since theyre supposed to be deep and philosophical beings unlike the average beholder. At first I thought it was because my character was a drow but looks like it attacks anyone and everyone regardless of how you approach it.

Quote
The greatest pleasure for most spectators was thwarting the forces of chaos and in defending valuable objects. A spectator's strong sense of justice dictated that creatures who did not intrude upon their duties had a right to live, and they would never attack a helpless opponent unless attacked via sly or cruel means. Killing creatures for any reason outside of duty or self-defense would lead most spectators to commit suicide in distress via self-imposed brain overload.

Really hoping this turns into a cool quest somewhere down the line where you get to talk to the big 'ol eye and maybe save/kill the drow lady?

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Playing as a lolth-sworn myself, I too thought this was a wasted opportunity, was really expecting at least a short dialogue. Especially since the name of the commander seems to be a nod/easter egg to the Dune novels - D'Arkonnen - which immediately made me excited.

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It should be known that in statue form the Drow are vulnerable to force damage.

I have my Warlock go through and blow them all up without waking up the Spectator.
The fight is decidedly easier when the Spectator is by themselves.

The very first time I stumbled on this fight my rogue was exploring ahead. I immediately ran away and hid in shadows and the Drow eventually saved versus the spectator's charm and killed him leaving me to only have to fight the two remaining Drow.

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I also think, this is a missed opportunity of an interesting quest involving freeing those drow and talking to them after the spectator is killed by your party. Like that it's just another mob battle.
Nevertheless it would be reasonable that those drow act hostile to you, since they were about to attack the Selunite Temple, when they were turned into stone. Since your party is full of overworld beings most likely including your own character, the drow would think you belong to the Selunites and were sent here to repell the attack. Anyway some talking with the drow and different options, how to manage that encounter would be very much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Ragnarök
I also think, this is a missed opportunity of an interesting quest involving freeing those drow and talking to them after the spectator is killed by your party. Like that it's just another mob battle.
Nevertheless it would be reasonable that those drow act hostile to you, since they were about to attack the Selunite Temple, when they were turned into stone. Since your party is full of overworld beings most likely including your own character, the drow would think you belong to the Selunites and were sent here to repell the attack. Anyway some talking with the drow and different options, how to manage that encounter would be very much appreciated.

But they attack not because of this, but because of Beholder "charm" , which does not off even after his death. I really hope there is a dialogue, it's just not ready yet.


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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Ragnarök
I also think, this is a missed opportunity of an interesting quest involving freeing those drow and talking to them after the spectator is killed by your party. Like that it's just another mob battle.
Nevertheless it would be reasonable that those drow act hostile to you, since they were about to attack the Selunite Temple, when they were turned into stone. Since your party is full of overworld beings most likely including your own character, the drow would think you belong to the Selunites and were sent here to repell the attack. Anyway some talking with the drow and different options, how to manage that encounter would be very much appreciated.

But they attack not because of this, but because of Beholder "charm" , which does not off even after his death. I really hope there is a dialogue, it's just not ready yet.

I see your point and I'm with you. Drows are complex beings and shouldn't be wasted as another monster mob battle. There should be different approaches to this encounter and some talking with the drow once they are free from the spectator's charm. It would be very much interesting talking to them, since they were imprisoned in stone for centuries, while attacking the temple and don't know that the Selunite defenders of this temple are long gone and that this temple was defiled by Goblins recently. Still they would consider the main character and his party as Selunite defenders at first, because they don't know that centuries have passed. For them it's just seconds. Maybe they even don't know, that they were turned into stone. Anyway that would lead to very interesting dialogues. I hope Larian will improve this encounter in the future. Using Drows from another century as just another mob battle is a big waste in my opninion.

Last edited by Ragnarök; 01/05/21 12:42 AM.
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Originally Posted by Nyloth
But they attack not because of this, but because of Beholder "charm" , which does not off even after his death. I really hope there is a dialogue, it's just not ready yet.
Feel free to corect me, since i do not know DnD so good as some other settings ...
But i cant help that, at least for some (especialy surface) races, that dialogue should be "Die! Lowborn scum!" ... and for other type of Drow (since i didnt really check their eyes, but i dare to presume they are Llolthsworn) it should be "Die! Filthy Heretic!". laugh

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 01/05/21 08:53 AM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Nyloth
But they attack not because of this, but because of Beholder "charm" , which does not off even after his death. I really hope there is a dialogue, it's just not ready yet.
Feel free to corect me, since i do not know DnD so good as some other settings ...
But i cant help that, at least for some (especialy surface) races, that dialogue should be "Die! Lowborn scum!" ... and for other type of Drow (since i didnt really check their eyes, but i dare to presume they are Llolthsworn) it should be "Die! Filthy Heretic!". laugh

Or they might think we're reinforcements ?? If we are other Drow. Also, do not forget Drow can take you into slavery, and not just kill you. My opinion is that even if there is always going to be a fight, there still should be a dialogue.


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Oh yes, totally ... if you are another Drow, or maybe Duegar they should talk to you ...
But right now, i wonder more about dialogue for beaten, knocked out, and tied Drows at that place. laugh


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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This part is stupid I agree. The captain at least should fight alongside your character if they are Lolth-sworn.

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Originally Posted by Nyanko
This part is stupid I agree. The captain at least should fight alongside your character if they are Lolth-sworn.

Yup. It’s another failure of the writers. Just because you are evil, doesn’t mean you don’t work for self preservation.

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I definitely don't think you can call this "a failure of the writers", but in truth, I also think either we're missing something, or this content isn't ready yet. Think of the moving pieces here, let's lay it down:

1. These Drow are petrified, potentially charmed, and we know that they're on a mission to overtake the Selunite Outpost. From a lore perspective, we can pretty much narrow down the scenario where they're willing to talk to you to a player-character who is a Drow, or is in disguise as a Drow, or meets some condition I'm not thinking of.

2. Assuming the player is a Drow (or otherwise meets the condition to speak with them), it's still perfectly reasonable to suggest that the shock of being unpetrified would be enough to turn a Drow war party hostile.

3. The game gives you a Basilisk Oil potion nearby (in the small hidden camp downhill, behind the spiderweb barrier), which screams "USE ME ON THE DROW!" (unless maybe the Spectator has the ability to petrify party members, but that would make the potion feel like a red herring.

With those in mind, we ask ourselves, "would it be cool if there was a possible conversation here, especially with Commander Maz'ri?" The answer is yes. Yes, it would be cool, especially for an "evil" character. The problem is that if you bring even a single party member anywhere near Commander Maz'ri, even in sneak, the Spectator spawns and all the Drow turn hostile (even while petrified). I was able to hit her with the Basilisk Oil potion from the ledge just downhill from her without spawning the Spectator, and she says "What happened? Straj, we've been spotted, attack!" before going hostile with the "Surprised" modifier (even though she was still outlined in yellow). I hit her with the "Friends" spell, but that didn't do anything (as it shouldn't, the tooltip for that doesn't indicate it's appropriate here: "Enchant a non-hostile creature to gain advantage on Charisma checks against it.")

One of the other Drow yells "For the glory of House D'arkkonnen!" when he becomes unpetrified, but that's the only other dialogue I was able to experience.

I tried "Speak with the Dead" on all of them, but you get "The corpse does not respond", and not "The corpse seems willing to speak, but not to its killer", as you might expect here if that were the problem.

After my testing on this playthrough, my conclusion (for now) is that this is either cut content or not currently implemented. If I had to guess the correct way to initiate a conversation with these Drow, it would be to kill the Spectator before it has the chance to unpetrify Commander Maz'ri, then use a Basilisk Oil (or Lesser Restoration, there's no reason that shouldn't work, but I can confirm that it does not) on her.

As a final test, I tried disguising Astarion as a female Drow and then had him sneak up and use the Basilisk Oil potion on her without spawning the Spectator (leaving her still outlined in yellow). This had no effect that was any different.

(EDIT: It is also possible that this content is currently shelved or being worked on, as Patch 4 actually reduced the game size by 20 GB or so. I have noticed multiple things that were removed, at least for the time being, and this could easily be one of them)

(EDIT #2: I've discovered that Lesser Restoration does not list petrification as a condition it can heal. You need Greater Restoration for that.)

Last edited by DeeperThought; 12/05/21 08:13 PM.
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