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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Yea, I know my type of romance is never going to be in this game lol. A sideways glance, a smile, a touch on the shoulder. Nope. just banging after killing lots of things. I get it, people like sex. It's just a little disappointing.

Oh come on, Shadowheart's scene was very well made.

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My oh my ...
One left you people unchecked for just a few hours and you go soooo wild.
Im proud of you all. laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
There are people who would REALLY love to play BG3, but they won't because the game has sexual content even available to them. I also know people who would never let their teens even consider a game that has any potential sex scenes in it.
This is probably the only true argumend i found it all this, directly related to actual topic. laugh

But you could also say that there are many people who would love to play BG3 ...
... if there wasnt naked organs ... like opened skull, or intestines on the ground.
... if there wasnt refugess in Druids groove ... i dunno where you are from, but the word "refugees" was a big topic in center Europe before Corona, so some people can still take it personaly.
... if there wasnt all the violence in general ... starting from fight, ending with torturing the prisoners.
... if there wasnt presentation of extraterrestrial life forms ... it might seem funny to some, but i actualy heared about people who claims they were abducked by Aliens and since it was traumatical experience for them, they therefore demands to cancel all stuff that popularize aliens.
... and im sure we would be able to find many more examples of things that "could" be trigger for someone.

In the end, the important part is that, if we remove all those potential triggers ... we would get the game, where our heroes are sitting by the (not lighted!) fire with everyone other, and dont interact at all ...

It reminds me a joke i write on Facebook some time back.
Backstory: We were discuising DnD races and wich one would we pick for out first Baldur's Gate 3 gameplay in EA, estimately about a week after it was released.
I was posting there picture of my Dwarf female warrior, with her magnificent beard and i was praising Larian with words "finaly im able to create proper Female Dwarf", since i do believe that both Dwarf genders should have some facial hair ...
I was told by multiple people that im acting offensive, since there are actualy womans "somewhere in the world" who suffers from hormonal instability that cause them to actualy grow beards. Then, after some discusion this "joke" was born:

Quote
I decide to create Female Dwarf warrior ...
But then i was told that create Females with facial hair is unsensitive from me ...
And i was ashamed of myself.

So i decided to create Halfling ...
But then i remembered that there are midgets ... who might take it personaly ...
And i was ashamed of myself.

So i decided to create a Tiefling ...
But then i noticed, they have tail ... and remembered that there are people who have rotated several links at the end of the spine ...
And i was ashamed of myself.

So i decided to create a Half-Elf ...
But there are lot of people who have mixed blood of two ethnicities ...
And i was ashamed of myself.

So i decided to create an Elf ...
Believe or not, after some research i did find out that some people actualy have health problems that cause something like pointed ears ...
And i was ashamed of myself.

So i decided to create a Drow ...
But then i realized that basicaly they are just Elves with dark skin ...
And i was ashamed of myself.

So i decided to create a boring Human.
Nobody had problem with my character and i was finaly able to play.
But then i read Larian article, where they say they are unhappy with players who created boring vault dweller.
And i was ashamed of myself.

So i decided to unsinstal Baldur's Gate 3 ...
Now everyone is happy. Except me.

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 06/05/21 08:08 AM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Some of you have some interesting views of Americans. smile It makes sense to me, though. Americans can be very... how shall I put it... difficult at times. Funny. I used to watch House Hunters International and the people who were the most annoying were Americans. Knit-picky and fussy and everything having to be a certain way... You could tell the realtors were gritting their teeth in the episodes, biting their tongues and trying really hard not to just tell the Americans to go jump off a cliff.

Anyway... Like I said before, I don't want Larian to dumb down BG3 so that it sucks. As someone, can't remember who on this post, said, or at least they said something similar, each game and each story has its place. Not every story is a Star Wars no real blood and guts and so forth story and not every story is a Game of Thrones. If they choose to include sex scenes and such, well, that's just what the game is. People who don't like it can go find another game.

But I do hope they keep the naughty bits at the level that it currently is now, if nothing else. Right now, it is very tame compared to what I was afraid of, so I'm glad. I do think Larian has been wise so far with it. There's enough sexual content to appeal to those who like it, but yet it is tucked away enough that those who don't want it simply don't have to trigger it. I don't have to approve of the sexual content, and I might think the game would sell more copies if they didn't include it, but it is what Larian decides that it is. If they go more raunchy, though, I will be very disappointed because I won't play it anymore. As long as they keep it at the level it is at, where the player has to trigger the naughty bits, I will continue to play.

And still, I'd like a bit more emphasis on the romance aspect of it rather than the sex aspect of it.

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Interesting to see the differing opinions on Americans here, haha. I'm American but live in Europe now. I grew up in a non-religious household. Was taught the birds and the bees very early and there was never any shame around sex or nudity at home. I was never limited in what I could watch or play and I'd be taken to see graphic movies in theaters and such. As a kid I'd just go "yuck!" and close my eyes during sex scenes lol. My mom is an artsy / hippy type though, so my experience maybe wasn't the norm. I did go to a catholic school though, not cause of any religious affiliation but because it was better than the public school in town, so I got a taste of the other end of the spectrum. I don't identify at all with the "prude" American thing but I guess my upbringing was a lot more open. I've been living in Europe for a few years now and don't feel much different... if anything I'm more at home!

I have to agree with what many have said here, specifically Dez's arguments. I actually had a conversation about this with my boyfriend last night after reading this thread. We've both played mature games with sex scenes throughout our relationship but we've never even questioned it. We've made jokes and talked about who we romanced in games like The Witcher, Cyberpunk, and BG3, and why we liked those particular characters, but it never crossed our minds that it could be a problem for us or that it gives us unrealistic expectations. We concluded that we just view those experiences as fantasy and entirely separate from our relationship. For us, it's like talking about why we liked certain characters or scenes in movies or books. We did a playthrough of BG3 together and I teased him for going after Shadowheart while he teased me for simping over Astarion.

Personally, I like the sex scenes as part of the narrative. I wouldn't mind if they were more graphic or less. Minthara's scene is the spiciest and, while I was a little surprised at first, I wouldn't change it. I felt it was fitting of her character and the lore around drow society and appreciated the bit where you can peer into her fears, which I thought humanized her a bit. Astarion's scene is also well done, and as an abuse survivor I found it relatable in subtle ways that many stories lack. Shadowheart's scene isn't a full sex scene yet, but as many have stated, it entirely fits who she is, rounds out that aspect of her, and leaves it open for more development. You can learn a lot about someone, their desires, fears, and vulnerabilities, in sex. I hope all the sex scenes will provide more dimension and insight into the characters. A big thing to keep in mind right now though is that it is early access. I believe many opportunities for flirting are simply not in the game yet. From what I've seen in the datamined content, there are some potentially romantic moments that haven't been implemented. Some patience might be needed for now. wink

I feel many of the issues being brought up here are individual and personal and I would prefer it not affect the stories Larian is trying to tell. Just my opinion though! Interesting to see the civil discussion happening here. smile

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Originally Posted by Sabra
Minthara's scene is the spiciest and, while I was a little surprised at first, I wouldn't change it. I felt it was fitting of her character...

As an aside to the conversation, but I really do sincerely hope that you say this only in reaction to those saying it's too much, or else say it in jest... There is so much, that is so, so terrible about that scene, the least of which is how the action part of the scene runs entirely against her supposed character portrayal and the dialogue that sets it up.

There's a thorough break down of the scene, that takes it apart and illustrates why this *cannot* under any circumstance be allowed to pass as the yard stick for the rest of the intimate scenes that are planned... I'd encourage anyone who hasn't yet to please take a look at the thread while you discuss the portrayal of sex scenes in this video game... I'd consider it important reading. You can find the thread Here. Please have a look if you can.

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I do find this conversation pleasant because no one is jumping down anyone's throat. So I appreciate that. I also enjoy this conversation because I am getting to see a different perspective on things.

You all are on one side of a spectrum. It is like an RPG...lol. All of you who say that sex has no negative impacts on you and that you can freely discuss such things with spouses and significant others and so forth and all is great and well. You are like characters who have a skill with a bonus of +10. This skill helps you avoid issues with these things. You don't cheat on your significant others and resist doing bad things because of your resistance level. You don't fight over it or argue about it or whatever, and it doesn't impact your expectations for your significant other.

On the other end of the spectrum, there are those who have no proficiency in this skill. Difficulty level is 15 and they get no bonuses to resist having issues. For whatever reason, messed up childhoods with broken families or some adult in their life messing with them or they had emotional issues or chemical imbalances or whatever the reasoning - for there are many reasons - they are adults and have very little resistance. It is hard for them, and they struggle daily against it. I deal with them because I am like a cleric, trying to help the hurting. I try to help them overcome their issues because I care about them.

The true Gospel of Jesus Christ is not what many think it is. It is not what most Bible-Thumpers drill into people. The Gospel of Christ is about salvation from sins offered to all people, even those who do the worst crimes. If they will turn from those crimes, they can receive that salvation. But how can they truly turn from such things if they are always tempted by them and it has such a power over them? Truly, God understands their struggles, and He knows their hearts. So if they are willing to fight against such temptations to try to live wholesome lives, He does not hold their weaknesses against them. He is faithful and just to forgive them of their sins because their heart is right.

But with sex all over everywhere, it is hard on them. Again, for them, it is like an alcoholic with people waving booz under their noses all day long. They are trying to resist, but it is a constant temptation. So, it torments these pour souls and damages their relationships, their self-esteem, etc.

These are not few and far between people. There are many who suffer like this. If there weren't, there wouldn't be so many sex crimes in the world.

These are the people I am sympathetic to. These are the people I am concerned about. This is why I try to oppose sex in games and shows and such. It is not because if you watch these things you are damned to Hell. It is because they do hurt others, even if they don't hurt everyone.

That said, again, I find this entire conversation interesting because it is a different perspective. I am used to the one side of the spectrum and not the other.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ok. Let's just talk RPGs only. How many of these have sex scenes?

Im not talking romance. Im talking actual sex scenes.


Individually, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is the best selling RPG of all time.

Pokémon - 368 million
Final Fantasy - 154.5 million
Dragon Quest - 81 million[2]
Dragon Quest - 81 million[3]
The Elder Scrolls - 52 million
Borderlands - 48 million[4]
Lineage - 43 million
The Witcher - 40 million
Fallout - 38 million
Mario RPG - 28.7 million
Mario RPG - 28.7 million
Kingdom Hearts - 25 million[5]
Megami Tensei - 23.5 million[6]</nowiki>[7]
Tales - 20 million[8]
Dragon Ball RPG - 17.2 million
Mass Effect - 16.5 million
Super Robot Wars - 16 million
World of Warcraft - 14 million
Souls - 14.7 million
Yo-kai Watch - 13 million[9]
Mana - 12.3 million[10]
Fable - 12 million[11][12]
Guild Wars - 11.5 million
Persona - 11.1 million[13]
SaGa - 9.9 million[14]
Inazuma Eleven - 8 million[15]
Chrono - 5.4 million[16]
Baldur's Gate - 5 million[17]
Nier - 5 million<ref>Nier 1 - 500k - SourceNier Automata - 4.5 million Source </ref>

BG1 and 2 also did not have sex scenes. You had the option to have sex with someone, but it was fade to black.

We all know best RPG ever made was Planescape : Torment. Yet Im not seing it in BEST SELLING RPG game list of all time...
I guess its overrated trash. Just like Arcanum.
BEST SELLING means shit in a world were everyone's opinion is valid and where there are NO experts.
Mobile games rule the gaming world in terms of numbers. Shit sells.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 06/05/21 10:40 PM.
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The technology to even have a sex scene that isn't polygons colliding is extremely recent AND the average age of gamers has been increasing. It's absurd to look at sales of games from 20 years ago to justify that it isn't potentially a meaningful artistic choice. There are numerous Oscar winning films that have sex scenes, for instance, and books, and it's always the creator's choice.

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You know, I didn't make up the list. I pulled it from a website detailing best selling rpgs. I wasn't making it up, and it was for 2021, as in how much money they've made to date.

But my point wasn't whether there was an interest or not. My point is that sex limits the market potential. Take out the sex and the game can be marketed to way more people and thus make more money.

Here's just an example of what I mean:

You create a game. You want to sell it to 50 people in a room. Of those 50 people, there are 10 adults who like sex in games, 10 are adults who don't like sex in games, 10 are teens, 10 are kids and 10 just don't care. All of them like fantasy. I realize this is an unrealistic scenario, but my point isn't how real the scenario is. My point is that of the 50 people, how many are going to buy the game if there is sex in it? How many might you sell it to if there is no sex in it?

Potential maximum sales if sex is in the game = 20-30
Potential maximum sales if sex is not in the game = 50

Yes, again, I admit that it's a rough and unrealistic scenario, but my point is that if you have the sex in it, you limit the game because you definitely won't get the 10 adults who don't like sex and you probably won't get most of the 10 kids. You will certainly get the 10 who like sex in games and maybe some of the 10 who just don't care. Of the teens, you might get all, but you might get none depending on how limiting their parents are about games with sex in them.

However, without sex, you could potentially appeal to them all.

That was my whole point in posting the Best Selling RPG games. They sell more because their market is more broad to more potential buyers. They can get people who like sex in games, people who don't like sex in games, teens, kids, and people who just don't care. If the game is good enough, sex isn't a bonus. It is a marketing liability.

THAT said. If you are truly marketing to those who like sex in video games, then you will be more certain to get ALL of those who like sex in video games if you do the sex in the game right. So, if you are looking for sure sales, and you don't care if you appeal to the broader audience, then by all means sex in the game is going to get some sales for sure. BUT, they had better do it right or they will not even get those sales, AND again you are limiting your overall marketing potential.

I just think this game is good enough without it. Therefore, it would sell more if they didn't include it. That's the bottom line of why I was saying it...well...and I don't really like games with sex in it...but that's my personal opinion.

I really like this game. I want it to do well. I want more games like this game. I want them to sell lots of copies. Therefore, I want them to remove the sex from it so it has more selling potential. Make sense?

I know...you may like it and not want them to remove it, but isn't what I'm saying sensible at least? You know, something to consider?

Last edited by GM4Him; 07/05/21 02:20 AM.
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Sex sells. You can't argue against an aphorism. It's like the golden rule of marketing.

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Lol. I know sex sells. There wouldn't be a massive porno market if it didn't. I'm just saying that once you include sex in something, you limit your audience.

If the story is good and the gameplay fun, and there is no sex, the audience is everyone. If the story is good and the gameplay is fun but there is sex, the audience is everyone minus those who disapprove and a good number of kids and teens, etc. because their parents won't let them play it.

People who like sex in games may buy a game without sex because the game is good, but people who don't like sex in games will not likely buy a game with sex in it even if it is good.

Same with extreme horror, for that matter. Parents are more likely to let their kids play Teen games than Mature. Even Mature games they may let them play if not TOO Mature.

But once you cross the line, you lose part of your potential audience.

But whatever. If Larian just wants their audience to be Mature and they don't care about those who don't like that stuff, that's up to them. Im just making a point that things without naughty bits CAN sell to a broader audience.

Last edited by GM4Him; 07/05/21 03:55 AM.
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I agree, it’s good to have a civil discussion about this topic. I know that I have made some pointed remarks about Americans in this thread, but they were meant also jokingly and therefore to be taken with a grain of salt. Americans have reacted very relaxed on those so far, congrats! I also know that the US as a country is a very mixed bag and I actually can differentiate. Nevertheless in general religion still plays a bigger role over there than it does in Europe (f.e. during political campaigns many politicians in the US refer to the bible or want to show their voter base, that they are pious, while in Western Europe hardly any politician would do so), but on the other hand the US f.e. is also the country with the largest porn industry by far worldwide. Those contradictions are normal, I guess any country in the world has got contradictions in itself.

That said, I believe very much in self-responsibility. Therefore I don’t like censorship or any attempts trying to nanny/patronize me, because I’m adult and can very well decide for myself and also make my own judgements on different topics after some profound research. Making mistakes, doing things which might turn out to be harmful also belong to everyone’s life, because eventually you might learn from your mistakes and get out of it as a strengthened personality. Sure not everybody, some ruin their lives to a point of no return with drugs, crimes, abusive relationships, whatever. But is the society or popular culture as such always responsible or are these actually personal issues, which then should be treated as such on an individual level?

Therefore I don’t think it’s a good idea in general to censor everything which might be a problem for personalities, which can’t handle specific topics or might trigger their mental illness. If you do, where would you begin and where to stop without alienating the vast majority, which don’t have these problems? The majority of people today actually are quite relaxed on some (soft) erotic content displayed in video games or movies and happen to enjoy it.

Concerning children it’s up to the parents to decide, simple as that and of course it depends on the age of your children, which content might be appropriate and which isn’t. But again these happen to be quite different around the globe. In Europe blood & gore is considered to be much more harmful for the sanity of your children than an occasional naked body for example. The latter is quite natural, while excessive bloodshed and violence shouldn’t be.

I know, that you can’t protect your children from everything. They will get into contact with things, which may not be appropriate for their age, be it in school or at a friend’s house, whatever. The most important thing is giving your child love and showing that you care and that it always can rely on you. Education is important, too and training their intellectual capabilities, so that they can make their own decisions as teens and adults. Being overprotective isn’t helpful, but having no rules at all, will be harmful in the end, too. It’s not easy to find the golden middle ground, but I think most parents do that about right more or less.

Back on topic, BG3 already has got a mature rating so far. So did Witcher 3 and f.e. the TV series Game of Thrones. Both were huge successes worldwide, despite different mentalities around the globe. So these did quite a lot of things right... I’m not suggesting to add content to BG3, which would result in an “adult only” rating. I’m fine with the mature rating. I just thought, without having played the Minthara route, yet, that the sexy content in the early access is quite underwhelming so far for reasons already mentioned several times in this thread, and wanted to know, if there is planed more and what we can expect?

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To GM4Him, All respect to your position, of course, but your reasoning is simply not sound. You're exercising a form of personal confirmation bias with the way you give your examples, and it doesn't hold true.

I can turn it around and show you what I mean, here, have a look:

Originally Posted by GM4Him
You create a game. You want to sell it to 50 people in a room. Of those 50 people, there are 10 adults who like sex in games, 10 are adults who don't like sex in games, 10 are teens, 10 are kids and 10 just don't care. All of them like fantasy. I realize this is an unrealistic scenario, but my point isn't how real the scenario is. My point is that of the 50 people, how many are going to buy the game if there is sex in it? How many might you sell it to if there is no sex in it?

Potential maximum sales if sex is in the game = 20-30
Potential maximum sales if sex is not in the game = 50

Okay... set aside the fact that a game that is geared in a way that those 10 kids will enjoy is mostly not going to be geared in a way that those 10 adults will enjoy, and all of the other similar factors that influence the concept...

Originally Posted by Niara
You create a game. You want to sell it to 50 people in a room. Of those 50 people, there are 10 product-purchasers who just want to play a fantasy game, any fantasy game (Group A). 10 who aren't specifically interested in sexual content in their games, but aren't turned off by it (Group B). 10 who aren't specifically interested in sexual content in their games, but give extra merit to games with sexual content (Group C). 10 who are actively put off by it, and require a very good product to purchase in spite of it (Group D). 10 who are only going to consider a game at all, if it has adult content (Group E).

So, in this scenario, a game without any sexual content will sell to groups A, B and D and MAY pick up group C IF the game is otherwise good enough – the bar is higher for them without that content.

A game with sexual content will sell to groups A, B, C and E, and MAY pick up some of group D if the game itself is good enough.

Potential maximum sales if sex is in the game = 40-50
Potential maximum sales if sex is not in the game = 30-40

It's very easy to set up an example that favours your stance, but it's not intellectually honest unless it's a fair example, and neither yours, nor mine in return in this case, are. Every kind of content addition both limits and expands your potential target audience in some way. Nothing is purely limiting, or purely expanding.

Quote
I just think this game is good enough without it. Therefore, it would sell more if they didn't include it.

That simply does not follow unless you beg the question of a lot of other underlying premises that you cannot take a given. In short, no, what you're saying does not track, and ultimately isn't sensible without a pre-established viewpoint that already agrees with it.

Putting anything into a game is a balance of the amount of people it will draw, versus the amount of people it will turn away; the rating a game has is an important factor in this as well. You do not, for example, count the pre-teen children as potential purchasers in your analysis when the game has a mature rating.

There is a target audience that would not have considered this game without the promise of romance and/or sex; people who glanced at it with disinterest and who only became interested when they learned that they were going to create detailed intimacy between the characters as part of the story romance. The question is simply whether the number of people who will try the game out when they otherwise would not have, with the added promise of this content, is greater than the number of people who definitely would have bought the game but now definitely will not, based on the promise of this content existing in it. We can all have an opinion on what the answer to that question is, but ultimately none of us has any factual data to provide that makes any answer certain. What we can say is that Larian and/or Wizards (probably mostly just Larian) have those figures and projections, have most certainly run the analysis and have, at least initially, come to the conclusion that the addition of it will improve their figures in the long run. They might be right or wrong about that, but at the very least they are in a better position to make that decision than any of us.

For the record: I'm one of those people in the group that really wants the intimacy to be done well, because as it stands, I'm not likely to want to play the game at all if it's not. The game itself is not good enough, as it presently stands. It's not a game I'd really be interested in playing, in this state and in this style, unless there's something to keep me here, such as solid romance and intimacy as part of the game's story.

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"For the record: I'm one of those people in the group that really wants the intimacy to be done well, because as it stands, I'm not likely to want to play the game at all if it's not. The game itself is not good enough, as it presently stands. It's not a game I'd really be interested in playing, in this state and in this style, unless there's something to keep me here, such as solid romance and intimacy as part of the game's story."

OK. I'm not trying to argue with you, so hopefully you won't think that. I totally get most of your points, but this quote above is what I'm really trying to get at. IF the game is good enough, sex is not needed in it for it to sell. People would still buy it and play it if sex was not included because the game is good. That is one of the main reasons I brought Skyrim into it as an example. That game sold incredibly well because it was a good game and it also sold incredibly well because it could reach a broader audience because it wasn't considered too mature for younger audiences. I know many prude American parents who even let their kids own Skyrim because the worst things in that game were heads getting lobbed off.
That, in and of itself, didn't make it necessarily okay for young viewers in my book, but my point is that a lot of parents and such felt that it was an okay game to let their kids own because it didn't have naughty sex bits. Therefore, a wider audience was reached and the game sold MORE because it was good enough without sex.

IF the game isn't good enough, and it is only selling because it has sex in it, then sex in the game is absolutely required. However, it will likely only sell to those who like sex in games and not as many copies to others. THAT was the point I was making even if my example was a terrible one.

All this to say:

Good Game = Sex not necessary in game
Not-so-good Game = Sex might be necessary in game to sell

THIS is not saying that just because sex is in a game that it isn't a good game. Games like Witcher 3 (never played it because of its content) are obviously good games as you've all pointed out. Otherwise, they wouldn't have sold so many copies. So I'm not saying because it has sex scenes or whatever that it isn't a good game and that it needed sex scenes to sell. However, my point is more that I wonder how sales would have done on Witcher 3 if it hadn't had sex scenes.

Who knows? Maybe you're right. Maybe Witcher 3 would have bombed without sex scenes. Maybe I'm totally off base. I've just observed that those movies and video games that sell more are ones that appeal to a wider audience. Star Wars sells more movie tickets because it is created as a mature series of movies, but the maturity level is tame enough for kids. Therefore, it isn't just mom and dad going to see Star Wars, but they take the whole family with them. Meanwhile, a movie series like John Wick (love this series btw) is extremely popular and is doing really well at like what, $580 million overall worldwide. Star Wars has been around for 40 years, mind you, but the point is that John Wick's sales are limited because it is for a specific audience only and not for a broader audience.

That's all I'm saying.

This is my final note on it, though. John Wick would not be John Wick without its full blown crazy mature content. Star Wars would not be Star Wars if it had a greater maturity level. Both would be ruined if they went their opposite directions.
Each has their place, and I get that.

But BG3 is kind of right on the border. It could be just a bit more mature and just reach the more limited mature audience, or it could be just a bit less mature and reach a broader, less mature audience as well.

Either way, they need to improve the game so that it IS good enough without sex to appeal to its audience. Don't you think it's sad that one of the only things keeping you playing the game is its intimacy content? Shouldn't they focus more on making the game more fun from every other aspect instead of focusing on making it more sex appealing? Am I really that far off base when I say that they could reach a greater audience with better gameplay and less sexual content?

I don't know. Maybe it's just me since I'm the only one out here saying it. Either way, it doesn't really matter what I think. They're going to do what they're going to do, and whatever their decision I have to live with it. If they go more sexual in content, I'll have to determine whether I'm still going to play it or not. If they go less sexual in content, I won't have to worry about making such a decision.

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Personally I don't think sex would save a bad game. If I was to compare a game to cooking, sex would be like one spice (not a blend, just one spice) while the game is the whole dish. If the rest of the dish tastes bad or the focus is way too much on the spice that is sex, then the game isn't likely going to sell well. Leisure Suit Larry died as a series for a reason. But used right, a spice can really enhance the flavors of the dish or highlight aspects of it. In this case, sex could really highlight aspects of a character that are laid bare during intimacy, like what they fear, the past written on their skin shown privately, or even just their culture. However it has to be handled right to be good, and to continue the food metaphor, not everyone likes their food spicy so being able to avoid it on the part of the player is usually good.

Last edited by CJMPinger; 07/05/21 01:02 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Some of you have some interesting views of Americans. smile It makes sense to me, though. Americans can be very... how shall I put it... difficult at times. Funny. I used to watch House Hunters International and the people who were the most annoying were Americans. Knit-picky and fussy and everything having to be a certain way... You could tell the realtors were gritting their teeth in the episodes, biting their tongues and trying really hard not to just tell the Americans to go jump off a cliff..

Hate to break it to you, but in many of those House Hunter shows, the "Realtor" is actually a friend of the house seeker - that saves the Producers the cost of a fee to the Realtor. The "house-hunters" are also directed to come up with ridiculously nit-picky complaints to "create drama". And the actual house they choose to buy or rent was actually bought or rented well before the show was taped - they view a bunch of houses, again just to create content for the show - they will even remove the house hunters belongings from the premises, putting it all in temporary storage, just to make sure you can't tell it's already been bought/rented.

Leaving that aside - this whole discussion just brings to mind a period in the 80's when a certain percentage of the population insisted that D&D games, including computer games, were a form of devil worship and a corrupting influence on youth - so I guess we better just turn Baldur's Gate 3 into a safe game of Pong, so as not to lose that group of buyers.

As far as I am concerned, the Witcher games would have been far inferior to what they were if the sex (and violence) was removed to satisfy certain potential buyer populations.

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Originally Posted by Anfindel
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Some of you have some interesting views of Americans. smile It makes sense to me, though. Americans can be very... how shall I put it... difficult at times. Funny. I used to watch House Hunters International and the people who were the most annoying were Americans. Knit-picky and fussy and everything having to be a certain way... You could tell the realtors were gritting their teeth in the episodes, biting their tongues and trying really hard not to just tell the Americans to go jump off a cliff..

Hate to break it to you, but in many of those House Hunter shows, the "Realtor" is actually a friend of the house seeker - that saves the Producers the cost of a fee to the Realtor. The "house-hunters" are also directed to come up with ridiculously nit-picky complaints to "create drama". And the actual house they choose to buy or rent was actually bought or rented well before the show was taped - they view a bunch of houses, again just to create content for the show - they will even remove the house hunters belongings from the premises, putting it all in temporary storage, just to make sure you can't tell it's already been bought/rented.

Leaving that aside - this whole discussion just brings to mind a period in the 80's when a certain percentage of the population insisted that D&D games, including computer games, were a form of devil worship and a corrupting influence on youth - so I guess we better just turn Baldur's Gate 3 into a safe game of Pong, so as not to lose that group of buyers.

As far as I am concerned, the Witcher games would have been far inferior to what they were if the sex (and violence) was removed to satisfy certain potential buyer populations.

Many people still consider Dungeons and Dragons to be a form of devil worship. I remember in bible club (that is what I called it, I forget what its name actually was) one of the organizers talked about how Pokemon and Yugioh was evil and that we should tell our parents that so we wouldn't have such corruptive pieces of paper. People often like to project evil onto something so they have an easy thing to blame for perceived faults, and D&D is one of the more famous scapegoats of Christian evangelism.

That said, my last character wasn't exactly good and if I described it to a pastor they would pray for my soul, since the things my 4e character did would not constitute as good:
He started a cult, became a demon, consumed greater demons to become a demon lord, defiled an angel and consumed it, consumed Dispater a highranking devil of hell, and consumed a god of rot. He (accidentally) caused an apocalyptic event in Hestivar (a heaven equivalent) and with some conniving ended up with an entire district of the place under his control because he solved the problem and most didn't know he caused it, and since the guard all died in the event he so generously appointed replacements with a whole legion of Legion Devil Legionnaires. He corrupted and used enchantment on enemies, arguably giving them fates worse than death. And worst of all, he was labeled a champion of bahamut before bahamut was euthanized (cause of a lot of things going wrong, he did not kill bahamut thankfully), so he was basically in a position where he instead of being redeemed kinda was allowed to do a lot of his evil demonic stuff with relative impunity (with the caveat that he was genuinely better than tiamat and he did have some things limiting him making him the lesser evil). Ultimately it all worked out cause even though he was a demon, he did end up creating a sort of peace, so nobody likes him, but also nobody wants to start another bloodwar. So essentially he became a demon, got people to worship him, and invaded heaven while being "blessed" by a god. And the final nail in the coffin, he was considered a desire demon (minor evil god of desire at the end, Scales of War was a wild ride and the players took it off the rails) so he would play with people's temptations...

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To put this in slightly different context, why don't we each state how inclusion (or disinclusion) of sex scenes would affect our OWN video game purchasing decisions. I'll start...

I have no moral objection to sex in video games, but I think that it is distracting and often badly done. I play games on a system with dual monitors, so if I **really** want to see sex while I am in the middle of a video game I can just look it up on the other monitor and have it fit my personal preferences with a much finer degree of control than in a video game.

That being said, including sex in a video game would not prevent me from buying it, as long as the rest of the game systems appeal to me. If the rest of the game is borderline then "includes real sex (lol)" would push me towards not buying, but it would by no means be a primary motive for the decision.

Regarding BG3, most of us have already purchased... I am critical of some of the video game aspects of the game, but there is enough here that I would buy again IN SPITE of the sex.

So, is there anybody here would would refuse to buy if they removed the sex? What about refuse to buy (if they could remake that decision) because of the sex? My personal guess is that the sex (or lack of it) is not really the most salient feature for most people in actually deciding how to spend their video game money, but I'd be happy to hear arguments to the contrary.

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"a period in the 80's when a certain percentage of the population insisted that D&D games, including computer games, were a form of devil worship and a corrupting influence on youth"

Well, the Succubus illustration in the original Monster Manual was pretty provocative. For CRPG's though, it's really all about the challenges. If sex is involved with some sort of challenge or story objective, then go for it. Graphic representation is another thing ... sometimes it is more effective to let the observer's own mind fill in the details.

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Originally Posted by dwig
To put this in slightly different context, why don't we each state how inclusion (or disinclusion) of sex scenes would affect our OWN video game purchasing decisions. I'll start...

I have no moral objection to sex in video games, but I think that it is distracting and often badly done. I play games on a system with dual monitors, so if I **really** want to see sex while I am in the middle of a video game I can just look it up on the other monitor and have it fit my personal preferences with a much finer degree of control than in a video game.

That being said, including sex in a video game would not prevent me from buying it, as long as the rest of the game systems appeal to me. If the rest of the game is borderline then "includes real sex (lol)" would push me towards not buying, but it would by no means be a primary motive for the decision.

Regarding BG3, most of us have already purchased... I am critical of some of the video game aspects of the game, but there is enough here that I would buy again IN SPITE of the sex.

So, is there anybody here would would refuse to buy if they removed the sex? What about refuse to buy (if they could remake that decision) because of the sex? My personal guess is that the sex (or lack of it) is not really the most salient feature for most people in actually deciding how to spend their video game money, but I'd be happy to hear arguments to the contrary.


Sex is not most important element ofc, but in fact game rating depends not only on sex scene. Also, romance can become a most important element for someone. That's why, even if you watch sex on a second monitor, it won't be quite the same experience. People are attracted to romance itself, relationship with character and reaction of other characters to this relationship, not sex cutscene .


I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
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