Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Gale and Azuth?

So --- I am trying very hard to learn as much as I can about Forgotten Realms before I play the full game, as it is not one of the universes I know much about. I kept finding the Azuth and Other Gods children book-o-poems all around during my EA playthroughs, so decided I should start there, and set about to learn all the majors deities and their stories. Ie, I wanted to know *at least* as much as a small child in the actual universe.

When I found list of gods online, I saw that Azuth was not the first God alphabetically. I thought that strange, so I skimmed down the list and found Azuth to see who he was, and how he came to merit the titular name of a children's book about all the gods.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Azuth

This line in the wiki stuck out to me most of all --- "Azuth often came across as crotchety and cantankerous, even to other gods and was somewhat misunderstood. His dry wit and unending devotion to the pursuit of the arcane rubbed others the wrong way"

Reminded me of a certain wizard.

I know Gale says he is one of Mystra's chosen, and from what I read she often has Chosen, so it is silly to think that Gale is somehow Azuth. Right?

But then I remember reading this article --- Polygon Interview

This quote stuck out "Of course, there are powerful characters throughout the fiction of D&D. The most powerful ones — the gods, for instance — appear in just about every permutation of the game that exists. But they might not even know what they don’t know, as the structure of the world itself may help to create certain in-universe blindspots.If you take someone, a cosmic figure — I’ll just pick someone at random — like Orcus. Orcus, in theory, appears in every setting. Except if he doesn’t. So then you have this interesting thing; Orcus is aware of all these worlds, except the ones he’s not aware of. But is he aware that he’s not aware of them? And if so, what does that mean? And if not, what does that mean? And then you start pulling everything together. And that’s where things get really interesting."

So I started thinking --- if you have a mndflayer ship able to travel between dimensions, and you have some dimensions where gods may and may not already exist --- then is it possible Gale is Azuth from another dimension, or this dimension's version of Azuth where he screwed up as Mystra's "chosen one" (his words) before ascending to demigod status?

Or maybe there is another explanation. Could there be trickery afoot? I know our ship ended up in the hells. And, if I understand correctly, Azuth became fused with Asmodeus at some point. What if Gale is somehow Azuth who managed to rip himself way from Asmodeus and escape the hells? What if he accessed the Netherese book in the hells at some point while in control of Asmodeus's body, and that trauma actually helped him escape the fusion? What if he is indeed desperate to return the orb to Mystra as he says, but his loss of power has something to do with the tadpole not letting him access the weave in a way that allows him to contact her? The man mentions Waterdeep alot...almost like a compulsion. What if he is either lying OR has constructed that fantasy to deal with the trauma of being in the hells for so long and unable to find a way to reclaim his true identity (and Mystra's favor)?

And we find that book of forgotten gods in the tomb with the corpse priest. What is the point of it? will it be useful later? Or is just a massive hint?

I also keep thinking of his campfire scene --- the one you get at the very first camp ---the "go to hell scene". It is pretty heavy. Alot of his scenes are, followed up quickly by an over-correction into faux nonchalance. It could indeed be a defense mechanism for a broken heart...or it could be that he is dealing with way deeper issues than we realize.


I also think about how he is the ONLY companion that does not auto mindmeld with you when you meet. I always found that very sus. Also --- he meets us at a portal. Which portal was on the other end? Where did he really come from?

So many questions...

No idea if this is a)stupid (as I do not know the lore AT ALL), b) already been discussed and dismissed or c) the product of complete boredom. Probably c. But thought I would share the musing...

Also --- I should mention -- I *hope* this is NOT the case --- I really like thinking of him as a silly (and rather lonely) wizard with a cat. But I thought it might be fun for people who know the lore to spark a fun discussion!

Azuth being weakened or reincarnated to escape Hell would make much more sense and a better story than Gale just being a random archmage who fell from Mystra's favor and became level 1 again. Hell is clearly a player in BG3 already so that would tie in. Gale being Azuth would be similar to Solas in DA:I but it would be a cool story. Having read Azuth's story now makes Gale's story seem like a lazy copy anyway.

The wiki says Azuth was already separated from Asmodeus and is now a god again though. Maybe they retconned that or took it further. Would be really cool if they could make it work.

I am doubtful Larian has the power to completely retcon things with DnD5e lore so I doubt it is Azuth. I do hope there is more to Gale's story though.

According to the same wiki that you linked, Azuth has been separated from Asmodeus since the Second Sundering (1486 DR) - BG3 takes place somewhere 1494+ DR (if I understood things correctly). Sooo, Azuth is already a full-fledged individual again.

Either way - correct or not, I do very much like your post in general. I am new to the FR lore as well, but I been digging massively (similarly to yourself, I'd presume ) to emerge into the amazing universe that is the Forgotten Realms.

And, while i do not think that Gale might be Azuth himself - I VERY much agree that there is something odd about him and I am 100% certain that there is MUCH more to him than what we've seen so far. I'd recommend you check out the earlier conversations here regarding Gale's potential story - there is a lot of interesting things that people have found, just like the stuff you've noticed!

Yes --- Gale is a mystery for sure! I will def scroll back though older posts and see what folks have been chatting about!

Also, rereading my post, I think I was half asleep when I wrote most of it and it is rather incoherent in some parts. Lol. I was more toying with the idea of a version of Azuth from another dimension or some weird plane swapping stuff, but was much too tired to articulate it (or really think it through properly)!

But regardless of the details, the overall feeling is that Gale is hiding *something*, and is not what he seems.

I also wondered for a time if he is perhaps involved in the mindflayer plot directly. IF his story is true, in regards to Mystra and the orb, then I would not put much past him, in terms of what he would do to win back her favor AND his powers. Or at the very least, to save his own life. Or maybe it is godhood he wants (like Azuth achieved). Why did Mystra abandon him in the first place? Did he get to big for his breeches? I hope we get to learn more! Also, the the three times I have heard about Netherese magic in this game, it has been 1) the portal he stepped out of, 2) the orb in his chest, and 3) the tadpole. What if he played a part in the magically altered tadpole in our heads? Made a deal with some rebellious mindflayers to do some complex magic for them in exchange for their help, maybe? Can't their ships get him to the astral plane where he might release the orb? Would he have made a deal like that?

Hmmm...I wonder if he even has the damned tadpole in his head at all! There is no evidence that he does except his own word.

He also seemed to think he could make a deal with Rapahel and get away with it. He has the arrogance as Karsus, that one. A deal with a devil, a deal with mindflayers. Not so different.

Of course, considering he is an origins character, it may be that whatever is going on with him is not intentionally nefarious or tied to the plot in that way at all.

And...maybe...just *maybe*...my paranoia stems from another source. Like...how he slept with my naive druid elf who was on her first adventure away from her circle...then hurt her feelings the next morning by bragging about a goddess he slept with ...then told her he could die at any moment if she did not keep feeding him magic...and then played on her sympathy and feelings for him to keep him around. Total jerk move.

...still miffed...

Yeah, Gale is the one Origin character I cannot find myself liking. He strikes me as shallow, and manipulative. I also thinks he lacks common sense, which he makes your problem of course and he is in love with his own intelligence.

Oh, there is so much more to all the characters, I think. SO much more.

Actually BECAUSE of how manipulative he is, I actually like him. Like he is clearly likeable and is USING that and you. For his own ends, or the greater good, or something dark I still can't quite know. But him being Nice but having something beneath him actually gives him layers and makes him intriguing. And a shitty person can really be a good character if handled right. There is a reason people love villains.

In on of Astarian's dialogues he says something that sparked my theory on him which is highlighted in another thread. " Somebody has changed the rules. " He says it subtly and you would miss it if you weren't really paying attention. This could reference not just Astarian but ALL the companions.