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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
META: if you're going to prohibit all mention of Solasta, just be upfront about it. Hinting that further mention of it will bring down the moderator hammer just muddies the water. It's true that people can get a little heated when discussing other games but it's not as if discussing Solasta as it compares to BG3 is inherently bad.

Nobody is prohibiting anything, but it gets brought up so much it has become a meme. Its boring and boorish to hear the same thing over and over.

Its also borderline trolling. Its like comparing Filet Mignon (BG3) to a half eaten hobo hotdog you found in a dumpster that someone threw up in.

But now that I played it, I have all the snark ready to go. "But Solas.." Me: "Nope! Its crap!"

Thank god I got a refund.

Last edited by Blackheifer; 19/05/21 02:32 PM.

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Originally Posted by Nyloth
Don't even compare then and now, people had much less choice, other tastes, other experience. Especially when you talk about BG1. It's not that simple.
I will do as I please, instead, because there's no REAL reason not to.

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But compare Pathfinder and some... idk Witcher3, you can understand who works for a mass audience. If you say "it's different", I'll say "I don't care, it's still rpg".
Well ,that's irrelevant, isn't it? BG3 is NOT going to be a "Witcher 3" type of action RPG, for one, and it matches to a T the same EXACT type of CRPG experience Kingmaker and its sequel are going for, instead. Just with a far larger budget.

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We can say that Larian is already making concessions in many ways, but you want everything to be only as you wish, or as it is convenient for your personal perception. Well, that doesn't sound very smart, at best.
You are just making noises without actually saying things, unless you can pinpoint with absolute precision what kind of unreasonable "not very smart" requests I'd be making, according to you.
And please, take the time to BOTH list them and point what would be unreasonable about them.

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Sometimes I really want to say, "if you don't like some game, just don't play it."
Well, that would be a pretty damn stupid thing and short-sighted thing to say, which isn't even that surprising all things considered.
You also seem to completely overlook that if I only had NEGATIVE things to say about this game I wouldn't be invested in it. Or that I often comment on the things I don't like, because I want the game to the best it can be, not out of sheer antagonist.

Also, way to go into a complete unrelated tangent, given that the entire post you were quoting isn't even about the qualities or flaws of BG3 AT ALL, but it was related to questionable generic claims about the genre people made in this very thread.

P.S. I made my signature even more click-baity for your enjoyment.

Last edited by Tuco; 19/05/21 08:10 PM.
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I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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I like how all this started because someone couldn't resist getting a chance to sass over god damn suggesting to try something else next week to pass the time if you had Gamepass, which I'm pretty sure a good chunk of us do. Because there is no way in hell patch 5 is arriving any earlier than mid-June now.

That said, I think it's fair to point out that all this falling back to cinematics and writing does nothing but muddle the waters, because hardly anyone legit has any problem with those. Of course those have mainstream appeal. Reverse the roles a bit - would you guys actually be here if say, Pathfinder had those, and BG3 didn't? Bringing that up is a much more reductionist argument than you guys realize and says quite a lot about you individually, that you guys only care about things with flashy AAA budgets rather than the gameplay itself - when the latter is rightfully more important for some of us because all of gaming at some point in time did not have the capability to support such visuals, so we realize that it is the gameplay that makes up the core of the game.

The grievances are focused on the combat for a reason. Or are you guys going to try to argue with a straight face that things like barrelmancy and height advantage and backstab advantage are suddenly mechanics that are crucial to appealing to a mainstream audience? If so, the future of RPGs is truly dire.

(I see mirrors in this type of argument within the DA fandom, with the jump from DA: Origins to DA: Inquisition. For all the latter did to try to appeal to a mainstream audience, the former is widely considered to be the superior game by the fanbase, despite almost everything about it supposedly being a much more niche game, if we were to use the arguments in this thread as a metric.)

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 19/05/21 03:21 PM.
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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
I like how all this started because someone couldn't resist getting a chance to sass over god damn suggesting to try something else next week to pass the time if you had Gamepass.

That said, I think it's fair to point out that all this falling back to cinematics and writing does nothing but muddle the waters, because hardly anyone legit has any problem with those. Of course those have mainstream appeal. Reverse the roles a bit - would you guys actually be here if say, Pathfinder had those, and BG3 didn't?

The grievances are focused on the combat for a reason. Or are you guys going to try to argue with a straight face that things like barrelmancy and height advantage and backstab advantage are suddenly mechanics that are crucial to appealing to a mainstream audience? If so, the future of RPGs is truly dire.

No, and I have made clear that I hope that Barrelmancy gets removed soon as well as:

Throwing people into other people needs a serious nerf
Shove should be a full action
Throwing potions onto people to heal them
Disengage as a bonus action only for rogues. Full action for everyone else.

But I am not making mealy-mouthed statements about some other game that has nothing to do with this one. I advocate for this because I think we are better than allowing these things into the game and in the context of this game these changes make sense.

Last edited by Blackheifer; 19/05/21 03:20 PM.

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I agree that the potential of BG3 is MASSIVE. 100%.
And multiplayer is obviously a part of it.

Add BG3's graphics, multiplayer mode, a few more interraction with the environment, a deeper story and real companions to Solasta and it is not a "niche" game anymore. It's potential is also very good and the foundations are extremely strong for next games.

The differences you're tallking about included how it sold only comes from the size of the project and the money available. Not combats mechanics or the rules implementations/deviations.
BG3's combats are a bit brainless because it's all about the OP mechanics inside Larian's box rather than the tons of creativity allowed by the D&D box.

Ofc you may have a better experience in MP if you're playing with players that aren't the best, if you try to solo'd the game or if you don't use Larian's cheeses..

But that's a poor tactical solo game that only rely on a very limited number of OP mechanics that can be summarized in a 5 minutes to read reddit post.

And when higher difficulty levels will come we'll have to stop using the tons of D&D sub-optimal choices even more to focus on Larian's cheeses.

PS : I don't really understand your problem with the camera. From my own experience it's only a real one when you fly but anyway.

This is something we agree on, they need to fix the cheese, and I am a big advocate of that. I don't use the cheesy stuff myself.


No jumping to disengage (unless rogue). No throwing creatures around. No barrelmancy. Shove needs to be a full action.

All three of those need to be removed and shove needs modified.

I have faith that they will address these issues given time. I would rather not depend on the mod community to fix it.

I don't know of anything else that really counts as cheese. Combat stealth feels more like a bug.

Solasta has no plans to build Multiplayer into it. The Developers have said as much. Multiplayer has to be built into a game from the ground up, to try to do it after the fact is nearly impossible and results in bad/buggy multiplayer.

The rotating camera should be controlled by the center mouse wheel by pushing it, like every other game does. You can't even re-map the keys to the mouse. You can't slow down the turn speed. Ugh.

What else do you see as cheese?

I consider as "cheeses" the mechanics that totally unbalance the game's difficulty and that reduce many choices to sub-optimal choices (DnD options including spells, features, choices, creativity).
BG3 cheeses himself by cheesing DnD and Larian's layer is the only layer that really matter.

It may not be the right words but according to me the "it's all about creativity and players agency" is a bullshit marketing argument that doesn't suit BG3 at all.
At the moment you totally have to think inside the small Larian's box to handle combats rather than having to choose inside the huge DnD box.

Hope you'll understand what I mean^^

That said, I don't consider barrelmancy as a problem.
Barrelmancy is not something combats are balanced arround at all. You can solo's the game without using any barrels with almost every classes. It's an addition, a real choice for fun.
It's not fun to me but anyway, I find cool that sometimes, ennemies use them. It can create unexpected situations and I'm perfectly fine with this
(a bit less with the too huge surface effect it creates but it's a detail).

- Highground advantage + disadvantage is ont of the biggest issues. DnD's advantage/disadvantage system is interresting and offer many possibilities. In BG3, it's cheap.
I could be fine with reasonable bonuses due to highground but not if it breaks a whole concept of DnD.

- It's the same about backstab. Advantages for attacking behind could be fine but not if it only rely on exploiting the turn based system (lol they can't face me, it's my turn !) and if it break tons of possibilities. This system is even more brainless due to disengage as a bonus action.

- Disengage as a bonus action also break the whole concept of AOO which is very important for melee character.
It tone down the uniqueness of classes, spells, features and so on.

- Dipping is ridiculously easy and powerfull. +1D4 damage is an additionnal attack with a dagger / turn, +2D4 if dualwield, +1D4 damages if the target is burning. Cost : a bonus action.

- Eating pig heads during combats looks stupid in a serious game and heal spells / healing positions are close to useless because a lot of food do a better job.

- I could be fine with shove as a bonus action but it should have real consequences. It should never push your ennemies 4 meters away, you shoud never have 100% if you're hidden and it should give you a disadvantage on your action if you use it or something. Or it should just be an action. Pushing creatures in hole is a lot of fun but the fun goes down if it's something you can do 9 times out of 10.
I'm not laughing anymore when I hear the same joke over and over again.

- Surfaces are too powerfull especially because you cannot avoid damages. It's way too easy to break concentration.

- I guess it's because of EA but being able to equip a shield to all characters before the ennemy's turn is ridiculous. If that's intended, increase our AC by 2 rather than giving us this tedious possibility.

- Unlimited resting system. Players have potions to heal and features to recover a few spells (and guess what, some classes recover their spellslot after short rests).

Anyway there are a lot of issues and I'm close to sure that encounters are so poorly balanced because of such things.

That's probably the short list.

If people are talking so much about Solasta it's because those games uses the same rules and because all issues of BG3's combats don't exist in it at all
(It has other issues for a wider audience, it would be stupid not to agree with you on that one)

But what does it mean ? Thats Larian's implementation/interpretation of the rules and/or homebrew are the cause of BG3's combats issues. Nothing more, nothing less.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 19/05/21 03:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
No, and I have made clear that I hope that Barrelmancy gets removed soon as well as:

Throwing people into other people needs a serious nerf
Shove should be a full action
Throwing potions onto people to heal them
Disengage as a bonus action only for rogues. Full action for everyone else.

But I am not making mealy-mouthed statements about some other game that has nothing to do with this one. I advocate for this because I think we are better than allowing these things into the game and in the context of this game these changes make sense.

Cool. Why did all of these arguments happen in this thread, again? Oh right, because you jumped on me from out of nowhere for even suggesting to try something else to pass the time if you have Gamepass, which wouldn't cost anyone here anything if they did.

That said, your last sentence is curiously worded. What exactly do you mean by 'these things'?

Think carefully before you respond, because you may notice that ever since this began, I have not made any comparisons to how things work in Solasta other than camera controls, which was a more general and neutral observation. My grievances with BG3's systems are based within the context of BG3 alone.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 19/05/21 03:29 PM.
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We are getting to 90 days or more out without an update to the game. The only news we got is a vague sentence referencing a community update.

Sad times.

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
No, and I have made clear that I hope that Barrelmancy gets removed soon as well as:

Throwing people into other people needs a serious nerf
Shove should be a full action
Throwing potions onto people to heal them
Disengage as a bonus action only for rogues. Full action for everyone else.

But I am not making mealy-mouthed statements about some other game that has nothing to do with this one. I advocate for this because I think we are better than allowing these things into the game and in the context of this game these changes make sense.
Wait, so you only want the changes you desired before joining the forum?

Forums thrive when everyone has an open-mind. And, you might enjoy combat more with proposed changes from the opinions of others.

Baldur's Gate 3 has more potential than other cRPGs at the moment, that's a good thing. A lot of us agree that combat is the sour point of the game and needs to be changed. A lot of forum members have well-developed opinions that are similar after multiple playthroughs. It'd be good to read through the posts with an open mind.

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Originally Posted by gaymer
We are getting to 90 days or more out without an update to the game. The only news we got is a vague sentence referencing a community update.

Sad times.

Yeah, at this point it’s a safe bet to say we’re not getting anything until E3 at the very earliest.

That said, I imagine this wasn’t the original plan. They probably decided to do something different that required a lot of extra work. Like maybe actually making these changes, or something unexpected. The longer people wait, the more they are going to expect.

Though I heard their offices also got flooded again recently.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 19/05/21 06:34 PM.
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Honestly, I hope it is something like they chose to start to work on something super complicated like overhauling all the systems based on the feedback here, It'd definitely shut us all up for a bit before we find something else to critique heavily.
Notably, critiquing and comparing is supposed to be part of a process like this. We are supposed to look at things and say "X is not working" or "X is working good" and it is very valid for people to bring up examples of things that currently are working in another game that we feel could work in this one. And S****** is the main one of that cause it is the closest to compare with 5th Edition mechanics and concurrency. However it isn't the only one cause obviously BG1 and 2 come up often, Pathfinder is a common mentioned game, and Dragon Age occasionally pops up in conversations for doing similar things. I don't think people mentioning other games is at all bad for the EA, though notably I and some others who post a lot have gotten repetitive on the forum cause of the lack of updates addressing the things we like to focus on so I apologize if I have annoyed anyone in particular for saying the same shit or bringing up the same things because of my desire to see this game succeed.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Honestly, I hope it is something like they chose to start to work on something super complicated like overhauling all the systems based on the feedback here, It'd definitely shut us all up for a bit before we find something else to critique heavily.
Notably, critiquing and comparing is supposed to be part of a process like this. We are supposed to look at things and say "X is not working" or "X is working good" and it is very valid for people to bring up examples of things that currently are working in another game that we feel could work in this one. And S****** is the main one of that cause it is the closest to compare with 5th Edition mechanics and concurrency. However it isn't the only one cause obviously BG1 and 2 come up often, Pathfinder is a common mentioned game, and Dragon Age occasionally pops up in conversations for doing similar things. I don't think people mentioning other games is at all bad for the EA, though notably I and some others who post a lot have gotten repetitive on the forum cause of the lack of updates addressing the things we like to focus on so I apologize if I have annoyed anyone in particular for saying the same shit or bringing up the same things because of my desire to see this game succeed.


OH hell, I sure do hope you're right about them fixing things based on feedback here =)

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Cool. Why did all of these arguments happen in this thread, again? Oh right, because you jumped on me from out of nowhere for even suggesting to try something else to pass the time if you have Gamepass, which wouldn't cost anyone here anything if they did.

That said, your last sentence is curiously worded. What exactly do you mean by 'these things'?

Think carefully before you respond, because you may notice that ever since this began, I have not made any comparisons to how things work in Solasta other than camera controls, which was a more general and neutral observation. My grievances with BG3's systems are based within the context of BG3 alone.



No I went and tried the game you recommended and it was awful. By the by, a little weird simping for another game in these forums but whatever - if the mods don't care its not my problem.

You wasted two hours of my life (Or I wasted 2 hours listening to you). Thank fully I got a refund, but guess what? I get to make fun of you and that game now, so win.

By the way, if you would like a nice free game to keep you busy that has about as much in common as the one you recommended, see below:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1610870/Chair_Simulator/


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Look at you and all the fun you are having!

Last edited by Blackheifer; 20/05/21 12:11 AM.

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...Okay, you’ve officially gone off the deep end. Only one of us is getting personal. I’ve tried to be reasonable, but it’s best to cut this off now.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
...Okay, you’ve officially gone off the deep end. I’ve tried to be reasonable, but it’s best to cut this off now.

I guess I have ammunition now. Or something. If it’s ever necessary. Which it usually isn’t.

good lord man, do you hear yourself? "ammunition"? This is a discussion forum, just don't respond if he's bothering you.

On topic: Larian loves exposure, they're for sure waiting for E3.

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Some things need to get called out. Though the one minute ammunition thought was a bit much, I admit.

On a side note, it’s a bit telling that this thread is that big. The wait is driving people nuts.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Some things need to get called out. Though the one minute ammunition thought was a bit much, I admit.

On a side note, it’s a bit telling that this thread is that big. The wait is driving people nuts.

i think we all want the game to be awesome smile

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We do. For sure. This could be the most important game for me right now, I think. <3

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I am kind of choosing to believe that there being no word on what's in the next patch yet means the devs are working on something several magnitudes more major than everything needed for the Druid class. Stuff like maybe our first look at proper reactions or ready actions. Not really holding my breath, but I can imagine very little that would require so much extra work, while simultaneously introducing another dimension of combat that could break things in a rather catastrophic way in terms of bugs.

Stuff like high ground/low ground and backstabs can be modded. Reactions can't.

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I hope the next patch would focus on overhauling systems community did provide the most feedback for (that could be tied nicely to the upcoming community update about how they process community feedback) and yeah, maybe first look at reactions, ready action or something similar. Would be cool.

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