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I also thought it was coastal and it took me ages to identify the location on the map of Faerûn that I found; not really helped by previously having zero experience of the place; and that the map significantly pre-dated BG3. While I haven't personally seen sandy beaches along rivers (just swamps; in fact Jarrow, the town where I was born, is thought to be named as such) I'll defer to other people's experiences, and only after locating it on the map did I zoom in to see that it is indeed a river, and a remarkably impressive one at that. Then again I have seen some IRL that are similarly impressive even far inland, such as the Severn.


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Just after the nautiloid crash, your own character has a line saying something like :"fresh water, there must be a settlement nearby".

IRL, there is a worldwide competition for those river sands as they are required by specific concretes.

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It might be worth during the cutscene of the nautilaud crashing there's an 'above' shot showing the land below to avoid the confusion, showing a large river (but both banks) and some blurry/indescript depiction of the above-ground bit seen in chapter 1, to help orientate people

Last edited by Some_Twerp753; 21/05/21 09:46 AM.
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Originally Posted by timebean
And know that one day, the full game will be out and we can all leave the beach behind for lavender scented baths.

Larian had better make those lavender scented baths a reality. My PCs need them, they're already starting to smell funny.

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I think it's fair to say that most people without any additional information to say otherwise would think "Oh, we're near an ocean." It's a little silly to find the few exceptions and state "OMG, BEACHES CAN BE BESIDE RIVERS" (emphasis added ;))

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Originally Posted by vometia
I also thought it was coastal and it took me ages to identify the location on the map of Faerûn that I found; not really helped by previously having zero experience of the place; and that the map significantly pre-dated BG3. While I haven't personally seen sandy beaches along rivers (just swamps; in fact Jarrow, the town where I was born, is thought to be named as such) I'll defer to other people's experiences, and only after locating it on the map did I zoom in to see that it is indeed a river, and a remarkably impressive one at that. Then again I have seen some IRL that are similarly impressive even far inland, such as the Severn.

I just defer to National Geographic which I'm fairly confident on betting knows a lot more than you're average poster in this forum. According to them, Rivers do not have white sandy beaches, they're silty and muddy. It's not a big deal, just caused confusion. The sound of waves crashing on the rocks in the Secluded Cove after the Harpy fight don't help convey the feeling of a river either. All it needed was a chippy and a few Seaguls to complete the effect. Seriously though it just causes confusion but it's not a big deal. I just couldn't find it on the map because I was searching for a coastal area. There's nothing about it that says River.

Oh and to the person who mentioned fresh water, yes the game says that. There are fresh water seas.

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At no point playing this build I was ever under the impression that what we had there was anything but a river. I mean, it looks like one.
So I'm vaguely confused about why that would be even remotely confusing or controversial.

And no, "rivers with beaches" are not an incredibly rare sight, no matter how many of you try to argue otherwise.


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Originally Posted by Chief_Jericho
Oh and to the person who mentioned fresh water, yes the game says that. There are fresh water seas.

Yes undersea, so probably a side-effect of the powerful tadpole virtually drilling hundreds meters down (usual procedure) to finally detect a fresh water pocket (and expect a deep gnome settlement nearby). All of that while your character, feet in the sand, is watching the river flow.
Hey I like you but you are too powerful, my tadpole cannot compete so, please, do not spoil, I don't want to know who the final boss is.

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This is also a game with magical brain parasites that give you telepathic powers, evil octopus Cthulhu people, wizards shooting fireballs, literal cities being uprooted and dragged into hell, elves, vampires, people that transform into animals, and others who share ancestry with devils. IMO, a river with a sandy beach is one of the most believable things about the Sword Coast. wink

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Originally Posted by Blacas
Yes undersea, so probably a side-effect of the powerful tadpole virtually drilling hundreds meters down (usual procedure) to finally detect a fresh water pocket (and expect a deep gnome settlement nearby). All of that while your character, feet in the sand, is watching the river flow.
Hey I like you but you are too powerful, my tadpole cannot compete so, please, do not spoil, I don't want to know who the final boss is.

I meant real life, I have no idea what you're talking about, I'm not immersed in the lore, sorry smile

Originally Posted by Sabra
This is also a game with magical brain parasites that give you telepathic powers, evil octopus Cthulhu people, wizards shooting fireballs, literal cities being uprooted and dragged into hell, elves, vampires, people that transform into animals, and others who share ancestry with devils. IMO, a river with a sandy beach is one of the most believable things about the Sword Coast. wink

Well yes, because don't you realise how disappointing it is to not be able to book yourself in to the beach front Hotel for a spa after a hard day's fight? I reckon the wizard needs a lie down in the sun after missing so often with those fireballs thanks to the wonky combat balance. Also, Relyeh Zorg, not octopus people. Seriously though it's mild criticism of it being confusing, I'm not expecting any sort of development time spent on it.

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Oh yeah rivers can have beaches. Look up river sand bars. I am from the South Eastern USA, specifically Georgia in the inland costal plain. Over the eons, the vast majority of this area was formed from the erosion of the Appalachian mountains. The beach front was moved farther out as the land lifted and mountain sediment, etc accumulated to our current coastlines. The rivers have cut into and exposed old beach sandbars. These areas erode the old fish poop sand down river and they collect in river bends. I have seen water wells being dug and hit the old beach layer about 200 feet deep (over 50 miles from the coast) and pull up old seashells by the hand full.

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One good way to tell a river from a sea is to look at the way the water flows. Seas and oceans have tidal movement, perpendicular to the shore. At least on Earth that is the case. I don't know if the fictional planet on which BG3 is played out has any very large moons. In a river water flows alongside the shore.

I have just looked at the crash location. The water is clearly flowing alongside the shore, and it is flowing towards the west. The experienced adventurer then knows which way it is to the sea (or the larger body of water), should that prove to be of importance at some point in the story.

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Originally Posted by Ikke
One good way to tell a river from a sea is to look at the way the water flows. Seas and oceans have tidal movement, perpendicular to the shore. At least on Earth that is the case. I don't know if the fictional planet on which BG3 is played out has any very large moons. In a river water flows alongside the shore.

Some rivers are tidal such as the Thames and Severn to name a couple of largeish nearby examples. I'm not sure exactly how far upriver it can go but it can cause chaos in areas that are significantly inland.


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I'm learning so much about rivers and geography from you guys! grin

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Acording to this map:
[Linked Image from baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com]

And the fact that Tieflins tells us that "it takes around 3 days to get into Baldur's Gate" ...

I would dare to say that on this map:
[Linked Image from media.wizards.com]

We are by the river, somewhere between Baldur's Gate and that River Chiontar writing.

//edit:
I just noticed that there is scale in down left corner ... i really should zoom out. laugh
So ... average (healthy, and well shaped) person is able to walk 20-30 miles per day ...
Since Tieflins are traveling with (or more likely at) Waggons ... i shall presume they should be able to travel 100 miles in 3 days ...
That would mean that on big map we are +/- here:
[Linked Image from imagesharing.com]

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 28/05/21 07:58 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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That map is super neat. I was always under the impression that Waterdeep was much further north than it actually was. But now I wonder where Chult is supposed to be on the world map.

*furiously scribbles notes for my tabletop character's background*

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I've been using this map in my own pnp game!

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

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Originally Posted by vometia
Originally Posted by Ikke
One good way to tell a river from a sea is to look at the way the water flows. Seas and oceans have tidal movement, perpendicular to the shore. At least on Earth that is the case. I don't know if the fictional planet on which BG3 is played out has any very large moons. In a river water flows alongside the shore.

Some rivers are tidal such as the Thames and Severn to name a couple of largeish nearby examples. I'm not sure exactly how far upriver it can go but it can cause chaos in areas that are significantly inland.

In the case of the Thames, it is tidal all the way to Teddington Lock in West London. It's quite a surprise looking into such a large river at low tide to find it almost empty.

I am writing this post about 30m North of the Thames at Windsor, where the Thames is definitely not interested in tides or the sea. The land hereabouts is best described as "soggy mud", and much of the 200km through which the Thames has flowed to get here is also soggy mud ( this is actually quite a good description for much of Britain ). So, not surprisingly, any flat areas that occur along the Thames are deposition of mud, as sand is in short supply.

But, pre-pandemic, for about 20 Years, I spent several weeks each summer hiking in the western United States. The river basins of the Colorado River, Green River, Salt River and Gila River ( for example ) pass largely through arid sandstone landscapes rather than soggy mud, and ( big surprise ) the rivers are heavily fringed with sand. Not only sand, of course, as the geology of these river valleys is quite varied; but lots of sand, and very little soggy mud. Look on the Internet for images of "Canyonlands", "Bryce Canyon", "Capitol Reef" if you want to get an idea of how different this is from the rivers of western Europe.

What surprises me more is that BG3 seems to set the Chionthar in a sandstone valley setting, and Yartar ( the city the Nautiloid attacks ) seems to be a cross between Mediterranean and Sumerian/Babylonian architectural inflluences, when most other references to the area ( and prevous maps of it ) distinctly suggest western-European-soggy-mud would be more likely.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Acording to this map:

[Linked Image from baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com]

And the fact that Tieflins tells us that "it takes around 3 days to get into Baldur's Gate" ...

I would dare to say that on this map:
[Linked Image from media.wizards.com]

We are by the river, somewhere between Baldur's Gate and that River Chiontar writing.

//edit:
I just noticed that there is scale in down left corner ... i really should zoom out. laugh
So ... average (healthy, and well shaped) person is able to walk 20-30 miles per day ...
Since Tieflins are traveling with (or more likely at) Waggons ... i shall presume they should be able to travel 100 miles in 3 days ...
That would mean that on big map we are +/- here:
[Linked Image from imagesharing.com]

Well, we know the Teiflings started in Elturel, and are travelling downriver towards Baldurs Gate. We also know that Moonrise Towers is "next stop" downriver on our journey towards Baldurs Gate.

So, I guess that puts us much further upriver than where you calculate? At least according to this map.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I'm not too sure that Larian have done a common sense/consistency pass over the game yet smile

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Originally Posted by etonbears
In the case of the Thames, it is tidal all the way to Teddington Lock in West London. It's quite a surprise looking into such a large river at low tide to find it almost empty.

I am writing this post about 30m North of the Thames at Windsor, where the Thames is definitely not interested in tides or the sea. The land hereabouts is best described as "soggy mud", and much of the 200km through which the Thames has flowed to get here is also soggy mud ( this is actually quite a good description for much of Britain ). So, not surprisingly, any flat areas that occur along the Thames are deposition of mud, as sand is in short supply.

But, pre-pandemic, for about 20 Years, I spent several weeks each summer hiking in the western United States. The river basins of the Colorado River, Green River, Salt River and Gila River ( for example ) pass largely through arid sandstone landscapes rather than soggy mud, and ( big surprise ) the rivers are heavily fringed with sand. Not only sand, of course, as the geology of these river valleys is quite varied; but lots of sand, and very little soggy mud. Look on the Internet for images of "Canyonlands", "Bryce Canyon", "Capitol Reef" if you want to get an idea of how different this is from the rivers of western Europe.

What surprises me more is that BG3 seems to set the Chionthar in a sandstone valley setting, and Yartar ( the city the Nautiloid attacks ) seems to be a cross between Mediterranean and Sumerian/Babylonian architectural inflluences, when most other references to the area ( and prevous maps of it ) distinctly suggest western-European-soggy-mud would be more likely.

It's not tidal here in Oxford either (well obvs, since we're further inland) but the meadows and what-not about half a mile from here are quite prone to becoming mud and I've ended up with significantly muddy feet as a result. Not good for running away from the killer cows that like to menace passers-by. Then there's Tewkesbury in the other direction which can be menaced by the Severn in various ways, including tides, all of which seem to result in mud. And as I mentioned earlier, the town I was born in on Tyneside, which was named after mud. There does seem to be a certain common theme, but I can't quite put my finger on it.


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