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What y'all didn't realize is that there is no day/night cycle because the DOS engine doesn't have it and it might be too much work to implement it.

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"The engine doesn't have it" is a poor excuse, because no engine comes with the "day/night cycle button" and it's always a matter of implementing it.

It should also be none of our business to worry about how much work it can be to implement standard features in the genre, but that's another topic for another day.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by Tuco
"The engine doesn't have it" is a poor excuse, because no engine comes with the "day/night cycle button" and it's always a matter of implementing it.

It should also be none of our business to worry about how much work it can be to implement standard features in the genre, but that's another topic for another day.
I know it is. That's the point.
They didn't program the original DOS engine with this feature and now they might not want to do it because it's hard to do. Same with implementing reactions and readying actions. Either this or like anything else, it's their "vision" and these features would make the game worse.

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
What y'all didn't realize is that there is no day/night cycle because the DOS engine doesn't have it and it might be too much work to implement it.

a proper day/night cycle that changes gradually? I accept that. What they could do is have a night map and a day map and switch between them based on the number of long rests, or time since a long rest, etc. there are ways of faking a day/night cycle that would still have the desired effect of making people feel like the world is more alive.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by Danielbda
What y'all didn't realize is that there is no day/night cycle because the DOS engine doesn't have it and it might be too much work to implement it.

a proper day/night cycle that changes gradually? I accept that. What they could do is have a night map and a day map and switch between them based on the number of long rests, or time since a long rest, etc. there are ways of faking a day/night cycle that would still have the desired effect of making people feel like the world is more alive.
Instead of faking it, why not implementing it during the process of making DOS or DOS2? Seriously, its the only CRPGs I can think of that lack day/night cycles, and this breaks immersion.

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Originally Posted by Argyle
Huh? Saradush had day & night cycles, you can even see it on YouTube videos. Night enables many unique things ... infravision, enhanced stealth, Ring of Shooting Stars, will-o-wisps, glowing potion bottles, peeping frogs, ladies/gentlemen of the evening, shadows, etc. Back to the original topic, Baldur's Gate is really two different cities, one under the sun and one under the stars. I do hope we get to see both!

Glad to see we have people who actually played BG2/ToB wink

<The absence of a visible time reference is a flaw in any game claiming to be a RPG>. Yup, hit the nail right on the head.

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I can't deny that I would love to see a clock and a day night cycle in BG3. Having said that, no one here knows what the technical difficulties involved in doing something like that actually are.

The decision has already been made not to do it as it is. So not sure what we can accomplish at this point.

https://wccftech.com/baldurs-gate-3-pax-east-interview-listening-to-fan-feedback-adding-raytracing/


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Based on that article, it sounds like the combination of multi-player and turn-based combat creates the problem for day/night timing. It sort of sounds like the same problem people had with Time Stop in multi-player.

I have no intention of ever using multi-player with BG III.

If we can't get the diurnal cycle, then I propose we see Baldur's Gate city only at night ... perhaps around the winter solstice time, when people decorate their windows and pine trees with tiny colored lights. Magical.

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Originally Posted by Argyle
Based on that article, it sounds like the combination of multi-player and turn-based combat creates the problem for day/night timing. I
Yeah, and we go back in a circle to what what we were saying at the beginning of this very same thread, including that article that is the very same source we were talking about:

Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Riandor
Yep... No Day and Night cycle is quite frankly a design choice I cannot get behind, even understanding the MP limitations that were part of the reason. A way should have been found as I just find a proper Day and night cycle adds a deeper layer of graphical immersion and allows you to play with the light sensitivity aspects of certain races.
it was a very simple limitation to work around in the end: "Freeze the clock for everyone when one of the players is in turn based mode. Make it march again when all the players are in real time".
I mean, the limitation that everyone needs to agree for a long rest (and that no one can be in combat) was already in place, anyway. So it's not like that was going to make a big difference.
Sure, the length of the day (or night) may extend a bit even for the player that was in "real time all the time". But so what?

Sometime I hear the designers at Larian saying things about "design challenges" that make me think of the proverbial "drowning in a glass of water".
Like when one of their lead gameplay designers explained on stream that "Sure, in pen & paper the player can choose to spend his battlemaster points (aka "superiority dice") only after he's sure a hit lands, but that wouldn't work in a videogame because it would break the flow of the action, so... tough luck for him".
Ehr...? What about doing so that you DON'T SPEND THE POINT if you miss the attack, without needing to "break", "pause" or "interrupt" anything?

EDIT - Incidentally that very same article already had one comment I made when it was published suggesting pretty much the same idea.
This also reminds me the whole emotional rollercoaster I went through since they announced D/N cycle wouldn't be a thing: anger and disbelief, slow transition to resignation and acceptance in the following months, occasional new bursts of anger and disappointment as I was playing through the EA and realizing what the lack of a D/N cycle would actually imply in terms of variety, mood, gameplay scenarios, etc.
The bullshit half-baked way camping and long rest currently work doesn't really help to sell the deal any better.

Last edited by Tuco; 28/05/21 06:16 PM.

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Don't want to start a new thread so will ask here.
Now that Larian have rights to do bg3, can they also do a bg2 remake? Like fully voiced, new quests, new characters, new areas, better enhanced graphics, and all?
Even if all above sounds wonderful it may not even beat the original, as it's a masterpiece all in it's own but.. possible yeah?

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I think Beamdog still has the rights to BG II, although I do not know whether those rights are exclusive. Trent Oster was one of the BioWare founders, and it turns out he is also a decent voice actor now. Hmmm, wouldn't it be cool if Larian could get some additional voice acting from Dave Gaider? He used to work in hotel management prior to BioWare, so he might be able to do an excellent innkeeper voice in the city of Baldur's Gate ... at night.

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I think Wizards of the Coast are still the ultimate owners of the Baldur's Gate rights and it's entirely at their discretion.
Also, despise being thrilled that Larian got BG3 at first, I'm not sure I would like to see them of all people remaking BG2 at this point.

It would pain me to even imagine a BG2 with a max party of four, the toilet chain control scheme and no day/night cycle whatsoever.

Last edited by Tuco; 28/05/21 07:09 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by GarippoSensei
Don't want to start a new thread so will ask here.
Now that Larian have rights to do bg3, can they also do a bg2 remake? Like fully voiced, new quests, new characters, new areas, better enhanced graphics, and all?
Even if all above sounds wonderful it may not even beat the original, as it's a masterpiece all in it's own but.. possible yeah?

Remaking BG2 with 2021 sensitivities and stay faithful to the original game? Impossible. All the things that made BG2 great; LIMITED slot base inventory(god I loved this...), TONS of spells/precasting complexities, slower game pace, lots of reading, etc...just would not work with current <I WANT IT ALL EASY AND CONVENIENT> gamers.
Oh and frack money grabbing remakes! Devs, please make original games.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 28/05/21 10:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Originally Posted by GarippoSensei
Don't want to start a new thread so will ask here.
Now that Larian have rights to do bg3, can they also do a bg2 remake? Like fully voiced, new quests, new characters, new areas, better enhanced graphics, and all?
Even if all above sounds wonderful it may not even beat the original, as it's a masterpiece all in it's own but.. possible yeah?

Remaking BG2 with 2021 sensitivities and stay faithful to the original game? Impossible. All the things that made BG2 great; LIMITED slot base inventory(god I loved this...), TONS of spells/precasting complexities, slower game pace, lots of reading, etc...just would not work with current <I WANT IT ALL EASY AND CONVENIENT> gamers.
Oh and frack money grabbing remakes! Devs, please make original games.

It would make sense as long as it is a low-budget or at most medium-budget game. Then they could completely focus on opening the game in a relatively modern way.
A high budget is both a blessing and a curse for games. It supposedly enables the creation of a larger and richer game, at the same time it forces the creators to make many compromises so that the project not only pays for itself, but also earns money for another
When it comes to high-budget games, counting on fans of only a given type of games will in most cases end in a disaster.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
"The engine doesn't have it" is a poor excuse, because no engine comes with the "day/night cycle button" and it's always a matter of implementing it.

It should also be none of our business to worry about how much work it can be to implement standard features in the genre, but that's another topic for another day.

Unreal has a day/night cycle tool called skybox.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
It would make sense as long as it is a low-budget or at most medium-budget game. Then they could completely focus on opening the game in a relatively modern way.
A high budget is both a blessing and a curse for games. It supposedly enables the creation of a larger and richer game, at the same time it forces the creators to make many compromises so that the project not only pays for itself, but also earns money for another
When it comes to high-budget games, counting on fans of only a given type of games will in most cases end in a disaster.
It's hard to tell if this is even remotely true, since it's not like it's been attempted often.
"Hardcore" *** core design with mass market production value is something publishers almost never attempt under the assumption it's risky, rather that something that ACTUALLY proved itself unsuccessful on the market.


*** And here we could start a long debate about what the term even means in practical terms, by the way. Except... Let's NOT.


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Originally Posted by Argyle
I found a screenshot showing that Throne of Bhaal did have day & night ... here is Saradush:

[Linked Image from lparchive.org]

you can see the little time pendulum in the lower left corner, with the night moon waning and the sun coming up soon.

The night time version of Saradush was scripted. It was only available after completing a certain quest. The completion of that quest allowed you to click on the night time version of the city (On the map it was Saradush with a crescent moon)

There was no Day/Night cycle in TOB, just a scripted version of Saradush at night where a specific plot event occurred.

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so then it should be trivial for BG3 to do the same smile

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
so then it should be trivial for BG3 to do the same smile

Depending on the engine trivial can be challenging.

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"There was no Day/Night cycle in TOB, just a scripted version of Saradush at night where a specific plot event occurred."

I am not sure what constitutes a "scripted event", but I just opened up the Throne of Bhaal game (PC version) and played ... I entered Saradush at clock Day 0, Hour 17. Then if I just stand there and do nothing, the clock continues to advance and it eventually becomes night. No trigger event needed, the clock just runs and the sun goes down. The Watcher's Keep has a running clock. The Oasis has a clock, and you can rest there and day/night will cycle with different light levels accordingly. I know this because I just did it with an old save. Same with the North Forest and the Forest of Mir areas ... all of them have normal day/night cycles and you can rest through them. I don't know, maybe there is a difference with console versions of the game, but day/night is definitely a feature in the PC version of ToB, and it's not just in Saradush, either.

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