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I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I'm new to the forums and there are 1000's of pages of prior threads. If there is a dedicated thread for posts like this, someone please link me to the discussion. Thanks!

Speaking as a casual video gamer and hard-core D&D player, this game has too many "overpowered" encounters, and it kills the fun of the game. Most of the encounters in the surface world are fine; challenging at times, but survivable. The Githyanki, however... I'm on my 4th playthrough of the surface world, and I don't even bother to visit them anymore, because by the time my first character gets an action, half my party is dead. The Underdark is where the game gets completely stupid, though. Observe:

1) The encounter with the Duergar is unavoidable, and each member of the Duergar team is more than a match for any PC. They automatically start with surprise, get high ground, and they summon help, AND they routinely violate the 5E rules in ways that make them WAY more powerful (Multi-shot with a crossbow? Exploding arrows at level 4? Infinite uses of Mirror Image?).

2) I've had to face the Minotaurs AND the Bulette, together. When I did, all the mobs completely ignored each other. A Bulette's mean damage on a bite is 30 hp, which is more health than anyone other than Lae'zel has. It bites AFTER using Deadly Leap, so whomever it targets is instantly downed. The Minotaurs somehow get to use Gore and then Multi-attack afterwards (when they don't even have multi-attack as an option).

3) The Spectator should be a CR3 monster (and therefore fairly easy for a L4 party to deal with.) Instead, it has twice as many HP as it should, extra eye rays, more actions than it should (4 eye rays a turn? Really?) and it can summon helpers, each of which is equivalent to a PC...except they get to cheat as well (again, crossbows SHOULD NOT have multi-shot).

I'm sure it gets worse as you get deeper into the Underdark, but I wouldn't know, because by the time I've suffered through all of this, I always delete my save and wait for the next patch to start a new run with a different class/race combo...

As I've read through the forums today, I've seen a lot of people expressing the idea that Larian has no intention of making a "D&D" video game; they're just re-skinning DOS II with Forgotten Realms in order to take advantage of the massive built-in player base from D&D. Honestly, if I had realized that Larian was the same studio behind DOS I wouldn't have spent the money on this game. I loved the original BG games, the Neverwinter Nights series, and especially Icewind Dale. I hated DOS with a passion, for the same reasons listed above (I lasted 16 hours before I deleted the game from my library). Since there's little chance that Larian will give me back the $60 I payed to be a unpaid play-tester for their game, all I can do is everything in my power to get them to change course. I'm sure I speak for MANY people when I say that the only reason I bought this game was to be able to play solo D&D in-between RL D&D sessions. You advertised this as a D&D game; please stay true to your word. TSR and WoTC have already spent 40+ years on the game balance and world-building, all you need to do is write the code to bring it to life. The people who want to play DOS III can just go replay DOS II. All of us who want a REAL D&D experience will thank you endlessly for scratching an itch that has been festering for a decade.

Thank you for reading all the way through this.

Ibrahim

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Hey there,

You're definitely not alone in this, but I still like to hope that every new individual voice on the matter counts, so thanks for taking the time to write this.

If you want to be sure that someone at Larian definitely see what you have to say, I'd recommend taking the time to submit your message to their formal feedback form as well (you can find it Here)

Larian's encounters are built around the presumption that you'll use their cheap, overpowered mechanics which abolish all class distinction, because they're the most effective way to exploit the game. Swen has made it really clear that exploiting and breaking the game, with no regard for investment or immersion is what he views as the 'fun' and 'right' way to play, and this is the design philosophy that the game is following. The encounters become mind-numbingly easy when you approach them from the "Right" way, when you come in with foreknowledge and prior set up, and when you abuse Larian's homebrew mechanics; without doing these things, the result will be very different. Many will agree with you that this is not good game design.

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I thought BG3 EA was a bit easy really. Solasta on the hardest difficulty was a bit more challenging since resting and preparing for fights was a bit trickier but not by much.

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Hi Ibrahim, thanks for voicing your thoughts on combat. A lot of folks agree that something is wrong with combat (some opinions differ on why, but I think at this point combat should be something EA players can agree needs changing).

You might be interested in checking out some of the megathreads.
Link 1 Link 2

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As Niara said, barrelmancy and high-ground/backstab rule the day. No need to bother with much if anything else unless they have a big overhaul of combat in its current state. You can always play some DOS 2 if you want to get some practice in with the system laugh (because it's pretty damn similar, unsurprisingly).

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The encounter difficulty in BG3 depends on your ability NOT to focus on DnD mechanics.
Focus on Larian's homebrew and every encounter is close to very easy.

As a DnD player I guess you had used DnD strategy and possibilities.

This works more or less for most combats even if, according to me it's usually too difficult for a normal game mode.

That said, when you'll learn the mechanics that don't belong to DnD, this difficulty completely change from "+- normal to very difficult" to "very easy to +- normal".

The balance of the game is terrible because the two systems used are not balanced at all with each other.
The majority of players talking about the game hope this will be fix according to this forum and reddit polls.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 02/06/21 08:07 AM.
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Dunno ...
Encounter with Duegar is totally avoidable. O_o
There are mutiple ways to let Bulette fight Minotaurs, without risking your own skin, same as avoid them both.
Spectator dont "summon" helpers, more like de-petrify them. Wich also can be prevented. :-/
And i dunno how it goes in your language, but in mine its advertised as a "game BASED ON D&D", so ... there is suppose to be differences. O_o

I mean ... yes, the game can be tough if you make it tough for yourself. O_o But there is also many ways to make it all lot easier, if you are creative.
And yes, some of options Larian give us (usualy called cheese on this forum) can also make it a lot easier ... even tho its not allways just about them.
And certainly yes, there are some people (i would certainly not say majority of players) around here who would nod so hard so their neck will hurt next norning, when you suggest removal of those mechanics. O_o Would you mind to add survey to your post? It might be interesting to see how many of them is there actualy.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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No need to wait for a poll here to be completed. Someone ran a poll on the BG3 subreddit just last week that asked if people preferred standard D&D combat or Larians modifications to combat. The sample size of 1,200 is good enough and the subreddit has a much wider set of players than this forum so should be more representative of the whole player base.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...etter_dd_or_larians_modified_dd_and_why/

here's the post copied out if you want to skip the subreddit

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Post Title : What's better D&D or Larian's modified D&D? And why?
Post text : I find a lot of people criticising Larian's decision to modify D&D rules and I wonder what does the majority of people think since usually you only hear people with the loudest voice.

Total : 1.2k votes

514 (41.2%) D&D
325 (26.0%) Larian's modified D&D
63 (05.0%) BG1 and BG2 modified D&D
346 (27.7%) Abstain
Voting closed

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if you removed the abstains, the results are 57% D&D and 36% Larian modified D&D. Im not convinced that removing abstains is necessary as the lack of support of any combat is a valid stance but not necessary useful for this particular discussion.

Including abstains (for all points of view), only 1 in 4 voters actively prefer larians changes and excluding abstains (to focus on people who find combat system important), that only rises to a little over 1 in 3 while those who actively prefer D&D rise from 41.2% to 57%.

Hardly a ringing endorsement of the Larians combat modifications and style.

It does seem that the people who would disagree with OP are the minority rather than the majority and the comments within that reddit post support this

Last edited by TestyMcTesterson; 02/06/21 09:55 AM. Reason: for the last sentence
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While I have my share of complains about Larian's implementation of some mechanics, I really don't feel like there are substantial arguments being used here.

Even putting blatant inaccuracies aside (you CAN avoid some of these encounters and/or make them easier for you in several ways) I also happen to disagree on several of your grievances.
Also, encounter design was arguably one of the strongest points for DOS 1 and 2 and not one of its flaws (that would be the shitty randomized itemization and the exceedingly steep power curve on level ups).


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Dunno ...
Encounter with Duegar is totally avoidable. O_o

How ? If you're lucky and/or if you choose the good answers ? Does that could be summarized by "totally avoidable" ?

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
even tho its not allways just about them.

DnD combats are supposed to be playable/enjoyable without having an advantage on every rolls isn't it ?

Is that possible and enjoyable in BG3 ? Isn't missing a real problem if you don't have advantages very often (everytime) ?

I think combats are totally about these modified rules (among other homebrew that "only" have an influence on the balance and the difficulty).

Originally Posted by Tuco
you CAN avoid some of these encounters and/or make them easier for you in several ways

I don't remember how it was in DoS but from what I read here and there, Larian is not known for creating balanced encounters. There are definitely issues with many encounters in BG3 but it's first because the entire system is broken.

Struggle, cheese, hide, be lucky in dialogs or "be creative" - which usually mean use something you don't know / you wouldn't ever think about on your first playthrough (like making the bulette fight the minotaurs, rez dead creatures IF you side with the mushroom AND take the good one in your party, attack the invisible duergar).

Interresting combat design.
Hope everyone will watch the good youtube video and read the good reddit tips before playing the game for the first time.

They won't be able to correctly balance the easier and the more challenging encounters if the system itself is not better balanced.

OP's conclusions may not be good but his overall experience is something we read a lot when a lot of "new players" were still playing the game.

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Most encounters are sadly balanced around cheese, either by expecting the players to use hight advantage, barrels, etc. to their fullest or combats having a specific gimmick Larian wants you to find and exploit like burning webs.
If you want to play Baldurs Gate like a D&D game and not like Larian wants you to its very hard.

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Originally Posted by qwerrecd42
As Niara said, barrelmancy and high-ground/backstab rule the day. No need to bother with much if anything else unless they have a big overhaul of combat in its current state. You can always play some DOS 2 if you want to get some practice in with the system laugh (because it's pretty damn similar, unsurprisingly).
Never used either in this game. And the battles were challenging, but not crazy so at least in my playthroughs.

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Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Originally Posted by qwerrecd42
As Niara said, barrelmancy and high-ground/backstab rule the day. No need to bother with much if anything else unless they have a big overhaul of combat in its current state. You can always play some DOS 2 if you want to get some practice in with the system laugh (because it's pretty damn similar, unsurprisingly).
Never used either in this game. And the battles were challenging, but not crazy so at least in my playthroughs.

Could you record one of the "hard" combat in which you never use highground and backstab and show us please ?

Just to see how it goes.

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So when I first played the game I got my butt handed to me a bunch, until I figured out all the things I was doing wrong. This game, like all Larian games, has a learning curve.

Just for context I don't use barrelmancy, or throw (potions or people) and I try to play as close to 5E rules as possible. People will say you "have to" abuse those mechanics and the truth is you really don't.

However it also depends on how you define "game" for some people a game is simply an interactive experience with a story. For others a game is something that challenges them to learn, grow and do better AND has a compelling story. Larian falls heavily on the latter definition when they create games. I am not saying objectively that either is better, most games though fall under the former definition.

I find it helps to play with other people, so if you get a chance and don't mind being social I would encourage you head to the Larian discord and join a multiplayer game.

Anyway, I wrote up this list for new players some time ago and its based on all the mistakes I made when I first started.

1) Using True Strike. Don't do it. Its worthless at low levels.

2) Using the Gloves of the Absolute without the Mark of the Absolute branded into you. This casts Bane on yourself, over and over. You get the Mark
from priestess Gut

3) Odd attribute levels - like 13, 15, 17. Useless. 17 is the worst. With a few minor exceptions (Warlock + Volo's Eye for example) its a huge waste of points.

4) Using weapons you are not proficient in or not ideal for the character. Example: Shadowheart, throw her mace away and give her a dagger/shield and a Light Crossbow. Make sure you are proficient in everything you equip.

5) Ending my turn facing away from mobs (you are giving them free advantage on you) - I see this a lot with new players.

6) Not taking the high ground and holding it or attacking from high ground and Not using stealth to scout out areas to find the best area.

7) Ending my turn with my ranged weapon in hand instead of my shield (if I have one) and melee weapon because 1) you don't get an Attack of Opportunity against another mob that moves past you or away unless you have a melee weapon equipped - and 2) a shield only protects you if you are holding it and not your ranged weapon- there is a little switch that lets you toggle what you are currently holding.

8) Not understanding the Attribute that affects to-hit values the most; for Finesse/ranged weapons Dexterity, For all other weapons - Strength. Cleric spells Wisdom, Wizard Spells Intelligence, Warlock spells Charisma, Druid spells Wisdom

9) Understanding how Concentration works when casting spells.

10) Not understanding the importance of Darkvision in to-hit and who has Darkvision and who does not (Elves, Half Elves, Drow, Dwarves, tieflings have it and Humans, Githyanki*, Halflings do NOT have it) Sunwalkers gift (Ring, Underdark vendor) gives you Darkvision, Warlocks can choose it at 2nd level as an invocation (Devils sight), Wizards can cast it on themselves or others and it lasts until long rest (No concentration)

11) Its important to know that breaking a chest usually destroys its contents. Don't do that.

12) If you are a Warlock or Beast master Ranger make sure you summon your familiar outside of combat so you can use it in combat.


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The game isn't that hard if you know what you're doing.
You can easily complete almost all fights without using the so-called cheese. Fights created specifically for level 5, such as gith and bulette, can be problematic. In the case of the bridge, I failed to defeat them without escaping to the higher level, but this fight is not for level 4.
In the remaining fights I didnt use barrels or I didnt position myself to gain an advantage (of course when the opponent turned his back on his own, I used it).
There were quite a few tough fights, some I was lucky enough or otherwise (one shot from Flinda's crit).
The most important thing is to realize that the game is designed to let you rest after each fight.

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Originally Posted by TestyMcTesterson
No need to wait for a poll here to be completed. Someone ran a poll on the BG3 subreddit just last week that asked if people preferred standard D&D combat or Larians modifications to combat. The sample size of 1,200 is good enough and the subreddit has a much wider set of players than this forum so should be more representative of the whole player base.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...etter_dd_or_larians_modified_dd_and_why/

It does seem that the people who would disagree with OP are the minority rather than the majority and the comments within that reddit post support this

Ok so a good sample size of a population is 10%. There are 76k people on the subreddit and of those you have 1,200 responses which is a about 2% or 1/5 of what would constitute a good sample.

But that's not even really accurate because you have about 2-5 million people who have purchased Bg3 since EA launched. The people on the subreddit are the most dedicated and involved of the playerbase. So they represent a sample with a "high possible degree of bias" towards certain results.

The hardcore gamers want a more accurate D&D RAW experience. I am one of those people. I am not going to assume the majority of players feel that way.

At the end of the day I have agency and can create the experience I want to have one way or the other.


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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Originally Posted by TestyMcTesterson
No need to wait for a poll here to be completed. Someone ran a poll on the BG3 subreddit just last week that asked if people preferred standard D&D combat or Larians modifications to combat. The sample size of 1,200 is good enough and the subreddit has a much wider set of players than this forum so should be more representative of the whole player base.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat...etter_dd_or_larians_modified_dd_and_why/

It does seem that the people who would disagree with OP are the minority rather than the majority and the comments within that reddit post support this

Ok so a good sample size of a population is 10%. There are 76k people on the subreddit and of those you have 1,200 responses which is a about 2% or 1/5 of what would constitute a good sample.

But that's not even really accurate because you have about 2-5 million people who have purchased Bg3 since EA launched. The people on the subreddit are the most dedicated and involved of the playerbase. So they represent a sample with a "high possible degree of bias" towards certain results.

The hardcore gamers want a more accurate D&D RAW experience. I am one of those people. I am not going to assume the majority of players feel that way.

At the end of the day I have agency and can create the experience I want to have one way or the other.

That's not the thread but no, he's right.
Think about samples for elections. The margin error is (slightly) reduced with a greatest sample but the tendency remains the same.

In exemple polls with a sample of 1200 people about the american election of 2020 give the same tendency than polls with 35000 voters. The margin error is different (from 0 to 4%) but it wouldn't make a huge difference in this specific reddit poll.

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10% or 1,000 is a good MAXIMUM sample size not a good MINIMUM sample size so yeah 1,200 is a good sample size even though it is above 1,000 because there are a number of abstains there.

Here is a website that covers the topic: https://www.tools4dev.org/resources/how-to-choose-a-sample-size

and here is the relevant section for you.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The minimum sample size is 100

Most statisticians agree that the minimum sample size to get any kind of meaningful result is 100. If your population is less than 100 then you really need to survey all of them.

A good MAXIMUM sample size is usually 10% as long as it does not exceed 1000

A good maximum sample size is usually around 10% of the population, as long as this does not exceed 1000. For example, in a population of 5000, 10% would be 500. In a population of 200,000, 10% would be 20,000. This exceeds 1000, so in this case the maximum would be 1000.

Even in a population of 200,000, sampling 1000 people will normally give a fairly accurate result. Sampling more than 1000 people won’t add much to the accuracy given the extra time and money it would cost.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

As to collecting larger data sets from the wider player base on general opinions, I completely agree. Larian should have run multiple surveys after launch and should also be doing it now. It's crazy that they are ignoring such an easy tool for feedback.

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Originally Posted by TestyMcTesterson
Total : 1.2k votes

514 (41.2%) D&D
325 (26.0%) Larian's modified D&D
63 (05.0%) BG1 and BG2 modified D&D
346 (27.7%) Abstain
Voting closed
I actualy was not even curious about %, as about amount of people supporting either option ...
When people say here that "majority demand" and i keep seeing the same five nicks over and over, i wondered if that "majority" counts at least hundert people, or more like twenty. laugh

Asuming 1,2k would be "enough" it may seem that you are right ...
On the other hand, Larian have statistic from hunderts of thousand players (google sais that "over a million coppies was sold" so even if only 1/10 of players would allow Larian to gather the data, it would still be much better sample) ... and they see how much they are using their modified rules.
Can you honestly blame them to ignore 514 voters, when they see that (for example) 514 000 people seem to be quite fine with it? laugh

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Dunno ...
Encounter with Duegar is totally avoidable. O_o
How ? If you're lucky and/or if you choose the good answers ? Does that could be summarized by "totally avoidable" ?
Well ...
Yes, its one of possibilities.

You can talk to them (also i would not call picking the good answers the matter of luck, that would be RNG ... picking the corect answers is more like matter of knowing what you do), you can sneak past them, if you are cheesy enough you can sneak close to them and then kill them all (maybe except one or two?) by pushing them into the abyss (i tryed this one, it was fun). smile
Also you can approach them from the other side, so they dont even have high ground if you feel that combat is unavoidable.
And when another parts of Act 1 will be added, you will not even meet them at all. I know this one is curently impossible, but you get the idea. laugh

So, if you have at least one option except fight, yes i would dare to say that fight is avoidable. smile
And here you have more than one. laugh

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
even tho its not allways just about them.
DnD combats are supposed to be playable/enjoyable without having an advantage on every rolls isn't it ?
Sure, that is why i say its "not" allways just about them ...

My point is that if you are running head first against every encounter and keep loosing, you probably do something wrong.
Have you ever heard in DnD session Ranger or Rogue say something like "i shall go scout ahead" ?

Take that Minotaur encounter for example ...
Yes i know im using my knowledge from previous playthrough, but when your rogue go "scout ahead" preferably with blessing from Shadowheart, to maximize your chances that your will not be spotet ... you can easily lure Bulette to fight Minotaurs ... true, it may seem kinda pointless since Minotaurs heal once fight is done, after last patch, so now you need to time your entering the fight properly ...
No "advantage on every roll" used.
That is what im talking about. smile

Originally Posted by Pandemonica
Never used either in this game. And the battles were challenging, but not crazy so at least in my playthroughs.
+1 ... im not so dedicated to "never" use them tho ... but i seek high ground and backstab more like rarely.
Barells are boring to prepare for me, so i use them usualy only to kill that Cambion general in tutorial ... but i never had the patience as that guy who blow up whole goblin camp. laugh


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by TestyMcTesterson
10% or 1,000 is a good MAXIMUM sample size not a good MINIMUM sample size so yeah 1,200 is a good sample size even though it is above 1,000 because there are a number of abstains there.

Here is a website that covers the topic: https://www.tools4dev.org/resources/how-to-choose-a-sample-size

and here is the relevant section for you.

----------------------------------------------------------------

The minimum sample size is 100

Most statisticians agree that the minimum sample size to get any kind of meaningful result is 100. If your population is less than 100 then you really need to survey all of them.

A good MAXIMUM sample size is usually 10% as long as it does not exceed 1000

A good maximum sample size is usually around 10% of the population, as long as this does not exceed 1000. For example, in a population of 5000, 10% would be 500. In a population of 200,000, 10% would be 20,000. This exceeds 1000, so in this case the maximum would be 1000.

Even in a population of 200,000, sampling 1000 people will normally give a fairly accurate result. Sampling more than 1000 people won’t add much to the accuracy given the extra time and money it would cost.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

As to collecting larger data sets from the wider player base on general opinions, I completely agree. Larian should have run multiple surveys after launch and should also be doing it now. It's crazy that they are ignoring such an easy tool for feedback.

Yes, but you still need a methodology that gets them a usable, unbiased sample. Right now your usable sample size on reddit is 0. And you are right, Larian is the only one who can conduct a poll against the people who have purchased the product.


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