Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General RIP the patch every 2 weeks

How do you criticize "the game" when it has yet to ship? Nobody on planet Earth, to my, knowledge is currently playing the complete BG3 game. We're all playing the EA, which we knew--or should have known--would be restricted to the first chapter in the game out of three or maybe even four total chapters. That is all the content the EA will contain during its lifespan. (Lamenting that "I should have read about what I was buying first," is certainly no excuse...;)) Larian has done an EA on a number of its games and they are all the same--you get the first chapter, or so--and nothing else until the full game ships.

And really, the people whose criticism of the EA is that Larian should have used the same engine as shipped in the original BG2 is about the most ludicrous criticism imaginable, considering how long ago BG2 was. It's like complaining that BG2 was shipped using an improved BG1 engine, etc. I don't even understand that particular criticism. BG2 shipped 21 years ago--I can run it at 4k and the graphics look like crap...although 21 years ago I quite enjoyed it! Anyway...

Do I like having to wait a year or more after paying for the EA for the full game? Of course not. I definitely don't like it. Swen delayed launching the EA for some time because of how slowly the progress was moving. Frankly, I wish he had delayed the EA for another six months or so, which would have put the full game shipping within six months of the EA, maybe, which I judge to be about right and probably what Swen had in mind at the start.

I think that's at the crux of the discontent, such as it is. It is frustrating. No argument there.

But what I want to see are the patches and then I'll look at the community update describing them. Telling people what is coming at some point in the future is in no way comparable to providing those updates in the appropriate patches. It's a mistake to think that it is.

So where are the smaller patches every two weeks that would not obsolete prior saves? That was something that was communicated that has yet to come to pass. However, if that isn't feasible then I would recommend saying that it isn't feasible so we could all forget it.

I guess I'll sum up by saying that I don't necessarily agree with a lot of the criticism, but I can certainly understand it.

Easy, here I'll show you.

Shadowheart is a cringy emo. do you think that after 30 hours of hating her in Act I, her character will just completely change in every aspect in the final acts?

This reminds me of Final Fantasy XIII. People defending the game saying "it gets good 50 hours in" as if that excuses the first 50 hours from being shit. The fact is, we've all paid money to be a part of this early access, it's nonsense to say that we need to wait until the game is completed to have criticisms. Also, I can't think of very many games that started one way and then had a complete 180 in terms of characters/mechanics/gameplay/etc. What we're seeing now is most likely the core game, it's not as if the future acts are going to be a different game.

I don't see this game coming before end of 2022/early 2023.

Even if the game was more done when the EA launched, I would still have said 2022 as the likely date of release. The point of the EA was to test things and see how the community likes and dislikes them, and they have gotten a ton of feedback on things to change. If the EA was more done when they released it, arguably it would have been more work to change core things and they wouldn't have had such direct feedback on the evil companions.

I'm trying to genuinely understand the two-bites rhetoric, but since you don't actually pay twice for anything (if you bought EA, you already have the full game. It's just a pre-order with some early playability), I don't really see what you mean by that.

i assume they meant two bites, meaning two big release hypes, the early access rush and the release day rush? maybe?

Ultimately, would they get that many new purchases for dividing it up...?

They are not going to release on Friday, so we are back to wait for Tuesday as best case scenario. But it will probably take more.

I'm not sure that would amount to all that many more people, perhaps a bit more because of the "hype" but you'd likely have mostly the same audience in two halves of willing to play an unfinished game and wanting to play a finished one. And if there is increase from two hypes, it would not be significant enough to dedicate large parts of the development resources to this EA process. To me, the most likely explanation for the EA is in fact the one they stated where they wanted feedback on everything. And I'll choose to believe that at least until the next update, where I might have to reevaluate my opinions.

They have done updates on a Saturday before... there is always hope?

Can't remember any?
All the ones released so far have been between Tuesday and Thursday and always released around 19:00 (7p.m.) or so by Central Europe timezone, as far as I can recall.

There's also a good reason for that: as a developer if you can help it you want to avoid releasing a patch on a Friday evening, only to NOT be available at the office during the weekend in the eventuality some last minute emergency maintenance would be required.

Maybe they'll surprise us? randomly, does anyone know if Larian has anything at E3 this year, like any announcements or the such?

They aren't listed as participating anywhere, but a lot of people are hanging to this hope.
I wouldn't expect anything, frankly.

And while some minor shows (i.e. the PC Gaming Show organized by PCG) may be starved for decent content, E3 isn't exactly the place where you go to hype up an update for a game already available in Early Access, generally speaking.

That's fair, I was mainly curious for if there was anything backing the hope for it to be E3 as the time for the big announcements.

It was communicated?
Can you provide the source?

Since if you bother enough to see OP ot this wery threath, there was specificly told that Larian never promised it ... it was just autor's expectation that was proven wrong ...
And i must say i kinda doubt that Larian promised something later, since they failed to provide it in the past.

Since you used Final Fantasy as an example ...
Did you play FF-7 ? I was thinking that Aerith will be my favourite character in the game ... well.

It depends ...
- For one, as far as i know, we didnt paid money to be a part of early acess ... we paid money for the game, and since we paid now, we are allowed to be part of early acess for free. O_o There is huge difference even if that may not seem that way.
And we were multiple times told to rather wait, until EA will be done, if we want to have absolutely clear idea about what game we are about to buy. That is also quite important.
- And for two, it depend on topic of criticism ... i mean, complaints about high ground, backstab advantage and such stuff are quite allright i would say, but how do you want to criticic story? O_o (And by "YOU" i dont mean you specificly, just to be clear ... but there was some topics about this.)

This is good argument, but lets not forget we were not promised a patch ... but only community update.
Wich as far as i know, should not need any maintenance. O_o

I have a quibble about this statement. We kinda did buy into the EA, otherwise it would not have been released as an EA title. We paid money for both, reasoning the EA as a sort of Preorder bonus we can play now with the added benefits of the promise of our feedback influencing the final product. But we were in fact told to wait if we did not like an incomplete product, but i don't think that devalues any of the constructive criticism.

Constructive certainly not ... that kind is even desired as far as i know.

I bet you thought you were being clever here.


"...Don't really exist." would be the only appropriate way to end that sentence.

But feel free to keep beating that strawman to a bloody pulp if it makes you feel better about yourself.
Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously when you do.

Posting a definition here to clarify the reasons for feedback everyone is seeing on lack of communication and complaints.

Early access, also known as early funding, alpha access, alpha founding, or paid alpha, is a funding model in the video game industry by which consumers can purchase and play a game in the various pre-release development cycles, such as pre-alpha, alpha, and/or beta, while the developer is able to use those funds to continue further development on the game. Those that pay to participate typically help to debug the game, provide feedback and suggestions, and may have access to special materials in the game. The early-access approach is a common way to obtain funding for indie games, and may also be used along with other funding mechanisms, including crowdfunding. Many crowdfunding projects promise to offer access to alpha and/or beta versions of the game as development progresses; however, unlike some of these projects which solicit funds but do not yet have a playable game, all early access games offer an immediately playable version of the unfinished game to players.

By that definition the game is considered in a testing phase to provide funding for completion of the game. With the intent that people will have full access to the content from the game as its developed. Technically its an early alpha version of the game as theres no other definition you can put on it as a beta test would be testing a completed version of the game with debugging to fix issues. However the term itself is very misleading. The biggest misleading concept is the extent in which playability is expected / determined is more or less based on what most companies determine as early access. I could give several examples but most basically are more progressive and interactive with audiences.

The idea and reason people are upset is mostly because the indication given with early access to the game is that people presume that ea is beta testing its generally what the idea is they get but its more alpha state testing however companies are generally more interactive and responsive during alpha testing phases of development to a game. Which is where there is the misleading representation it should have been advertised as Prolong testing. There is a video where larion stated that the expected full release was 1 year after the EA testing. However I personally wouldn't hold them to that expectation with a pre-release purchase for early access as delays do happen and its covid.

Same time the slow release of new content I would hold them accountable for as the way its advertised in ea is alpha testing even by the defninition of early access. Which does indicate your seeing regular content added. However it reflects extremely poorly on them to not communicate. There is a lot of good publicity at the moment from people who just dabbed there toes in to come back and play it at a later time but people who have been actively waiting for content to play it heavily during the early access the publicity is generally much more negative.

Its like comparing people who buy a game for a single play through to comparing people who are going to play your game repeatedly for the next 2-3 years and buy all your dlc content as it gets released. The single playthrough people being the ones giving the positive review vs the active players reviewing it negatively.

There are a lot of poor examples arguing pace of content release - Use the older engine ... em that does not work for a modern game. Not to mention the rights to that software may be propritary to the company that originally designed the software for it. It was semi indicated it would only be the first chapter during release announcements originally that majority of early access would be limited... However if you do read the steam page it does say only chapter 1 will be playable in early access however at the same time it does say that the remaining classes and races would get added in throughout early access checked like 10 minutes ago to validate that. It doesnt really well define chapter 1 / 2 / 3 in the initial play just that its roughtly 25 hours of playable content. However at the same time it indicates the entire game would be playable by OCT 6 2021 which is something in the same perspective they could be held to as they had a clear full release date posted on the steam page.

That being considered the biggest arguement I would be pushing regarding content release periods and early access would be the buy button should say pre-order not buy despite it being early access posting which is something more to argue with steam if you got it on steam rather than larion. However lack of communication and updates during EA is something I think is a reasonable arguement from anyone based on pace of the rival companies responses to similar issues. I personally have submitted feedback on other titles with a much more positive response to feedback and interactive response which is something larion does lack. Without being specific as to what and where because it doesn't really need to be brought up.

With soon being a very relative term as another fault. Saying we should have a new patch coming soon should be more defined in its response time like a this is what were working on with a target date of this which is what people come to expect from companies that want a postive review that I can provide several dozen examples on myself. A perfect example of this is iksar aka dean ayala from the HS community who is the lead developer from HS and interacts once per week with the community on twitter taking feedback and responses from the community and actively responds to questions and comments for about an hour. While not everyone gets a responses you get some general interaction and answers to questions. Similarly with Owlcat, Entertainment Forge and several other companies.

Would I play BG 3 on release still probably would I have bought the ea over a different game with way content has gone during EA no. I would recommend different games instead because of the poor communication and lack of interaction from larion as well as regular updates. When I am asked about it thats exactly what I tell anyone asking if its worth getting I say honestly I would not bother updating it or buying a new copy if you have it as this time I would at least way till you get news about the next patch before considering it if its not a huge patch I would probably hold off and go get something else that will chew up more of your time for the 79.99 your paying for it you can go get more value for what your spending from other companies at this time there are no extra perks or anything your getting with early access to the game currently. Compared to going and purchasing for example ashes of creation early access and getting a unique mount and a bunch of other things for having put into the early access version of the game amongst alot of other perks most companies give out for participating in early access parts of the game. That does not mean I think the game is bad just that I would advise people avoid buying into the early access or any future early access releases from Larion due to poor experience despite a potentially solid game during early access.

Steamworks even defines it differently. It is not Alpha, it is not Beta.

"Early Access is a tool to develop your game with the community by giving them access to your title before it is officially released."

Even by Steam works rules, they cannot promise things that are not in EA release that may/may not meet future expectations.


So I appreciate the effort you put in your post, it is at its base, incorrect.

* And please, provide your several dozen examples as you have stated. Considering you are stating 84 games have done it so differently and told their EA players ever detailed aspect of what they are doing, and when they are going to release a patch. I can't wait. We are not shareholders, we are not their managers.