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Originally Posted by Merry Mayhem
[...] MORE BIG & FLASHY STUFF! streamers need stuff to meme about!
Now that they're such a big name and have much more media exposure, this is understandable. With streamer influence being such a big factor nowadays, it's only natural that you want to create simple, in-your-face "flashy" stuff that can be easily shown and appreciated on stream. You may call something a "cheap laugh", but to many in the general public that's enough to get them excited and to try the game. This may be disappointing but from a business standpoint, it makes sense. Even memes can help make the game more popular, meaning more people hear about it, becoming curious and wanting to try the game out.

Originally Posted by Tuco
It seems to me like a counterproductive strategy. If your user base is vocally asking for something and you are actually listening to them and doing what they asked for (whatever he's referring about) it wouldn't just help to give everyone peace of mind if you were going to be open about it?
This probably means they're going to adjust things, but the major stuff, the core system, main frame, will be the same.


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Originally Posted by RutgerF
I'm already waiting for Mr. Vincke to announce something along these lines:
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You all were very vocal, so we decided to listen to our telemetry instead. As such:
  • You seem to have no problems dispatching the HP-bloated goblins using the height advantage that we so wisely added to the game, so we will be increasing the HP buff to enemies. Have fun!
  • No one is seemingly using the Bless spell, so this one, and several other Cleric spells will have to go. We don't want to overwhelm our players with multitudes of choices.
  • Also, the Multi-Attack will be made unavailable for PCs because our telemetry shows that, for some reason, nobody is currently using it.

Haha yup. Saddly prob true?!
Lets not forget:
"We will not add any other playable NPCs so we can concentrate on the current ones to be AAA PERFECT!"
"Telemetry seems to indicate people prefer a smaller sized peni...uuuh..party. So <Menage a trois (threesome)> it is!!"
"Food and drugs will now replace all cleric spells."
"Double jump action and fart action than can be used with a lit candle or dipping for explosion/poison effect."

Man cant wait for the next panel from hell. Its going to be HELLARIOUS.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 19/06/21 06:33 AM.
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Yo guys, wtf. Sven literally went from " Usually our EA lasts 1 year, so maybe we will manage to do the same with BG3 " to " MAYBE 2022, but I'm not sure".

Like he literally thinks about +2 years of development time compared to his initial expectations. Of course they made changes to their initial plans.

No point being harsh to peoplde from Larian.

Really curious what the next update will bring. And the next panel from Hell. And until we get it.... BG2 is still there waiting for you ;0


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Originally Posted by virion
Yo guys, wtf. Sven literally went from " Usually our EA lasts 1 year, so maybe we will manage to do the same with BG3 " to " MAYBE 2022, but I'm not sure".

Like he literally thinks about +2 years of development time compared to his initial expectations. Of course they made changes to their initial plans.

No point being harsh to peoplde from Larian.

Really curious what the next update will bring. And the next panel from Hell. And until we get it.... BG2 is still there waiting for you ;0

I honestly don't care about the overall development time. Anyone with any sort of project management sense immediately recognized the game is going to be in EA for at least a few years. What is bothering us is the total lack of communication on Larians part in keeping us updated. We just ended almost 5 months of radio silence for Sven to basically tell us nothing new. He said they are working on things based on feedback, but refuses to tell us what. It's the lack of communication for no real apparent reason that's the issue. Not the extended development time.

Just to be clear.

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I would love to get some updates and havent done much in game for a couple of months now. Gaming in general has been pretty blah. Right now this game feels too limited and thats my main issue as the class restrictions, low level, and inability to min/max or roll stats makes the game feel meh. That being said I would love a timeline or current projects update from them. For all I hate on other game companies, I can at least get a broad "heres what we are planning in the next few months" from Scopely while they stealthy find ways to subvert the gaming community while blood letting their player's wallets. And timeline/more communication aside, at this point I would rather them spend the time to get it right than a quick release that still feels like it should be early release. Dark Alliances dropped this week and looks terrible, Magic Legends dropped a month ago and the reviews only got positive when reviewers had played 10 to 20 hours and noted how bad the first hours were. Its a game so bad it gave its players Stockholm syndrome. This game isnt that level of bad so I hope things get corrected and more acknowledgment to address the community with what they are doing and what the expected timeline is would be a good first step. You can miss the time goals just let us know. If you expect to have barbarians and monks by August and it doesnt happen you can update and say September, just give us something.

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Originally Posted by Sir Dent
inability to min/max or roll stats makes the game feel meh.

Rolling stats in a videogame is borderline cheating, because in the actual tabletop environment, where rolling stats is sometimes used (not always, my DM prefers standart array only for example), you dont get unlimited rerolls. Unlimited rerolls make no sense, you might as well use an editor to give yourself overpowered stats if basic pointbuy is too low for you.

Last edited by Alyssa_Fox; 23/06/21 11:51 AM.
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Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Rolling stats in a videogame is borderline cheating, because in the actual tabletop environment, where rolling stats is sometimes used (not always, my DM prefers standart array only for example), you dont get unlimited rerolls. Unlimited rerolls make no sense, you might as well use an editor to give yourself overpowered stats if basic pointbuy is too low for you.

Rolling stats though is still part of the feel of what makes a Dungeons and Dragons video game feel like a Dungeons and Dragons video game. Yes there has been a movement under Wizards to remove the stat rolls but for older fans the dice roll is an important part of character building. This was the way the first 2 Baldurs gate games were (and dragonspear) and yes you could easily put an auto roller on and get thousands of rerolls which is outside of the games design. But in the games design was saved rolls so you could roll over and over again and if you wanted to try to go for a 90+ in your summed stats, then you could roll for an hour or however long you want to try and take your best. But it wasnt just BG1/2 The first DnD game I played was the Eye of the Beholder series (still recommend if you have a DOS emulator) where the stats were rolled but after the stats were rolled you could adjust them without restrictions so if you wanted all 18s with an 18/00 you just clicked the stats up.

Translation from the table top game this is usually done by modifying the way rolls are done and most gms allow some sort of modification to the stat rolling guidelines in the books, and the various editions have changed their guidelines to give players more options from the 1st ed 3D6 down the stat column, in order, and I only ever had one DM do that to their players, whom didnt have much fun being stuck playing characters with so many bad stats, though it could be argued that being able to choose where to put the stats, going to 4D6, and 4D6 drop the 1s and rolling multiple sets of stats and choosing one feels like DnD, being stuck playing a Captain Above Average does not so much.

And to tie this back to the OP, I still hope that the suggestion that we will one day get to roll stats comes to fruition before the full release, as it can create balancing issues, especially if a reroll option is available. Maybe if you want to keep the feeling of cheating down (still dont consider this cheating historically in DnD video games). Make the stats available at the time of character generation with no actual roll, game generates the rolls and when you click the stats page the first time and can assign the rolls to each stat. I wouldnt like having to roll a few dozen characters to get an 18 but if thats what the player base wants i can get by playing DnD Vanilla Edition.

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Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Originally Posted by Sir Dent
inability to min/max or roll stats makes the game feel meh.
Rolling stats in a videogame is borderline cheating, because in the actual tabletop environment, where rolling stats is sometimes used (not always, my DM prefers standart array only for example), you dont get unlimited rerolls. Unlimited rerolls make no sense, you might as well use an editor to give yourself overpowered stats if basic pointbuy is too low for you.
You cant look at this like that ...
Name any mechanique, and i bet with some time we can find some way to exploit it ...

The main expectation is you will not use exploits, bcs the only effect such behaviour would have is ruining your own game in the end.


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Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Originally Posted by Sir Dent
inability to min/max or roll stats makes the game feel meh.

Rolling stats in a videogame is borderline cheating, because in the actual tabletop environment, where rolling stats is sometimes used (not always, my DM prefers standart array only for example), you dont get unlimited rerolls. Unlimited rerolls make no sense, you might as well use an editor to give yourself overpowered stats if basic pointbuy is too low for you.


It can be exploited but same time having distributed stats the way its done sets limitations to it that isnt present in any other dnd game currently released. A better balance would be simply giving 2 options where if you re-roll stats more than twice you cant access any achievements added to the game additionally you could disable it as like a difficulty feature. But it is something alot of people do like having that option to vary up characters as typically a 4d6 method is going to net your character on average ability score counts around 75-83 vs standard array with bg 3 is going to cap you at 75. So most of the time your ability scores are going to be below average at 15 - 14 - 13 - 12 - 11 -10 also the game limits you to raising an ability socre to 15 where standad dnd lets you go to 18 if you want.

I myself when dming always use to allow roll 4d6 if your roll is under 75 total ill give 1 reroll and you can +1 / -2 if you want to adjust a stat. So less people complain and cry over bad rolls but its rare youll see anyone roll below a 75. But you do see some really low scores show up time to time and some above average rolls some of the time. Its what you see in most parties as you get alot of people just wont play if there scores are like 10 9 10 15 8 6. You could also be rolling for several hours trying to get 2 18's its not that common and if you do it will often come with 1 score of like a 6.

Also currently the game lacks 90% of the half feats you can take for +1 ability score and something beneficial like slasher / piercer / crusher or Shadow touched / Fey Touched which is most of how people get ability score benefits in 5E without taking full bonuses they take the half feat and another bonus cause the half feats are better than most regular feats when you get a +1 twice to the right stats over course of 2 feats. Alot of the feats were just meh and the +2 to an ability score was only impactful if you rolled really low for some classes like a barbarian whos using armor might not care after hers got his str and con maxed out. so having those extra feats just gave more options to people that the rolling system helps counter balance that. Some classes are impacted more by ability scores being limited.

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Something to consider with a mechanic is "How easy is it to exploit this?" Exploiting something like shove takes nearly no effort and trivializes encounters. But exploiting rolls is a bit more tedious as it is luck based and can take forever as well as not providing as much benefit as one would think, as numbers is only a part of dnd and can't compensate for bad play not does it guarantee hits. So as much as I dislike mechanics being easily abused, I think rolling isn't as abuseable as it would seem, or at least that is in my experience. Stats still matter though and one in theory could roll an 18 in everything ending up with a character good at everything, the most I've done is roll an 18 in 4 stats when physically rolling in pnp (though I think I got straight 12s one time... My luck is very... Odd. Also decided to not play a character who had 3 3s in his statline with only one stat above 10 one time, rolling can really backfire...)

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Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Originally Posted by Sir Dent
inability to min/max or roll stats makes the game feel meh.

Rolling stats in a videogame is borderline cheating, because in the actual tabletop environment, where rolling stats is sometimes used (not always, my DM prefers standart array only for example), you dont get unlimited rerolls. Unlimited rerolls make no sense, you might as well use an editor to give yourself overpowered stats if basic pointbuy is too low for you.

nonsense, then grinding easy monsters in an rpg is borderline cheating. They both take time and no skill

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I know people are overdefensive about this topic but I happen to agree.
"Rolling for stats" in a videogame equates basically to beg the player to take few minutes to exploit the system.

Why should anyone settle for "point buy" when you can get consistently higher numbers across the board (that basically ignore racial restrictions too) by taking four-five minutes to reroll a bunch of dices?

Last edited by Tuco; 23/06/21 02:56 PM.

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Going back to the original Baldur's Gate 1/2 experiences. My original character in 1 I didnt roll exploit rerolls, but I did go through the game multiple times and imported him to BG2. The issue being, there were tomes and manuals in the game, meaning you could bump your stats to max fairly easily if you played through the game a few times. Will we get tomes and manuals in this game? Who knows but if we have the import export character system, and you import a character into multi player with a manual of gainful exercise, hand off the book and reimport the character with a new book then export with two books, then repeat ad nauseum until you have a full inventory of books to max your bad stats to maximum. Theres always going to be loopholes but how Larian addresses it can be done. Why not build in the multiplayer system with character generated restrictions and achievements. Dont want imported fully geared characters, just fresh characters with generic stats, click the boxes. want a quick run with fully geared people to see how fast you can finish the game? Let people have it as well. Want to see if you can make a character on 3D6 straight stats, no rerolls Congrats heres your achievement trophy. Why not give multiple options to people.

Also sorry to OP for driving this a bit off topic, but it goes back to the timeframe and expectations I had on a game and not having heard anything on stat rolls since a brief mention in an interview a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
I know people are overdefensive about this topic but I happen to agree.
"Rolling for stats" in a videogame equates basically to beg the player to take few minutes to exploit the system.

Why should anyone settle for "point buy" when you can get consistently higher numbers across the board (that basically ignore racial restrictions too) by taking four-five minutes to reroll a bunch of dices?

And what's the problem ?

It's not like if the entire game was balanced arround OP abiliites. Don't do it if you don't like it grin

I personnaly love rolling abilities because it gives me more versatility when creating builds. In exemple create a correct paladin build with a (sub)race that doesn't have charisma bonuses.
Also because it makes combats a bit more fluent (missing less often) and not "so much" easier if have your own limits.

When rolling mine is 18+ in my main ability, 16+ in the second one... Then nothing under 10^^

Last edited by Maximuuus; 23/06/21 04:39 PM.

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Positives of Rolling for Stats
  • fun
  • enables detailed character customization


Negatives of Rolling for Stats
  • can create OP characters relative to the game. However, this is one of the situations where "don't use it if you don't like it" is actually applicable. It's the same as save-scumming. Also in BG3, Larian's homebrew ~overwhelms character stats, making optimized characters closer in power level to "average" characters than PnP.
  • can create OP characters relative to other players. However, this is irrelevant if you're playing single-player, and if you're playing multiplayer then your friends can just do it too. It's not like PnP where if the DM only allows a single roll, one player can end up with [18 18 17 16 14 14] and another player with [12 11 11 10 9 6]

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
And what's the problem ?
I don't like it.

I'm not a fan of games expecting from me to self-impose some restrictions to not leverage their broken mechanics.

Also no, no matter how many of you repeat it about ANY topic, "don't like it, don't use it" is never a particularly clever advice when it comes to balance.

Quote
Also in BG3, Larian's homebrew ~overwhelms character stats, making optimized characters closer in power level to "average" characters than PnP.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Last edited by Tuco; 23/06/21 04:56 PM.

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I say allow rolling, point buy, and default array. Let the player choose the method as part of their self selected difficulty settings.

This is different in my view from restricting yourself from backstabbing, for instance.

If rolling is an option I'll use it, but I'll be quick to give respect to a streamer that uses default array on hardest difficulty in ironman challenge, because that would definitely be harder.

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What balance are you talking about ? IMO it never broke "the balance" to roll abilities in a DnD video game.
Especially in party based games in which you only roll for 1 character.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 23/06/21 05:22 PM.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
What balance are you talking about ? IMO it never broke "the balance" to roll abilities in a DnD video game.
Especially in party based games in which you only roll for 1 character.

Rolling for stats over and over until you get a couple of 18's and a bunch of other high numbers will definitely make the game easier, even if its only for one character. This doesn't bother me though, because it happens at the same time (more or less) that I will select the difficulty settings for the game, and essentially gives me another option for tuning that difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
I know people are overdefensive about this topic but I happen to agree.
"Rolling for stats" in a videogame equates basically to beg the player to take few minutes to exploit the system.

Why should anyone settle for "point buy" when you can get consistently higher numbers across the board (that basically ignore racial restrictions too) by taking four-five minutes to reroll a bunch of dices?
Creating powerful exploitative characters is part of the fun in RPGs to me. I hate average or balanced.
To compensate I usually play in the highest difficulty setting though.

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