Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General RIP the patch every 2 weeks

The thing that surprised me the most about that WOTR announcement is that I was ready to bet they would delay the PC release at least once.
It seems it may release on schedule and they already planning the console one, instead.

Not that I care about playing this type of RPG on a console, anyway, but the implication that they are confident with it is reassuring.

Also, yes, may the toilet chain die in a fire.

P.S. Baldur’s Gate being ARX 2.0 would pretty much be my worst case scenario.

They originally aimed for June 2021 for WotR back when the kickstarter was announced. It was obvious from the state of beta phase 1 that June wasn't happening, and we actually hoped for a delay.

Hell, I'd argue that WotR probably needs one more month in the oven to the end of September or something. It's nowhere near Kingmaker launch bad, but for a cRPG of this scale, it could use a little bit more polish just in case.

Here's my list:

1. Halsin made a companion!
2. Be able to use spells in dialogue
3. Option to select Tav as the character npcs speak to when dialogue starts automatically (for single player)
4. SWTOR-style group dialogue for co-op

That's a pretty good list! But I expected you to select "Halsin made a companion!" for 1, 2, 3, and 4.

I'm not likely to play co-op, but 2 and 3 would be nice quality of life improvements.

Whatever they tell you, you will be unhappy if it does not meet your requirements, as well as a lot of people on this forum. Many people will not even try to understand, because they are convinced that it is better only the way they like it.



Yes, it is, thank you for making me laugh.

YES. That toilet chain needs to go. Late 90s we moved on from this archaic system. Is this how they still do their business in Belgium? I remember in 1993 still had those in my school in France. And we laughed about it.
In all honesty though, its more of a <WE ARE LARIAN> stamp of recognition thing more than anything else. Throwing all gameplay considerations out the window.
God its so cluncky. Even playing with a completely patched up latest version of DOS2 Im fighting that UI.

This is the update to my own list, rather is is every thing I could think of off the top of my head that apply to each category. I don't exactly expect many of these in the next update, but these are things I want addressed sometime during the EA, and are things I care about with he game and system.

1) Closer to 5e Mechanics

2) Non-Origin Companions

3) Fix conjuration and Summoning (Separate from Closer to 5e cause I am especially passionate about this).

I mentioned before companions are a great way to change up the story having companions replace different companions depending on what route you took. Like Minthra vs will. Kagha vs Helsin ect. Depending what route you wanted to take there are plenty of ways to diversify those options and plenty of options present even in just the beginning aspect of the game.

Mercs though are a big interesting point for people who do want to develop a fully fleshed out party however I do think the 6 character system sits better for this as it allows you to min max your party fitting in 1-2 companions to fill niche roles while still keeping a party build closer to a design setup for a power player you may desire.

@CJMPinger there are plenty of companion options for them to expand all the way up to 1 companion from each of the 12 base classes getting most in the beginning of the game the others could easily be worked in shortly after.

Minthra vs Shadowheart
Helsin vs Kahga

There are plenty of ways to mix and match those characters with story plots to make for a story that fits for the party that people want. While keeping companions suited to fit the group in the way they feel they would like. There are plenty of great ways they could tie in different choices affecting companions leaving or joining into the same story arch. Creating interesting ways the game could be replayed to a different story arch / conclusion based on actions. Would but a final product much further off as you would need to kind of do a different ending somewhat for each character based on how you played out the story. But to an extent that could be left on the edge giving them time to toy with that more down the road. However that division in how parties / characters group join and play out creates inpact in choices ect. Also having characters have there own conclusive story line and unique traits that make them in someways better than the options you have from character creation for npcs also can impact this like for example by Asterion having a bite attack / vampire like powers in some ways makes him slightly better than a mercenary character while not being built to a players design. Doing similar things for all the characters gives them a unique flavor and a reason to choose them over a merc designed character. There are dozens of ways they can play with that interaction.

Mm, I think Non-Origin companions also serve as a great opportunity for choice. I actually really want the option to have Halsin stay and lead his circle and we bring Khaga with us to give her some redemption and also because she is just as competent of a druid as Halsin is. With Minthara, I'd actually like to straight up recruit her but we have to convince Wyll to stay, like how in datamining it shows we may have to convince Shadowheart and Laezel to not murder eachother. I do think it should be possible but a genuine challenge to have every companion in the game recruited, because there should be clear conflicts and ideological differences, but with the Origin companions you have a common goal and there is a clear greater good that perhaps even some evil characters would aid because The Absolute is messing with their ambitions or plans.
Though my ideal is 13 Origin companions, one for each class. And then Non-Origin companions added on. One for each subclass is a pipe dream in pure numbers, but a large amount would allow us the chance to really play around with party composition and give feedback on every class and subclass.
Edit: Also I wouldn't frontload non-origin companions, I think they should be found throughout most of the game, or at least the first two or three Acts (depending on how many there are) and I'd spread them out, give them their own requirements for joining, etc etc. Shoving em all into Act One would feel a bit unnatural and could be overwhelming past the 12 Origin companions.

Well technically there are 5 origin companions its easy for them to realistically fit in 7 after the origins more from the core books for the 12 base classes and probably an artificer in a dlc. As original plans based on what they said were the core 12 classes. Not all of those classes need the worm to do there own thing as I would personally hope that gets removed in chapter 2 leading to a more sinister plot as the worm will get old after a while.

Gale has something going on with the netherese. Lazeal has her own thing with gith progression. Asterion you have the Vampire bit, Shadowheart is missing part of her memories so i feel something like a chosen of shar plot or a twist between selunite background being hidden from her could go either way. Then will has the thing with his patron.

Kagha and Helsin // the grove makes for an interesting story line where you could basically choose the shadow druids / or the good side. Having to choose while i think its a nice idea to have all the companions having to choose brings some depth to it as your choosing between 1 class or another you experience something similar in Pathfinder WoTR and its one of the more compelling aspects of the story not being able to have all of them in 1 playthrough as that makes you want to experience more than 1 playthrough as oppose to just 1 shoting the entire thing it also brings in some diversity and change to the story based on how you go through it.

IMO ideally 24 companions with a choices that give you a total of 12 + the mercenary companions you make that's still a potential of a lot of diversity in the characters and a lot of plot to play with also more options could be added with more dlcs its something that gives depth to dlc content by adding companion options down the road. The subclasses are not such a big deal and you can tailor the characters to a subclass. Even getting them later in the story you could chose there progression as an option when you do get them. You still also have the main character so that is 18 which is a lot of choices and combinations you can do to make a party of 6 even. I do expect them to cap the core game somewhere between level 12 and 16 so. Based on the fact the original release was not expected to go all the way to 20. Which is good in a way as it makes multiclassing a much stronger option for mix matching classes as well.

Well it would be nice to keep all 12 characters i think being made to choose also brings about that division that makes you want to replay the game more. Having 12 vs 12 also leads to a much more interesting plot line because you still get 1 of each class just moved around so that your choosing the good companion vs the more evil companion. I feel that there is more depth planned to show more truth to the characters as well. Like despite that characters feel 1 way they may actually be a different direction under the surface I get that opinion a lot from the surface of Shadowheart. Like surface she's very much like a stuck up princess but as story goes on and you develop reputation with her she feels more like she is afraid to open up as a character. So that as the plot develope's you find out why her memory was wiped there will be more depth coming and she will actually end up being more likeable but its hard to see I cant really read Larions plans but that seems the direction they are headed with her.

It would be easier to work her in if they were making her a Selunite cleric in same way. But they could also kinda twist things and make some of the choices a complete suprise like maybe minthra is actually the good character and you cant figure that out till the absolute is defeated and shadow heart is actually evil to the core its hard to say there are so many different paths they could still take with it. Origins characters are more ment as starting alternatives to building your own character. DLC content I personally feel would be a better way to introduce more so it doesnt delay game release as much since you dont really need 12 character with there own unique story's from the start to make the game feel unique. Adding 1 to a DLC is a great way to keep the game pushing forward and expand on that in the future adding more to the base game bringing back replayability in all aspects over time but Id still like to see the core 12 character options available.

To me the ideal way would be 5 initials 7 additional characters later and then expand dlc content like:

DLC 1 - Artificer, Artificer character in the story added as an origins character... this expands even the beginning of the game. His own story expands into the additional content and you could extend the level cap to level 18 from 16. Adding a couple of extra story zones.

DLC 2 - Additional origins character expanding again the entire game encouraging a fresh play through. Level cap extends to 20. You get 1 new sub class for 6 of the base classes.

DLC 3 - Additional origins character - Alternate quests different items level cap not adjusted but speeds up and you get an additional subclass for the remaining 6 base classes.

DLC 4 - Epics levels extending with boons // level 25 using optional rules. 2 New races // 2 new artificer subclasses 1 new subclass for 3 of the base classes and a new origins character.

DLC 5 - Another new origins character, 3 more new subclasses additional questing zones and items. New Races x2.

DLC 6 - More races more subclasses more quests more items.

DLC 7 - Again More of the prior stuff continuing to add companions subclasses quests and items and zones.

You could build out from that and add years of replay ability to the game. The further you expand add the more you can do with the core game. You could even overlap and add more to it expanding with like Neverwinter//Icewind Dale ect as like full expansion games that could overlap with a complete new story that ties in as you progress further into there story archs but eventually tie in together giving you a new beginning to the game basically creating an expanding world that really could be taken to some serious depth over time. There is alot of room given proper attention to take the game in a lot of direction if larion really wanted to work with it. It could develops so far as an IP to eventually be its own expansive universe. But that all depends on how much they take it serious.

Right now they are not doing a good job in the faith aspect of that done properly you could release 15.00 dlcs with good content every several months and I know I would pay for them if they were done properly. and 30.00 - 50.00 alternate tie in expansions and if it added content to my game id complain in no regards. Totalwar: Warhammer 2 is a perfect example they created additional games tied into each other and even when a new game is coming out for it ill still buy the dlc content cause it can be carried over into the new game = mucho mucho $$$ for them and great enjoyable replayability for us as players. To the point you dont feel like you ever lose anything you just get an ever expanding ever more fun universe where the content is always good. To the point even 20 years down the road people would still buy the old content to get it in the new game. Someone new starts playing they want the stuff from the old game they would but it to expand there new game even more and the new game would still be interesting to existing players cause they are expanding there old game even more. Give you hundreds of thousands of hours of game play its what I think the true best way companies should be progressing with how to keep making money in the modern market. Its a much better system than concepts like loot boxes and subscriptions to games. Instead you just keep making your old content great combined into the new content.

This is a very single player focused way of thinking of this game. The problem with single player is that its not really that great for replay-ability. Speaking for the Multiplayer Nation - the ones who rack up the serious hours (800+ in EA is average for my friends) we have a different priority list depending on how ambitious Larian wants to be.

We want to see DM Mode.

We want to see this as a Platform to run multiple campaigns

A DLC to me would be something like a new Module that was built by Larian that you could export characters through and into - like The Keep on the Borderlands, or Temple of Elemental Evil

In multiplayer we usually just murder the Origin characters because they don't matter. Did you know that?

Hmm, that's a good point. I am really beginning to wonder if Larian overextended themselves with wanting to create a single player game VS a multiplayer game. A lot of the current combat mechanics would be kinda fun in a multiplayer setting, but it clashes with the single player experience. While developing more companions is basically wasted effort for the multiplayer crowd too.

Maybe the greatest twist of irony is that Solasta and BG3 may have had mismatched priorities that would work better in the other game. As in, Solasta's character creation has you make your entire party from scratch with tags defining their personality and backgrounds, but it's a pure singleplayer game at the moment, when that concept would lend itself much better to a multiplayer setup. While BG3 has full fledged companions and still has a tag system, but the companions won't be appreciated in multiplayer, and multiplayer is the main thing that caused Larian's games to take off compared to all the other cRPG developers.

Perhaps that's why we have so few companions. With this train of thought, what's the point to writing more and voice acting them all when the game's longevity ultimately won't rely on them at all?

It's basically a different kind of argument to the base 5E VS Larian homebrew crowd. They want to have their cake and eat it too - as in, Larian wants to break out of their 'lol cheesy/slapstick humor' reputation among the wider gaming community with BG3's tone in regards to its single player-focused writing, but the multiplayer gameplay-focused crowd ultimately won't care.

With Larian, I wouldn't even plan on paid DLC, rather, I wouldn't plan on content being added with DLC. Perhaps free updates like the grab bags, but nothing as big as the artificer or full companions.
With their past track record, even when it is wanted, they haven't done much in the way of DLC. Heck, DOS2 has one DLC, and it is a Squirrel with no mechanical and very little story significance, and for many that DLC was free, So I really would not count on Larian following other company's DLC plans.
If anything, a DLC I'd expect from them would be a whole Module or Expansion that would amount to its own game built with the existing mechanics, that seems more the MO of a first Big DLC for them, they seem to like to go big and emphasize player enjoyment.

Further more, it has been confirmed we will have more than 6 origin companions, though we do not know how many. 12-13 is the ideal number because that gives one tadpoled member for each class (the 13th being Artificer which I advocate a bit for.)

Also 12 companions would be too small for a Baldur's Gate game. If you look at the past titles, BG1 BG2 and even the SoD expansion, the games have A LOT of companions. Base Baldur's Gate has 25(!) companions, while the Enhanced Edition has a whopping 29! Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear has a total of 17 companions. And Baldur's Gate 2 has a total of 17 while the enhanced edition has 22 companions (with an extra sacrificial lamb one added on to be a temporary 13). The minimum the series has gone is 17, but with the resources Larian has they could go way more than that while delivering quality. Essentially, Larian has the chance to make the best cRPG in a long time just from a companion front.

Also I genuinely feel just 12 companions would be a disservice to the series. Not just from a size standpoint, but from a world standpoint too. Companions help flesh out a world, and Faerun has A LOT to flesh out. each companion is an opportunity to display a different facet of the world or a new perspective, from a basic knight who has taken up a sword to end bandits to a maniacal cleric/thief who believes himself to be a rising god, they act as unique characters that also give bits of the world. Limiting it to just 12 thus limits how much can be delivered. So I say add as many as Larian is willing to add, rather, add as many can be added without compromising the quality of the game.

Furthermore, locking companions behind a paywall would be something that'd sour me greatly. We as consumer's have gotten way to used to scummy DLC that we truly think of it as the norm, and locking things that should be packaged with the base game behind DLC is one of those things. I really hope larian doesn't go that route. If they must add something through DLC, add it in a full expansion with content, such as full campaign module to display BG3 as something that can host different campaigns (Heck, once mechanics are sorted out and long after the game is made, I'd definitely like to see a new Icewind Dale or Tomb of Horrors).

Edit: I am still of the mind that this should be developed as a single player game first and a multiplayer game second. I do want to see DM mode and the like, but as something later on once the single player has been refined. Though on that front, perhaps they should give Origin companions more purpose when not actively in the party so they can have purpose for Four Player games (or Six player if they ever finally up the party size).

IIRC Larian devs at some point have mentioned that they are fundamentally opposed to the idea of paid DLC now. To the level that a lot of Larian fans would believe the presence of such a thing in BG3 to be a betrayal at first glance, though I also believe in terms of actual practicality that most people will end up justifying it in their minds and come to terms with it within the week.

I think the last game they made that had that was with Divinity 2 (the main series Divinity, not Original Sin), which was well over a decade ago. However, as this is a WotC-contracted game, it's possible that BG3 may end up with paid DLC down the road.

Technically, Divinity Original Sin 2 had a singular Paid DLC, but everything was upfront about it and it was super cheap, and most people ended up getting it for free I think.

But yeah, them immediately going to small DLC packs or such would definitely feel like a complete betrayal. That and the company Electronic Arts has completely soured me to DLC companions. In particular, Mass Effect 3 is when I first realized that when I bought a DLC for a companion I was getting ripped off most of the time. That game had the audacity to do on disk DLC where the only difference between having the character (Who was super important to the overall story btw, like some of the biggest revelations of the series) was changing a statement from 0 to 1... And then I looked at other games and found that often times the character was either something cut off from the main product, or made alone to squeeze more money out of the game. DLC wise, I vastly prefer full expansions or standalone experiences. But even with Larian I think I would be pretty soured.

For Larian to properly sell a DLC to me, I think it'd have to be a full on expansion like the Witcher 3 expansions or a new Module like adpating existing DND modules into a videogame format. New classes, subclasses, and companions I would HATE to see behind a paywall, if added later on as grabbags that is fine. But if I see "DLC Pack #1: Xanathar's Guide To Everything," I do not think I will be particularly happy.

interestingly the file titled Patch 5 at that link has been updated 4 hours ago, so it does seem that things are moving forward, maybe we will be lucky and this Thursday we will hear/see something? (Or maybe not, Patch 5 might be even longer...)

They also have the opportunity to call it Patch DnD 5e as a pun...

It's now more or less clear that they don't really want to make a game that feels and play like DnD so I cannot imagine them trying to add new rules and spells and mechanics from other DnD module (and changing everything once again)


Things has been updated a lot since a few weeks. Really. Every few day one of those file is updated.
This update may not mean anything else than all the others past few weeks.

I have more hope when nothing is updated. At least it make me think that the patch is in QA before release.

Ah, pardon my ignorance.

Oh no, I also hope it mean something. But really, I had been dissapointed every weeks since months following steam DB :p

Now I have in mind that the localisation file (I guess) has been updated so maybe it's the good week... But the loca summer file has been updated 4 times too since patch 4^^