Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General RIP the patch every 2 weeks

No, it’s not *similar* at all.

Why do you constantly miss the point?
Also, why do you constantly double down on consonants for no apparent reasons?

I would like to hear the difference.
If you can provide it ...

Dunno ... probably for same reason, you do.
Sometimes we just cant communicate the same way ... and sometimes im simply making fun of it.

Tak na to je poměrně jednoduchá odpověď, dělám to samozřejmě proto, že Angličtina je můj rodný jazyk a proto ho ovládám naprosto bezchybně.

It really isn't at all similar to what I was saying. And arguing for the sake of arguing when you add nothing to the conversation is usually an argument not worth making.

I wouldn't know where to begin since they have NO POINT OF SIMILARITY at all?
He's talking about how the workflow in production is probably managed and you are coming up with a complete arbitrary analogy with your frankly terrible suggestion "If you don't like it just don't use it", which is a fallacious argument in itself and doesn't relate to what we were saying a single bit.

This would be absolutely hilarious... if it had ANY contact to the current reality.

I'm not a native English speaker either.
Just activate a spell checker or something.

> that is gathering data

> people use -> positive respond
> people dont use -> negative respond

> conclusion made based on gathered responces

I get it you dont see it any simmilar ... well, i do.
And simply stating "its not" dont change that. O_o

Maybe its bcs all you see its "bad Ragnarok telling me to not do things" ... but that is not really mine problem. :-/

Your perception of a given message does not alter the meaning of the message.

Telling someone to just not use something if they don't like it for example, does nothing for gathering data. If you're thinking of telemetry, that is purely statistics and does not indicate player choice in the same manner as verbal feedback does. People talking about Shove and their opinions surrounding it being a bonus action instead of an action can be read as people not liking that change; People not using Shove in game does not convey that same message and trying to infer it from telemetry relies on biased/personal conjecture, which isn't an effective way of handling feedback. And to be clear, I an explicitly talking about feedback through socials, not telemetry.

If that was the case, Larian could look at telemetry, see Shove being used a lot (while missing the point that it's used because of being incredibly strong at a low cost in action economy), not because people like it, but because it makes sense to choose what ever provides the strongest advantage in combat encounters. Then you could form a conclusion that it must be a positive change, because a lot of people are using it. That's not how telemetry is used. Telemetry in and of itself isn't a reliable source to consider as player feedback, and that isn't what it's for either. Design choices rely heavily on community-provided feedback in verbal form, before any meaningful interpretation could be attributed to associated telemetry.

So don't attribute your interpretations to what I am saying, and then claim to know more about what I am saying, than myself.

There is source of our missunderstanding.
I was only expressing my interpretation ... i never tryed to anyhow alter meaning of the message, also i believe i dont have any tools to do that.

Same as i believe you didnt try to alter meaning of my message, by stating that you dont see any similarity there.
Or did you?
Bcs (funny enough) that would mean, that you claimed to know more about what i see in that message, than myself. :P
Wordplay is sometimes tricky.

That was allready discuised multiple times, in countless other topic ...
I never claimed that Larian should use that data they get from amount of using, or not using things allone and ignoring every other source of feedback ... did i?

As i stated in most others topic ...
I simply believe that if some skill is used every few seconds in game, random observer can easily come to conclusion that *this* specific skill is liked and concidered fun, as it is ... and therefore you can afford to give it lesser priority, than other things.
If that same skill is never used in few thousand playthrough ... the same observer can as easily come to conclusion, that there might be something wrong *this* specific skill ... and therefore they should investigate it futher.

Ofcourse i know that Throw and Shove are powerfull as hells, besides my own playthroughs, i also read that Throw and Shove topic written by Niara (i believe?) ...
But honestly i dont quite understand this attitude "its OP therefore i use it" ...
Yes, Niara used it specificly to show how OP it is ... that one playthrough i get.
But other people, throwing every single enemy around, and complaining that game is boring, when played that way ... i just dont understand them. :-/ It seem to me like standing in bonfire, complaiging about being hot, yet refuse to move. :-/
I am aware of those options, i am totally aware of their power ... yet personaly i simply refuse to use them, bcs then its simply exactly as they said: Boring ... and i play games to have fun. O_o And concidering SOME reactions on the forum, i would say im not alone in this.

Simply believing something doesn't make it true, and in this case your interpretation of how telemetry works is incorrect.

Let's use a more egregious example. I (and many other players) long rest frequently because otherwise we'll miss out on cutscenes. Thus, telemetry shows that players long rest frequently. Using your arguments, this is grounds for concluding that players like being at full resources all the time and would encourage Larian to automatically restore all HP, spells slots, etc after each battle. However, this is NOT the reason why many of us long rest so often. A lot of us would much prefer having cutscenes not tied to long resting, and thus being able to long rest less frequently without missing content.

Also, your proof threshold for finding something is wrong with a mechanic is impossibly high. Some players will inevitably use shove, but that doesn't mean it's widely liked or that an alternative option wouldn't be better. Especially for a game in EA where we're explicitly meant to test out all mechanics/dialogue/parts of the game, so simple use of a mechanic doesn't mean its good.

No ... simply believing something make it your opinion ... and when you express your opinion, you will say what you believe.
Or do you often say things you dont believe? O_o Bcs i dont.

This is very nice example of bad usage data from telemetry ...
But unless you try to imply that Larian are unable to connect two dots, and are using "only amount of usage" for determine if thing is good, or not ... and i believe you do not ... i dont quite understand the reason for wriging it. o_O

Once again i repeat:
I never claimed that Larian should use that data they get from amount of using, or not using things allone and ignoring every other source of feedback.

So ... if we will actualy concider that sentence, we can quite quicly find out that:
- Telemetry show us that player long rest frequently ... that is true.
- But the very same Telemetry also show ut that those players are often quite healthy, with at least half spellslots still ready for use ... therefore, their reason for for resting must be logicaly elsewhere ... even tho its still possible that some of them are simply only careful, especialy for their FIRST playthrough.
> Therefore we shall at least try to find out true reason for their often resting ...
> Still the very same Telemetry tells us that those people are geting to dialogues, right after going to long rest ... therefore we can presume that there is some corelation.
> And of course we still remember, that Telemetry is only one of our tools ... and we sill remember that we are suppose to use them all.
So we can check forum, reddit, discord, feedback emails, and other stuff ... if there is any relation to long resting.
And what would we find?

Are you seriously telling me that if you crate two ways for resolving a quest ... or a fight, to be more acurate ... and ~70% of people would use first method ... you will concider them being equaly interesting for players? O_o

As far as i know, in first (and so far only) measure Larian give us so far ... was that most people choosed to helf Tieflings instead of Goblins ... then they started to improve goblin questline, so its more obvious and possibly more interesting.
Doesnt that tell you that they are obivously using the numbers they gather? o_O

Of course it cant tell you if alterntive option woulnd't be better ... especialy since alternative option was never implemented and therefore you have litteraly none data for measuring. O_o

Yes you are totally right ... "simple use of a mechanit doesn't mean its good" ...
But we are not talking here about "a simple use" ... singular ... we are talking here about millions of players, mostly with multiple playthrough, wich would mean hunderts of millions played hours ... i dont even want to try count amount of combats, aka. chances to use shove, or throw ...
In that amount of data you can see wich spells was as you say "tested" ... wich are "regulary used" ... and wich are "used rarely"
Those are data you can work with ...

Now when i think about it, reverse process would probably work aswell ...
If there will be so many playthroughs simmilar as Niara did last time ... wich would mean, complete whole EA only showing and throwing enemies ... it would possibly drag Larian atention too.
But my point remain the same ... those data ARE usefull ... and they are gathered for reason.

That is the question, isn't it: how is Larian using the telemetry data?

The other big example is Bless, where telemetry showed that players don't use Bless, and the conclusion from Swen/Larian was that "Bless isn't flashy enough". Not that Bless is terrible because its so easy to lose concentration in BG3.
As you mentioned, just using the numbers isn't enough. You also need to accurately identify the origin. And even then, some things will still be hidden if you only look at the telemetry. Shove, between all millions of players, is probably "used somewhat regularly" which may be the exact frequency Larian wants. If so, then by telemetry alone there's no reason to investigate it further.

Glad we agree

Lets hope we shall have better idea next week.

Its just first step of the process.
They noticed that something is off ... that is what telemetry is there for.

Feel free to corect me if im wrong, but this is also case of Patch 5?
Bcs if so, im quite curious about what they mean by "flashy" ...

Exactly this i tryed to say. ^_^

^_^

No new class, another clusterfuck stream, no new content. 5 months...

This is a lot better than Panel From Hell 2. I'll be honest, this probably has been the best Panel From Hell so far.

Even though there's no new content it's been good to hear something is happening with reactions and the inventory. So far the changes in the patch all sound like good things.

I literally don't care. Every single thing they've announced so far is fantastic.

- Disengage as bonus action fixed
- Jump and Disengage separated ( no more Super Mario combat)
- long rest spam fixed
- camp looks like the environment the party is currently in
- improved roll interface

That's a lot of course-correcting and makes me hopeful for the full game. That's way more important than a new class, which we'll get eventually anyway.
In the end all that matters is that the final game turns out good.

Agreed

yeah, optimistic after this one, which is NOT something that I felt after patch 4.

New class would be nice, but we can get that with mods if we really can't way.

For once I'm actually hopeful. Pretty much every change is definitely for the better.

And background inspiration features

And they mentioned working on reactions, which is great.

I’m on board for everything I’m seeing.

I agree.
I'm definitely more confident now than I was before !

And I have to say that I appreciate the event . Can't wait for the full patchnote.
When they'll change the advantage thing with highground and backstab, the game will definitely be on the good path.

Think of it like this: Would you rather have them walking in the right direction or running in the wrong one?

To me Patch 5 looks great as it is.