Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Food for long rests looked good, thought it would be interesting if say you could make a specific dish or meal and gain a bonus out of it. Instead of just spamming food.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by fallenj
Food for long rests looked good, thought it would be interesting if say you could make a specific dish or meal and gain a bonus out of it. Instead of just spamming food.

A good idea, a classic thing from Japanese games - elegant dishes that give a special bonus after a rest. Spam with food could simply restore you, but some specific, rare food could give a special bonus. Oh, if only they had animations like in Monster Hunter or FF... Well if not they can use RE8 method, still cool. But it would be great to see how all the companions eat in the camp.

Last edited by Nyloth; 09/07/21 03:19 PM.

I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Joined: Oct 2020
T
addict
Offline
addict
T
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
I would prefer the danger of being woken by enemies (which they may implement later) or stolen.

Your main camp buddies could gather food for you from time to time, so you could take with you to dungeons.


Maybe have rangers, druids, and the outlander background able to collect food easier?

Joined: Jan 2017
G
addict
Offline
addict
G
Joined: Jan 2017
My preference would be to not have a million different kinds of food - if I suddenly have to worry about the difference between what happens if we eat a roasted pig vs a chicken vs a pile of cabbage, then the resource management part of this is going to get really onerous. I'd rather keep it simple - either you have enough food or you don't. To that end, I'd get rid of all of the individual kinds of food and just have rations; the choice of whether or not to rest at any given moment should be interesting, but I don't want to micro-manage my supplies to make sure that my character is getting enough fiber in their diet.

I really like the rest system in Pillars of Eternity. If you aren't at an inn and paying for a room, you just need generic camping supplies. These are readily available from nearly every vendor in the game (plus you can find them lying around), but you can only carry a limited number of them at a time. So if you're planning to be away from civilization for a while, you need to be a little bit careful about how often you rest while you're away or you might have to stop mid-journey to go resupply. The limit on how many you can carry is high enough that it's not really a concern that you're going to run out unless you're resting after every single battle. The system is pretty unobtrusive and doesn't detract from the fun parts of the game.

For people who are wary of having any hard restriction against long resting, another option would be to make long resting always possible, but if you don't have enough food on you it means that someone has to go out and find some (I imagine this part being entirely abstracted - you don't actually have to play out going to look for food). In this case, having people go out and hunt/forage for food creates a chance of a random encounter - this could be monsters spotting your forager, following them back to camp, and attacking or something more like getting confused about what is safe to eat and accidentally making a meal out of poisonous berries (make a con save or take a level of exhaustion or some other temporary debuff). This incentivizes you to make sure that you have enough food at any given time, but isn't a hard lock against long rests if you run out. It also creates opportunities for the environment where you are camping to matter more (e.g. types or likelihood of random encounters as well as rangers in their favored terrain have no problem finding food for the party).

Joined: Sep 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
+1 for the food requirement for resting.

This resource management will add tension and choice-making to the game, especially if Larian adds encounters where you could give your food to NPCs in exchange for [benefit]. The QoL aspects (having a single "camping supplies" item, as well as the "auto select" button) will make this process less tedious. Food is prevalent in BG3, so it's unlikely you'll reach a soft-lock scenario where have to beat an incredibly-difficult encounter but also can't fully long rest. At the very least, I imagine merchants will have ~unlimited Camping Supplies to purchase.

Problem
This change is meant to discourage long-rest spamming. However, it's unclear (unless I missed something?) if Larian has changed companion cutscenes, which currently ~require some level of long rest spamming. Hopefully, this update to camping means that Larian is working on un-tying long rests from companion dialogues.

Originally Posted by grysqrl
My preference would be to not have a million different kinds of food - if I suddenly have to worry about the difference between what happens if we eat a roasted pig vs a chicken vs a pile of cabbage, then the resource management part of this is going to get really onerous. I'd rather keep it simple - either you have enough food or you don't.
It looks like each food item just represents a different number of Camping Supplies, so you can mix and match food items freely to reach the target of 40 total supplies. Different foods don't have different effects.

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
For one they could start making MORE THAN ONE cutscene triggerable at each rest.
I get that in some specific cases some of them may be implicitly exclusive (i.e. when the cutscene involves the passing of several hours) but some of them are meant as short dialogues taking few minutes at most and there's no real reason for having a rule about "Just one companion interaction for each rest".


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
I can’t imagine lack of food will ever be a real problem (similarly as it is in Pillars of Eternity2). Food in EA was plentiful, and I imagine it will be on sale as well.

Perhaps, it could encourage players to optimise (use max spells before long rest, not spam long rest if unnecessary). There are scenarios where it could go wrong (food too hard to get, too fiddly to manage, too much food required on higher levels) but I wouldn’t be worried about that stuff. If anything it sounds more like “fluff” mechanic, that hard limitation - it should help in encouraging fun gameplay habits though.

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Perhaps, it could encourage players to optimise (use max spells before long rest, not spam long rest if unnecessary). There are scenarios where it could go wrong (food too hard to get, too fiddly to manage, too much food required on higher levels) but I wouldn’t be worried about that stuff. If anything it sounds more like “fluff” mechanic, that hard limitation - it should help in encouraging fun gameplay habits though.
Interestingly enough I think this system may actually incentivize me to use a long rest more often than i currently do, as it would finally stop from making it feel like I'm "cheating the system" while doing so.

Last edited by Tuco; 09/07/21 07:57 PM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Not sure this had been brought here but it looks like you don"t really "rest where you are".

It looks like you're teleported to a specific area that doesn't exist anywhere on the map (like the main camp) but with an environment that fit your previous location.


French Speaking Youtube Channel with a lot of BG3 videos : https://www.youtube.com/c/maximuuus
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Not sure this had been brought here but it looks like you don"t really "rest where you are".

It looks like you're teleported to a specific area that doesn't exist anywhere on the map (like the main camp) but with an environment that fit your previous location.

previous location? why not in the one where we are now? I think if we are in the underdark, then camp will be in the underdark, but not in the same place where we 'stay', but in this location. no? =0

Last edited by Nyloth; 09/07/21 10:58 PM.

I don't speak english well, but I try my best. Ty
Joined: Apr 2021
Location: Australia
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2021
Location: Australia
From what I understand, they HAD to make a specific camp area for each world setting, because otherwise if you just dropped a campfire in the middle of wherever you're standing (which could be on a narrow bridge in the Underdark for example!), in cutscenes you might have characters walking through walls or on air, etc. Also imagine the lighting issues - world lighting vs specific cutscene lighting, light being affected by colours in your immediate environment, etc. This makes sense. Also from an RP perspective, you wouldn't just make camp wherever, you'd look for somewhere secure and out of the way of predators/enemies.

Last edited by Alexandrite; 09/07/21 11:02 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by fallenj
Food for long rests looked good, thought it would be interesting if say you could make a specific dish or meal and gain a bonus out of it. Instead of just spamming food.

A good idea, a classic thing from Japanese games - elegant dishes that give a special bonus after a rest. Spam with food could simply restore you, but some specific, rare food could give a special bonus. Oh, if only they had animations like in Monster Hunter or FF... Well if not they can use RE8 method, still cool. But it would be great to see how all the companions eat in the camp.
+1 food animations would be cool & rare foods for sure.

Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by Nyloth
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Not sure this had been brought here but it looks like you don"t really "rest where you are".

It looks like you're teleported to a specific area that doesn't exist anywhere on the map (like the main camp) but with an environment that fit your previous location.

previous location? why not in the one where we are now? I think if we are in the underdark, then camp will be in the underdark, but not in the same place where we 'stay', but in this location. no? =0

Yeah I wrote "previous" meaning "the location you were when you click the long rest button".
Probably not the best way of explaining things.

I understand the thing about cutscenes but honnestly I thought they have got rid of those camp that are nowhere on the map.
Specific spot in the underdark and in several locations is perfectly fine but this thing with camp that only exist in another dimension is really sad.

This part of the resting system update looks really cool and it will definitely be "more" immersive which is very important to me. But if it works like the main camp it will still be very strange to rest in an area that can only be reached when you're teleported by a button on the UI.

I hope I'm wrong but when he's long resting in the crypt I don't recognize at all the camp location (light, statue, ...)

Maybe those areas has been added to the maps ???
So much questions ! Can't wait to play this patch 5!

Last edited by Maximuuus; 09/07/21 11:32 PM.

French Speaking Youtube Channel with a lot of BG3 videos : https://www.youtube.com/c/maximuuus
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Not sure this had been brought here but it looks like you don"t really "rest where you are".

It looks like you're teleported to a specific area that doesn't exist anywhere on the map (like the main camp) but with an environment that fit your previous location.
Well, they haven't been exactly secretive about this. Their explanation made it clear enough, I would say.

Originally Posted by Alexandrite
From what I understand, they HAD to make a specific camp area for each world setting, because otherwise if you just dropped a campfire in the middle of wherever you're standing (which could be on a narrow bridge in the Underdark for example!), in cutscenes you might have characters walking through walls or on air, etc. Also imagine the lighting issues - world lighting vs specific cutscene lighting, light being affected by colours in your immediate environment, etc. This makes sense. Also from an RP perspective, you wouldn't just make camp wherever, you'd look for somewhere secure and out of the way of predators/enemies.
Sort of.
First things first, even other games that allow you to "drop the camp wherever you are" like Kingmaker and WotR actually limit the options to areas where there's enough room to actually place one. It's not like you can "glitch" a temporary camp over any geometry with complete disregard for anything else.
And of course in these games you'd need to be at a minimum distance from enemies, too.

That aside, frankly I don't think that the trick of having "contextual cutscenes" with variable background (which it has already been used by plenty of other games before, for the record) would have been particularly harder to adapt to "contextual camps". I think it was just a deliberate choice from Larian to have these camps instanced.

Last edited by Tuco; 10/07/21 12:37 AM.

Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: Oct 2020
V
stranger
Offline
stranger
V
Joined: Oct 2020
I made a post about this on the Discord feedback page, but I'll post my concern here as well.

Restricting the Long Rest system is good. It is a necessary evil. However, unless they are very careful, the system could result in a softlocked save state. If you require a resource to be consumed in order for your player to heal or regain expended abilities, you run the risk of that player running out in the middle of a long expedition. If you are lost in a dungeon and you don't have enough supplies to fight your way back out, and you saved recently, you are SOL.

A softlocked save state can ruin a player's entire experience with a game. Back in the original release of Final Fantasy X, there was a situation your could get into where you were stuck on your airship. If you left your airship, there was a boss fight with a Doom Mechanic. So you could just get party whiped if you couldn't kill the boss fast enough. However you couldn't fly away either because of story limitations. So if you weren't a high enough level, your save was dead.

This isn't as extreme as that. But it's not an unrealistic outcome either. And the options of Game Over or Lose 3 hours of progress, can and will be a major turnoff for the more casual players. There are plenty of ways the developers can implement to combat this. And we have not put our hands on the system yet, so it could be a moot point. But the last thing we want to do is create a situation that could potentially cause players to walk away from the game. We need to make sure there are sufficient safety nets in place. Be it scavenging skills, partial restorations, or even a Pokémon style Escape Rope.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
This is a good change. Long Rests needed some kind of limiting factor. I also feel that if they should make it togglable it should be tied to difficulty. After all, is Hard really hard if you can just spam long rests infinitely? Meanwhile anyone playing on Easy isn't looking for a struggle for survival in the face of overwhelming odds. They just want to experience the story.

This is also a system they can build on though. Druids should be able to use goodberry to contribute to your food reserves for the evening if they still have a slot left over. Rangers and people with the Outlander background should be able to forage for food or go hunting when at the camp to give you more free reserves than usual. Things that can make classes more meaningful toward the resource management side of the game.

I'd also like not having enough food for a long rest to be reflected in the dialogue. Just little side comments your party makes like "I am so hungry..." or "I guess we won't be having breakfast either..."

If you skip multiple days you might even start taking a penalty to your party's opinion of you. Nobody likes going without food after all.

Originally Posted by Vorian
I made a post about this on the Discord feedback page, but I'll post my concern here as well.

Restricting the Long Rest system is good. It is a necessary evil. However, unless they are very careful, the system could result in a softlocked save state. If you require a resource to be consumed in order for your player to heal or regain expended abilities, you run the risk of that player running out in the middle of a long expedition. If you are lost in a dungeon and you don't have enough supplies to fight your way back out, and you saved recently, you are SOL.

I don't think there's a risk of this here. So far you can walk away from just about any encounter and make your way back to town if you need to, and there are so many ways to resolve an encounter that even if you somehow couldn't get food for a long rest you could likely find some way to resolve the fight without being at 100% anyway. Barrelmancy, shove them off a bridge, hit them with your shoe, etc.

Joined: Oct 2020
V
stranger
Offline
stranger
V
Joined: Oct 2020
While you aren't wrong. One thing you have to keep in account when designing or running a game. There is always someone dumber than you. What may seem obvious to you, may never occur to someone else. There are a lot of ways to alleviate the aforementioned limitations, but the first of which should be to provide sufficient alternatives. The last thing you want is a player to spend 3 hours struggling to beat a giant dragon and then realize that they didn't bring enough apples to get back safely when they finally achieve victory.

Joined: Mar 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Mar 2020
Frankly I’m mostly disappointed that the thread title is not “Food for Thought”
🤭

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by Vorian
While you aren't wrong. One thing you have to keep in account when designing or running a game. There is always someone dumber than you. What may seem obvious to you, may never occur to someone else. There are a lot of ways to alleviate the aforementioned limitations, but the first of which should be to provide sufficient alternatives. The last thing you want is a player to spend 3 hours struggling to beat a giant dragon and then realize that they didn't bring enough apples to get back safely when they finally achieve victory.
As already pointed, their very "first demonstration" in the video/screenshots shows that there are now "cam supplies" for sale as a single item. I'm fairly confident they will be readily available from merchants anywhere in the game, aside that as some form of loot.
I doubt the risk of "soft locking" yourself could ever be an actual thing.

Not to mention that even in the worst case scenario you are still allowed what they called a "shallow rest".

If anything I'd worry that the system may still be WAY too forgiving to the point of being borderline vestigial.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: Oct 2020
R
old hand
Offline
old hand
R
Joined: Oct 2020
I bet that the system will be of little importance, maybe not counting the psychological aspect.
The chance that your food will be limited in some way is virtually nil which means that you will most likely still be able to use the long rest every fight.
More problematic now, players will feel compelled to search each crate for food.
I think in the end, the only thing the system will add is an annoying minigame in management (as if the inventory is not a mess now).
There is always a chance that the larian will only place a strictly limited amount of supplies, but this is quite unlikely, especially since then it would make no sense to play characters based on long rest when you have unlimited short rest.

It would be nice if someone tested the system and tried to rest after each fight. Unfortunately, I most likely won't be able to do it myself (lack of time).

Page 2 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5