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We need War domain for Clerics. Fighting with a Mace gets old really fast for a melee oriented Cleric.

For another melee caster type character, I tried making a High Elf Eldritch Knight. But it turns out humans do it much better even though EK seems like a High Elven tradition and something they would naturally be best at. In fact elves seem to suck at all Str based builds since they can't start with 16 Str. Maybe rolling for stats will fix that or some other form of stat allocation.

Elves seem to suffer from the fact that there is very little benefit from having both high Str and Dex. Or am I missing something that comes later in 5e? Having 16 Dex should be great for a Str build. But Full Plate is always better than Medium Armor with high Dex and melee attacks are just the same. Maybe there should be magical Medium Armor that would allow more Dex bonus so they could at least get the same AC as Full Plate fighters with 8 Dex.

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I am really hoping for Level 5 or 6. At the moment the game ist boring with a level Cap of 4

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Now I understand you are sad not every class, subclass, race, specialized build including also all kind of Wizard builds and Cleric domains of every class from PHB 5th edition will be availabe at release.
Actualy i was looking forward for your (and anyone else really) explanation for at least one reason ...
That is why i asked: "Why it would be not realistic?" ... yet you decide to ignore that question and instead just stated that your opinion is a fact, more solid then word from the actual leader of actual development. O_o

Originally Posted by Terminator2020
I am sorry you have to adapt to that fact.
No i am sorry, but you will have to adapt to that fact, that just bcs you believe something, it dont makes it fact. laugh

Originally Posted by Zellin
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
The thing is, ultimately this argument is Larian claimed they'll do it, and you are claiming they will not.
Please, bring the proof of Larian claiming that.
Will this link be sufficient? smile https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/fhq9cq/compiled_baldurs_gate_ama_20200313/
I shall quote few interesting questions and answers, but feel free to read it whole ... its quite interesting imho. smile wink

Quote
There have been hints of other 5e sources being implemented into the game. Are you going to include material from Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes, Xanathar's Guide to Everything, and/or other player materials outside of the core material of the 5e Player's Handbook? Additionally, at full release, will all content of the PHB be represented (notably, (sub)classes and (sub)races)?

Swen: HB/MM/DMG are the base we are starting from but we are taking material from other books too.
Quote
At full release, will all of the PHB classes and races be represented?

Adam: At launch we’re planning to include all classes from Player’s Handbook. We’re only talking about the races announced during the gameplay presentation for now.
Quote
Will all 5e Classes be available at launch?

NickP: Yes, all classes from 5e Player’s Handbook will be included at launch. In Early Access you’ll be able to play as a Cleric, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Warlock or Wizard.

Does that include paths, subclasses, etc?

NickP: Yep.
Correct way to to ask would still be:
Will BG3 have ALL paths, subclasses etc.
What was confirmed? That all classes will have subclasses (so far every class has had minimum 2 subclasses and Cleric 3 domains).

That leaves unfortunately room for not include all subclasses at full release. However they have so far been consistent been in releasing at least 2 subclassess /class and I would asssume that is the minimum at least we get with all classes at full release. Could they increase the number of subclasses and Cleric domains? Yes, but I doubt all at full release.

Now could they release subclasses and Cleric Domains after full release? Of course they can. In fact after full release they might even addd stuff outside from PHB.

Yes there are those who believed Cyberpunk 2077 would become a MMO.
There are those who believe Starcitizen will release within next 2 years funny that has now continued for really many years.
There are those that believe that earth is flat and nor round and that we are told it is round is a conspiracy theory.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 22/07/21 11:04 AM.
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Zellin
Originally Posted by CJMPinger
The thing is, ultimately this argument is Larian claimed they'll do it, and you are claiming they will not.
Please, bring the proof of Larian claiming that.
Will this link be sufficient? smile https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/fhq9cq/compiled_baldurs_gate_ama_20200313/
I shall quote few interesting questions and answers, but feel free to read it whole ... its quite interesting imho. smile wink
Yes, thanks. That's sufficient.
Don't get me wrong. It's not like I don't trust they could promise it. But so far we had more than enough people on this forums bending Larian's words to suit their wishes and even to back up their delusions.

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Sorry if I ever gave off the impression, though I have to thank Ragnarok providing that link even though the onus of evidence was upon me.

Ultimately, from what I have read and seen, even from supposed evidence to the contrary, it seems every PHB Sublcass will be included. To not do that just doesn't make any sense to me since that was one of the few things they actually did say would be included.

And to that evidence it says it pretty plainly, all classes, subclasses, and paths from the PHB. I believe all races which seems like something I may be wrong on but I find that unlikely since PHB races are a thousand times easier to implement than Gith.

Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Correct way to to ask would still be:
Will BG3 have ALL paths, subclasses etc.
What was confirmed? That all classes will have subclasses (so far every class has had minimum 2 subclasses and Cleric 3 domains).

That leaves unfortunately room for not include all subclasses at full release. However they have so far been consistent been in releasing at least 2 subclassess /class and I would asssume that is the minimum at least we get with all classes at full release. Could they increase the number of subclasses and Cleric domains? Yes, but I doubt all at full release.

Ultimately, and I don't mean this rudely but I apologize in advance, what you are saying here is wrong based on what you just quoted.

The question asked would it have all the PHB Classes. He said yes. Then the question asked was paths and subclasses, continuing the all. He said yes.
Ultimately, ALL was the confirmed operator here. Not SOME cleric and SOME wizard. The room gives was all, and in fact above he even said content from other books. PHB is the base amount and the room is greater than that. At full release all PHB Classes and Subclasses will be represented, that is the answer.
Yes, for EA we may only get to play with two subclasses for each class, but as stated by Swen during the quick Q&A of the last Panel From Hell (unless I am remembering wrong), some content is being withheld until the final release. The fact we only have GOO and Fiend warlock in EA is by far not an indicator that Archfey will not be in the final release because the EA is not indicative of the final release. So to circle back, until Larian states that we are not getting every PHB Subclass, I must operate under the assumption that they shall. Especially considering with the resources they have at their disposal now, to not do that would be beyond skimping out on one of the core parts of dnd, player choice. And in fact, everything I have read and saw is that we are likely getting more, but Larian does not want to promise anything past the goal of PHB.

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Originally Posted by Zellin
Don't get me wrong. It's not like I don't trust they could promise it. But so far we had more than enough people on this forums bending Larian's words to suit their wishes and even to back up their delusions.
I totally get you. smile
I only asked bcs, after all, is "just reddit" ... not exactly the best source of informations on internet ...

Glad i could help. ^_^

Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Quote
Will all 5e Classes be available at launch?

NickP: Yes, all classes from 5e Player’s Handbook will be included at launch. In Early Access you’ll be able to play as a Cleric, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Warlock or Wizard.

Does that include paths, subclasses, etc?

NickP: Yep.
Correct way to to ask would still be:
Will BG3 have ALL paths, subclasses etc.
What was confirmed? That all classes will have subclasses (so far every class has had minimum 2 subclasses and Cleric 3 domains).
Just out of curriocity ... have you read what you quoted, or did you just clicked on "quote" button? laugh
I shall make the important text red, so you dont miss it again. smile

Originally Posted by Terminator2020
However they have so far been consistent been in releasing at least 2 subclassess /class
True ...
But also remember that Swen specicificly told us in last PFH that there are things they will hide until full release, so there is some surprises even for us, who will participate in whole Early Acess. smile
So ... the fact that they didnt include all 7(?) Cleric domain can easily mean that they just picked few, and the others will be tested just by their own people.

I mean, i dont claim that im sone kind of 5e expert ...
But from what i have seen so far in game, Cleric Domains are not so different from each other ... yes, there are different bonuses, pasives and "allways prepared" spells, yes there are different "channel divinity" spells ...
But besides that? O_o
The world is only reacting on that if your deity is flagged as "good cleric" / "evil cleric" / "neutral cleric" ... so there is litteraly no obstacle in this aspect ...
The spell lists is litteraly the same, except few "permanently prepared" from the same list ... so there is litteraly no obstacle in this aspect ...

So, taken that over and over ...
It seem to me that "including" another Cleric Domain, means "implement channel divnity spell" related to that domain ... and set few walues so the passive things fits. laugh
That dont sounds too hard to me. O_o

Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Could they increase the number of subclasses and Cleric domains? Yes, but I doubt all at full release.
Yes im aware ...
You told us few times allready ... all i wonder is WHY do you think that ... but you seem to be unable, or unwilling (but more unable) to answer. frown

Originally Posted by Terminator2020
In fact after full release they might even addd stuff outside from PHB.
Indeed ...
But they allready did ... for example Githyanki. laugh


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
I have to thank Ragnarok providing that link even though the onus of evidence was upon me.
Sorry, i was unable to resist. laugh O:)

Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Ultimately, from what I have read and seen, even from supposed evidence to the contrary, it seems every PHB Sublcass will be included. To not do that just doesn't make any sense to me since that was one of the few things they actually did say would be included.
Plus ... i would like to mention that implementation of most sublcasses from PHB (at least what i have researched so far ... but i admit i dint read them all so far) is mostly about little nuances, than anything else.
I mean, i dont think there is any abyssal-huge differences between subclasses ... like creating Full caster from Full Meele fighter by picking other subclass. O_o

And even if, multiclass was also confrimmed so game should be able to deal with them pretty easily. :P

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 22/07/21 12:23 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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My best Guess for Patch 6:
Bring in the Bard to party on the Early Access' 12 Month Anniversary.
Something more lighthearted in the face of so much Chaos incoming with the Absolutes trying to take over Faerun.
Bards will come in Handy and they will sing about your brave early adopters adventures smile

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Originally Posted by TheHero
My best Guess for Patch 6:
Bring in the Bard to party on the Early Access' 12 Month Anniversary.
Something more lighthearted in the face of so much Chaos incoming with the Absolutes trying to take over Faerun.
Bards will come in Handy and they will sing about your brave early adopters adventures smile

Allow me to be the party pooper. Someone's gotta be, right? wink

I predict BG3 Bards might not be quite as much the light of the party as in real D&D even assuming Wizards lose (as they must) their broken ability to learn every spell that makes a joke out of one of the strongest Bard abilities; Magical Secrets. This as a consequence of Larian's "anti-RNG"-mechanics like easier advantage, lower enemy AC, inspiration rolls, buffed Friends-cantrip, ever-present Guidance, Illithid Wisdom, ability to save-scum crucial rolls, etc. All infringing on the skill monkey/inspiration Bard.

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Originally Posted by Seraphael
I predict BG3 Bards might not be quite as much the light of the party as in real D&D even assuming Wizards lose (as they must) their broken ability to learn every spell that makes a joke out of one of the strongest Bard abilities; Magical Secrets. This as a consequence of Larian's "anti-RNG"-mechanics like easier advantage, lower enemy AC, inspiration rolls, buffed Friends-cantrip, ever-present Guidance, Illithid Wisdom, ability to save-scum crucial rolls, etc. All infringing on the skill monkey/inspiration Bard.

These are all fair points. However, you do still get a full caster that is charisma based and has a wide assortment of skill choices that can be supplemented with expertise, plus jack of all trades for the skills that you don't pick.

As you say, because of save scumming and lower DC rolls the bard may not be the power choice, but they won't be bad (mostly because of the full caster part).

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Originally Posted by dwig
Originally Posted by Seraphael
I predict BG3 Bards might not be quite as much the light of the party as in real D&D even assuming Wizards lose (as they must) their broken ability to learn every spell that makes a joke out of one of the strongest Bard abilities; Magical Secrets. This as a consequence of Larian's "anti-RNG"-mechanics like easier advantage, lower enemy AC, inspiration rolls, buffed Friends-cantrip, ever-present Guidance, Illithid Wisdom, ability to save-scum crucial rolls, etc. All infringing on the skill monkey/inspiration Bard.

These are all fair points. However, you do still get a full caster that is charisma based and has a wide assortment of skill choices that can be supplemented with expertise, plus jack of all trades for the skills that you don't pick.

As you say, because of save scumming and lower DC rolls the bard may not be the power choice, but they won't be bad (mostly because of the full caster part).

I predict bard, if coupled with a bigger party to accommodate them, will actually reduce save scumming because with everything else a skilled player will find themselves failing checks a lot less.

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Originally Posted by CJMPinger
Sorry if I ever gave off the impression, though I have to thank Ragnarok providing that link even though the onus of evidence was upon me.

Ultimately, from what I have read and seen, even from supposed evidence to the contrary, it seems every PHB Sublcass will be included. To not do that just doesn't make any sense to me since that was one of the few things they actually did say would be included.

And to that evidence it says it pretty plainly, all classes, subclasses, and paths from the PHB. I believe all races which seems like something I may be wrong on but I find that unlikely since PHB races are a thousand times easier to implement than Gith.

Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Correct way to to ask would still be:
Will BG3 have ALL paths, subclasses etc.
What was confirmed? That all classes will have subclasses (so far every class has had minimum 2 subclasses and Cleric 3 domains).

That leaves unfortunately room for not include all subclasses at full release. However they have so far been consistent been in releasing at least 2 subclassess /class and I would asssume that is the minimum at least we get with all classes at full release. Could they increase the number of subclasses and Cleric domains? Yes, but I doubt all at full release.

Ultimately, and I don't mean this rudely but I apologize in advance, what you are saying here is wrong based on what you just quoted.
Unfortunately I do not agree with you. I would have asked that question differently.

Let say in theory he meant YES all subclasses will be available at release.

Well then go ahead and pleasantly surprise me.
Here is the thing. I do not believe Larian will hold to that promise specially if they make an effort to try release it at end of this year 2022.
I do not believe Larian will do that despite what they migth have said a long time ago.


Originally Posted by Luminary
Tempest Cleric and Storm Sorcerer please
For once I can fully 100% agree with you on this wish. Sure it would be super nice if we can get this soon at least the Cleric part and I have nothing against that Storm Sorceror will be implemented soon or later but at least in this game yes.


Originally Posted by 1varangian
We need War domain for Clerics. Fighting with a Mace gets old really fast for a melee oriented Cleric.
Sure +1 on this.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 22/07/21 05:51 PM.
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Githzerai or Half-Orc!

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Most of the fun comes into released Game, when we can be whatever race, etc and then taking the Backgrounds of one of the Partymembers.
A Druid with Shadowhearts Quest, A Halfing Fighter with Gales Background and so much more.
This is allready a big difference in experienceing the Game again later for 2nd,3rd, 4rth etc playthrough.
More Classes are fine, but theres so many iterations in Quest, Textwise etc., after that implementation that having a less Buggy game wont be an easy task.
It will take so much more time to develope BG3 to a Goldstatus and then release.

I really look forward to release sooner then later, but ready to be released then a Game which trys to be everything and fails at that to many times after release.

Last edited by TheHero; 26/07/21 10:19 AM.
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Enabling some more clothing and armor variety wouldn't hurt.

I think we've seen enough of Githyanki Half Plate, Scale Mail and Basic Robe. Half plates, breastplates and robes and many others are already in the game files.

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New content will come soon enough, personally I'm much more concerned about the content already present that I strongly dislike. Would love a re-revision of Rangers (uninspired!) and scrapping of Dip (replace with D&D counterparts and more streamlined coating that are balanced as expendable resources rather than use micromanagement tolerance/boredom as de facto balancing) for instance.

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Originally Posted by Seraphael
New content will come soon enough, personally I'm much more concerned about the content already present that I strongly dislike. Would love a re-revision of Rangers (uninspired!) and scrapping of Dip (replace with D&D counterparts and more streamlined coating that are balanced as expendable resources rather than use micromanagement tolerance/boredom as de facto balancing) for instance.
Rangers getting resistance to elemental damage at level 1 seems pretty silly. Resistance is magical level protection, something that they also already get as a spell. I hope they rework that aspect at least. They should get stuff like Advantage to Stealth, Perception and Survival in "specialized terrain" instead and it would be more useful too.

Agree about Dip, it somehow slipped through the features patch. And now it's more prominent than ever since permanent advantage is no longer a thing. Getting that extra fire damage for free from a dropped candle sure is a no brainer tactic and pretty asinine as a concept.

Hide is probably even worse than Dip. Very OP, cheesy and exploitable. High Ground / Low Ground still dominates combat. Wizards are still learning Cleric and Warlock spells and changing their prepared list on the fly whenever they please. Anyone can be a Wizard or Cleric in addition to their own class with enough scrolls. And there are plenty.

So yeah the features patch didn't really go all the way or even half way. Lots of cheesy exploits and issues with the classes.

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