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Lol. I think you've ultimately hit the nail on the head for me. There's just not enough character interaction period. Characters aren't REALLY getting to know each other as a team. They should be discussing things as a party and making comments towards one another. You should have options to defend someone's opinions and step on the toes of others, and tease, and flirt, and laugh, and joke.

So much of the character dialogues are 1v1. MC and Astarion. MC and Gale. MC and Lae'zel. It's all very rigid and one-sided. There's very few moments right now that cause the player to even feel connected to any of them. Thus, when that moment comes for romance, even having any of them want to sleep with you, it just feels forced ESPECIALLY because they ALL want to at the same time.

Astarion and maybe Lae'zel are the only 2, maybe, that I could see, and I even have a problem with Lae'zel. She's a Gith, proud and full of her own sense of honor. Unless you are also a Gith, I find it hard to believe she'd sully herself and sleep with you. I think unless you're a Gith, she should be one of the hardest to romance, even being romanced only after working real hard at it and only late game AFTER you've REALLY proven yourself.

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In Lae'zel's terms, think of it in the more mercenary sense - it isn't about *you* at all. From her perspective I view it as more a case of:

"Well, I'm here now and I'm travelling with this lot, and damnit, I'm stressed and in a mood to celebrate and I want some [insert anatomical preference here]. I'm sure as hell not waiting until I find a creche where my superiors will be the ones holding the reins... Who in this lot of slave-fodder material-plane mud-dwelling savages can I use to suit my needs? That one? That one. You, yes you, physically capable flesh being, service me."

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I believe its fine as it is ...

To me it seems like every companion is attracked to our Tav, no matter what gender, race, age, collor, or size you choose ...
Then, they simply (and mostly silently) observe their Mary Sue, until they get the feeling that they theoreticaly could understand each other ... then they hit on you. laugh

Kinda simple ... but i like it.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Well, I'm just saying. If they keep romance as is, I won't play the game having any character romance because it isn't romance. This is a huge disappointment for me. Period.

One of the things that I really enjoyed in BG1 and 2 was romance. Jaheira's, for example, was challenging, and you had to work for it, and it was rewarding. I felt like it was a real romance that took time, and we went through a lot together, etc. During Siege at Dragonspear, I romanced the captain, what's her name. By the end, it was truly heartbreaking foe me.

The romances in BG3... nothing emotional tp me at all. There's no connection, and they're disappointing.

So, again, if they keep them as is, I just won't, and that is a big loss on the BG3 fun scale to me.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Well, I'm just saying. If they keep romance as is, I won't play the game having any character romance because it isn't romance. This is a huge disappointment for me. Period.

One of the things that I really enjoyed in BG1 and 2 was romance. Jaheira's, for example, was challenging, and you had to work for it, and it was rewarding. I felt like it was a real romance that took time, and we went through a lot together, etc. During Siege at Dragonspear, I romanced the captain, what's her name. By the end, it was truly heartbreaking foe me.

The romances in BG3... nothing emotional tp me at all. There's no connection, and they're disappointing.

So, again, if they keep them as is, I just won't, and that is a big loss on the BG3 fun scale to me.
What we have now in act 1 is not a romance and never intended to be. It's a drunken one-night-sex. At some point Larian explicitly said that they are using the word "romance" here to be more "polite", but actually it's just sex.
So, please, just stop mistaking one for another.

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Originally Posted by Zellin
Originally Posted by GM4Him
So, again, if they keep them as is, I just won't, and that is a big loss on the BG3 fun scale to me.
What we have now in act 1 is not a romance and never intended to be. It's a drunken one-night-sex. At some point Larian explicitly said that they are using the word "romance" here to be more "polite", but actually it's just sex.
So, please, just stop mistaking one for another.


That I know, and it's the reason the only character scene at the camp I like is Shadowheart. I can see myself starting an actual romance with her after that night because it's just getting to know each other, some wine, kiss, etc. Nothing more.
But my point is that even to reach that there are too few moments to see that one could be interested or even know the other. All I said about DOS2 the interactions, etc? You can see many of them still in ACT1.
Again, this is just my opinion on the current state, I know many things will change, and I'm sure Larian will be able to make it work great in the end.

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Um... okay. Doesn't change anything no matter what you call it. I still do not enjoy what they've implemented. It is a huge letdown. BG 1 and 2 had some fun romance, REAL romance, options. BG3 just had cheap one-night-stand sex that feels very forced to me and meaningless.

Therefore, as a result, if they don't do something different, I just won't enjoy the game as much. I will simply choose to never romance any character in the game. You can agree or disagree all you want, but that is just how it is. I don't like the current sex crap they've developed. Will I kick and scream if they don't change it? Nope. I'll just not enjoy that part. Thus, in my opinion, the game won't ever be AS good as it could be if they didn't just treat sex for ALL characters like some pointless, forced moment in the game.

It also, frankly, makes me not like any of the origin characters as much. They just seem more shallow and, well, easy. Again, to me, romancing Jaheira was rewarding because she was hard to get. She was not just, "Oh Gorion's Ward. I lost my husband. Do me." It took time and effort.

These characters are ALL like, "Ah yes. We beat some goblins and are now drunk. Let's do it." Bah. No thank you. None of you care one twit about my MC. You just wanna have sex with anybody. Get lost!

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Um... okay. Doesn't change anything no matter what you call it. I still do not enjoy what they've implemented. It is a huge letdown. BG 1 and 2 had some fun romance, REAL romance, options. BG3 just had cheap one-night-stand sex that feels very forced to me and meaningless.

Therefore, as a result, if they don't do something different, I just won't enjoy the game as much. I will simply choose to never romance any character in the game. You can agree or disagree all you want, but that is just how it is. I don't like the current sex crap they've developed. Will I kick and scream if they don't change it? Nope. I'll just not enjoy that part. Thus, in my opinion, the game won't ever be AS good as it could be if they didn't just treat sex for ALL characters like some pointless, forced moment in the game.

It also, frankly, makes me not like any of the origin characters as much. They just seem more shallow and, well, easy. Again, to me, romancing Jaheira was rewarding because she was hard to get. She was not just, "Oh Gorion's Ward. I lost my husband. Do me." It took time and effort.

These characters are ALL like, "Ah yes. We beat some goblins and are now drunk. Let's do it." Bah. No thank you. None of you care one twit about my MC. You just wanna have sex with anybody. Get lost!

ok, on this note I must say that you need to wait. Many of the actual romances are still to be done, we don't have all companions, we are on ACT1, you can choose to sleep or not with them, or choose Shadowheart for a talk. But I think/hope larian will just make this based more on the character's personality, so let's see how the other companions that will be introduced will be in this regard. Also, I think after more thought, that the camp scene is actually the idea of the actual starting of the romance, and not the romance itself.
I just hope we can get more interactions/dialogues in this after the game is fully released. I mean, what can make confused for many is that BG3 is the first game (that I know) where you can actually go to bang a companion/romance in the very half of the first act. usually, this happens in later acts, most of the time in the last one.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Um... okay. Doesn't change anything no matter what you call it. I still do not enjoy what they've implemented. It is a huge letdown. BG 1 and 2 had some fun romance, REAL romance, options. BG3 just had cheap one-night-stand sex that feels very forced to me and meaningless.

BG1 itself had no romance. In TotSC they introduced a mini-romance, which consisted of two or three short quests and some dialogue. And then s/he would go and hold back the werewolfs for you - and be forgotten by Gorions Ward.
Basically, if it comes to characters, please compare it only to BG2.

If you pace the game realistic, meaning not letting the game run just to trigger dialogue, you will not be overly far with any romance when you finally raise the money to start Chapter 3. Also, you are locked into romance dialogue unless it is somehow unavailable.
Also, the Jaheira romance was not overly difficulty, it was just buggy. Viconia was the difficulty one.

Don't get me wrong, I like the characters and romances from BG2, it is what got me into crpgs and later into visual novels. In fact, I really hope we get good and fleshed out romance routes.
I also hope we will get few one-night stands and that they have a high risk of messing up a romance. Basically, I am a romantic who likes romantic stories mixed in and not just semi-random gratification (that is not realy gratifying..)

Also also, please add a nice girl, Larian. I for one would probably not here if not for Aerie.. >_<

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Um... okay. Doesn't change anything no matter what you call it. I still do not enjoy what they've implemented. It is a huge letdown. BG 1 and 2 had some fun romance, REAL romance, options. BG3 just had cheap one-night-stand sex that feels very forced to me and meaningless.

Therefore, as a result, if they don't do something different, I just won't enjoy the game as much. I will simply choose to never romance any character in the game. You can agree or disagree all you want, but that is just how it is. I don't like the current sex crap they've developed. Will I kick and scream if they don't change it? Nope. I'll just not enjoy that part. Thus, in my opinion, the game won't ever be AS good as it could be if they didn't just treat sex for ALL characters like some pointless, forced moment in the game.

It also, frankly, makes me not like any of the origin characters as much. They just seem more shallow and, well, easy. Again, to me, romancing Jaheira was rewarding because she was hard to get. She was not just, "Oh Gorion's Ward. I lost my husband. Do me." It took time and effort.

These characters are ALL like, "Ah yes. We beat some goblins and are now drunk. Let's do it." Bah. No thank you. None of you care one twit about my MC. You just wanna have sex with anybody. Get lost!

The current culmination at the party is just an intimate taste - not necessarily a whole summary and representation of what "romancing" them will be like. We're getting intimate with who they are now, not who they grow to be in Act 2 or in Act 3. I found some of the scenes actually have smidgens of actual romantic dialogue and elements in their scenes. A few of them confide in you during these scenes and Wyll and Gale in particular express some longing for more. Headcanoning any of them as drunk only makes sense if the player character just made the bare minimum of unlocking the scene.

I also wonder if you are getting to these romance scenes without having gotten many of the companion's camp scenes prior. It is possible to get the approval needed to unlock these scenes even though you've camped like twice and haven't seen a single scene of the character you choose.

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Originally Posted by Niara
In Lae'zel's terms, think of it in the more mercenary sense - it isn't about *you* at all. From her perspective I view it as more a case of:

"Well, I'm here now and I'm travelling with this lot, and damnit, I'm stressed and in a mood to celebrate and I want some [insert anatomical preference here]. I'm sure as hell not waiting until I find a creche where my superiors will be the ones holding the reins... Who in this lot of slave-fodder material-plane mud-dwelling savages can I use to suit my needs? That one? That one. You, yes you, physically capable flesh being, service me."

Yes. Lae'zel seems the least interested in similarity, or your PCs person, when choosing sexual partners, and she's therefore most unaffected by the approval stats. She's also more appealing within the approval system, since she's the only passable domineering type of companion(Astarion being too much of a sniveling murder-rapey toff, Minthara the-token-domme being a needy slave to the flayer cult etc.) in the game as it is, so it's not like toadying up to her is an unpleasant chore from a d/s kink perspective.

She also seems to enjoy heaping verbal abuse at others, which may give more variety in the dialog options and sort of hints at the possibility that you can have an somewhat antagonistic relationship with her and still romance her. There doesn't seem to be that many dialog options to trade jabs with her at the moment, though, I've seen very few campsite interactions with her. Oddly, she's a bit traditional/poetic/awkward in propositioning to you, as if she has to prop you up in order to somehow justify to her noble self the desire to fuck a lowly servant with a hideously uneconomical nose. And while the 'sex party' plays out like "choose the romantic relationship" -'approval scenario', it sort of works for her, as the romantic relationship with her seems to revolve largely around (enjoyable) masochistic self-denial, since she's got a rather infla.. high confidence in her abilities as a lover/bruiser, and even states that her partner's pleasure should be derived from her pleasure.

There's also little reason to think that she'll betray us for the flayer cult (unless you've been fattening the tadpole so much with your gray matter, that she's lost her wits as well), so there's a chance you can romance her without high approval. Though there will surely be other parties that will try to set the companions at each others throats, so it's possible you'll have to kiss her ass, not just for the sake of it, but because of the approval stats.

But all other current companions seem to be hemmed in by a approval system, that doesn't particularly appeal to me.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Well, I'm just saying. If they keep romance as is, I won't play the game having any character romance because it isn't romance. This is a huge disappointment for me. Period.
This again?
10 paiges in the last topic was not enough for you? :-/

FFS ... well, then dont.
If that makes you happy.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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I think, they handled it well with Shadowheart - there is an actual building up and no sex scene, but some talk and a kiss.


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Originally Posted by fylimar
I think, they handled it well with Shadowheart - there is an actual building up and no sex scene, but some talk and a kiss.
Maybe ... but it suits her.
Can you imagine the same scene with Astarion? :-/

Ugh ... awfull.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Well, I'm just saying. If they keep romance as is, I won't play the game having any character romance because it isn't romance. This is a huge disappointment for me. Period.
This again?
10 paiges in the last topic was not enough for you? :-/

FFS ... well, then dont.
If that makes you happy.

No. What makes me happy is for them to NOT make tawdry, pointless sex scenes and call it "Romance just to be polite." That's dumb. Call it what it is. Baseless sex.

If that's what people like, that's fine. Have a character or two who will have baseless, meaningless sex with the MC. Astarion fits the mold just fine. If it fits the character, and people like it, whatever. But not 1 of the characters is like, "Hey. Let's just hang out and get to know each other." Shadowheart is the closest, but even she's like, "Share my bunk with me tonight. Let's kiss."

The Shadowheart "love scene" would be more of what I'm talking about, but even she goes from 0 to 60 in one night. Couldn't they just share a bottle that night? Then, on another night, maybe they take a stroll and chat under the moonlight and then have their first kiss? Then, on another night, they flirt and tease a little, share another kiss; one that's more intense? etc. etc. etc.

And then there's the fact that Larian has everyone on the same night wanting to sleep with you which completely cheapens the entire thing. It would be one thing if Astarion wanted to do things with you during the party. Again, I get it. Astarion is free from his shackles, feeling good, half drunk, and he just wants to experience more of life and all its pleasures. Lae'zel, again, I get it if you're a Gith, but maybe you all just don't know enough about how Githyanki society is supposed to be. Her sleeping with a human or elf or drow or dwarf or halfling would be like a human sleeping with a dog or cat. That's how the Gith view other races. All races are inferior to them.


https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Githyanki
Relationships
As a people, githyanki were generally proud and xenophobic. They viewed all other races with contempt[27] and were generally unwilling to learn anything about other cultures, including other languages.[14] They viewed Material Plane–dwellers as ignorant and incompetent, or, in worse cases, as potential slaves. They could only bring themselves to use magic items not of githyanki design if they were extremely powerful, and even then by rationalizing that any such items must have been designed with githyanki knowledge to begin with. It was uncommon, but not impossible, for a githyanki to overcome the prejudices of its people and start regarding others with respect.

So she would NOT just sleep with anyone in the party after a few days of fighting at their side. She would BARELY even tolerate their company and want anything to do with them. Even Lae'zel using weapons other than Githyanki weapons is ridiculous, but I will say that IF Larian does Lae'zel right, then I suspect she may be different from other Gith because of some past circumstance. Thus, she makes concessions out of necessity in order to accomplish her ultimate goal. Still, there are some things I really have a problem with for her, and that's her just being so willing to sleep with the MC no matter what race as long as they tickled her fancies a little during EA. I'm sorry, but Lae'zel should be one of the hardest romances in the entire game, fighting her feelings for the MC to the bitter end especially if they are non-Gith.

And I have a REAL problem with the fact that they have everyone hit on you if you hit a certain relationship level. They ALL want to sleep with you. What about just being friends? Why are Gale and Wyll hitting on me when I just want to be their friends? It is NOT fun for me to have characters that I'm trying to connect with hit on me when I don't want them to hit on me. Immediately, all I want to do is kick them from the party. It's like having one of your friends tell you they want to kiss you, but you don't feel that way for them. It makes everything really awkward, and the next thing you know you're trying to avoid them. I'm just saying, Larian REALLY ruined Wyll's character for me when, during my first playthrough, I had no idea he was going to ask to sleep with me. I thought Wyll and my MC were becoming good friends, like Brothers in Arms. All of a sudden, "Let's BUNK!" I'm like, "No way, Bro! I'm sorry, but... I got the wrong impression about you. I thought we were just bros." And I had a hard time after that even remotely liking his character.

If Larian wants people to like their origin characters, they need to build their characters with solid relationship dialogues and moments. There needs to be joking and teasing, and not just in a sexual or flirtatious way. There needs to be more companion off the cuff comments LIKE IN SOLASTA! HA! Brought in the dreaded game again, but it's one of the things they did so well, so suffer! One character misses a shot and another says, "You suck!" or "You'll get 'em next time," or "Try harder!" Fun little moments that make the companions feel more like friends and not absolute strangers who hate each other and are stuck in a bad situation together.

And they all need their own, separate romance arcs. Don't be throwing them all into some sex pool on celebration night where they all suddenly just want a romp in the sack.

Anyway, as you can see, this bugs me to no end especially when Raggy constantly comments about "well just don't do it then if you don't like it." Drives me insane. I am SUGGESTING that they build into the game more romance, not just tawdry sex. They can give you who like just sex some characters that just want sex, but at least give us players who like an actual romance an actual romance. I have an opinion. My opinion is that the romance in the game sucks as is. If they don't fix it, it will make the gameplay less fun for me.

I very much enjoyed Siege of Dragonspear so much more because there was the ability to romance certain characters. Same with BG2. Same with Knights of the Old Republic and many other games like it. I don't want the game to be ALL ABOUT ROMANCE as if I'm looking for a Dating Sim. I don't like Dating Sims. I'm not asking for a Dating Sim. I'm looking for a good fantasy game LIKE THE ORIGINAL BG GAMES that include some romance options to enhance the gameplay and make it more enjoyable. I really love adventuring with characters that I connect with, and if there is one that I feel connects with my MC more, it makes it even more enjoyable because I feel like the two are building a strong relationship together. Games like that which allow you to build relationships with other characters that you can even have turn into a full blown romance make the story that much more enjoyable for me, and I'm not alone because I know others have shared the same feedback. But then they get shot down and told to just don't play out the romance then, as if that somehow fixes the issue. This BG3 tawdry sex night crap is NOTHING like what I'd like to see, and it frankly brings the game down ten notches.

And no. 10 pages in my last topic was NOT enough for me. I'm a writer who writes novels 500+ pages long. I'm a DM who creates campaigns after campaigns. Story writing is what I do. 10 pages is like a hiccup for me. If you don't like 10 page writeups, then why do YOU write 10 page writeups? I find it very interesting that you pick on me writing so much, but so many of your comments in various threads have been novels themselves.

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By the time of the camp scene you'll probably have learned: Shadowheart can't swim, she likes night orchids, she is an orphan, and she worships Shar. In terms of RPG relationships this might as well be the equivalent of years of cohabitation. Quibble with the accelerated nature of this but it's hardly 0 to 60. This could all take place over two nights or two weeks, they have no direct control over the amount of time you take so a lot of the pacing right now is whack.

I hope you're not using a blurb from the Monster Manual to rationalize why Lae'zel or Tav wouldn't use non-Gith weapons during this campaign, Githyanki might be huge assholes about the superiority of their civilization but believing it's far-fetched that any Gith wouldn't use a any weapon available under duress doesn't strike me as realistic.

In that same vein, you might want to readjust your expectations of how civilizations that view themselves as superior view "inferior races" in this regard, respect is not necessary. Gith should view Faerun like Europeans viewed the New World and the Indians who lived there.

I agree with you that it falls on you like a ton of bricks during the party, I also think it could be better paced, better integrated in larger story, instead of just when you talk to them, there's a lot that could be improved in this regard, but you have to temper your expectations, first because its an EA and second because, RPGs don't have the best track record in this regard.

Ultimately I think the kind of romance arc you want won't be found among our Neutral/Evil companions. I'm not sure what's more to say, you're right casual sex isn't romance, I don't think it's being put forward as such either, though it does lead to the possibility of further intimacy in the scenes and morning-after scenes.

And finally, I don't need to like my companions, I don't even need to like my romantic interest, sometimes stories aren't about giving you what you want.

Maybe break up your text walls up a little with some spoilers and headings. I bet you alienate a few people who just can't be bothered.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by fylimar
I think, they handled it well with Shadowheart - there is an actual building up and no sex scene, but some talk and a kiss.
Maybe ... but it suits her.
Can you imagine the same scene with Astarion? :-/

Ugh ... awfull.
I don't Imagine anything with Astarion, but killing him...


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Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by fylimar
I think, they handled it well with Shadowheart - there is an actual building up and no sex scene, but some talk and a kiss.
Maybe ... but it suits her.
Can you imagine the same scene with Astarion? :-/

Ugh ... awfull.
I don't Imagine anything with Astarion, but killing him...

hahaha. The love for Asatarion is strong in this place. But honestly, he and Gale, I can't even, especially after both decided to judge me for choosing Shadowheart over them.

Which reminds me of giving an important feedback. Could the companions stop eavesdropping on my choices in the camp during the party? They shouldn't have any opinion about who I choose to spend the night with, it's not of their goddamn business. If I wanted someone else, I would go after them. I hate it.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by fylimar
I think, they handled it well with Shadowheart - there is an actual building up and no sex scene, but some talk and a kiss.
Maybe ... but it suits her.
Can you imagine the same scene with Astarion? :-/

Ugh ... awfull.
I don't Imagine anything with Astarion, but killing him...

hahaha. The love for Asatarion is strong in this place. But honestly, he and Gale, I can't even, especially after both decided to judge me for choosing Shadowheart over them.

Which reminds me of giving an important feedback. Could the companions stop eavesdropping on my choices in the camp during the party? They shouldn't have any opinion about who I choose to spend the night with, it's not of their goddamn business. If I wanted someone else, I would go after them. I hate it.
I agree, that is annoying as hell. I don't really get all the Astarion love or the Minthara hype, but then I hate Twilight and the likes with passion and I don't like evil mad psychocult bitches, drow or other.
I would like to have a more down to Warth, normal companion for a change, without Drama, someone like Varric or Aveline from Dragon Age 2 for example. We have enough drama queens so far.

Last edited by fylimar; 13/08/21 12:38 PM.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
especially after both decided to judge me for choosing Shadowheart over them.

Which reminds me of giving an important feedback. Could the companions stop eavesdropping on my choices in the camp during the party? They shouldn't have any opinion about who I choose to spend the night with, it's not of their goddamn business. If I wanted someone else, I would go after them. I hate it.
Sounds understandable to me ...
You would also feel disapointed in their place. :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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