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I agree, that is annoying as hell. I don't really get all the Astarion love or the Minthara hype, but then I hate Twilight and the likes with passion and I don't like evil mad psychocult bitches, drow or other.
I would like to have a more down to Warth, normal companion for a change, without Drama, someone like Varric or Aveline from Dragon Age 2 for example. We have enough drama queens so far.

Since you brought that up, you know, I would love an Isabela like kind of character, just saying. And yes, please give us a companion who isn't overcomplicated/annoying/ with a darker past, etc kind of character, more down to earth companions can be interesting as well. Especially someone willing to just have a nice chat with you, this I miss in this game, unlike other rpgs I've played, in this one, there's no actual nice chat with the companions, everything seems so over the top, snarky, mind your business all the time. I think this is one of the biggest reasons I didn't get a real care for any of the companions. I think the only companion I really like, and that's not saying much, is Shadowheart.

Last edited by Avallonkao; 13/08/21 12:52 PM.
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Exactly what I'm saying. No real companion relationship building. You get nothing but "stop prying" from most of them and no joking laughing or anything. Then, suddenly, "Hi. My my. Aren't you the catch of the day. Let's do it."

THAT'S what I'm talking about. No connections. Just 0 to 60 out of nowhere, ALL of them, and I don't even REALLY like any of them by that point. Gale pretends to be good, but I don't think he really is. He's totally sus to me. Wyll has a dark side too in spite of playing Mr. Hero. Lae'zel...well... need I say more. Astarion... same. So like you said, maybe Shadowheart is kinda likeable when she's not being a sarcastic jerk and pushing you away.

They need to give us reasons to like them and even WANT to be intimate with them. Otherwise, why would my awesome MC even consider sullying themselves with any of the origin characters?

Romance is truly dead in BG3.

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It really seem to me like we were playing entirely different game sometimes ...

Its not 0 to 60 out of nowhere ...
There is quite nice character development with each one of them. O_o
They first watch you, concider what kind of person you are ... then they open to you with their most pressing problems ... they asks for your trust, for your help, then and only then for your di... ehm ... night spend together, but allways in that order. O_o

Unless you sprint the whole game to Tiefling party without talking to anyone ... then it really can ruin the mood ... but that is your own fault.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
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I agree, that is annoying as hell. I don't really get all the Astarion love or the Minthara hype, but then I hate Twilight and the likes with passion and I don't like evil mad psychocult bitches, drow or other.
I would like to have a more down to Warth, normal companion for a change, without Drama, someone like Varric or Aveline from Dragon Age 2 for example. We have enough drama queens so far.

Since you brought that up, you know, I would love an Isabela like kind of character, just saying. And yes, please give us a companion who isn't overcomplicated/annoying/ with a darker past, etc kind of character, more down to earth companions can be interesting as well. Especially someone willing to just have a nice chat with you, this I miss in this game, unlike other rpgs I've played, in this one, there's no actual nice chat with the companions, everything seems so over the top, snarky, mind your business all the time. I think this is one of the biggest reasons I didn't get a real care for any of the companions. I think the only companion I really like, and that's not saying much, is Shadowheart.

Thing is, the 'straight man' kind of character is hard to write. In my experience they either fall flat (Kaidan, Jacob from ME) or are quite exceptional (Eder from POE and, maybe, Sten from DA), no in-between. Larian has yet to even try, in any of their games, either because of that, or because of the Origin system 'requiring' every character to feel like main character material.

Either way, i doubt we'll get anything resembling a normal dude.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
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I agree, that is annoying as hell. I don't really get all the Astarion love or the Minthara hype, but then I hate Twilight and the likes with passion and I don't like evil mad psychocult bitches, drow or other.
I would like to have a more down to Warth, normal companion for a change, without Drama, someone like Varric or Aveline from Dragon Age 2 for example. We have enough drama queens so far.

Since you brought that up, you know, I would love an Isabela like kind of character, just saying. And yes, please give us a companion who isn't overcomplicated/annoying/ with a darker past, etc kind of character, more down to earth companions can be interesting as well. Especially someone willing to just have a nice chat with you, this I miss in this game, unlike other rpgs I've played, in this one, there's no actual nice chat with the companions, everything seems so over the top, snarky, mind your business all the time. I think this is one of the biggest reasons I didn't get a real care for any of the companions. I think the only companion I really like, and that's not saying much, is Shadowheart.

Oh yes, Isabela - what a great character. And yes, more nice, friendly conversations - that's why I brought Varric up, I really liked the conversations with him in DA2, it truely felt liek friendship. I miss that in BG3. Mostly the companions are selfcentered snowflakes, that rub their problems in your face. Let's stay with Astarion for a while: The guy tries to kill you right from the beginning, he always cheers, if you are cruel and disapproves, if you are kind. But then he demands, literally demands, that you show kindness to him for being a vampire. He reacts aggressive, if you aren't understanding of his condition, but if you show the same kindness, that he demands from you to someone else (Arabella for example or the tieflings in general), he disapproves. What a drama queen. And don't get me started on Gale and Wyll with their god/demon mistresses and their whinyness, if you don't show compassion for being so dumb and start something with a fickle godess or a frigging demon.
I think the girls are a bit better - at least, Shadowheart is annoying, because she literally doesn't know, who she is (and it gets better later on) and Lae'zel is focussed only of finding a creche - aka her only solution for removing the tadpole. I can live with that. Lae'zel isn't a nice person, her culture isn't a friendly one, I get that. But she is the most dramafree of the companions.


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Problem with DA-2 compared to BG-3 is that every companion in DA-2 follows you voluntarily ...
They had better(? ... well, certainly different) things to do, but instead they decided to follow you for some reason.
In BG-3 most characters dont want to go with you, but see no other option.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Problem with DA-2 compared to BG-3 is that every companion in DA-2 follows you voluntarily ...
They had better(? ... well, certainly different) things to do, but instead they decided to follow you for some reason.
In BG-3 most characters dont want to go with you, but see no other option.

Agree and disagree. yeah, they don't want to? try telling them you don't want them following you when meeting them the first time, one will be mad, other will try to change your mind. Another calls you idiot, the only one that goes her way without begging you to reconsider is Shadowheart. So, they follow because of necessity, right? I don't think this is a reason to be a jerk when you try to make a small conversation. Other RPGs have this kinda forced group joining, but get to know each other more before jumping to sex. DAO is an example of this well done.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Problem with DA-2 compared to BG-3 is that every companion in DA-2 follows you voluntarily ...
They had better(? ... well, certainly different) things to do, but instead they decided to follow you for some reason.
In BG-3 most characters dont want to go with you, but see no other option.

As I see it, none of the BG3 companions are forced to go with you. If Lae'zel wants to find a creche quickly, she can just go and search one for herself, Astarion can murder hsi way to Baldurs Gate to confront his master or whatever else he wants to do. Gale and Wyll both make it very clear, that they think of themselves as the gods gifts to humanity, so no need to follow some noob. Shadowheart might be the only one, who might gain by following you, given, that she has no memory. But she does seem mostly ok with it.
Basically, no one forces the companions to follow you and quite frankly, I always thought it hilarious, that they do so (yes story reasons blabla, but still).
And there is one character, that follows you volunteerily and he is refreshing drama free: Halsin. I already see him as teh big brother, my girl never had - it's kind of refreshing compared to the rest. So yeah, someone like Halsin as companion would be great. And I'm not talking romance here, but friendship.


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Funny thing is that Halsin is a great guy, no pun intended. And I also enjoyed the small talks I had with Alfira than most of the dialogues with the companions. I'd like a companion like her, someone pleasing to talk to. Someone who seems, normal, she just endured some heavy trauma and still treated my character nicer than all companions even after our first meetings. Is that allowed in this game, right? I hope so in the future at least.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
Funny thing is that Halsin is a great guy, no pun intended. And I also enjoyed the small talks I had with Alfira than most of the dialogues with the companions. I'd like a companion like her, someone pleasing to talk to. Someone who seems, normal, she just endured some heavy trauma and still treated my character nicer than all companions even after our first meetings. Is that allowed in this game, right? I hope so in the future at least.

My current hope is that Alfira will be the bard companion. Alternately, I hope she hangs around the camp and serves a utility purpose. Either way I kinda hope she's romanceable, though I'm aware games don't usually make it possible to romance utility characters (shop owners et al... I think Skyrim was unique here)

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by Avallonkao
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I agree, that is annoying as hell. I don't really get all the Astarion love or the Minthara hype, but then I hate Twilight and the likes with passion and I don't like evil mad psychocult bitches, drow or other.
I would like to have a more down to Warth, normal companion for a change, without Drama, someone like Varric or Aveline from Dragon Age 2 for example. We have enough drama queens so far.

Since you brought that up, you know, I would love an Isabela like kind of character, just saying. And yes, please give us a companion who isn't overcomplicated/annoying/ with a darker past, etc kind of character, more down to earth companions can be interesting as well. Especially someone willing to just have a nice chat with you, this I miss in this game, unlike other rpgs I've played, in this one, there's no actual nice chat with the companions, everything seems so over the top, snarky, mind your business all the time. I think this is one of the biggest reasons I didn't get a real care for any of the companions. I think the only companion I really like, and that's not saying much, is Shadowheart.

Thing is, the 'straight man' kind of character is hard to write. In my experience they either fall flat (Kaidan, Jacob from ME) or are quite exceptional (Eder from POE and, maybe, Sten from DA), no in-between. Larian has yet to even try, in any of their games, either because of that, or because of the Origin system 'requiring' every character to feel like main character material.

Either way, i doubt we'll get anything resembling a normal dude.

I think the main reason why we're on short supply with down to earth companions, or "normal" people, is due to the fact that Larian seems enamored with a grimdark setting in their games, where people tend to be somehow creepy and/or fucked up beyond belief. The world of DOS2 was pretty grim, but at least there was more humor in the world(even the narrator VO was less malevolent), you were less traumatized by your captors, and it was easier to ignore/miss the "let's drink koolaid with the doomsday cultist" -plotlines at play.

Sadly, I can't see how a upbeat character like Lohse, Isabela or Varric would even fit in all this as an origin companion.

Last edited by IdPreferNotTo; 13/08/21 03:49 PM.

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Originally Posted by IdPreferNotTo
I think the main reason why we're on short supply with down to earth companions, or "normal" people, is due to the fact that Larian seems enamored with a grimdark setting in their games, where people tend to be somehow creepy and/or fucked up beyond belief. The world of DOS2 was pretty grim, but at least there was more humor in the world(even the narrator VO was less malevolent), you were less traumatized by your captors, and it was easier to ignore/miss the "let's drink koolaid with the doomsday cultist" -plotlines at play.

Sadly, I can't see how a upbeat character like Lohse, Isabela or Varric would even fit in all this as an origin companion.
If what the dataminers say is true, then we will get Minsc. A friendly and often silly absolut hero who takes orders from a hamster. Even having his witch killed before his eyes did not turn him into a dark figure. It made him a bit more unhinged, but since it was an EVIL WIZARD who did it, his solution was just BUTKICKING, FOR GOODNESS! .
BG2 was dark, with all the torture and soultheft, but this guy took the dark setting and shouted light into it.
I am certain he will do the same in BG3.

He was depressed after fighting Strahd and realising that he has no chance of winning against this evil, but he even recovered from that.

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Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Problem with DA-2 compared to BG-3 is that every companion in DA-2 follows you voluntarily ...
They had better(? ... well, certainly different) things to do, but instead they decided to follow you for some reason.
In BG-3 most characters dont want to go with you, but see no other option.

As I see it, none of the BG3 companions are forced to go with you. If Lae'zel wants to find a creche quickly, she can just go and search one for herself, Astarion can murder hsi way to Baldurs Gate to confront his master or whatever else he wants to do. Gale and Wyll both make it very clear, that they think of themselves as the gods gifts to humanity, so no need to follow some noob. Shadowheart might be the only one, who might gain by following you, given, that she has no memory. But she does seem mostly ok with it.
Basically, no one forces the companions to follow you and quite frankly, I always thought it hilarious, that they do so (yes story reasons blabla, but still).
And there is one character, that follows you volunteerily and he is refreshing drama free: Halsin. I already see him as teh big brother, my girl never had - it's kind of refreshing compared to the rest. So yeah, someone like Halsin as companion would be great. And I'm not talking romance here, but friendship.

Yeah:

Shadowheart's story is pretty stock, but I'm okay with that. She has drama, but it's in the expected range of drama for a fantasy character. Also, for all that she has main character drama for the people playing her as the main character, she's still reasonable in her attitudes on the boundaries of our relationship.

Astarion just comes off like a spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum. I know he has trauma as well, and I'm usually fine exploring a vampire storyline, but he makes me a bit tired.

Wyll is a drama queen, out and out, and he is very selfish. He's very much about doing the "right thing" but loses the track when his personal issues cloud the situation.

Gale is a bit casually condescending and also fairly selfish, and he's not as upfront about "there's things I have that are not your business"... and when you're less up front about your issues than the Sharite....

Laezel is a stock githyanki, which means we're her subordinates, she expects us to do what she tells us to do and she's perfectly willing to sacrifice us in the name of her goals. I'm willing to explore her story to see if there's something interesting beyond that... but if Alfira and Karlach are on the companion list she's likely going to not make the cut for my first run through.

I'm hoping they allow for expanding the party size so that you can get more versatile party builds, but I'm cynical about that. 4-person parties seems to getting more standard on RPGs and games like this. Which is a bit sad because a CRPG can much more easily handle a 6-person than a TT GM can.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
Funny thing is that Halsin is a great guy, no pun intended. And I also enjoyed the small talks I had with Alfira than most of the dialogues with the companions. I'd like a companion like her, someone pleasing to talk to. Someone who seems, normal, she just endured some heavy trauma and still treated my character nicer than all companions even after our first meetings. Is that allowed in this game, right? I hope so in the future at least.

Oh yes, I love Alfira. I really hope, she will become a companion.


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Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Yeah:

Shadowheart's story is pretty stock, but I'm okay with that. She has drama, but it's in the expected range of drama for a fantasy character. Also, for all that she has main character drama for the people playing her as the main character, she's still reasonable in her attitudes on the boundaries of our relationship.

Astarion just comes off like a spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum. I know he has trauma as well, and I'm usually fine exploring a vampire storyline, but he makes me a bit tired.

Wyll is a drama queen, out and out, and he is very selfish. He's very much about doing the "right thing" but loses the track when his personal issues cloud the situation.

Gale is a bit casually condescending and also fairly selfish, and he's not as upfront about "there's things I have that are not your business"... and when you're less up front about your issues than the Sharite....

Laezel is a stock githyanki, which means we're her subordinates, she expects us to do what she tells us to do and she's perfectly willing to sacrifice us in the name of her goals. I'm willing to explore her story to see if there's something interesting beyond that... but if Alfira and Karlach are on the companion list she's likely going to not make the cut for my first run through.

I'm hoping they allow for expanding the party size so that you can get more versatile party builds, but I'm cynical about that. 4-person parties seems to getting more standard on RPGs and games like this. Which is a bit sad because a CRPG can much more easily handle a 6-person than a TT GM can.

My hopes are on Alfira and Karlach too. I think, Karlach is a confirmed datamined companion and it is my hope, that Alfira will be another companion. Plus Halsin.
And yes, I would prefer a party of 6 over a party of 4. I think, it's ok with games liek Dragon Age, where you don't have as many classes, but in D&D you have so many different classes, that it is a shame to limit yourself to 4 characters. Plus I always have some characters in the party, because I like them, even if I might not need them, because my character already fills in their roles (Varric in DA2, Garrus in Mass Effect, Kivan in BG1, Mazzy in BG2...).


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Originally Posted by Fox of Embers
Originally Posted by IdPreferNotTo
I think the main reason why we're on short supply with down to earth companions, or "normal" people, is due to the fact that Larian seems enamored with a grimdark setting in their games, where people tend to be somehow creepy and/or fucked up beyond belief. The world of DOS2 was pretty grim, but at least there was more humor in the world(even the narrator VO was less malevolent), you were less traumatized by your captors, and it was easier to ignore/miss the "let's drink koolaid with the doomsday cultist" -plotlines at play.

Sadly, I can't see how a upbeat character like Lohse, Isabela or Varric would even fit in all this as an origin companion.
If what the dataminers say is true, then we will get Minsc. A friendly and often silly absolut hero who takes orders from a hamster. Even having his witch killed before his eyes did not turn him into a dark figure. It made him a bit more unhinged, but since it was an EVIL WIZARD who did it, his solution was just BUTKICKING, FOR GOODNESS! .
BG2 was dark, with all the torture and soultheft, but this guy took the dark setting and shouted light into it.
I am certain he will do the same in BG3.

He was depressed after fighting Strahd and realising that he has no chance of winning against this evil, but he even recovered from that.


I was mainly talking about the origin companions. My understanding is that Minsc will not be a origin character, that you can play as, but a possible companion you can add to the group later on. My understanding is that at least for the better part of act 1, we'll be stuck with origin characters in our party. And that there will be 2 more origin companions to choose from.

I'm not that keen on Minsc as champion for light, though. While sort of agreaable, Minsc is rather simpleminded, so he's maybe not the best equipped to fight the cult that uses subterfuge and mind control to further its aims. Also, I have to say, that I find him a tragic/unbelieavable figure, since it's heavily implied he's so childlike because of too many blows to the head. And he's certainly not someone you'd romance.

Last edited by IdPreferNotTo; 13/08/21 04:22 PM.

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Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by Thrythlind
Yeah:

Shadowheart's story is pretty stock, but I'm okay with that. She has drama, but it's in the expected range of drama for a fantasy character. Also, for all that she has main character drama for the people playing her as the main character, she's still reasonable in her attitudes on the boundaries of our relationship.

Astarion just comes off like a spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum. I know he has trauma as well, and I'm usually fine exploring a vampire storyline, but he makes me a bit tired.

Wyll is a drama queen, out and out, and he is very selfish. He's very much about doing the "right thing" but loses the track when his personal issues cloud the situation.

Gale is a bit casually condescending and also fairly selfish, and he's not as upfront about "there's things I have that are not your business"... and when you're less up front about your issues than the Sharite....

Laezel is a stock githyanki, which means we're her subordinates, she expects us to do what she tells us to do and she's perfectly willing to sacrifice us in the name of her goals. I'm willing to explore her story to see if there's something interesting beyond that... but if Alfira and Karlach are on the companion list she's likely going to not make the cut for my first run through.

I'm hoping they allow for expanding the party size so that you can get more versatile party builds, but I'm cynical about that. 4-person parties seems to getting more standard on RPGs and games like this. Which is a bit sad because a CRPG can much more easily handle a 6-person than a TT GM can.

My hopes are on Alfira and Karlach too. I think, Karlach is a confirmed datamined companion and it is my hope, that Alfira will be another companion. Plus Halsin.
And yes, I would prefer a party of 6 over a party of 4. I think, it's ok with games liek Dragon Age, where you don't have as many classes, but in D&D you have so many different classes, that it is a shame to limit yourself to 4 characters. Plus I always have some characters in the party, because I like them, even if I might not need them, because my character already fills in their roles (Varric in DA2, Garrus in Mass Effect, Kivan in BG1, Mazzy in BG2...).

There's a bit of ace intimacy in Shadowheart's party scene, but I'm worried that it'll eventually become "oh you just have to work harder to get her to put out" type deal that most games would do with that. But here's hoping otherwise.

It would be also nice if they had leveraged the ability to do conversations with characters other than your personal character to expand the varieties of romance types. Namely: polyamorous romances that aren't wholly revolving around a single character. With games where all convo happens from one character perspective that's a bit understandable if disappointing. But in this, I can have my PC talk to Alfira and then Shadowheart... and then have Shadowheart go and talk to Alfira... and

(hmm, I'll have to see if you can provoke one of those conversations that happen in multiplayer by having a companion in your control talk to your PC who is currently botted.)

Anyway... if the tech were in then I could build up Shadowheart's approval with Alfira, Alfira's approval with Shadowheart, and my character's approval with both and then have an actual healthy poly relationship where all three are together rather than past poly where it feels very harem-ish or "I like you so much that I don't mind 'sharing'."

Though, again, that's probably effort they're not willing to spend...

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There's a bit of ace intimacy in Shadowheart's party scene, but I'm worried that it'll eventually become "oh you just have to work harder to get her to put out" type deal that most games would do with that. But here's hoping otherwise.

It would be also nice if they had leveraged the ability to do conversations with characters other than your personal character to expand the varieties of romance types. Namely: polyamorous romances that aren't wholly revolving around a single character. With games where all convo happens from one character perspective that's a bit understandable if disappointing. But in this, I can have my PC talk to Alfira and then Shadowheart... and then have Shadowheart go and talk to Alfira... and

(hmm, I'll have to see if you can provoke one of those conversations that happen in multiplayer by having a companion in your control talk to your PC who is currently botted.)

Anyway... if the tech were in then I could build up Shadowheart's approval with Alfira, Alfira's approval with Shadowheart, and my character's approval with both and then have an actual healthy poly relationship where all three are together rather than past poly where it feels very harem-ish or "I like you so much that I don't mind 'sharing'."

Though, again, that's probably effort they're not willing to spend...

I believe Shadowheart scene is the way it is because
they are building up some sort of romance for her already with someone else, exploring all her dialogues and seeing her embarrassed in one scene when you discover that she is attracted to you, and her dream attraction that she claims is someone she IS very attracted to but it's not you, since it's always a he, even if you play a female character, it seems to be true. I believe she is in some sort of relationship with the man she must meet in Baldur's Gate. I believe this will be the turning point on her romance path.

As for your idea of poly lemme say this. It's not worth the effort, it will never be good, I think Pathfinder Kingmaker was the closest I ever played that had this option explored, but in both options, the sisters and Octavia and her partner, was disappointing in the end. I'd prefer if they don't try to mess with this, I mean, my guess is that Lae'zel will have an open relationship (willing or not for the player), she doesn't see the player as her partner but just a toy that belongs to her, and she may want to have more than one.

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Originally Posted by Avallonkao
As for your idea of poly lemme say this. It's not worth the effort, it will never be good, I think Pathfinder Kingmaker was the closest I ever played that had this option explored, but in both options, the sisters and Octavia and her partner, was disappointing in the end. I'd prefer if they don't try to mess with this, I mean, my guess is that Lae'zel will have an open relationship (willing or not for the player), she doesn't see the player as her partner but just a toy that belongs to her, and she may want to have more than one.

Fair points, but also "it won't be good so why bother" is among the reasons that a lot of things were resisted in the past, so hopefully someone will make effort to find what works eventually.

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I don't really have an opinion about teh varieties of romances, since I'm as romantic as a stone biggrin, though I must say, I like the beginning of the Shadowheart romance. It's no coincidence, that she is my favorite companion so far.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

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