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for anything Terminator says, just add "in my humble opinion" and you'll get along with them more smile

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Hey, "in my humble opinion" PF ranks pretty high. the more derisive adjectives he uses to review a game, the better the game end up being for me. He should be making "raging nonsensical reviews" more often. Going pro even.

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Originally Posted by Danielbda
How the fuck Kingmaker wasn't a success? It sold around 2 million copies, considering the game was sold at 40 dollars, that's US$ 80 million in revenue for a game that cost 900k to make.
While I agree with the general sentiment, for 900K you would have maybe the character creation and tutorial of Kingmaker. It costed a lot more.
Still impressive what they managed to achieve on a tight budget, anyway.


And yeah, keep in mind that Terminator2020 is one of these weird people that seem to think that dismissing and shutting down any other title on the market is some sort of moral obligation as "true BG3 fans" or something.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Originally Posted by Terminator2020
Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Ungeweldig
I suprised how no one has mentioend how tedious the first Pathfinder game was, not saying WOTR will be this way but I found the first one just such a slog...here is hoping its "sequel" will be better.
I have raged at a dumpsterfire that is Kingmaker's campaign enough times, to feel like I am repeating myself too much. laugh
Pathfinder 1 was no success game (well not complete failure either more like average game) or AAA game though yes I also played Pathfinder 1. Swarmed with bugs, below mediocre graphics and effects well and then to open world feeling (I don´t like Skyrime to sandbox for me) for me with annoying fast travel map.

Many also complained to hard challenge though personally that was not the issue I quit Pathfider1 (did not find it to hard) and never finished it and it felt lackluster to me much like Solasta does for me. Well though Solasta annoys me with other ways (example Solasta is filled with annoying riddles), but you can read that in the Solasta thred.

Based on how Pathfinder 1 was I would not buy Pathfinder 2, but to my understanding Pathfinder 2 should hopefully be clearly better. Well though I think I wait for full release Pathfinder 2 professional reviews before making any decision to possible buy it.
How the fuck Kingmaker wasn't a success? It sold around 2 million copies, considering the game was sold at 40 dollars, that's US$ 80 million in revenue for a game that cost 900k to make.
Well professional game reviews and community feedback. I played it and never finished it. Yes even I got interested to buy because slightly reminds of old BG games and then a version of Dungeons Dragons. I played WOW MMO for over 3 years happy and satisfied more or less and I got so annoyed and bored in Pathfinder 1 that I never finished it. Well fine I can admit that if you play Pathfinder 1 now it has less bugs when it was released. I played Pathfinder 1 immediately when it was released with lots of bugs. Well so nowadays when bugs fixed more or less better then when full release was.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 14/08/21 04:42 PM.
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Google has it where 91% liked Kingmaker. Steam has it as mostly positive with 78% liking it.

Personally I like it but never finished it. Will finish it eventually

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Kingmaker on release wasn't finished. (For me it couldn't be played beyond Act 1) but playing it now is a totally different experience. Keep that in mind when listening to reviews of it.

Also, If you like WoW then your RPG expectations are I would guess diametrically opposed to Kingmaker's design.

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Originally Posted by Veilburner
Google has it where 91% liked Kingmaker. Steam has it as mostly positive with 78% liking it.

Personally I like it but never finished it. Will finish it eventually
It was roughly 7/10 at full release professional reviews and I agree on that. Wait super good why have you not finished it if it is so good grin.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 14/08/21 04:57 PM.
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I don't know a lot about the different classes and all that. Already bought WOTR. Will probably play that first

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Originally Posted by Veilburner
I don't know a lot about the different classes and all that. Already bought WOTR. Will probably play that first
Yes ok I have never said Pathfinder 2 is bad. Likely hopefully Pathfinder 2 is better then Pathfinder 1 I will wait for professional reviews. Well it is true WOW MMO gamplay is different. However It did play through many older games and then Pillars of Eternity. I would say POE reminds of Pathfinder more or less at least. Well though POE is not Dungeons Dragons ( but reminds lot of Dungeons Dragons) it reminds more of Pathfinder then say DOS2.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 14/08/21 05:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by Danielbda
How the fuck Kingmaker wasn't a success? It sold around 2 million copies, considering the game was sold at 40 dollars, that's US$ 80 million in revenue for a game that cost 900k to make.

+ WotR also managed to raise more money on kickstarter than DOS2 did. Though I also remember it got a substantial boost from the reveal of turn-based mode being supported at launch, along with BG3 being revealed to be exclusively turn-based while the kickstarter campaign for WotR was still running. I think a lot of the hopes behind WotR doing well is a recognition that somehow, the Pathfinder games have become the last remaining major cRPG series to carry the RTwP torch.

Originally Posted by Sozz
Also, If you like WoW then your RPG expectations are I would guess diametrically opposed to Kingmaker's design.

I'm not even sure how WoW is really relevant to all this. Game has a nonsensical excuse plot at this point, and it even having a place in a talk about cRPG design is incredibly demeaning to the cRPGs.

FF14 on the other hand molded me into someone with a great appreciation for world building.

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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
Originally Posted by Danielbda
How the fuck Kingmaker wasn't a success? It sold around 2 million copies, considering the game was sold at 40 dollars, that's US$ 80 million in revenue for a game that cost 900k to make.

+ WotR also managed to raise more money on kickstarter than DOS2 did. Though I also remember it got a substantial boost from the reveal of turn-based mode being supported at launch, along with BG3 being revealed to be exclusively turn-based while the kickstarter campaign for WotR was still running.

Originally Posted by Sozz
Also, If you like WoW then your RPG expectations are I would guess diametrically opposed to Kingmaker's design.

I'm not even sure how WoW is really relevant to all this. Game has a nonsensical excuse plot at this point, and it even having a place in a talk about cRPG design is incredibly demeaning to the cRPGs.

FF14 on the other hand molded me into someone with a great appreciation for world building.
Whatever fits your nickname while your location is CZE your nickname sounds Asian . WOW vs Final Fantasy MMO is offtopic though nowadays WOW number 1 and FFIV MMO second in popularity of active players. I am not interested in them now but Ashes of Creation MMO due to PvP interest me a lot but that release date is far in the future. Oh and I did see WOW movie in cinema and liked it very much and saying it has no lore or story is bullshit. Now these games Pathfinder 2 and BG3 are different kind of satisfaction I am interested in them due to the PvE content though BG3 you can play single player or up to maximum 4 players cooperative multiplayer. Lol Pathfinder 2 is not so close to old BG games. Why does it not support cooperative multiplayer? There is nothing wrong play solo games, but to add cooperative multiplayer as an option would be great improvement to Pathfinder games.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 14/08/21 05:41 PM.
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Any game where you have to look into supplementary material to understand the in-game story does not have a place at the table when we talk about good narratives. And a big part of the current exodus from that game is also fueled by a big plot thread having a very disappointing conclusion after about a whole year of no new content beforehand. I see the situation there and realize that our 4-5 month wait for new content in BG3 was really nothing in comparison.

FF15 fell into that greedy trap of supplementary material, and people rightfully slam it for that. The real reason people have high hopes for 16 in particular is that it's being helmed by actually competent writers from the FF14/Ivalice teams, despite its seemingly generic fantasy look at first glance.

And my name is a direct reference to a much older game series that has long passed its time, with one of the most intriguing hybrid real time action-RPG/turn-based deck building combat systems I've ever seen, more than anything else. Really the only deck building game I actually liked. I naturally gravitate towards any game with interesting world building or exceptionally well designed combat systems on a mechanical level, though I wonder why I never discovered the glory of cRPGs earlier than DOS2's release.

(I still need to actually play Disco Elysium. A cRPG going all in on the writing without any traditional combat is also just as novel, and many people don't even have to play the game to recognize its genius. A single screenshot seems to be enough to convince me how good it is.)

On the topic of multiplayer, implementing multiplayer is a big investment. Most cRPGs are Unity engine games on top of that. DOS, DOS2, and BG3 aren't, so it's almost like Larian had to build a new engine for the purpose of multiplayer above all. Coincidentally, the company behind the Unity engine recently acquired a company called Parsec, of which I had only heard about it very recently as a third party method to play Solasta as a multiplayer game. From what little I've looked into it, it appears to be a screenshare sort of thing for the purpose of multiplayer gaming? It makes me think the acquisition could have something to do with implementing native multiplayer support into the Unity engine, which could result in multiplayer support for cRPGs not being such a hurdle to implement in the future.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 14/08/21 06:04 PM.
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Well I find this talk about Final Fantasy so "great" BLAH BLAH boring. I do agree BG3 should really add more content to Early Access next patch 6 like a new class release and perhaps more. I think they sorry waste slightly ( well not saying hate it find it more like average) their time with those Panel from Hell newest one I did not even look on it through when they did their live roleplaying in castle though I did listen to info about the game. Simply please add more content like example classes Barbarian, Bard, Monk, Paladin and Sorcerer at least one of them to next patch.

Well sure add multiplayer would increase the budget of Solasta or Pathfinder games, but even ancient old BG1 supported multiplayer in LAN. Well and Neverwinter Nights 1 is old today, but it supported multiplayer with lots of players in player driven servers.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 14/08/21 06:10 PM.
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I will make a rant of POE (PILLARS OF ETERNITY 1 and 2), Solasta and Pathfinder 1 and 2.

They advertize we are like games like Baldurs Gate 1 and Baldurs Gate 2.

A complete lie!

BG1 and BG2 support multiplayer.

There is a trend of we are new game company then lets make a Kickstart and then release a game with average graphics (or worse Solasta is ugly) and not MULTIPLAYER.

BG1 an BG2 are 5 STAR CLASSICS: Sorry none of the above games I consider truly 5 star even though I finished playing througyh POE games that I consider 8/10. Solasta is so freaking boring and average that I have not yet even finished it full of riddles that I hate consider it 6.5/10. In POE1 and POE2 you can manually change your character portraits to whatever you want. That is impossible in Solasta that generates it from they ugly doll like characters.

Last edited by Terminator2020; 14/08/21 08:27 PM.
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Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
(I still need to actually play Disco Elysium. A cRPG going all in on the writing without any traditional combat is also just as novel, and many people don't even have to play the game to recognize its genius. A single screenshot seems to be enough to convince me how good it is.)
I mean, it's doing Planescape again but without crappy bits that no one liked. I need to give DE another go, now when it got new content.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Saito Hikari
(I still need to actually play Disco Elysium. A cRPG going all in on the writing without any traditional combat is also just as novel, and many people don't even have to play the game to recognize its genius. A single screenshot seems to be enough to convince me how good it is.)
I mean, it's doing Planescape again but without crappy bits that no one liked. I need to give DE another go, now when it got new content.

Just bought it yesterday. Enjoying it and highly recommend. Writing is great so far. Very immersive imho. And darkly funny. Inspired to buy by a video posted in this thread! And the current sale price on Steam.

Never played PWoR…reviews in here at least seem pretty mixed. But might give it a go if BG3 Patch 6 does not have the Sorcerer or Monk class.

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Something I love about WotR; Combat is turn based AND realtime with pause! Pick witch-ever you prefer during battle.

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Originally Posted by timebean
Just bought it yesterday. Enjoying it and highly recommend. Writing is great so far. Very immersive imho. And darkly funny. Inspired to buy by a video posted in this thread! And the current sale price on Steam.

Never played PWoR…reviews in here at least seem pretty mixed. But might give it a go if BG3 Patch 6 does not have the Sorcerer or Monk class.

Nice to hear that. Again, Planescape and DE are very different titles, the only thing in common they are text heavy and isometric. As a player, you get two completely different experiences.

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Well, you're a corpse trying to piece together you're identity after a traumatic event, with serious philosophical divergences. Disco deals a bit more with political philosophy (though not entirely seriously).

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That is an oversimplification. PST is more much more lore-based, party-based, explores completely different themes and the writing style/narration also differs vastly. And I am not even touching the atmosphere, art-style and mechanics. There are plenty more differences than similarities.

I would describe PST as surrealistic and DE as psychedelic.

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