Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 68 of 101 1 2 66 67 68 69 70 100 101
Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
You too AerezDrey!

Here, just while I'm at it, and since it's come up many times, an only slightly weaker (but still compelling) argument that we should at least have a party of five, cause...

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Undeniably sound logic lol
I'm still pulling for six though

Last edited by Black_Elk; 21/08/21 07:32 AM.
Joined: Aug 2020
old hand
Online Content
old hand
Joined: Aug 2020
Originally Posted by The Composer
Originally Posted by Archaven
Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I think if someone bothers to show up here, it probably means they are into game design and old school forums communication, which I'm sure is an even narrower subset. But they did say they wanted a gang to iterate with, so even a fraction of a fraction is better than nothing. I mean it's all just in the vain hope, that the developers might be more inclined to at least check out their own forums, if not endless reddit and steam threads. Even here the stuff just comes flying daily, so perhaps its just a repetitive bump echo chamber, but at least it keeps the thread title in view.

I still see party size 6 as the benchmark for EA feedback responsiveness. They said it would be mod'able, or Swen did in a glancing comment from one of the earliest promo vids, but honestly it would be so much better if the devs just built it in, so we could have native UI support. I understand the point about being forced to use more of the characters' abilities with the cap at 4, that's fine, roll with 4 then if its more fun. But for those of us who want the gold box vibe 4 is never going to cut it. 6 for the win!

i only play bg3 EA and completed it just once before the druid reveal. did larian made some changes to the UI that purposely restrict the modding of adding party characters more than 4? if larian did that on purpose like how obsidian did with pillars of eternity 2, that is a real bummer. i may not trust larian anymore.

There has been steps towards the opposite, however some elements in-game are only designed for parties of four, such as beds at camp causing some known issues with 6-player mods. I faintly remember some comments of aiming to open up modding more for user content such as that, but also modding support isn't provided until sometime after full release. Right now modding only consists of user-created applications to unpack .pak files from the game directory, and edit files in text editors. Unlike actual mod support similar to Dos2, which would allow modders to take the rest into account, such as placing down two more beds at camp, etc.

So Larian isn't actively trying to combat modders, but supporting it isn't on the agenda until full release either. (Which is why I'm saving my energy until full release, personally.)

This is kind of off-topic, but I really don't get why there are bedrolls for the characters in your party. I have to imagine there's some sort of setpiece at some point where the bedrolls and sleeping in that arrangement matters, because I find their presence very weird. Every character already has a tent of their own after all, what do the bedrolls add or accomplish?

Joined: Nov 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
Actually, I kinda echo this, the party members could all have their sleeping stuff at their tent. Arguable that'd make it easier to have a larger party size and would just be easier in the long run, especially if we ever ditch the main camp for a house or tavern.

Joined: Mar 2013
A
addict
Offline
addict
A
Joined: Mar 2013
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
Originally Posted by The Composer
Originally Posted by Archaven
Originally Posted by Black_Elk
I think if someone bothers to show up here, it probably means they are into game design and old school forums communication, which I'm sure is an even narrower subset. But they did say they wanted a gang to iterate with, so even a fraction of a fraction is better than nothing. I mean it's all just in the vain hope, that the developers might be more inclined to at least check out their own forums, if not endless reddit and steam threads. Even here the stuff just comes flying daily, so perhaps its just a repetitive bump echo chamber, but at least it keeps the thread title in view.

I still see party size 6 as the benchmark for EA feedback responsiveness. They said it would be mod'able, or Swen did in a glancing comment from one of the earliest promo vids, but honestly it would be so much better if the devs just built it in, so we could have native UI support. I understand the point about being forced to use more of the characters' abilities with the cap at 4, that's fine, roll with 4 then if its more fun. But for those of us who want the gold box vibe 4 is never going to cut it. 6 for the win!

i only play bg3 EA and completed it just once before the druid reveal. did larian made some changes to the UI that purposely restrict the modding of adding party characters more than 4? if larian did that on purpose like how obsidian did with pillars of eternity 2, that is a real bummer. i may not trust larian anymore.

There has been steps towards the opposite, however some elements in-game are only designed for parties of four, such as beds at camp causing some known issues with 6-player mods. I faintly remember some comments of aiming to open up modding more for user content such as that, but also modding support isn't provided until sometime after full release. Right now modding only consists of user-created applications to unpack .pak files from the game directory, and edit files in text editors. Unlike actual mod support similar to Dos2, which would allow modders to take the rest into account, such as placing down two more beds at camp, etc.

So Larian isn't actively trying to combat modders, but supporting it isn't on the agenda until full release either. (Which is why I'm saving my energy until full release, personally.)

This is kind of off-topic, but I really don't get why there are bedrolls for the characters in your party. I have to imagine there's some sort of setpiece at some point where the bedrolls and sleeping in that arrangement matters, because I find their presence very weird. Every character already has a tent of their own after all, what do the bedrolls add or accomplish?

I think bedrolls are much easier to implement or less effort than tent especially if the game mechanic are allowing the party to rest at ANYWHERE as long as you have the camp supplies. I did not play and check out the latest BG3 EA on how it is currently implemented. I only finished EA once before the druid reveal.

Basically, in pathfinder kingmaker or wrath of the righteous, they have same bedrolls as well. You will see a camp with a surrounding of 6 bedrolls. I don't think it's difficult to implement other than Larian perhaps want to make camping looks more appealing. i would rather have Larian spend their time on priorities.

Joined: Feb 2021
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
It's because everyone sleeps under the stars out in the open. It's common for a party to sleep around a campfire like that. Haven't you ever been camping? Who sleeps in tents?

😜

Last edited by GM4Him; 22/08/21 04:18 AM.
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by GM4Him
It's because everyone sleeps under the stars out in the open. It's common for a party to sleep around a campfire like that. Haven't you ever been camping? Who sleeps in tents?

😜
People who don't like to be eaten alive by insects?

Joined: Dec 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by GM4Him
It's because everyone sleeps under the stars out in the open. It's common for a party to sleep around a campfire like that. Haven't you ever been camping? Who sleeps in tents?

😜

If Larian wants to go for maximum realism, the entire party should get attacked by swarms of mosquitoes at some point.

Joined: Nov 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
A rabid squirrel bites us in our sleep forcing SH to cure our disease.

Joined: May 2021
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: May 2021
It’s because their bodies are blistering hot from the constant direct sunlight they endure while adventuring in Area 1. Bedrolls under stars are their only relief.

😝

Joined: Aug 2021
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2021
i'm sure it's been mentioned but one downside of a party of 6 is that you'd have to add more enemies to keep balance, making combat take even longer.
In a RTWP game this is a non-issue because combat is so fast to the point you need to add trash encounters. But in turned based, it can make things feel really sluggish. I already feel some encounters in BG3 are way too slow when too many creatures are involved (i.e. Shattered Sanctuary).

Joined: Feb 2021
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
i'm sure it's been mentioned but one downside of a party of 6 is that you'd have to add more enemies to keep balance, making combat take even longer.
In a RTWP game this is a non-issue because combat is so fast to the point you need to add trash encounters. But in turned based, it can make things feel really sluggish. I already feel some encounters in BG3 are way too slow when too many creatures are involved (i.e. Shattered Sanctuary).

Turn based doesn't HAVE to be slow with a party of 6. Larian already sped it up once. They could do more to improve the AI and keep the game rolling. In Pathfinder and Solasta, which are also turn based (or can be), you can have combats with 6 party members and the battle isn't slowed down at all. I have a hard time with this being a reason for not having 6 party members because other games can and have done it. X-com can have up to 6 party members, Pathfinder and Solasta, which are D&D games, CAN have it (though Solasta is mostly 4 party members, you can gain up to 2 additional at various points in the game). You can have animal companions, etc. as well. The game CAN move fast even with turn based. It's not impossible. It's just that it is slow right now.

Joined: Sep 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
i'm sure it's been mentioned but one downside of a party of 6 is that you'd have to add more enemies to keep balance, making combat take even longer.
In a RTWP game this is a non-issue because combat is so fast to the point you need to add trash encounters. But in turned based, it can make things feel really sluggish. I already feel some encounters in BG3 are way too slow when too many creatures are involved (i.e. Shattered Sanctuary).
This has been mentioned, yes. The counter argument has also been mentioned, namely that BG3 could use divided experience. If you divide exp among the characters in the party, then a party of 6 levels up more slowly than a party of 4, and the game mostly auto balances itself.

Edit: Also, people are arguing for the option of playing with a party of 6, not a requirement or expectation. Encounters would still be based around party sizes of 4; it's not like we want the game to check in real time what our party size is, and then adjust # of enemies depending on whether we have 4, 6, or 1 characters. Divided exp also allows players to use party sizes smaller than 4, where characters would level up faster!

Last edited by mrfuji3; 23/08/21 04:59 AM.
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
There aren't more ennemies in Wasteland or Xcom than in BG3. Party of 6 does not always mean more ennemies. This is a wrong argument.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 23/08/21 06:37 AM.
Joined: Aug 2021
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2021
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Party of 6 does not always mean more ennemies. This is a wrong argument.

All else equal, if you allow parties of 6 right now, the game becomes much easier. You could balance this through split XP as mrfuji suggested, or by adding more enemies / stronger enemies.

Last edited by polliwagwhirl; 23/08/21 06:52 AM.
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2020
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Party of 6 does not always mean more ennemies. This is a wrong argument.

All else equal, if you allow parties of 6 right now, the game becomes much easier. You could balance this through split XP as mrfuji suggested, or by adding more enemies / stronger enemies.

Yes, and there are other things you can do too to increase the difficulty of a game.
But you don't HAVE to add more ennemies.

Some battles in BG3 already have more ennemies than hack & slash games. It would be terrible to add even more goblins grin

Last edited by Maximuuus; 23/08/21 07:02 AM.
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Party of 6 does not always mean more ennemies. This is a wrong argument.

All else equal, if you allow parties of 6 right now, the game becomes much easier. You could balance this through split XP as mrfuji suggested, or by adding more enemies / stronger enemies.
Which means that when you do all of the above in equal measure having “bigger fights” becomes hardly an actual issue.

Joined: Mar 2013
A
addict
Offline
addict
A
Joined: Mar 2013
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by polliwagwhirl
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Party of 6 does not always mean more ennemies. This is a wrong argument.

All else equal, if you allow parties of 6 right now, the game becomes much easier. You could balance this through split XP as mrfuji suggested, or by adding more enemies / stronger enemies.

Yes, and there are other things you can do too to increase the difficulty of a game.
But you don't HAVE to add more ennemies.

Some battles in BG3 already have more ennemies than hack & slash games. It would be terrible to add even more goblins grin

if there are enough enemies, then it would mean placement & positioning, add variety to the encounter and stats changes. I'm not sure at the moment if Larian did any stats change to the bestiary. If they did, then i see no issue here if that's the case.

Joined: Oct 2020
L
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
L
Joined: Oct 2020
How is adding two more characters going to take them longer to make the game?

It's been done through mod already.

That's a pretty half ass excuse or counter argument tbh, no offense.

Logically, it makes no sense, since they're introducing more characters anyways, so that's basically an out of your "where the sun don't shine" answer tbh.

There's a whole list of reasons that goes on for so long, no one wants to write it all, about how just adding in one more character, not to mention 6 opens up so much more possibilities while you hardcore 4 player on a team people wouldn't even be affected much. Since you still get what you want, a 4 player team in a single or co op game.
But somehow that still affects your life enough to come up with the whole "it'll take longer to make a game, by adding something that's already planned to potentially be in the game already, but Larion is just debating if they want to or not take that path.

Following that logic I bet you guys get mad at people for playing a single player game a certain way that's not like yours too huh?

The difficulty argument is kinda invalid too, it's as if you're saying Larian would be half ass and not scale enemies accordingly.
The freedom of choice is always a good thing.
Some folks uses one character only, are you 4 player squad gon bash on them for playing with one character only?
Just let folks enjoy their game the way they want.
Heck if they have a 50 people on the team option, who cares bruh, let them.

It's like you're mad at me, because I shag my girl last night while you don't have one.
Me riding a car while you chose to walk.
I choose to hit the gym while you play video games.
How are you getting mad at folks for doing stuff that's not really affecting the choices you make?
How does it affect you at the end of the day?
It don't.

Are you going to pull my hands away from my girl as we walk because you have no one to hold yours? No, so why whine about people asking for more party members in a game that it makes sense to have a few more?

It's like you guys are stuck in this 4 player on a team loop mentality that's been the trend with games. You get offended at any mention of some different.
Or you probably don't have more than 4 friends or whatever.

Just let people get options man. Especially when the reasoning is valid enough vs "I don't like it because I've been playing 4 player teams my whole life" or "I'm too lazy to even play a game now that it has a function I won't use, so I'll whine about how hard it is to keep up with the game now that it has one more teammate on it."

Some folks man. 🤦🏻‍♂️
Closeminded ass community tbh.

Last edited by Lenggao; 30/08/21 11:53 AM.
Joined: Feb 2021
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
It all seems to be about character management. 2 more characters makes the item management system even worse than it already is. It's a huge pain point now. Imagine 2 more on the team.

That said, you shouldn't base it on janky item management. Fix that and adding 2 more won't hurt the game.

Oh, and about balance. But balance can be adjusted easy enough. Use proper 5e stats for one, and if you need to, add more enemies. There you go. Now 6 party members works.

The pluses for 6 more than outweigh the minuses.

Joined: Mar 2013
A
addict
Offline
addict
A
Joined: Mar 2013
i know larian love to promote their 4 person multiplayer game. but i hope they should really support those who like 6 party members single player games. i don't think it's a difficult thing to just allow 6 party character in single player and just fine tune those combat encounters. since larian games have limited encounters and no random ones, i don't think it's a difficult task for them to fine-tune. compared to pathfinder kingmaker which they have some sort of random endless dungeons, it can't be that a small indie company can do it but bg3 as AAA game could not?

Page 68 of 101 1 2 66 67 68 69 70 100 101

Moderated by  Nicou 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5