Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous vs BG3

aren't humans something like 75% of the population though in faerun?

They are, but adventurers are the exceptional small percent, and the exceptional small percent is much more mixed in of exceptional beings from all walks of life and speices of creature, rather than the extremely populous peasantry.

So, when we have a cast of five, and more than twenety races to choose from, and they choose to give us, of that five, two and half humans, one and half elves, and a token alien... it just seems like a really bland, boring, uninspired choice.

you know we still have a Tiefling, a halfling, and already have a probably Drow in Minthara. So, I think we will be fine in the longroad, I wouldn't be surprised if they add a Dragonborn as well later on and or a dwarf.

We have a lot in common in our preferences. For a long time I only would play cRPGs, and couldn't even get myself to branch out into ARPGs. I also am limited to liking only fantasy setting games. But then because of the lack of any good Western fantasy cRPGs to play, I tentatively tried out the DA and Witcher games and ended up loving them. I now even prefer the third person perspective to the top-down because I love being able to see my own character and all the details of their person including clothing and equipment. But, I do also love playing city/base/empire building games.

IwD is actually a very good game despite being a combat-oriented game. It actually has a pretty good story and fun quests. Unfortunately we don't have an EE for IwD2, but there is currently a modder project underway to "enhance" IwD2. I would also recommend taking a look at Black Geyser, which is launching on Steam and GoG as an Early Access game today!

The great think about Kingmaker (and thus I assume will be true for WotR) is the extreme prevalence of tooltips. Most pathfinder-specific lore - locations, famous people, historical events, gods, etc - was highlighed when mentioned in dialogue. You could then mouse over these terms to get a description, ranging from a couple sentences to a few paragraphs. I was only barely familiar with the world of Golarion when I played Kingmaker; these mouse-overs gave me pretty much all the information and context I wanted and needed to understand the world and my place in it through the game's campaign.

I admittedly started with JRPGs rather than cRPGs, but I remember Baldur's Gate 1 being one of the first things I played upon the family getting a computer! It and Neverwinter Nights were a big part of my childhood, along with a year-long single playthrough of Morrowind (which branched me into TES universe, which then took me over to Fallout, but that's a different setting altogether). The unfortunate lack of good cRPGs during that time period meant I was more often than not playing RPGs on consoles - thus the interest in DA, TES:IV, Fable, and a fair few others. Upon getting a computer of my own near college, though, I started picking things up there again - and I'm glad I did, because the Witcher games are some of my favorites!

And yes, I've only played a bit of IWD thus far (not quite all that much time in my day to devote to games), but it does start out quite intriguing and I'm interested to see where it will go, even if I do miss the inter-party dynamics of 'companions' rather than player-made characters. I tried to remedy that by making characters based on stuff my friends would play.

I will be sure to look into that, though it might be a while before I can purchase it, if it interests me - just spent on WotR, after all, and that'll be taking up my weekend next week! :p



Ohhh, I remember a few games have done that in the past and I honestly adored that method of feeding relevant background information to a player! Of course my other preference is in-game books to read, but a little database is just as good.

You're (likely*) in luck again! Kingmaker also had plenty of books** and notes to read, some which were plot-relevant and some which just added flavor to the world: histories, myths, fiction, correspondences, journals, etc.

*Again, might not be true for WotR. People who have played the Beta, can you comment on tooltips and books in WotR compared to Km?
**By books, I mean ~1-5 pages long. But I assume that's also what you meant.

They use the same method of the first game or other games like tyranny, They added a lot of lore and an ingame encyclopedia you can check, a lot of tooltips and tutorial info (You can uncheck it in options if you do not want them) maybe even more than the first game.

They also included tooltips that explain if some roleplay choice you made later is causing what is happening (you can reveal it or not) . They added a lot of books, including some lore books that allow your character to learn recipes or get knowledge.
More lore is also added to the dialogue trees, that unlike in some later series that catch the consolitis disease of binary questions( Kings bounty 2, for example) you can talk with many npcs in safe areas and find 5-7 dialogue options in most dialogues. You can ask many npcs about his story or lore about the world you are in. Many of them are fully voiced too.



I checked the game, I heard about it but didn´t know you can play the beta already. It looks interesting. Checked a mute streaming and it seems the kind of game I would enjoy Thanks!

I found funny that they have an offer that ends September the 2th =D

This is almost eerie. It was the same for me, although I'm probably at least half a generation older than you. I grew up in a developing country so no computer for me as a kid, and then after I came to the US for college I got to being able to afford a computer of my own only in grad school. And the very first game I bought for that very first computer, in 1998, was BG1.

This is only slightly left field, but I like that the Pathfinder games have kept with the tradition of 2D portraits, since at least I can still make use of the art archives there. Even if the 20 some odd portraits they're likely to include with the game itself probably won't blow my socks off, they do get a laurel for not ditching the 2D portrait concept entirely.

I'm not totally anti-3D models for portraits in a modern D&D game, I just haven't seen that brought to a level that can really compete with like half a century's worth of fantasy illustration that already exists out there in the world. In BG3 my character options are pretty limited based on the models and concepts that Larian provides, and I'm sure I won't be able to use any of these BG3 heads 10 years from now in any games that might follow.

The high rez Icewind Dale portraits on the other hand, work just as well in Pillars or Pathfinder today as they did in the Black Isle games way back when. Or vice versa. I almost feel like I'm getting kinda taken by buying into a D&D game with no portraits like this in BG3. Aside from those 5 splash loadscreens of the Origins, that we see collaged together in the banner above, there's just not much here. It's not going to contribute to the fantasy portraiture legacy beyond that I guess, which is a little sad.

Pathfinder is at least carrying the torch on that front, though admittedly not really providing the best of the best according to my highest standards for their default spread lol.

It annoys me slightly that the Wizards have access to such much talent, and own the rights to so many thousands of images, and yet don't seem to ever dish it up in a form that's broadly usable for these kinds of games. I practically gave myself carpal tunnel creating targa files for use in NWN for my old portrait packs, but it was like the most inconvenient image handling scheme imaginable. I think I assembled like 30 years worth of material there, but which could never go on their NWN vaults, just for copyright reasons. They had no love for Jah-Din's thankless efforts there lol. Honestly though, you'd think by now, a game with the official backing could provide portraits from past official publications, or pay whatever pittance in back royalties might be required, so that I could play a game with characters inspired from the old boxes, covers and backpages. Just like cropping their all time hall of fame into a series of consistent headshots and whatnot, so the sizing isn't all random. Maybe labelling them in a way that gives all those artists some credit and another spin at the wheel.

I guess it's just too sensible an idea to make work? I'm sure they figure that enthusiasts will just do it for them for free anyway, and why bother with the logistics to make it actually work in a way that gets old timers paid or affords some name rec, when people would rather pillage pinterest. I suppose its just an unfortunate feature of modernity, that nobody wants to pay for anything that isn't video or animated or which doesn't have a time signature built into it. Everyone expects awesome still images to materialize for free out of nowhere I guess? But they could use their digital gaming platforms in the exact same way they use magic cards, if they actually wanted to. I wish they'd hire an art director to harmonize new material with the old like that. Assemble and curate it in a way that provides a consistent and enduring vibe for the whole.

That would have been such a cool way to do a BG game. Like they could have just hired Dave Rapoza to bring all the BG1/2 characters up to speed for a revamped look, along with a few classics from other campaigns too, and then made those all part of the ongoing thing. Bring back some of the oldies. Found a new gang of a dozen kick ass painters like Black Isle did, and really make it special that way. Alas, I think the curtain may have fallen already. But I still bought WotR, just to keep the hopes alive, since they're at least giving it some kind of nod. Maybe they'll come back strong and enduring like Repin over there? Or maybe not. But it pleases me that I can at least make use of custom portraits in Pathfinder, even if I can't in the Realms anymore.

Illustration and Fantasy go together, there's nothing better.

3D rendered 2D hand drawn art, to looks exactly like the illustrations. Now thats RPG next gen in my book I think this will be the new <style> couple decades from now. We are still in that <check out my 3D modelling skills, how REALISTIC and DETAILED it looks!!> "proceeds to snap face sensors on a real human being to process into a computer...." age.

I mean right?

I had a thought the other day, about how cool it would be if they could make the 3D models look more like classic illustration or even pen and inks for a portrait capture feature. I've never been particularly impressed with simple photo filters of the sort that just turn iphone faces into line drawings, but what would be an interesting application of that kind of tech, would be like a virtual fantasy illustration studio for D&D. You know where one could transform 3D models and environments into something more stylized, with lighting controls, or pen and ink versions even. Like basically some way to direct shoot and rotoscope what the game engine is already doing, but at a further level of abstraction or stylization. Then the dungeon master could not only create simple portraits for NPCs using such a tool, but could also set a narrative scene and illustrate it as a still. Like basically screen cap'ing avatar mannequins, but in an actual environmental setting with some tools to make it look a little different than the in-game modelling.

A simple portrait creator, might include something very similar to what we have now, which is basically a head/bust shot at the smallest scale and a full view avatar in the char sheet. But the figures could be moved and animated in different ways to allow for characterization.

A simple headshot might include emotive facial expressions, and a way to do simple background elements as well, like a color gradient or exterior/interior backdrop, haze smoke or glow effects, and things of that sort. Most importantly, directional lighting. An uplit character can give off a totally different vibe from a toplit or sidelit character.

For a head/bust scale do the same but with a basic outfit designer.

For the full body portrait, an articulated manaquin with dynamic posing, plus weapons or accessories like books or spell effect jazz hands and the like.

Then do something similar for the MM, just with monsters instead of NPCs haha

I just think something like that would be such an instant hit for any game that gets there first. I'd like to see it in a dungeons and dragons game just because the applications would be rad. Like it could work digitally and for PnP, if it was done well. Then have it launch with a flagship campaign. Like Baldur's Gate would have been a cool choice, but since they missed the boat on it, perhaps Icewind Dale 3, or if we ever get a Neverwinter 3. One could hope. I mean someone has to do it eventually right?

Hmmm... GOG Galaxy is now downloading a "pre load".......

just pre-ordered it Of course I won't be playing it for a while, going back to school midlife means I need to focus, but i'll get to it eventually.

If you are a backer you can preload the game in Gog, steam or epic games, you can redeem your key and choose the one you like the most

I´m going GOG, tbh.

You cannot play the entire game until September the 2nd at 18.00 CET so I think I will play the beta for a while, even tho the saved games would not work, it´s good to try characters.


May the gamer gods bless summer vacation =D

There's some interesting reference material in the extras to go through in the mean time. My biggest worry for this game is keeping my expectations in check considering how much it's been talked up around here.

Is it? because most of the thread was about "I hope wotr does not have the same as in the first game, because what I didn´t like about kingmaker was [insert long post here]

And a few people that actually played the beta answering "Yes, that is the same in WoTR" or "they changed that in Wotr"

Like most threads about WOTR, it was just another covert thread about the first game =D

Is it just for backers? Because I'm seeing an option to preload on Steam this morning, as well. (Though I will needs do that later after work, no time right now, but it's exciting!)

I do wish I had backed the game earlier/found out about it in time to, as I'm full chomping at the bit waiting for release. At least having the beta would have kept me occupied. Is it Thursday yet?
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