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Originally Posted by Sozz
OP did it best in the first post as far as visual examples

-*snipped text and images*-

I already went over that information, but, thank you for the effort. A few examples I elected to share are here and here.

Anyhow, from my point of view, there is no joy in the idea that - apart from the Aquatic Elves and Avariel, who both possess differing anatomy that is distinct even from a distance - all of the elves (Sun/High, Moon, Wood/Wild and Dark) are only superficially different from one another. Naturally, there are some unifying features between them all and there is always the possibility of exceptions to the rule ("Goodness and stars above, are you certain you do not have ancestors from Evermeet?", he said to the curiously blushing drow.), but to say there's no real variation otherwise? That is the path of least resistance. I prefer the journey of a thousand miles which begins with a single step; enough effort poured into the little details is what makes a piece of art endure.

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Originally Posted by TheAscendent
Do Elf PC's go into the trance/meditation instead of sleeping?

Sozz beat me to it hehe

Yeah they sit cross legged with a 100 yard stare basically.

The main difference between Elf and Drow female heads that I can see, is that the one defaults to makeup 3 (cat's eyes) and the other to make up 9 (the smokey eyes.) They also start with hair at opposite sides of the haircut presets, different colored eyes and slightly different saturation in the skin tones. But otherwise the heads are the same. Those secondary elements do combine to make them seem rather different, but the shape the skull and basic features is the same. I think heads 3 and 4 are fine, they have some angles at the bottom of the skull and good ears, but not really the eyes or cheeks of the more stylized elven looks out there. All the other heads look more explicitly human to me, and I think would pass for half elves better than elves. I wouldn't mine one or two otherworldly elves with the more triangular skulls and somewhat larger eyes. Though I understand why its hard for them to make both looks look convincing next to each other.

I think at one end of the spectrum you have faerie looking creatures more the way Alan Lee drew them, and at the other end faerie looking creatures more the way Brian Froud drew them. Which is a convenient divide if you like their book, and about the best one can get for a marriage between the two extremes lol. I wouldn't mind having faces that serviced both preferences to be honest. They just need a lot more preset heads to make this work well. Like considerably more heads/faces than we have currently. There is really only have 1 head per gender per race that I like enough to use on a PC, which is kind of a bummer. Though the faces I do like are done quite well, there's just not enough of them or enough variety.

Last edited by Black_Elk; 28/08/21 08:11 AM.
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Every Half-Elf being "Human with pointy ears" isn't exactly thrilling either.

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Originally Posted by DumbleDorf
All the Halfling faces on the other hand made me cry.

At least they don't possess H.R. Giger skulls à la certain 3e artwork grin.

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Originally Posted by Zeraman
Even if the more elvish look isn't doable for facial animation reasons, etc.,

This is a difficult pill to swallow. With all the technology available for three-dimensional animation and all the creative people in the world, you're telling me a lore-accurate Forgotten Realms elf can't be properly animated?

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Originally Posted by deadsanta
This is a pointless thread IMO.

No. Not at all. There are common features that bind the various elves together. Besides which, unless there's some exception I'm blanking on, the "standard" D&D elf that has reached maturity is not goblinesque or built like a human child.

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Originally Posted by Sechrima
I agree that Larian should keep the current heads but add some new ones that look like proper, otherworldly elves (and half-elves). That way they don't have to scrap any of the currently advertised companion designs like Astarion and Shadowheart. At the same time, they'll also please more discerning fans. The more human-like heads I can just pretend are elves with a bit of human ancestry or something.

I'd rather proper heads replace the Humanelves we already have. They're going to look odd by comparison...

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Originally Posted by MarbleNest
I also admit I'm not too terribly fond of some of the features of the elven faces, particularly on males. There's one or two decent ones, though one of them seems to work better with drow tones vs. lighter tones for the other elves. The jaws in particular are obscenely wide for a typical elf design, and it really stands out in a bad way when comparing to half elf faces.

Not to say they should be gotten rid of entirely, as I'm sure there are those who enjoy them greatly. But adding more variety, or even adjusting half elf heads to work for elves as well, would be much appreciated. Currently I have one drow I'm happy with, but the other I made with a half-elf base simply because I didn't like any other faces available in the elven options.

Could not agree more. It's exactly same for me and I really hope that Larian takes a note of this issue with the elven faces.

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Originally Posted by Slippery Catfish
Originally Posted by Maxximenez
Your friendly reminder that the yoked AF, 7 foot tall druid Halsin is a "wood elf".

Dude looks like a cream-colored orc.

He looks like a jacked up half elf to me, and even then his masculine as hell, Chad-like features shatter that. Take the point off his ears and the character is just a large human.

Whoops, I accidentally outlined the problem with BG3's elves.

It is somewhat disheartening, yes. Is Larian pandering to people scared of elves?

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Honestly, BG3 has been a breath of fresh air in the elven department. Especially Halsin - that man single-handedly destroyed the common stereotype of elves being toothpicks with ears. He has my eternal respect for that, and Larian for creating him. Also, I think Tolkien himself didn't like the idea of elves being drawn as effeminate and weak-looking. He imagined them as buff and superhuman, but people liked drawing lithe prettyboys and prettygirls, and it stuck.

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Ahh, the random invoking of Tolkien. It’s like invoking a fantasy Jesus who smokes a pipe.

Tolkien described elves as five things. Tall, slender, fair, with melodious voices, and with a light in their eyes. None of these are Halsin, who is squat, beefcakey, tan, gruff voiced, and as dead eyed as everyone else in game.

The only thing that makes Halsin elvish is his ears. But Tolkien might have had more to say about those, since I am pretty sure he never even described elves as having pointy ears in his books.

But that is all irrelevant. This is DnD. Not Tolkien.

Making the only difference between elves and humans being pointy ears is not a breath of fresh air…it is boring and a bit lazy and the antithesis of both Tolkienesque AND DnD elves.

Last edited by timebean; 12/09/21 11:53 AM.
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Halsin is the child of Beorne and Arwen from LOTR. He's a big, buff shape changer with pointy ears and maybe a few elfish features in his face.

That said, I really like him as well. I agree that it's about time someone created an elf that wasn't the stereotype. I often wondered, do elves ever get fat? Do they have no ability to gain weight or bulk up? Are they always very ugly looking, because most images of elves aren't very attractive to me?

There are SO many types of humans. Why do all elves have to look a certain way?

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Originally Posted by timebean
Ahh, the random invoking of Tolkien. It’s like invoking a fantasy Jesus who smokes a pipe.
Forgotten Realms' elves owe a lot of their aesthetics to artwork on LotR, and that's a fact. So I thought it might be a good idea to point out the original inspiration for modern fantasy elves - like it or not, it's revelant.

And in BG3 some elves could pass as humans, sure. Others are different enough with their green/golden skin. Even though I'm more of a dwarf fan, I never looked at BG3 elves as boring.

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BG3 elves look great! smile

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I honestly don't see why people are blowing a fuse about the look of elves in the game. When I look at my elf female, she looks like an elf to me.

Elves are supposed to be beautiful. When you make them look too different from humans, they look ugly. My opinion, I know, but that's the way I see it.

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Originally Posted by Moradin's hammer
Originally Posted by timebean
Ahh, the random invoking of Tolkien. It’s like invoking a fantasy Jesus who smokes a pipe.
Forgotten Realms' elves owe a lot of their aesthetics to artwork on LotR, and that's a fact. So I thought it might be a good idea to point out the original inspiration for modern fantasy elves - like it or not, it's revelant.

And in BG3 some elves could pass as humans, sure. Others are different enough with their green/golden skin. Even though I'm more of a dwarf fan, I never looked at BG3 elves as boring.

While Tolkien might be indeed be relevant, saying that Tolkien would approve of elves = humans with pointy ears is silly when he never said elves even had pointy ears. Further, pointing out Halsin in particular is also silly because he literally encapsulates the opposite of every descriptor Tolkien ever used for elves. That was mah point.

Now, saying that *you* approve of those design choices is totally valid. Invoking Tolkien willy-nilly was my issue, not anyone’s personal opinion.


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Halsin is the child of Beorne and Arwen from LOTR. He's a big, buff shape changer with pointy ears and maybe a few elfish features in his face.

That said, I really like him as well. I agree that it's about time someone created an elf that wasn't the stereotype. I often wondered, do elves ever get fat? Do they have no ability to gain weight or bulk up? Are they always very ugly looking, because most images of elves aren't very attractive to me?

There are SO many types of humans. Why do all elves have to look a certain way?

Boerne and Arwyn! Lol…love this!! 😜

I don’t mind the elves one way or the other, honestly. Can make what I like with mods like every other rpg, so I am golden.

But then…why have races at all? Why not have a ball of cookie dough for a char creator that we can mold as we like and call what we like, picking stats and proficiencies as we like?

(I would be all for that personally…as long as the game is not WotC).

Last edited by timebean; 12/09/21 09:16 PM.
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Best character creator was Skyrim, imo. Make them how you want.

But it seems "elvish" is all a matter of perspective, and that's the issue. It's like Vulcan. Are they REALLY different from humans? Yes. Stat-wise, yes. Appearance? Pointy ears. That's it. Romulan too. Klingon? Couple of ridges on the face.

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True…but Star Trek did not have the creative freedom one could have with a video game. The budget of the original series where these races were introduced was notoriously low.

Having said that…I would love to see a fat elvish barman with a dirty apron. Lol. That would be pretty funny.

Last edited by timebean; 12/09/21 09:54 PM.
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Originally Posted by Icelyn
BG3 elves look great! smile

BG3 humans with pointy ears look adequate.

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Originally Posted by Moradin's hammer
Originally Posted by timebean
Ahh, the random invoking of Tolkien. It’s like invoking a fantasy Jesus who smokes a pipe.
Forgotten Realms' elves owe a lot of their aesthetics to artwork on LotR, and that's a fact. So I thought it might be a good idea to point out the original inspiration for modern fantasy elves - like it or not, it's revelant.

And in BG3 some elves could pass as humans, sure. Others are different enough with their green/golden skin. Even though I'm more of a dwarf fan, I never looked at BG3 elves as boring.

Tolkien was one source of inspiration among many and this tabletop gaming franchise has evolved quite a bit over time. Also, it is clear that D&D's elves have also diverged significantly since, oh...roughly forty five years ago. Enough with the "but Tolkien" arguments.

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