Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Dec 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Dec 2020
@GM4Him, you can't win arguments against a blackhole. Your best bet is to just avoid it.

On topic: as @IrenicusBG3 said
Quote
They need better people for writing and world-building.

The premise is good, but the execution has been poor. Everything is so gamey right now.

this sums it up for me.

GM4Him #790345 13/09/21 07:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
So here's another example of story inconsistencies. I'm just pointing out what I find as I'm going through stuff.

You enter the storeroom in the tiefling camp. There's Pandirna. She's on the floor with her legs sprawled out. She says, "It was inventory today, but my nerves are shot after the attack."

What attack is she referring to? She certainly wasn't at the grove gate just now helping to fight off the goblins and save Aradin. I can only assume she's referring to the gnoll attack that is brought up multiple times by the tieflings in the grove; you know, the one that killed tieflings like Lahala.

But if that attack was weeks ago, or even longer, why are Pandirna's nerves STILL shot? Certainly, it must have at least been almost a week prior to the MC and the party coming to the grove. After all, as mentioned previously, Halsin and Aradin have been gone for some time. They were expected back a long time before Aradin finally returned.

So is Pandirna in shock from the goblin attack that we were able to wipe out without much of an issue? I mean, even if my party didn't kill those goblins, it really doesn't seem like the goblins were going to win that fight. Aradin might have died, but I really don't think we "saved the grove". If we truly saved the grove from that small of a goblin band, then MAN, them tieflings and druids are totally weak and incapable of fighting. Honestly, the druids must be nothing but total initiates, all of them, because any decent gathering of druids should have been able to wipe out that goblin party no problem. And Zevlor is obviously also a very weak tiefling HELLRIDER!

And, again, Pandirna isn't even at the wall when the fight occurs, so what she SO freaked out about that her nerves are super shot?

What makes sense is that she is referring to the gnoll encounter, since most tieflings refer to the gnoll encounter as a very terrible experience. Lahala was torn to shreds by gnolls, and it deeply affected Alfira.

So what is the explanation here? Is Pandirna referring to the gnoll attack or the goblin raid on the grove gate? I originally assumed the goblin raid, but upon further thought I said to myself, "That can't be right. Makes no sense."

Last edited by GM4Him; 13/09/21 07:16 PM.
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
@GM4Him, you can't win arguments against a blackhole. Your best bet is to just avoid it.

On topic: as @IrenicusBG3 said
Quote
They need better people for writing and world-building.

The premise is good, but the execution has been poor. Everything is so gamey right now.

this sums it up for me.

lol. Hmmm. If I'm not the only one thinking this...

GM4Him #790348 13/09/21 07:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by GM4Him
You enter the storeroom in the tiefling camp. There's Pandirna. She's on the floor with her legs sprawled out. She says, "It was inventory today, but my nerves are shot after the attack."
She is the tiefling Auntie Ethel poisoned? I love that you can heal her with a spell! smile

GM4Him #790351 13/09/21 09:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
Yeah, I'd be pretty upset if I'd been left paralised on the floor by one of Ethels dodgy brews too! And then had to contend with a goblin attack!

GM4Him #790387 14/09/21 01:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
What if ...
She is just in the storage doing inventory ... sudently she hear that there is attack by the gate ... she smiles for herself, grab her bag and take potion she buy from Ethel, gulping that potion in single sip prepared to rush there and help ... and slam to the ground instead, as her legs stop working? laugh

I would be pissed off too.


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
GM4Him #790392 14/09/21 02:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
member
Offline
member
Joined: Oct 2020
If you're looking for good story and story telling let's try pathfinder wrath of the righteous, it's faaaaaaaaaar better.

nice writing, story telling mastered, intriguing story...

Just saying.

Abotu BG3 story ? Everybody willing to bang me at the party was enough for me to get how POOR writing and thinking this game was.

GM4Him #790395 14/09/21 03:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
Hmmm... and what if flying monkeys flew out of her butt too.

Again. Point is, IF that is true, it needs to be specified. Another example. That's all. Just an example of how something is stated in the game, but it isn't clear what they are really talking about. Was it the goblin raid? Was it the gnoll attack on the road? What has her nerves so shot?

And why is it important? Because you can't get a proper gauge on the timeline of events when everything is ambiguous. Did the gnoll attack happen yesterday? Was it 5 months ago?

Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Mar 2020
Location: Belfast
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
On topic: as @IrenicusBG3 said
Quote
They need better people for writing and world-building.

The premise is good, but the execution has been poor. Everything is so gamey right now.

this sums it up for me.
I am not sure how much it is a fault of writers, and how a side effect of Larian's development process.

To have a good narrative and worldbuilding, those need to be given a priority. Story hasn't been Larian's selling point in the past (as it has been in Bioware and Obsidian's case), and while they are working on making their story and characters better, I don't think their priorities have shifted. Writers can have ungrateful job of giving context to stuff other team members came up with, or they can set the direction of the project. Listening to GDC talk about D:OS2 developement, I don't think Larian has a story to tell, rather they come up with "cool" stuff, and then try to make it all work. Which is not uncommon in games, it's just I like when my RPG have narrative far higher on their proproty list.

Joined: May 2021
member
Offline
member
Joined: May 2021
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
What if ...
She is just in the storage doing inventory ... sudently she hear that there is attack by the gate ... she smiles for herself, grab her bag and take potion she buy from Ethel, gulping that potion in single sip prepared to rush there and help ... and slam to the ground instead, as her legs stop working? laugh

I would be pissed off too.

Yeah…this seemed pretty obvious to me too. No idea why the attack she is talking about would be anything other than the attack the grove just experienced. It would be highly unlikely that she is randomly talking about some other attack in the “hidden grove”. Ie…the grove that Zeblor was so pissed about Aradin leading goblins to.

I think Larian can only do so much against deliberate obtuseness when it cones to understanding the story.

Having said that, I too would like to see a more clarity on the order things are happening, as I do agree with other posters that the timeline is hella confusing.

GM4Him #790420 14/09/21 10:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
So get this. I think I have actually managed to work up an accurate, or at least semi-accurate, timeline. I went back through all of my notes and such and worked on putting the timeline together.

You will find my timeline on my fanfic blog here:

https://baldursgate3theafflicted.blogspot.com/2021/08/home.html

The actual video game story seems to take place mid-month of Uktar. That is the 11th month of the year. The tieflings apparently arrived in the 9th month, Eleint roughly around the 10th. Halsin left around the 2nd of Marpenoth, the 10th month.

If this is true, then the tieflings have been in the Grove for 2 months and Halsin and and company have been exploring the Temple of Selune for a whole month.

So, tell me how that makes sense. How long does it take for a group of adventurers to travel to the Temple and discover it is overrun by goblins?

Anyway, check it out for yourself and let me know what you think. I did find that I was able to reconcile a lot of things once I created a timeline for it. Still, the point remains. I had to do a lot of work to figure out what is actually going on in this story for even the most basic things.

Also, still doesn't explain things like why Pandirna is so freaked out after 2 months or about the goblin raid, which was still, imo, a very low key battle and not some earth shaking event that she was a part of.

Last edited by GM4Him; 14/09/21 10:49 PM.
GM4Him #790443 15/09/21 09:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Originally Posted by timebean
I think Larian can only do so much against deliberate obtuseness when it cones to understanding the story.

Having said that, I too would like to see a more clarity on the order things are happening, as I do agree with other posters that the timeline is hella confusing.
Question is why even bother. laugh

You know what i mean right?
Sure, Larian could theoreticaly (not sure how effective it would be) stuff terabytes of hints to the whole area ... so we can get full picture, but once you miss some, you start get the false ideas.
Now, seeing just this topic *some* people just keep repeating their conclusions no matter how little sense it makes ... no matter how many plotholes you find there and show them ... and finaly, no matter how obvious (and sometimes logical) other options are ... damn, sometimes those people are even complaining that their own conclusions do not make any sence ... but still stick to it like glue to your fingers. laugh

Then the important question is:
Will curent situation be any better if Larian provide litteraly anything else than full timeline with all notes and timespan for every single NPC in game? :-/
(And honestly ... do we even want that? :-/ ... and only gods know if that would even help them. :-/
I would rather simply know that Tieflings are here "for some time" than this laugh )

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 15/09/21 12:29 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
GM4Him #790463 15/09/21 12:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
Man RagnarokCzD, that was incredibly rude.

You expect people to respect you but then you attack and nitpick everything that they say and then indirectly criticize them and mock them. You don't come right out and say that I'm an idiot, but you pretty much saying it in your responses.

Let's just stop please. I notice that you don't really post any feedback or suggestions on the site but you comment and criticize and nitpick everybody else's. So if I get a bit emotional in regards to your responses it's because you are constantly attacking my suggestions and making me feel like I have to defend myself and my opinions.

So don't take it personal if I don't respond to you anymore as you have taken it personal in the past when I don't respond to you. It is simply me respectfully declining to comment any further on your opinions and criticisms. This is not a debate forum where one of us is the winner of a debate and the other is a loser. So please stop making it that and let people make their suggestions without receiving the line by line pick your suggestion apart because I think it's stupid and you're an idiot comments.

GM4Him #790465 15/09/21 01:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
I played the game again this morning looking at some of the details again, and I noticed that Zevlor is a hellrider exile. I also found records and documents that state that Elturel went to Avernus already and is now back and the tieflings were expelled because of extreme prejudice there.

So I looked up Elurel and hell riders and the whole backstory about the city. Timeline wise it doesn't line up either with the timeline that has been given in Baldur's Gate 3. According to the timelines I could find on various sites, the city was not sent to avernus until 1494. However the Baldur's Gate 3 time frame is 1492. So unless the websites I found are wrong, which is entirely possible, we have even a discrepancy as to when these major forgotten realms events occur. Also, would Zevlor have really been allowed to be a hellrider?

Finally, let me clarify my suggestion. I do not want Larian to provide us with specific timelines and so forth. My suggestion, is that if I do dig in a little into the story I find that it is without confusing details or discrepancies. It would also be nice if there was at least some more clear definitions of when things occur. In other words if someone tells me that Halsin left a little while ago, that is not clear. I would like for them to tell me something more like he has been gone for almost a month now. That is something very simple and minor but it now gives me a better idea of the actual time frame that things are occurring in. When Alfira tells me that her mentor died during the gnoll attack, she could make a comment that it happened now over 2 months ago but it's still affects her deeply. Those are the kind of things I'm talking about. Minor additions to dialogue that give players a frame of reference of how long ago things happened.

GM4Him #790482 15/09/21 06:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
R
addict
Offline
addict
R
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I played the game again this morning looking at some of the details again, and I noticed that Zevlor is a hellrider exile. I also found records and documents that state that Elturel went to Avernus already and is now back and the tieflings were expelled because of extreme prejudice there.

So I looked up Elurel and hell riders and the whole backstory about the city. Timeline wise it doesn't line up either with the timeline that has been given in Baldur's Gate 3. According to the timelines I could find on various sites, the city was not sent to avernus until 1494. However the Baldur's Gate 3 time frame is 1492. So unless the websites I found are wrong, which is entirely possible, we have even a discrepancy as to when these major forgotten realms events occur. Also, would Zevlor have really been allowed to be a hellrider?

Finally, let me clarify my suggestion. I do not want Larian to provide us with specific timelines and so forth. My suggestion, is that if I do dig in a little into the story I find that it is without confusing details or discrepancies. It would also be nice if there was at least some more clear definitions of when things occur. In other words if someone tells me that Halsin left a little while ago, that is not clear. I would like for them to tell me something more like he has been gone for almost a month now. That is something very simple and minor but it now gives me a better idea of the actual time frame that things are occurring in. When Alfira tells me that her mentor died during the gnoll attack, she could make a comment that it happened now over 2 months ago but it's still affects her deeply. Those are the kind of things I'm talking about. Minor additions to dialogue that give players a frame of reference of how long ago things happened.

The date 1492 is the date confirmed by the author. In this case, everything is correct.

GM4Him #790483 15/09/21 06:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
Another discrepancy that was brought up, and after some thought, makes no sense to me. Minthara is thoroughly pleased with Sazza and tells the MC that Sazza has given her the exact location of the grove. However, Zevlor does say something about the grove having been attacked multiple times just recently.

If Minthara has no idea where the grove is, the the goblins obviously didn't find the grove and attack it. If they had, Sazza and the goblin captain in the secret tunnels wouldn't be all giddy about telling Minthara where the grove was located, as if no one has ever found it yet.

And if the grove HAS been attacked multiple times, who attacked it? Was it the gnolls? Was it intellect devourers? Was it True Souls? I thought the whole idea was that the grove was completely well hidden and the goblins couldn't find it. Right?

And, oh man, here again takes me back to the topic of character levels being very inappropriate, if Zevlor was a Hellrider, wouldn't he be a WHOLE lot tougher? The man fought against devils and demons in Avernus. When we encounter him, he should be single-handedly blasting the crap out of the goblins at the grove gate. Even assuming he's a low level Hellrider, he shouldn't be so weak. He should be at least Level 4 or 5. When our character was in Avernus fighting a few imps, how quickly did he/she level up to level 2? Zevlor would have been fighting imps and such for months or more in Avernus. You can't tell me he'd be some weakling Level 2 or Level 3 fighter mage person.

GM4Him #790484 15/09/21 06:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
Yeah, so let's talk about that. If 1492 is the correct date, and Elturel both descended into Avernus and is now back, which is stated in the game by multiple sources of books and logs, then Kreeg's deal with Zariel fifty years earlier would mean that Kreeg made his deal at least in 1443. However, almost every timeline I find says 1444 is when the events of the vampire High Rider occur and the deal is made with Zariel to create the Companion.

So are we changing timelines? Did the events of the Companion's appearance happen in 1442 or 1443 (1443 would only make sense if you count both 1443 and 1492 as part of the 50 years)?

See, these little details are just not adding up.

GM4Him #790487 15/09/21 06:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
R
addict
Offline
addict
R
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Yeah, so let's talk about that. If 1492 is the correct date, and Elturel both descended into Avernus and is now back, which is stated in the game by multiple sources of books and logs, then Kreeg's deal with Zariel fifty years earlier would mean that Kreeg made his deal at least in 1443. However, almost every timeline I find says 1444 is when the events of the vampire High Rider occur and the deal is made with Zariel to create the Companion.

So are we changing timelines? Did the events of the Companion's appearance happen in 1442 or 1443 (1443 would only make sense if you count both 1443 and 1492 as part of the 50 years)?

See, these little details are just not adding up.

This seems to be a general problem that the WotC has with dates.

GM4Him #790488 15/09/21 06:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Imagine situation ...
You send couple of Goblin Scouts to search for a Grove ... they find it ... they are all killed (or captured in Sazza case) ... therefore you send another group ...
>> There was attacks recently ... you still dont know where it is.

Another mystery solved. :3


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Imagine situation ...
You send couple of Goblin Scouts to search for a Grove ... they find it ... they are all killed (or captured in Sazza case) ... therefore you send another group ...
>> There was attacks recently ... you still dont know where it is.

Another mystery solved. :3

And you see that where exactly?

You see, you don't really know. You're just guessing. And that's my point. There are many details that are left for the player to just guess what they're talking about.

And based on your assumption, what you are suggesting would mean that the goblins were wiped out every time they found the Grove during every attack. Not one goblin was able to escape. So the tieflings have fought off the goblins from the top of the wall several times now, and not one goblin was able to get away. Is that what you're saying?

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5