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Short Rest needs a quick fade out/in and perhaps a shot of the party actually sitting down at their current location. It feels really unfinished as a quick-heal button you can press while the party is running.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Short Rest needs a quick fade out/in and perhaps a shot of the party actually sitting down at their current location. It feels really unfinished as a quick-heal button you can press while the party is running.
Short rests should also activate 1, maybe more, conversations with party members. There are many that don't require the party to be at base camp.

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Tried a new resting system in patch 6 and not impressed. I'll say again, in my opinion the system should look like this;

- For a short rest you spend some food and make it anywhere, just out of combat.

- Long rest available only in certain places on map(like fast travel points) and requires supplies. They must be like checkpoints(possibly even savepoint on ironman mode), so when you having passed some part of plot, there is an alert some sort that the "day is over" or "people are tired (as it was in the bg1\2)" next checkpoint unlocked and you can go to camp for resting, communicate with companions and the plot go forward(new dialog option unlocked etc).

If you want just restore spells and abilities, you can rest at the last open checkpoint\campplace or call it whatever you want.

Last edited by arion; 21/10/21 08:23 AM.
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Just replayed the Auntie Ethel section of the game - it seems like Larian has finally added in "area-based fast-travel/resting restrictions" - is this new to Patch 6? I.e. you can't fast travel nor rest now while you're in Auntie Ethel's lair. The mini-map has this red border around it to indicate it.

I love it.

It really added some serious tension to the moment because I suddenly knew I couldn't blast away endlessly with spells. I believe if someone really wanted to, they can still backtrack out of the lair and go rest. But I think that's okay because you don't want to soft-lock some players (in case they get stuck without enough resources). It's the same in old school and contemporary games (BG2, WoTR).

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Originally Posted by Topgoon
Just replayed the Auntie Ethel section of the game - it seems like Larian has finally added in "area-based fast-travel/resting restrictions" - is this new to Patch 6? I.e. you can't fast travel nor rest now while you're in Auntie Ethel's lair. The mini-map has this red border around it to indicate it.

I love it.

It really added some serious tension to the moment because I suddenly knew I couldn't blast away endlessly with spells. I believe if someone really wanted to, they can still backtrack out of the lair and go rest. But I think that's okay because you don't want to soft-lock some players (in case they get stuck without enough resources). It's the same in old school and contemporary games (BG2, WoTR).

I think it began in Patch 4. But I agree. They need to do it more often. Spider lair, goblin camp, etc.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by Topgoon
Just replayed the Auntie Ethel section of the game - it seems like Larian has finally added in "area-based fast-travel/resting restrictions" - is this new to Patch 6? I.e. you can't fast travel nor rest now while you're in Auntie Ethel's lair. The mini-map has this red border around it to indicate it.

I love it.

It really added some serious tension to the moment because I suddenly knew I couldn't blast away endlessly with spells. I believe if someone really wanted to, they can still backtrack out of the lair and go rest. But I think that's okay because you don't want to soft-lock some players (in case they get stuck without enough resources). It's the same in old school and contemporary games (BG2, WoTR).

I think it began in Patch 4. But I agree. They need to do it more often. Spider lair, goblin camp, etc.

If you are friendly with the goblins (you have not openly made the whole camp hostile), why not? For hostile places it makes definitely a sense, though.

Last edited by Scales & Fangs; 01/01/22 07:19 PM.
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It just irks me to no end we can't rest in actual suitable locations when we find them.

Contemplation Chamber in Grymforge.

It's secluded and secure with a door you can close. It has a campfire and even benches and bedrolls around it for gathering the party. It's a meaningful actual location compared to the weird empty non-areas we are forced to camp in. You have Sharran journals to read and long dead corpses to examine while camping. Most of all, you are still connected to the game world while you are there.

There are many places you find while exploring where you get the feeling "this would be a great place to rest in". So WHY do we have to teleport to an off-the-map non-location for camping??? It's weird, unnecessary and it completely disconnects you from the real game world. You don't know where you are, the place has no exits, it looks like the place you were in but it's not. It's nowhere.

And you know you are completely safe as only the player can enter this weird 100% safe pocket dimension. Why exactly do we want to lose all sense of danger while exploring and camping in dangerous places? This just seems like such a bad design choice in every way.

Just... why??

edit: and please, if the answer is "because we want to 100% control all shots for companion dialogue", it's definitely not worth it.

Last edited by 1varangian; 12/02/22 09:55 AM.
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+1

And Random Encounters... To add variety and that element of danger, because you're camping in a dangerous place.

But mostly what you said, even if no random encounters.

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Originally Posted by Ferros
The only thing this might impact is if you take a long rest in an unsafe area and the camp gets attacked, you would then have more followers under your control than normal, but I don't really think that's such a huge issue.
That could be dealt with by having the camp attack happen before you get to the actual 'safe' camp. After combat is resolved the safe camp with all members opens up.

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There are places in the game where a "safe camp" is logical.

1. Dank Crypt after you open the sealed door. Ability to close the sealed door behind you and make camp in the small hall/room just before the stairs. OR even make safe camp in the Dank Crypt itself below since nothing is moving/living down there.

2. The Grove.

3. Harper camp. On that high hill, it makes sense that you could have a "safe camp" with maybe a 1% chance of a random encounter while resting. Though why you'd need to rest there when the grove is so close, I don't know.

4. Owlbear cave after you've killed the owlbears. Again, why not rest at the grove, I don't know, but it could be a good safe camp because the smell would keep other intruders out.

5. Waukeen's Rest after you've helped save people.

6. Windmill in Moonhaven, top level, because you command an awesome view of the surroundings and could see enemies coming a mile away. So, maybe not 100% no random encounters, but a 3% chance of a random encounter or something similar.

7. Zhent camp.

8. Spaw's Grotto

9. Selunite Outpost in the Underdark

10. Arcane Tower in the Underdark

11. Philomeen's location in Grymforge

12. The forge area in Grymforge because no one knows how to get there

Places like these would make great safe camps or relative safe camps with very low chance of random encounters, if they were to implement random encounters.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
There are places in the game where a "safe camp" is logical.

1. Dank Crypt after you open the sealed door. Ability to close the sealed door behind you and make camp in the small hall/room just before the stairs. OR even make safe camp in the Dank Crypt itself below since nothing is moving/living down there.

2. The Grove.

3. Harper camp. On that high hill, it makes sense that you could have a "safe camp" with maybe a 1% chance of a random encounter while resting. Though why you'd need to rest there when the grove is so close, I don't know.

4. Owlbear cave after you've killed the owlbears. Again, why not rest at the grove, I don't know, but it could be a good safe camp because the smell would keep other intruders out.

5. Waukeen's Rest after you've helped save people.

6. Windmill in Moonhaven, top level, because you command an awesome view of the surroundings and could see enemies coming a mile away. So, maybe not 100% no random encounters, but a 3% chance of a random encounter or something similar.

7. Zhent camp.

8. Spaw's Grotto

9. Selunite Outpost in the Underdark

10. Arcane Tower in the Underdark

11. Philomeen's location in Grymforge

12. The forge area in Grymforge because no one knows how to get there

Places like these would make great safe camps or relative safe camps with very low chance of random encounters, if they were to implement random encounters.
Yep, and Blighted Village as an entire area is logical after you've cleared it. You have many houses there, shelter, fireplaces, even beds. And cellars that could be more safe than surface. Also if you rest there before you've cleared it -> perfect chance for goblins to come looking at night where the smoke is coming from. The world is alive and works in logical ways. IMMERSION !

Then there's the common sense aspect. It makes absolutely no sense that while in the Selunite Fortress, you would leave the fortress and make your way through the Underdark while the party is tired and vulnerable to your special campsite somewhere because you would rather rest there than in a closed fortress with magical wards. I can't believe Larian don't care about this kind of logic in their game world.

I would very much want to have to make the choice where to camp during my adventures. Clicking a button to teleport to a safe off-world area is such a boring and meaningless mechanic no matter how gorgeous the area design is. Even fast traveling back to the closest safe area would be better than fast traveling to your personal pocket dimension without needing powerful magic to do so. The rest mechanic in BG3 essentially means the player has free access to Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, a 7th level spell for safe resting. I would also like such spells to be meaningful later on. They separate Wizards from Sorcerers who can't afford to pick such niche spells in a very wizardly way, and make arcane casters cool in a unique way. And that includes excluding just anyone casting them from scrolls.

It's odd that the fireplaces in many places that seem suitable for Long Rest are actually named "Campfire". Those can be found in Blighted Village, Dank Crypt, Harper Camp and many other places. It's like they had a better resting system planned but decided to scrap it before EA.

Last edited by 1varangian; 13/02/22 02:10 PM.
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OMG, and what about camping in Moonhaven at night and suddenly get pounced on in a random encounter where spiders come up out of the well and find you and ambush you? Spider webs are EVERYWHERE in Moonhaven, so why the flip not? Allow even camping on the roof of one of the buildings and then surprise! Attack by spiders who crawl up there to get you... Maybe... Should RNG call for it.

Or bars... Giant bats... Or WHATEVER.

Or you're camping at that spot in the bog near the swamp docks where ettercaps supposedly attacked whoever was camping there. Bam! Random Encounter. Ettercaps return... Or zombies come out of the putrid waters...Or whatever attacks you now because it is a nasty, dangerous bog.

So, it's a risk you take. Do you hoof it back to the grove to rest, chancing encounters on the way, or do you risk sleeping in a dangerous bog?

Last edited by GM4Him; 13/02/22 03:25 PM.
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The more I play EA over the patches, the more puzzled I get about the fact that we have countless potential camping spots already existing on the world map.
They would make a "contextual" camping system à-la Solasta perfectly viable with minor adjustments, and it feels almost like part of the team was placing these specifically to make it a point with the rest of the production.

But Larian decided to go for these instanced pocket-dimension camps that are potentially a lot more work to be included in and that even with all the effort in the world to give us dozens of different ones will NEVER overcome that weird disconnect in immersion they will have over something that feels "naturally" integrated into the scenario.

Funnily enough I was thinking that a case where NOT having an instanced camp would be an issue would be that tiefling (lousy) celebration party. And then it hit me:
it doesn't really make any fucking sense that a whole caravan of wandering tieflings would leave the druid grove to come "celebrate" their victory at your improvised campfire in the wilds...

Last edited by Tuco; 19/02/22 03:56 PM.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
The more I play EA over the patches, the more puzzled I get about the fact that we have countless potential camping spots already existing on the world map.
They would make a "contextual" camping system à-la Solasta perfectly viable with minor adjustments, and it feels almost like part of the team was placing these specifically to make it a point with the rest of the production.

But Larian decided to go for these instanced pocket-dimension camps that are potentially a lot more work to be included in and that even with all the effort in the world to give us dozens of different ones will NEVER overcome that weird disconnect in immersion they will have over something that feels "naturally" integrated into the scenario.

Funnily enough I was thinking that a case where NOT having an instanced camp would be an issue would be that tiefling (lousy celebration party) party. And then it hit me:
it doesn't really make any fucking sense that a whole caravan of wandering tieflings would leave the druid grove to come "celebrate" their victory at your improvised campfire in the wilds...

OMG yes! Exactly.

In my fan fic, the celebration occurs IN the grove. Why? Because you SAVED the grove AND it's still the safest place in the entire EA. The center of the grove would make a great party zone complete with decorations, etc.

And even if you murder hobo everyone and help the goblins, that zone would make the perfect party locale because the goblins would be dancing on the corpses of their victims and smashing statues and graphiti ing everything.

I'm 100% with you. The mini camps make no sense, are not immersive, and camping zones would restrict Long rest spams at least a bit. But mostly, camping zones just make it feel more natural.

Last edited by GM4Him; 19/02/22 03:53 PM.
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Interestingly enough ANOTHER blatant advantage of a contextual camp system would be its almost implicit ability to address the "rest spam" issue, by pacing these camps at adequate distance from each other.
(and of course, while minorly inconvenient it would also be possible to backtrack to the previous camps, rather than being forced to push forward, for players that are just BAD at combat and don't want a hard limit to how much they can rest.


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Doubling back is boring to me, so I don’t like a design where I would need to double back.

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Originally Posted by Icelyn
Doubling back is boring to me, so I don’t like a design where I would need to double back.

Of course you don't. Did you really ever liked a single idea that made a game more compelling and limited convenient exploits?


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That's what fast travel is for. I mean actual fast travel features in other games, not Larian's convenience teleporters that only exist for the player somehow.

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The idea isn't even that one should constantly go back to the previous camp.
The idea is PRECISELY to make "going back to the previous camp" just inconvenient enough to DISCOURAGE it. while not locking the option out completely for (bad) players who will desperately need it.


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Even if Larian eliminated fast travel from non-camp locations when implementing contextual camps, you wouldn't be required to double back??? You can just push forward to the next camp, and again you'd be able to fast travel from camp to camp. (Presumably they'd also untie conversations from long rest locations, or at least prevent the skipping of conversations because a new one triggered.)

And if you're finding the game so hard that you're needing to backtrack to long rest, then that's easily solved by difficulty options.

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