Here I just copied the descriptions for the op, even though they've been published elsewhere and added to, gives the gist. I can picture how something like this could get a cinematic presentation that conveys a fair bit without taking up too much time.
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SELUNE Revered by witches (a few may worship her) and by all who navigate or must work at night, Selune is continually either growing to full glory or dying. Selune is linked to Mystra; children born under a full moon often exhibit magical ability. Lycanthropes who enjoy their condition (rare though they may be) usually come to worship Selune, for she governs their powers. Selune has been said to aid devout worshippers of her Mystery of the Night by sending aid to those lost by trails of “moondust†(small motes of light similar to Dancing Lights or tiny will-o’-the-wisps that produce moonlight where none would otherwise be, to give sight to someone engaged in a delicate task,-guide the way through treacherous ground or back to a known trail, and the like). The “nightstalk,†or solitary moonlit walk, is the occasion and ritual of worship to, and Commune with, Selune. Clerics of Selune seek and prize “drops fallen from the moon,†the offerings of the goddess, for with this precious substance they can make many potions and unguents.
SHAR This goddess is said to be darkly beautiful. She is often worshipped by those made bitter by the loss of a loved one; in her dark embrace all forget, and although they forever feel loss, they become used to such pain until they consider it the usual and natural state of existence. Shar battles continually with Selune, slaying her often (i.e., every new moon), and is worshipped (or paid lip service by) all surface-dwelling beings who dislike light. Those who make or take disguises worship Leira, but those who seek only to hide or bury something pay homage to Shar.
So I still don't understand why her worshippers would be so detested. Yeah ok the goddess is evil and wants to dominate/end everything... but so what? You have gods of war, light, crime, order, debauchery, love and so on, surely just because of the primal element of the god it doesn't mean they get outlawed right?
Unless these cultists somehow caused harm to other people then I would understand. In Halsin's notes where he talks about Shar's Dark Justiciars he is so horrified that he can't even put into words on a page.
On an unrelated note I actually quite enjoy going into a game blind and not knowing what to expect. It keeps everything surprising even more so than if I had previous knowledge. Anyway I think the best description I can give I get that Shar is bad but I still don't understand why and the first time I got the reveal of SH's big secret I found the whole exchange either an exaggeration on everyone.
Desperate people sacrificing their memories to be happy as an evil goddess preys on them? Thats just sad rather than repulsive. If they were stealing other peoples mind though I would totally understand. "Don't talk to Sharrans! They will steal your mind!"
Um... Sharrans torture people into worshipping Shar and butcher those who don't. Moonhaven, ya know, Blighted Village, was utterly destroyed by Sharrans. The survivors were dragged off and tortured to death.
I think that could be why people in Faerun detest them and want to kill them on the spot.
Um... Sharrans torture people into worshipping Shar and butcher those who don't. Moonhaven, ya know, Blighted Village, was utterly destroyed by Sharrans. The survivors were dragged off and tortured to death.
Oh they attack everybody? I understood the village and the Selunite Temple ruins as this ancient battlefield between Shar and Selune worshippers rather than Sharrans being homicidal maniacs everywhere all the time.
Shar herself is intrinsically opposed to light and warmth - her most prominent initial defining act was the rise of conflict between herself and Selune over whether warmth should be allowed to exist and permit life to arise in the realm-space. She would eternally blot out all light and warmth if she could, and thereby extinguish the life that she protested the creation of. This is a big part of what defines her.
I don't think Shar wants to end the universe. I'm not sure where that's coming from.
The following excerpt is from Faiths & Avatars ->
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Chauntea begged for warmth so that she could nurture life and living creatures upon the planets that were her body and limbs, and the two Sisters-Who-Were-One became divided, as for the first time they were of two minds. Silvery Selune contested with her dark sister over whether or not to bring further life to the worlds. During this great conflagration, the gods of war, disease, murder, and death, among others, were created from residues of the deific battle. At one point during the battle, Selune seized the advantage and reached across time and space to a land of eternal fire. Fighting the pain of the blaze, which burned her sorely, she broke off a fragment of that ever-living flame and ignited one of the heavenly bodies so that it burned in the sky and warmed Chauntea.
Incensed, Shar redoubled her attack on her injured twin and began to snuff out all light and heat throughout the crystal sphere. Again Selune gave of herself and tore the divine essence of magic from her body, flinging it desperately at her sister in defense of life in the sphere and nearly killing herself of the spiritual injury it caused her. A just-born being of raw magic tore through Shar, bonding to some of her divine magical energy and ripping it free of her, and reforming behind her as the goddess of magic, known now as Mystra, but then as Mystryl. Though Mystryl was composed of both light and dark magic, she favored her first mother Selune initially, allowing the silver goddess to win an uneasy truce with her more powerful, dark twin. Consumed by bitterness at her defeat, Shar vowed eternal revenge.
Essentially, she prefers an unending expanse of cold darkness bereft of life.
I don't think Shar wants to end the universe. I'm not sure where that's coming from.
The following excerpt is from Faiths & Avatars ->
Quote
Chauntea begged for warmth so that she could nurture life and living creatures upon the planets that were her body and limbs, and the two Sisters-Who-Were-One became divided, as for the first time they were of two minds. Silvery Selune contested with her dark sister over whether or not to bring further life to the worlds. During this great conflagration, the gods of war, disease, murder, and death, among others, were created from residues of the deific battle. At one point during the battle, Selune seized the advantage and reached across time and space to a land of eternal fire. Fighting the pain of the blaze, which burned her sorely, she broke off a fragment of that ever-living flame and ignited one of the heavenly bodies so that it burned in the sky and warmed Chauntea.
Incensed, Shar redoubled her attack on her injured twin and began to snuff out all light and heat throughout the crystal sphere. Again Selune gave of herself and tore the divine essence of magic from her body, flinging it desperately at her sister in defense of life in the sphere and nearly killing herself of the spiritual injury it caused her. A just-born being of raw magic tore through Shar, bonding to some of her divine magical energy and ripping it free of her, and reforming behind her as the goddess of magic, known now as Mystra, but then as Mystryl. Though Mystryl was composed of both light and dark magic, she favored her first mother Selune initially, allowing the silver goddess to win an uneasy truce with her more powerful, dark twin. Consumed by bitterness at her defeat, Shar vowed eternal revenge.
Essentially, she prefers an unending expanse of cold darkness bereft of life.
Okay, I can see where you're coming from.
At one point, it mentions they were conflicted about "whether or not to bring further life to the worlds." Does that mean there was already some life that Shar was okay with?
At one point, it mentions they were conflicted about "whether or not to bring further life to the worlds." Does that mean there was already some life that Shar was okay with?
I might be wrong, but I think that the life they were okay with was Chauntea (and possibly others).
Last edited by EliasIncarnation; 24/10/2111:18 AM.
I don't think Shar wants to end the universe. I'm not sure where that's coming from.
The following excerpt is from Faiths & Avatars ->
Quote
Chauntea begged for warmth so that she could nurture life and living creatures upon the planets that were her body and limbs, and the two Sisters-Who-Were-One became divided, as for the first time they were of two minds. Silvery Selune contested with her dark sister over whether or not to bring further life to the worlds. During this great conflagration, the gods of war, disease, murder, and death, among others, were created from residues of the deific battle. At one point during the battle, Selune seized the advantage and reached across time and space to a land of eternal fire. Fighting the pain of the blaze, which burned her sorely, she broke off a fragment of that ever-living flame and ignited one of the heavenly bodies so that it burned in the sky and warmed Chauntea.
Incensed, Shar redoubled her attack on her injured twin and began to snuff out all light and heat throughout the crystal sphere. Again Selune gave of herself and tore the divine essence of magic from her body, flinging it desperately at her sister in defense of life in the sphere and nearly killing herself of the spiritual injury it caused her. A just-born being of raw magic tore through Shar, bonding to some of her divine magical energy and ripping it free of her, and reforming behind her as the goddess of magic, known now as Mystra, but then as Mystryl. Though Mystryl was composed of both light and dark magic, she favored her first mother Selune initially, allowing the silver goddess to win an uneasy truce with her more powerful, dark twin. Consumed by bitterness at her defeat, Shar vowed eternal revenge.
Essentially, she prefers an unending expanse of cold darkness bereft of life.
Okay, I can see where you're coming from.
At one point, it mentions they were conflicted about "whether or not to bring further life to the worlds." Does that mean there was already some life that Shar was okay with?
Nice try, but...no. There was Ao (in the distance), Selune, Shar and then Chauntea (the first offspring between the sisters). Shar objected to the creation of anything after Chauntea; she was content to have their domain remain otherwise lifeless.
Nice try, but...no. There was Ao (in the distance), Selune, Shar and then Chauntea (the first offspring between between the sisters). Shar objected to the creation of anything after Chauntea; she was content to have their domain remain otherwise lifeless.
What do you mean "nice try?" I'm asking a question. Do you feel like you're winning a game and putting feathers in your cap? I'm not sure we're having the same conversation.
But since we're going down this path, I will point out that Shar not wanting all the light initially does not equate to Shar having an active and current goal to get rid of all the light now.
And if Shar does want to get rid of the stars because she prefers the dark, it doesn't mean she wants to get rid of life in other planes of existence.
Nice try, but...no. There was Ao (in the distance), Selune, Shar and then Chauntea (the first offspring between between the sisters). Shar objected to the creation of anything after Chauntea; she was content to have their domain remain otherwise lifeless.
What do you mean "nice try?" I'm asking a question. Do you feel like you're winning a game and putting feathers in your cap? I'm not sure we're having the same conversation.
But since we're going down this path, I will point out that Shar not wanting all the light initially does not equate to Shar having an active and current goal to get rid of all the light now.
And if Shar does want to get rid of the stars because she prefers the dark, it doesn't mean she wants to get rid of life in other planes of existence.
Unless I'm blanking on certain exceptions to the rule, pretty much all of the gods unique to the Realms are concerned with...the Realms. The fact that Shar went to war with her sibling over this disagreement demonstrated how violently opposed she was to the notion of bringing about more life. Finally, swearing eternal revenge on this matter is fairly self-explanatory; Shar may be more powerful than her sister, but Selune has a greater amount of allies on her side AND there are now additional gods that want to rule/care for Toril (and are therefore opposed to Shar's long-term goal of reducing the world to nothingness).
If Shar had the means, she would gladly seize the opportunity.
Nice try, but...no. There was Ao (in the distance), Selune, Shar and then Chauntea (the first offspring between between the sisters). Shar objected to the creation of anything after Chauntea; she was content to have their domain remain otherwise lifeless.
What do you mean "nice try?" I'm asking a question. Do you feel like you're winning a game and putting feathers in your cap? I'm not sure we're having the same conversation.
But since we're going down this path, I will point out that Shar not wanting all the light initially does not equate to Shar having an active and current goal to get rid of all the light now.
And if Shar does want to get rid of the stars because she prefers the dark, it doesn't mean she wants to get rid of life in other planes of existence.
Yes she does. Very much so and very clearly so. The entire Twilight War trilogy in FR novels was about the war she waged against Lathander and Selune to literally extinguish the entire Multiverse.
Yes she does. Very much so and very clearly so. The entire Twilight War trilogy in FR novels was about the war she waged against Lathander and Selune to literally extinguish the entire Multiverse.
Answer accepted. I stand 100% corrected. Thank you.
This whole thread so clearly shows the need for better presentation of lore in BG3. If players can reach (and finish) SH's reveal scene without realizing exactly what type of goddess Shar is, that's a problem. It takes away from the surprise SH shows when/if we accept her; but why should our character reject her if our current understanding of Shar is "a goddess who some people think may be evil and who is at war with another goddess."
This whole thread so clearly shows the need for better presentation of lore in BG3. If players can reach (and finish) SH's reveal scene without realizing exactly what type of goddess Shar is, that's a problem. It takes away from the surprise SH shows when/if we accept her; but why should our character reject her if our current understanding of Shar is "a goddess who some people think may be evil and who is at war with another goddess."
Yes. Exactly. Well said. Perfect summary of the issue. Thank you.
If players can reach (and finish) SH's reveal scene without realizing exactly what type of goddess Shar is, that's a problem.
I don't see why. No one would ever join Shar's cult if everyone had one view of the goddess beaten into their heads.
Seems to me that the game would play out perfectly fine if a player initially thought Shar is "a goddess who some people think may be evil and who is at war with another goddess." Then, as the game continues, more scenes develop and more information is revealed, and eventually, the player learns more and gets a better understanding.
Why does that progression break the game?
*
I think there are a lot of heavy-baggage opinions being casually thrown about. "Everyone *must* know this lore! That's the only way the story can progress!" Well, okay, but what if my character doesn't know the lore? What if my character is tricked into worshiping Shar? Is that suddenly a bad story? I don't think so.
Evil people would join. Of course without an alignment system, "a goddess who some people think may be evil and who is at war with another goddess" could describe every deity.
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