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OK. Fan theory time.

The Absolute IS Shar. By receiving the tadpole, all your memories of who you really were have been wiped from you. Same with the others, the origin characters. That's why you are all starting over as Level 1 and why there is literally no back story for the MC. Everything you and the origin characters think you know is lies. Just as Shadowheart THINKS she's actually a cleric of Shar, so Gale THINKS he was a lover of Mystra and so Lae'zel THINKS she was some super awesome githyanki warrior chick who should deserve a dragon of her own and a silver sword, and so Astarion THINKS he's a vampire spawn when really he's not, he's Cazador himself, and Wyll THINKS he's the Blade of Frontiers when the Blade of Frontiers is actually some other guy that is in some snippet of Wyll's memory.

Yes... everyone has lost their memories, and they have all had them rewritten. THAT is why no one questions Shadowheart. It's because deep down inside, somewhere deep in their psyche, the Absolute, Shar, doesn't want them to ask her. It is suppressed. This is also why no Religion rolls are made or information given about Shar to the PCs. It is because Shar is suppressing this knowledge as much as possible so that the MC and company will not divert from her intended course. All of it is Shar's doing, and so when you learn about Shadowheart's secret, whether you know anything about Shar or not as a player, it doesn't matter. It is unspecial to you because it is unspecial to your character because Shar WANTS it to be unspecial.

Mind blown!

And now, to break the fourth wall, ALL of us are in this same boat. We, the players, have had our memories erased by Shar. We once came from Faerun, but WE were captured by mind flayers and had our lives reset here in this world. Shar has taken our memories from us and rewritten our lives. We all THINK we are who we think we are, but the truth is, we're not. We ALL have mind flayer parasites in our heads consuming our true personalities and turning us into mind flayers. WE are all True Souls.

ūüĎĻ

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Originally Posted by Sozz
This might not be related, but how did you guys rationalize having Viconia in your party. We're not told much about Shar in that game except from Viconia herself, and while that game had little to do with Shar or Selune it is a similar dynamic to Shadowheart. Of course Vic was pretty different in BG:I to II

Also maybe the threads just gotten so long that the original point has already been dealt with but I thought that the issue was that currently the only way to get to the Shar reveal was through insight checks involving Shadowheart, when a valid way of doing it would be through a (currently absent) History or Religion check. But it seems the conversation now is more about how the game is rolling out it's world's exposition. With a bunch of straw-'new players' involved, a lot of the arguments about it seem to revolve around assumptions around what is and isn't common knowledge in the Baldur's Gate area about Shar and her followers trappings. We currently do get quite a bit of exposition around primarily the Dark Justiciar with seemly a great deal more to come from Moonrise Towers, considering the importance of the Weapon and it's interest to all parties, Shar included, I think it's reasonable to assume that a great deal of exposition will be given to us around her and Selune as the game progresses.

I guess what I'm saying is, complaining about how the exposition is rolled out isn't totally warranted. I would have liked a prologue for better insight into our character, but I think expecting a game to stop, bring everyone up to speed on hundreds of years of FR lore, when they could and should 'show' us instead is fine.

Also consider that we're still getting more scenes and dialogues added to the EA, some of this might be premature too.

Nah. See. That's where the misunderstanding has come in. The original poster is a new player to Forgotten Realms, and he/she was just saying that they were totally confused when Shadowheart revealed that she was a Sharran cleric. They didn't know how to respond because there was no basic background given at all as to who Shar was and why he/she should even care.

So the suggestion was that Larian should provide at least some basic knowledge of who Shar is so that new players who don't know FR lore aren't totally like, "Shar who?" when Shadowheart reveals to them that she's a cleric of Shar.

Some argued, "It's in the books. Read the books, Fool!"

But the reply was, "I'm not going to read all those dang books just to learn basic story plot information. Books are for lore junkies. They shouldn't house major plot points and such."

And it escalated from there into all sorts of crazy things.

The bottom line is, there are plenty of places along the way that Larian could throw in a sentence or two for new players to let them know who Shar is and why they should care. We're not asking for any expositions or huge cutscenes going over the history of Shar and Selune (though I think someone brought up that suggestion somewhere in the thread). Most are simply looking for a Religion check somewhere along the way, even if it's during the BIG REVEAL, and if you pass you, the player, get to learn stuff about Shar but if you fail you are in the dark; and your character dialogue options should reflect your character's success or fail roll. If they don't know Shar, they might say, "Yeah. And? Who's Shar anyway?" If they succeed, they might say, "You are a cleric of Shar? Witch!" or "Yeah, and? I could care less" or even, "I've known the whole time, Shadowheart. I could care less who you serve. You're one of us regardless." And then maybe even gain some relationship points for it.

Either way, the main point of the entire thread is literally that a new player wanted more information given to them by Larian through dialogue or something just to give them some idea who Shar is. That's it. That's all they, the OP, originally asked for. He/she didn't even ask for the dice roll thing.

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Originally Posted by Sozz
I guess what I'm saying is, complaining about how the exposition is rolled out isn't totally warranted. I would have liked a prologue for better insight into our character, but I think expecting a game to stop, bring everyone up to speed on hundreds of years of FR lore, when they could and should 'show' us instead is fine.

One sentence (two, at most).

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I like some of this theory, I think there is a good argument to be made that Shar or Selune is the Absolute in collusion with the Illithids, but then you get to Wyl who has a number of people to corroborate his backstory (including a Baldurian player). It'd be very interesting if select memories were being suppressed by dream-entity in order to make our investigation harder, or better yet to lead our investigation towards being captured again.

I think there is ample material in the game to tell you who Shar is, mostly from Shadowheart, and I also think there is going to be much more on the way.

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
Um, what? All you know, and all anyone knows, at the beginning of Oblivion is that the Emperor got axed. The Emperor, voice acted by Patrick Stewart, whom you met and talked to as to give weight and meaning to the world shattering event that by itself would have meant nothing to any new player. You learn about Mehrunes Dagon way later on, and the game eases you into that too. You're not just dropped into some random inn, given a quest and asked to read on some random book about some God you know nothing about, because that would suck.

Except that that's not exactly true, right? We not only know the King got whacked, we see who did it, and they're trying to whack us too. Subtext: We are drawn into a world shattering event, from people that we know nothing about. Nowhere did Oblivion pause the game and explain who the Mythic Dawn worships. I may be misremembering the name of the cult. What I am not misremembering is that they were worshippers of Mehrunes Dagon, and, as you point out, a new player would have no idea what that means, or who it is, and we don't get that information until much later.

So if a new player starting in Oblivion had gone to the forums complaining that they didn't understand why this cult they know nothing about was trying to kill them, what would the response be? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it would be a lot different than what we're getting here, right?

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Um, what? All you know, and all anyone knows, at the beginning of Oblivion is that the Emperor got axed. The Emperor, voice acted by Patrick Stewart, whom you met and talked to as to give weight and meaning to the world shattering event that by itself would have meant nothing to any new player. You learn about Mehrunes Dagon way later on, and the game eases you into that too. You're not just dropped into some random inn, given a quest and asked to read on some random book about some God you know nothing about, because that would suck.

Except that that's not exactly true, right? We not only know the King got whacked, we see who did it, and they're trying to whack us too. Subtext: We are drawn into a world shattering event, from people that we know nothing about. Nowhere did Oblivion pause the game and explain who the Mythic Dawn worships. I may be misremembering the name of the cult. What I am not misremembering is that they were worshippers of Mehrunes Dagon, and, as you point out, a new player would have no idea what that means, or who it is, and we don't get that information until much later.

So if a new player starting in Oblivion had gone to the forums complaining that they didn't understand why this cult they know nothing about was trying to kill them, what would the response be? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it would be a lot different than what we're getting here, right?

The trick here is that you as the player aren't *supposed* to know who they are at that point, and we don't need to know either. Like you said, we do get that information, just later on. I can't completely remember the context of when you learn about him, but I don't think that learning specifically who they worship is meant to be a big twist. If I recall correctly, it doesn't strictly matter who exactly they worship. All the player needs to know is that he's a world-ending threat. All the other detail about who he is in the context of the world we exist in. The why of it doesn't really matter because, knowing he wants to destroy the world is enough of a reason to oppose him. But in the case of BG3, it really does matter that we know who Shar is in the context of the world because otherwise we don't have any reason to care about what Shadowheart, our companion and a major secondary character, is telling us. If the new Oblivion player went to the forums, the answer to their complaint would be "wait, you'll get that info later." Maybe they could read books and figure it out earlier based on hints and context, but that's not going to fundamentally change their experience of the story. In this case however, the difference between an emotionally sattisfying moment and a confusing one is whether or not you read and noted the importance of a couple random books that might well have just been flavor, like most other books in the game are.

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Um, what? All you know, and all anyone knows, at the beginning of Oblivion is that the Emperor got axed. The Emperor, voice acted by Patrick Stewart, whom you met and talked to as to give weight and meaning to the world shattering event that by itself would have meant nothing to any new player. You learn about Mehrunes Dagon way later on, and the game eases you into that too. You're not just dropped into some random inn, given a quest and asked to read on some random book about some God you know nothing about, because that would suck.

Except that that's not exactly true, right? We not only know the King got whacked, we see who did it, and they're trying to whack us too. Subtext: We are drawn into a world shattering event, from people that we know nothing about. Nowhere did Oblivion pause the game and explain who the Mythic Dawn worships. I may be misremembering the name of the cult. What I am not misremembering is that they were worshippers of Mehrunes Dagon, and, as you point out, a new player would have no idea what that means, or who it is, and we don't get that information until much later.

So if a new player starting in Oblivion had gone to the forums complaining that they didn't understand why this cult they know nothing about was trying to kill them, what would the response be? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it would be a lot different than what we're getting here, right?

That they're trying to kill them because they killed the Emperor, and the Emperor gave them 'the amulet of Kings'? think That's the hook, my dude, and by that point you need no more than that information for the story to make sense and move forward. The Emperor died infront of you to mysterious assassins serving a Prince of Darkness, and if you wanna learn more/avenge him/whatever you gotta bring the thingy to the place. Because he told you to do so, kingly as fuck, before dying.

Like, that's how any decent narrative works. Tell you what you need to know, when you need to know it. And in this here case, the game needs to tell you about Shar before it asks you what's your opinion of her. It's pretty clear cut.

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Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Um, what? All you know, and all anyone knows, at the beginning of Oblivion is that the Emperor got axed. The Emperor, voice acted by Patrick Stewart, whom you met and talked to as to give weight and meaning to the world shattering event that by itself would have meant nothing to any new player. You learn about Mehrunes Dagon way later on, and the game eases you into that too. You're not just dropped into some random inn, given a quest and asked to read on some random book about some God you know nothing about, because that would suck.

Except that that's not exactly true, right? We not only know the King got whacked, we see who did it, and they're trying to whack us too. Subtext: We are drawn into a world shattering event, from people that we know nothing about. Nowhere did Oblivion pause the game and explain who the Mythic Dawn worships. I may be misremembering the name of the cult. What I am not misremembering is that they were worshippers of Mehrunes Dagon, and, as you point out, a new player would have no idea what that means, or who it is, and we don't get that information until much later.

So if a new player starting in Oblivion had gone to the forums complaining that they didn't understand why this cult they know nothing about was trying to kill them, what would the response be? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it would be a lot different than what we're getting here, right?

That they're trying to kill them because they killed the Emperor, and the Emperor gave them 'the amulet of Kings'? think That's the hook, my dude, and by that point you need no more than that information for the story to make sense and move forward. The Emperor died infront of you to mysterious assassins serving a Prince of Darkness, and if you wanna learn more/avenge him/whatever you gotta bring the thingy to the place. Because he told you to do so, kingly as fuck, before dying.

Like, that's how any decent narrative works. Tell you what you need to know, when you need to know it. And in this here case, the game needs to tell you about Shar before it asks you what's your opinion of her. It's pretty clear cut.

I think Robert's brain is incapable of differentiating between information you need for the story to function for an audience versus information that isn't necessary for the audience to follow the story.

Did we need to know all oblivion gods to understand oblivion's intro? Nope. Who the assassins are? Nope. Where Cyrodil is or what is so special about the emperor? Nope.
It was pretty clear cut for what the player needed to do.
Survive and follow through the emperor's request. The story doesn't require the player to know everything.

The same is true about the Witcher 3.
Do I need to know what happened in the previous 2 games? No.
Do I need to know what happened in the books? No.
Do I need to know all the geopolitics? No.

I am a white haired cat eyed man who kills monsters. Is searching for his love interest and finds clues in the local village.
There is a war happening with southern black and gold clad germans-like people kicking red and white clad eastern european like country in some nearby village.
It just isn't necessary for me to know more and as the game progresses everyhing will be explained as it was necessary for me and other viewers to get context.

The problem with Shar is there is no context.
if the game and story setting was simpler with angels vs demons and Shadowheart being a demon worshipper that would make require less explanation because presumebly for the first 30 minutes I saw demons being evil and whoever that associates with them is not a cool person to hang out with.
But obviously that isn't the case here.

What is interesting is that this game is CONSTANTLY narrating things a denizen of Fearun would know anyway. So why not give a narration about Shar? It just doesn't make sense especially considering how integral Shar seems to be in the story.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
OK. Fan theory time.

The Absolute IS Shar.

Interesting theory, though I think the Absolute is more likely to be the Chained Oblivion - pretending to be something else enticing is its primary MO.

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Originally Posted by Sozz
I like some of this theory, I think there is a good argument to be made that Shar or Selune is the Absolute in collusion with the Illithids, but then you get to Wyl who has a number of people to corroborate his backstory (including a Baldurian player). It'd be very interesting if select memories were being suppressed by dream-entity in order to make our investigation harder, or better yet to lead our investigation towards being captured again.

I think there is ample material in the game to tell you who Shar is, mostly from Shadowheart, and I also think there is going to be much more on the way.

Yes. I think there will be plenty of material to tell us who she is in the game. The point of this post, however, is that the game needs a very basic description of who these goddesses are prior to Shadow hearts reveal. It's not about whether they're actually going to tell you who these goddesses are at some point. It is simply about the player being able to learn that information via a dice roll or a cutscene before Shadow heart tells them her Secret. That way, they can respond in the more intelligent manner to her reveal.

By the way, I was only joking about the fan theory. My real fan theory is that the absolute is it actually the main villain in throne of bhaal. ūüėģ. Raised back to life after the second sundering.

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When given two ridiculous choices, choose the most ridiculous. What was the name of the monk Bhaalspawn, Balthazar? Or do you mean Melisandre or whatever her name was. I guess that makes some sense, it might also help work in the Hell angle. Throne of Bhaal was a bit forgettable for me.

As for Shar and her reveal, I think her reveal can be the SH reveal. It could be better done, everything can (especially in an EA), but in a game where every scene has to go through a rubric of what kind of character you've decided to roll, you have to make a game that works well with both characters who have expertise in the religious realm and ones who were medieval peasants before being abducted by Mind-Flayers.

Not knowing things about the world your in isn't a handicap, being forced to make decisions based upon a presupposed information is, and I don't think we've reached that point.

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Um, what? All you know, and all anyone knows, at the beginning of Oblivion is that the Emperor got axed. The Emperor, voice acted by Patrick Stewart, whom you met and talked to as to give weight and meaning to the world shattering event that by itself would have meant nothing to any new player. You learn about Mehrunes Dagon way later on, and the game eases you into that too. You're not just dropped into some random inn, given a quest and asked to read on some random book about some God you know nothing about, because that would suck.

Except that that's not exactly true, right? We not only know the King got whacked, we see who did it, and they're trying to whack us too. Subtext: We are drawn into a world shattering event, from people that we know nothing about. Nowhere did Oblivion pause the game and explain who the Mythic Dawn worships. I may be misremembering the name of the cult. What I am not misremembering is that they were worshippers of Mehrunes Dagon, and, as you point out, a new player would have no idea what that means, or who it is, and we don't get that information until much later.

So if a new player starting in Oblivion had gone to the forums complaining that they didn't understand why this cult they know nothing about was trying to kill them, what would the response be? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it would be a lot different than what we're getting here, right?

Mystery is good, but asking players to make important decisions before they know more isn't really good.
It's as bad as games where the player chooses a dialogue option that seems peaceful only to have their character start yelling at someone (was it Mass Effect that did that?).

As for Oblivion, the player isn't given a companion who is part of the Mythic Dawn, and it's pretty obvious that the Mythic Dawn is evil, since they're the ones who are opening gates to the Deadlands everywhere.

In Baldur's Gate III, the player doesn't know any followers of Shar besides Shadowheart, and there's nothing that would point to Shar being evil, even though the player's character seems to know that, considering the dialogue options.

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i find it hard to grasp how we're comparing Oblivion and Shadow Heart's big reveal that she's a worshipper of Shar. Of course you didn't know anything about what was going on in Oblivion, that was the whole mystery. You slowly go things revealed as you went along. All you knew at the beginning was that you were special somehow. With SH's reveal, you work and work for this big secret and then "i follow Shar". Oh. No really SH, what's the actual big secret?

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Originally Posted by Eddiar
I think Robert's brain is incapable of differentiating between information you need for the story to function for an audience versus information that isn't necessary for the audience to follow the story.

Did we need to know all oblivion gods to understand oblivion's intro? Nope. Who the assassins are? Nope. Where Cyrodil is or what is so special about the emperor? Nope.
It was pretty clear cut for what the player needed to do.
Survive and follow through the emperor's request. The story doesn't require the player to know everything.

The same is true about the Witcher 3.
Do I need to know what happened in the previous 2 games? No.
Do I need to know what happened in the books? No.
Do I need to know all the geopolitics? No.

I am a white haired cat eyed man who kills monsters. Is searching for his love interest and finds clues in the local village.
There is a war happening with southern black and gold clad germans-like people kicking red and white clad eastern european like country in some nearby village.
It just isn't necessary for me to know more and as the game progresses everyhing will be explained as it was necessary for me and other viewers to get context.

The problem with Shar is there is no context.
if the game and story setting was simpler with angels vs demons and Shadowheart being a demon worshipper that would make require less explanation because presumebly for the first 30 minutes I saw demons being evil and whoever that associates with them is not a cool person to hang out with.
But obviously that isn't the case here.

What is interesting is that this game is CONSTANTLY narrating things a denizen of Fearun would know anyway. So why not give a narration about Shar? It just doesn't make sense especially considering how integral Shar seems to be in the story.

This is a very good post. Well stated.

Also…I read every book I find in game (I enjoy doing so) and have a decent memory. I also dislike long exposition dumps, and do not want that in the game at all. It just so happens that I did not read any books before the Shadowheart reveal that told me more than this: Shar was the Lady of Loss (and is mean to her loyal followers to teach them), and is the sister of Selune, and a dark deity.I kinda saw her as the Yin to the Yang type goddess. I did not know anything about her followers being murderers and consorting with terrible creatures to do bad things (as I learned from googling). I had no idea about how others in the world felt about her or her followers either…ie, the people of Faerun. My companions thought it no big deal.

Could it be that maybe…just maybe…folks on here that have known Forgotten Realms lore for years and years just *might*, a teensy bit, fail to notice how some things are really poorly explained in this game? Is it possible that the game lore seems easy to digest to some because those folks already know alot of it? And is it possible that people who happen *not* to know it might indeed be reading all those books and exploring every nook and cranny just like you, but are still missing vital context because it is just not there?

I know about Avernus and tiefling distrust. Why? A history skill role and a stroll thru the druid grove. I also know a bunch about harpers and druids. I know about vampires and githtankyi from convos with Asterion and Lazeal. I know about all kinds of other things about the world cause I explored it and paid attention. Hell..I know more about some random pain goddess than Shar in game. I even know about goblins and their god Maglubiyat.

Still had no idea how to respond to Shadowhearts reveal when it happened. It is fair feedback.

I don’t know why the newbs are getting accused of being too lazy to read. It may not be the case. And it is a small thing that is being asked for. (Go to the RtWP topic to see demands for substantial game changes)

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Originally Posted by Eddiar
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Um, what? All you know, and all anyone knows, at the beginning of Oblivion is that the Emperor got axed. The Emperor, voice acted by Patrick Stewart, whom you met and talked to as to give weight and meaning to the world shattering event that by itself would have meant nothing to any new player. You learn about Mehrunes Dagon way later on, and the game eases you into that too. You're not just dropped into some random inn, given a quest and asked to read on some random book about some God you know nothing about, because that would suck.

Except that that's not exactly true, right? We not only know the King got whacked, we see who did it, and they're trying to whack us too. Subtext: We are drawn into a world shattering event, from people that we know nothing about. Nowhere did Oblivion pause the game and explain who the Mythic Dawn worships. I may be misremembering the name of the cult. What I am not misremembering is that they were worshippers of Mehrunes Dagon, and, as you point out, a new player would have no idea what that means, or who it is, and we don't get that information until much later.

So if a new player starting in Oblivion had gone to the forums complaining that they didn't understand why this cult they know nothing about was trying to kill them, what would the response be? I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it would be a lot different than what we're getting here, right?

That they're trying to kill them because they killed the Emperor, and the Emperor gave them 'the amulet of Kings'? think That's the hook, my dude, and by that point you need no more than that information for the story to make sense and move forward. The Emperor died infront of you to mysterious assassins serving a Prince of Darkness, and if you wanna learn more/avenge him/whatever you gotta bring the thingy to the place. Because he told you to do so, kingly as fuck, before dying.

Like, that's how any decent narrative works. Tell you what you need to know, when you need to know it. And in this here case, the game needs to tell you about Shar before it asks you what's your opinion of her. It's pretty clear cut.

I think Robert's brain is incapable of differentiating between information you need for the story to function for an audience versus information that isn't necessary for the audience to follow the story.

Did we need to know all oblivion gods to understand oblivion's intro? Nope. Who the assassins are? Nope. Where Cyrodil is or what is so special about the emperor? Nope.
It was pretty clear cut for what the player needed to do.
Survive and follow through the emperor's request. The story doesn't require the player to know everything.

The same is true about the Witcher 3.
Do I need to know what happened in the previous 2 games? No.
Do I need to know what happened in the books? No.
Do I need to know all the geopolitics? No.

I am a white haired cat eyed man who kills monsters. Is searching for his love interest and finds clues in the local village.
There is a war happening with southern black and gold clad germans-like people kicking red and white clad eastern european like country in some nearby village.
It just isn't necessary for me to know more and as the game progresses everyhing will be explained as it was necessary for me and other viewers to get context.

The problem with Shar is there is no context.
if the game and story setting was simpler with angels vs demons and Shadowheart being a demon worshipper that would make require less explanation because presumebly for the first 30 minutes I saw demons being evil and whoever that associates with them is not a cool person to hang out with.
But obviously that isn't the case here.

What is interesting is that this game is CONSTANTLY narrating things a denizen of Fearun would know anyway. So why not give a narration about Shar? It just doesn't make sense especially considering how integral Shar seems to be in the story.

I really hope this is you trying to be ironic. "I found some information that said she wipes her followers minds, but I didn't understand that that could be a bad thing". I mean, that's the whole reason this thread exists, right?

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I believe the point was

Quote
So I am new to D&D lore and honestly I think one of the earliest scenes of the game really assumes way too much of my knowledge of the D&D gods.

When a certain character's religious beliefs are exposed our character seems to have either the "I don't care" response or the interesting "you lied to me!" and even more interesting response "Leave! I wont associate with Sharrans"

But the game doesn't explain what the big frigging deal is! How did this character lie? At no point did they say they worshiped another god or anyone explain to me what the big deal is. Why should I care? What's the down side? I mean compared to a Gith who will murder me if I sneeze funny or literal vampire. Who cares?

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
I believe the point was

Quote
So I am new to D&D lore and honestly I think one of the earliest scenes of the game really assumes way too much of my knowledge of the D&D gods.

When a certain character's religious beliefs are exposed our character seems to have either the "I don't care" response or the interesting "you lied to me!" and even more interesting response "Leave! I wont associate with Sharrans"

But the game doesn't explain what the big frigging deal is! How did this character lie? At no point did they say they worshiped another god or anyone explain to me what the big deal is. Why should I care? What's the down side? I mean compared to a Gith who will murder me if I sneeze funny or literal vampire. Who cares?

we already established the guy has a tough time understanding the written word.

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Please try to keep it civil folks... if your comment is solely directed at mocking someone else, consider how valuable it is to the conversation, and maybe don't post it.

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Originally Posted by Try2Handing
Originally Posted by Innateagle
Having not played DoS2 in its entirety, i gotta wonder if it's just how Larian does things or if it's a byproduct of trying to make this game feel as big as its franchise, quote unquote fill the shoes (which is ironic, considering the biggest takeaway from any astounding Bioware game is that the first enemy should always be rats or the like, so that what comes later on can truly awe you).
Very much the same thing in DOS2. Essentially, if you don't get to converse with gods or some similar "greater power beings" on a daily basis by the end of the first third of the game, then the game is not worth playing.

It's the same issue with Pathfinder WotR, tbh. The game tries too hard to be... grandiose. Tries too hard to impress the player. Tries too hard to shower the player with as much "cool and awesomeness" as they can. A goddess just pops out of thin air and starts talking to you without any prior indication, then next moment a demon lord also shows up and joins the convo, and there you are chatting casually with a goddess and a demon lord at the same time. You can say "but they do have a reason to talk to you" - sure, that may not be wrong, but I simply don't find it convincing at all. It just makes me think wow this game is trying too hard to make me feel important.

Also, admittedly, I got the same feeling playing PoE: Deadfire. All the conventions with gods, and all the dialogue options that make you sound like a cheeky rebellious upstart so you may feel "wow look at me I'm talking to these gods like an equal". Ngl they made me wince.

I guess in this day and age everything just gotta go fast.

I agree with this soooooo much.

I adore the PoE-games to death, but I really wouldnt't argue how PoE:D really tries to make your character so next-level-special that it feels completely off at times. Same with DoS2 - I am seriously very fond of the setting and the game in general, but the entire "talking to your god-thing" on such occasions really makes me frown a bit. I personally do not play these kinds of games to have a character that wants to achieve godhood - I play it as a type of epic DnD session for one player. Being just a regular exploration story - or at least something more subtle like PoE1 - is more my cup of tea. I don't want to roleplay as an exploring searching for godlike powers - I want to roleplay as a regular explorer. (:

Anyways! That is an discussion for another topic - back to the issue at hand!

I do not believe (like many others) that the solution of "Who is Shar and why do I care?" lies in books. Books should be flavor, hints, Easter eggs and some advanced story for those who enjoy it - but not the very core lore with necessary game knowledge. It is much to unreliable in case a player completely misses the book (as many players are not the "I read everything I find!"-types).

Like many stated before me - who Shar is, is something a DM would explain to you if asked them - preferably BEFORE dramatic reveal moments. Larian has stated several times that they want to be the DM of our journey in BG3 and that they want to copy the PnP/TT feeling as far as possible in BG3.

Like Ragitsu said, we don't even need a "book" to understand the basics of Shar. A decent description of Shar that would be enough to cover the basic knowledge that most residents of Faêrun possess could easily be done in one sentence, or two (and so many people here have already made really good examples of such sentences). Personally I am in favor for having the narrator announce the basics whenever Shar is brought up for the first time - as the narrator is supposed to back the player with information that they should possess ingame, yet might not do so irl. Like a DM!


Hoot hoot, stranger! Fairly new to CRPGs, but I tried my best to provide some feedback regardless! <3 Read it here: My Open Letter to Larian
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Originally Posted by Eddiar
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
I believe the point was

Quote
So I am new to D&D lore and honestly I think one of the earliest scenes of the game really assumes way too much of my knowledge of the D&D gods.

When a certain character's religious beliefs are exposed our character seems to have either the "I don't care" response or the interesting "you lied to me!" and even more interesting response "Leave! I wont associate with Sharrans"

But the game doesn't explain what the big frigging deal is! How did this character lie? At no point did they say they worshiped another god or anyone explain to me what the big deal is. Why should I care? What's the down side? I mean compared to a Gith who will murder me if I sneeze funny or literal vampire. Who cares?

we already established the guy has a tough time understanding the written word.

Can't. Stop. Laughing.

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