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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
That's Gale's version of the story. I suspect he's lying / telling a half truth.

The game is treating Netherese Magic as synonymous with shadow magic but they're not identical. There's the Mystryl-controlled weave and the Shar-controlled shadow weave. If you are playing Pathfinder: Wrath the shadow weave is the force behind spells like shadow conjuration.

The shadow weave is the dark reflection of the weave and a cancer on it. Wherever the weave expands it eats away at the weave. It's part of Shar's centuries long campaign to kill Mystra and end all of existence. The more people using the shadow weave the more the cancer spreads and the weaker Mystra becomes . . .

Every time you use the shadow weave you distance yourself from the true weave and eventually you will be unable to cast spells using the weave. You are linked into the Shadow weave -- Shar then permanently removes 2 wisdom points which can only be restored by a Sharran cleric in exchange for a service to Shar.

Now the Shadow weave is potentially more powerful than the weave because Mystra reorganized the weave and cut off access to 10-12 level spells. It's not clear in the lore, but it's possible that the Shadow weave still allows access to 10 - 12 spells.

So you are Gale, an archmage *and* a chosen, there really isn't any place to move up. Even becoming the magister is a step down from chosen. Unless you explore the shadow weave . . .

Gale's 'orb' is acting like a shadow mythallar (shadow weave power plant). I think he went in search of it, found it, and thus fell into Shar's trap. This ended the relationship with Mystra -- he chose to connect himself to the shadow weave.

This would also explain the graphics on the gates -- the dark energy / dark flame effects looks shadow weavish.

I guessing if you play him as your MC you will have a choice to become a chosen of Shar and wield the power of a shadow mythallar or you will be able to get back into Mystra's good graces.


Ohhhhhhh

Oh my…

I really dig this theory.

It would be less heavy handed than “behold I am actually Karsus/Elminster/some other famous dude ”. It would also be tragic. And it would jive with the more selfish and potentially power hungry part of his personality. And it it is still wrapped up in his love affair with Mystra…and what seemed like very real emotion when he spoke of her.

It seems like something he might do. He is a wizard who thinks he can outsmart devils, after all. I could see him thinking he could tap into forbidden magic and get away with it by outsmarting it somehow. The hubris!!! I love it.

And it would give you a range to play with if you play as him.Do you embrace the shadow weave fully for power, or do you become a decent person but a less powerful mage. That range is definitely hinted at in his mirror options. It would also explain his tempered and almost cutesy response to shadowheart’s reveal. And even how he acts when he first meets her. Like a potential foot in the door with Shar if he needs it.

And the romance path? The angst could be epic!!!!!

But…how could we share the weave together? Would he still be able to access both weaves? Ie, with the shadoweave in him.

Maybe I am seeing them as more matter and antimatter… lol

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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
That's Gale's version of the story. I suspect he's lying / telling a half truth.

The game is treating Netherese Magic as synonymous with shadow magic but they're not identical. There's the Mystryl-controlled weave and the Shar-controlled shadow weave. If you are playing Pathfinder: Wrath the shadow weave is the force behind spells like shadow conjuration.

The shadow weave is the dark reflection of the weave and a cancer on it. Wherever the weave expands it eats away at the weave. It's part of Shar's centuries long campaign to kill Mystra and end all of existence. The more people using the shadow weave the more the cancer spreads and the weaker Mystra becomes . . .

Every time you use the shadow weave you distance yourself from the true weave and eventually you will be unable to cast spells using the weave. You are linked into the Shadow weave -- Shar then permanently removes 2 wisdom points which can only be restored by a Sharran cleric in exchange for a service to Shar.

Now the Shadow weave is potentially more powerful than the weave because Mystra reorganized the weave and cut off access to 10-12 level spells. It's not clear in the lore, but it's possible that the Shadow weave still allows access to 10 - 12 spells.

So you are Gale, an archmage *and* a chosen, there really isn't any place to move up. Even becoming the magister is a step down from chosen. Unless you explore the shadow weave . . .

Gale's 'orb' is acting like a shadow mythallar (shadow weave power plant). I think he went in search of it, found it, and thus fell into Shar's trap. This ended the relationship with Mystra -- he chose to connect himself to the shadow weave.

This would also explain the graphics on the gates -- the dark energy / dark flame effects looks shadow weavish.

I guessing if you play him as your MC you will have a choice to become a chosen of Shar and wield the power of a shadow mythallar or you will be able to get back into Mystra's good graces.

That's interesting. There is definitely something more going on there.

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Ok. I do think perhaps the "I'm really some big shot" probably isn't true for any of them.

Gale probably isn't Elminster
SH isn't Selune
Astarion isn't Cazador
Etc.

Trying really hard as I'm playing through to get the full vibe from everyone and to pick up on all the dialogue nuances.

Astarion truly does seem like he is telling the truth about most items; same with Gale, Wyll, SH, Lae.

I really do think the Gale Shadow Weave theory is a powerful one and likely more close to the truth.

As for Astarion, one guy on Reddit posted a translation about his scars on his back, saying it was very similar to Latin. In the game, it's Infernal. So he likely is/was a spawn of Cazador, as he says, for during the scar scene he seems genuinely unsure about the scars, and he seems to be processing the news that it's Infernal. Why would Cazador mark him up like that in the language of the hells?

SH seems like she could be a number of things, but a Sharran cleric is not one of them. I do wonder if someone's theory about her being one of the children of Moonhaven could be true. She's half-elf and could live longer, though she'd likely look older, or she could be resurrected or held in some stasis in the Astral Plane where you don't age.

Either way, as I'm replaying, it does seem like none of them are really outright lying to you about their backstories.

Besides, eventually we'll get to BE them. Right? So chances are they won't require some super big backstory to understand their main story I would think. Being Elminster or Selune would require too much explanation right at the beginning of their playthroughs.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ok. I do think perhaps the "I'm really some big shot" probably isn't true for any of them.

Gale probably isn't Elminster
SH isn't Selune
Astarion isn't Cazador
Etc.

Trying really hard as I'm playing through to get the full vibe from everyone and to pick up on all the dialogue nuances.

Astarion truly does seem like he is telling the truth about most items; same with Gale, Wyll, SH, Lae.

I really do think the Gale Shadow Weave theory is a powerful one and likely more close to the truth.

As for Astarion, one guy on Reddit posted a translation about his scars on his back, saying it was very similar to Latin. In the game, it's Infernal. So he likely is/was a spawn of Cazador, as he says, for during the scar scene he seems genuinely unsure about the scars, and he seems to be processing the news that it's Infernal. Why would Cazador mark him up like that in the language of the hells?

SH seems like she could be a number of things, but a Sharran cleric is not one of them. I do wonder if someone's theory about her being one of the children of Moonhaven could be true. She's half-elf and could live longer, though she'd likely look older, or she could be resurrected or held in some stasis in the Astral Plane where you don't age.

Either way, as I'm replaying, it does seem like none of them are really outright lying to you about their backstories.

Besides, eventually we'll get to BE them. Right? So chances are they won't require some super big backstory to understand their main story I would think. Being Elminster or Selune would require too much explanation right at the beginning of their playthroughs.

Gale, Shadowheart and Astarion have the most interesting and mysterious background, in my opinion. Gale messed up somehow but I also agree in the Shadow Weave theory, that sounds interesting. Also, Gale keeps your character in need to know basis. It makes you wonder if he's hiding something. As for Shadowheart, I don't think she is Selune herself but she could be a brainwashed Selune follower, like a priestess or something. If so, why did this happen to her? Astarion's backstory is also interesting. I don't think Astarion is Cazador. I do however think the scar in his back is going to play a role in the game. We know it's Infernal and it seems to be a ritual of some king. Also, we learn from "speak with the dead" Galandal scene that he was not sent my Cazador but by someone named Maiden Fel. Who is she and why does she want Astarion so bad?

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If Astarion were Cazador, then the PC automatically would become a vampire spawn, If they let Astarion feed.

Maiden Fel sounds like one of the sisters of Ethel, If you take the classical witch coven: Ethel is the crone, Fel the maiden and then there is the mother.
Not sure If that make sense and what a hag would want with a vampire spawn, so probably just another crazy theory.


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Originally Posted by fylimar
If Astarion were Cazador, then the PC automatically would become a vampire spawn, If they let Astarion feed.

Maiden Fel sounds like one of the sisters of Ethel, If you take the classical witch coven: Ethel is the crone, Fel the maiden and then there is the mother.
Not sure If that make sense and what a hag would want with a vampire spawn, so probably just another crazy theory.

The theory of Maiden Fel wanting Astarion has to do with the infernal writing on his back. Someone on reddit deciphered the writing and it sounds like this "Hoyc inferiu non iurare per igneu, Naec virba loquor, Eoai mundo muoat." In English, that translates to "This soul swears no oath by fire, Nor words does he speak, In the realm of death." Some think that may be a piece to a ritual. This could be the reason why Maiden Fel wants Astarion, she told Galandrel that she wants Astarion unblemished. For what purpose we don't know.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by fylimar
If Astarion were Cazador, then the PC automatically would become a vampire spawn, If they let Astarion feed.

Maiden Fel sounds like one of the sisters of Ethel, If you take the classical witch coven: Ethel is the crone, Fel the maiden and then there is the mother.
Not sure If that make sense and what a hag would want with a vampire spawn, so probably just another crazy theory.

The theory of Maiden Fel wanting Astarion has to do with the infernal writing on his back. Someone on reddit deciphered the writing and it sounds like this "Hoyc inferiu non iurare per igneu, Naec virba loquor, Eoai mundo muoat." In English, that translates to "This soul swears no oath by fire, Nor words does he speak, In the realm of death." Some think that may be a piece to a ritual. This could be the reason why Maiden Fel wants Astarion, she told Galandrel that she wants Astarion unblemished. For what purpose we don't know.
It sounds creepy, but interesting. So Astarions skin is worth a lot to this Maiden, that's a bit like Fenris and his markings in DA2.


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Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by fylimar
If Astarion were Cazador, then the PC automatically would become a vampire spawn, If they let Astarion feed.

Maiden Fel sounds like one of the sisters of Ethel, If you take the classical witch coven: Ethel is the crone, Fel the maiden and then there is the mother.
Not sure If that make sense and what a hag would want with a vampire spawn, so probably just another crazy theory.

The theory of Maiden Fel wanting Astarion has to do with the infernal writing on his back. Someone on reddit deciphered the writing and it sounds like this "Hoyc inferiu non iurare per igneu, Naec virba loquor, Eoai mundo muoat." In English, that translates to "This soul swears no oath by fire, Nor words does he speak, In the realm of death." Some think that may be a piece to a ritual. This could be the reason why Maiden Fel wants Astarion, she told Galandrel that she wants Astarion unblemished. For what purpose we don't know.
It sounds creepy, but interesting. So Astarions skin is worth a lot to this Maiden, that's a bit like Fenris and his markings in DA2.

I know it sounds weird, lol. It is interesting to find out what could this Maiden Fel possibly want with the infernal writing in Astarion's back. Also, why did Cazador write/brand that on Astarion's back? According to Astarion, he's also not the only spawn with that writing on his back. He thinks there may be others.

Last edited by Lady Avyna; 06/11/21 03:28 PM.
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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by fylimar
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by fylimar
If Astarion were Cazador, then the PC automatically would become a vampire spawn, If they let Astarion feed.

Maiden Fel sounds like one of the sisters of Ethel, If you take the classical witch coven: Ethel is the crone, Fel the maiden and then there is the mother.
Not sure If that make sense and what a hag would want with a vampire spawn, so probably just another crazy theory.

The theory of Maiden Fel wanting Astarion has to do with the infernal writing on his back. Someone on reddit deciphered the writing and it sounds like this "Hoyc inferiu non iurare per igneu, Naec virba loquor, Eoai mundo muoat." In English, that translates to "This soul swears no oath by fire, Nor words does he speak, In the realm of death." Some think that may be a piece to a ritual. This could be the reason why Maiden Fel wants Astarion, she told Galandrel that she wants Astarion unblemished. For what purpose we don't know.
It sounds creepy, but interesting. So Astarions skin is worth a lot to this Maiden, that's a bit like Fenris and his markings in DA2.

I know it sounds weird, lol. It is interesting to find out what could this Maiden Fel possibly want with the infernal writing in Astarion's back. Also, why did Cazador write/brand that on Astarion's back? According to Astarion, he's also not the only spawn with that writing on his back. He thinks there may be others.
You know, this Maiden still could be a hag, I bet she would be interested in some infernal ritual . Not that I have any base for this theory, other than that I liked Ethel and want more hags.


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Originally Posted by fylimar
You know, this Maiden still could be a hag, I bet she would be interested in some infernal ritual . Not that I have any base for this theory, other than that I liked Ethel and want more hags.

Yes, that's the theory and that she may also be Auntie Ethel's sister. Also, there should be another hag to complete the three phases.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by fylimar
You know, this Maiden still could be a hag, I bet she would be interested in some infernal ritual . Not that I have any base for this theory, other than that I liked Ethel and want more hags.

Yes, that's the theory and that she may also be Auntie Ethel's sister. Also, there should be another hag to complete the three phases.
That's true. If her sisters are as fun as Ethel, Bring them on.


"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."

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