Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Queer Representation

Well is it possible to make companions react our queerness?
Like Shadowheart asking if we are Gay if we romanced a male companion. Because if the world isnt gonna react our partner choices I kinda dont think it's a representation. Like having a big important (please not fetishised lesbians to satisfy cis-straight men) character being a gay or smth.

I like how dos2 and bg3 are open for queer relationships but its just except the pronouns dialouges are all the same, gay relationship works different than straight relationships. I am not asking for whole new relationship experiance (actually I am but I know its impossible) but maybe having a conversation with Gale about how would he feel if we change positions? Asking about how does he feel having a company of man maybe? Extra lines just for the relationship types are very welcome and very representative. It's just whats the point of being queer if they are gonna react same to me wheather I am man or woman.

(If there is already, I havent experianced it for my 200 hours of EA experiance, which is also an issue I think.)

As far as I know companions are what is called "player sexual" - so they will be happy to sleep with PC regardless of their sex.

I know it, please read carefully.

I agree. It would've been nice at some point to state I am gay. It seems sort of a natural conversation and obvious thing that people would find out about the PC during travels.

It's been a while since this conversation has showed up. I agree it'd be nice if there was such dialogue.

E.g., Gale has had past romantic relations with men and women. Somewhere in his dialogue, perhaps only when/if we start flirting with him, he mentions this. Perhaps, if you're a man, he asks something like "hypothetically, do you think you could love a man?" to gauge your interest (obviously with better writing).

E.g., Wyll has only has past romantic relations with women. When we initiate romance with him, he says something like "he's never felt this way about a man."

A few short dialogue lines like these would help to flesh out the companions (more preferences = more characterized character) but still allow for a player of any sex to romance any companion. Preferences, not restrictions.

Only if they do it in a natural way of context, like for example, Shadowheart making a pass on my male Tav, and I then will be allowed to reject her with something like, "sorry girl but I'm more into guys, nothing personal". (personally, that could more than welcomed be followed with "btw, have you noticed if Gale is interested in anyone at the camp?" Gosh, that man is dreamy! Confident, intelligent(can be discussed) and just the right amount of chest hair)

Agreed, it should fit naturally into the storyline dialog, or be part of the character's background so it makes sense.

Dialogues that help ground the playersexuality of individual characters into a more in-universe representation of the sexuality and openness to the player by various degrees of the particular game being played would actually be really nice - as others mentioned, characters all remaining potentially romanacable by the PC, but having dialogue within their relationship texts to touch on it and give it a feeling of realism... it would be more than any other game I can think of has ever done, but it should still be possible. As well as being a grounding element for the companions, it would also serve as another chance for the player to define something about their character, which is always a good thing to add in where possible.

As it is, my character went to the party, and did romance Astarion. Astarion was the only one who flirted with the PC and thus seemed interested. Gale, I had at very high, but did not flirt at all.

Wyll strangely, announced he was quite jealous of me picking Astarion, however, Wyll has never indicated at all any interest, beyond the party event and has said nothing before or since to indicate any emotion or feelings whatsoever.

I just wonder, if being able to have a dialog about this might have triggered some earlier interactions to taylor the experience more.

I'm going to gently disagree, while keeping in mind I have limited experience with romantic relationships of any kind.


This is surprising to me. From what I can tell, the main difference between straight and gay couples is that the latter need to deal with societal perceptions while the former don't. Other than that, all the dynamics are the same. I'd posit that in a world where no sexual preference bore any stigma, conversations between gay and straight partners would be exactly the same, save for the pronouns.


This is confusing to me. Does sexual orientation have a point? Does it need a point?


I don't see how realism can be balanced between every charcter acknowledging that sexual peference is a thing and yet still being open to relations with Tav. If sexual preference is worth talking about with the NPCs, that means it has an in-world impact. The fact that no-one mentions it means it's not a big deal to anyone. Isn't that a world you'd want to live in?

I feel I've reached the limits of my expertise. My gut instinct is that Earth would be a better place if relationships worked more like they do in BG3 and DoS2. We already have enough clerics telling us how they feel about specific orientations.

+1

I like that they made it so low key. The classiest way of doing it.

It's not that simple, I'm afraid... the dynamics are different, and some of the roots of those differences do exist at an intrinsic level, no matter how much we try to adopt an unilateral outlook and behaviour.

That aside, yes, orientation and preference does have a point, because these things aren't simple binary switches; people are unique and individual, and the degrees to which they are open or willing to experience various things are a spectrum. The purpose of making characters playersexual, rather than just universally bisexual is so that different preferences and sexualities can be displayed, without actually hard restricting the player's hopes, and making it so that, by convenient coincidence, they are actually able to pursue the character they are taken with, with theirs.

More to the point - a world where everyone is open to sexual intimacy with everyone, regardless of anything else about them, as an enforced universal truth, simply feels fake, because that's just not what people are like... and no, personally, I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone was expected to be okay at a personal level with everything, because it would take something away from people, rather than giving it to them. Also, you'd have to start drawing lines in the sand anyway, because sexuality, sexual preference and what people like or are okay with goes well beyond 'boys and/or girls'.

Like it or not (and not liking it is fine!), but within the context of our media, characters being coded to be identified in certain ways is a thing - it's a way of signalling without being overt about it that all human societies all over the world have developed in different ways, quite independently of one another, because it is quite natural at a creature level for us to do this... and it has permeated forward through all of our higher-order and advanced civilisation trappings.

Taking it back to a basic level, for example, I am a very bisexual woman, and then some... but the dynamic I have with my male partners is different from the dynamic I have with my female partners, which is different again from the dynamic I have in multiple partner situations... they are intrinsically different experiences, and in any relationship where sexuality is a part of it, the intrinsically different experience and nature of that aspect causes intrinsic differences in the rest of the relationship naturally - and that's okay. It's a good thing. But it means that out there ,there are people who would not at all be interested in me - and that's okay too. In between that, there are people who might never consider themselves open to a certain type of intimacy, until a particular individual turns their head that way; they may not have physical attraction to that type of person normally at all, but this particular individual is someone that, because of everything else about them, they can see themselves with, and it tips that balance into a willingness to try with them what they would not with someone else. I've seen this before in fact.

So... when a character exists with an entirely heterosexual background, as far as is visible in the depiction and information available in game (Wyll - he might be anything, but in terms of just what we see directly in game, and the absolute information we have, and his general media coding beyond that... he's purely heterosexually-facing), when they are in fact open to romance from a same-sex character, it feels contrived and fake if there isn't some kind of lamp-shading to acknowledge that this is different from what we know and have seen so far; having a conversation about it not only adds depth and uniqueness of the character, but it gives the player chance to define more of their character tote game, which the game can potentially take on board and work with later.

I agree with Flooter's point that characters acknowledging their sexual orientation would imply an impact on gameplay. For example, if a character is straight, and your character is of the same gender, should they acknowledge the fact that they are straight even though every such character can still ultimately be romanced? Or should there be characters that are unbending in their sexual orientation, as many are in the real world? I think the latter makes much more sense, but would require substantial changes to romance in the gameplay (e.g. this character will never be attracted to you, this character is more easily attracted to you than others).

I personally like the current romance system, where straight, gay, bisexual, race, doesn't make a difference. You can explore that as your character wants without being limited in any way. And it just doesn't makes sense to me to keep romance options unlimited while claiming characters have preconceived sexual orientations. That is, it seems arrogant to be able to "flip" any and every character because our character is just so great.

As an aside, I personally disagree that straight and gay relationships are different. In my experience, its pretty much the same (outside of the bedroom). Anyways, I enjoy the current system where romance between any race and gender is just assumed to be "normal".

I tend to agree with Niara. If the characters are indeed interested in a same-sex relationship with Tav, to some extent, there should be some flag or indication of it earlier or in there backstory or dialog that might acknowledge it.

Honestly I don't think I care too much about this. I mean.. sure, it could be nice, but I also think it could be nice to see a world where this stuff does not matter at all. Refreshing. It would even be ideal. And I am saying this as a gay man myself. Would be nice if people didn't give a crap about these things at all.

I noticed with this playthrough there was some dialogue added with Astarion and Wyll that seemed to be flirting. So more to come in this regard possibly.

Also I would be remiss not to put the old locked Herosexual NPC thread in, it was very interesting to see everyone's pov there.

Ok, I can see what you mean. You touched on some fascinating topics, and though we don't see eye to eye on all of them, I agree with the endpoint. Thanks for taking the time to explain. To show my gratitude, I will spare you my thousand word essay about human cultures and lines in the sand.

this as a gay man myself. Would be nice if people didn't give a crap about these things at all.[/quote]

As a straight man I fully agree, enough is enough..Does it matter? The most Macho guy I've ever known is gay, he dragged me out of a situation I cannot say online as a fellow Marine and I survived because of him, one of the proudest moments of my life was being his best man at his wedding. Stop judging a book by it's cover and open your minds for gods sake it's 2021.

How about take a leaf from the witcher 3 and have the option to sit about like you would with a bunch of mates getting drunk and talking shit? Learn that your companions have actual personallites behind the constant neurotic rants? Then they could work some hints in about sexual preference (if necessary) organically during anecdotal chit chat? The forced nature of the "romance" in BG3 is totally inorganic and off putting to say the least, it almost feels like sexual assault.

Personally don't care for romance options considering the available options and implementation. It doesn't make sense for a Githyanki to be interested in sexual encounters with non-Gith considering they are born from eggs and are closer to insects than mammals. I don't even know if there is any lore on Githyanki mating rituals.I am happy for representation in all things as long as it is organic and leads you there gradually by choice not by design.

As you choose your "who do you desire" on character creation why not choose sexual preference also? That seems pretty representitive to me.