Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General [NEW] Updated pool - Two leveled spells in single turn

This doesn't just punish sorcerer and isn't a "single ruleset for Sorcerer, and second ruleset for everyone else." It's "a single rule for Quicken Spell, and universal spell rules for every caster including sorcerer."

Quicken is a much bigger problem because you can turn any spell into a bonus action. Which allows for double fireball and other powerful spell combinations without needing to spend 2 levels on Fighter (and thus be 2 levels behind on spell progression). This is especially bad in BG3 because of the lack of a long rest limit, so a sorcerer effectively has infinite sorcery points. Normal bonus action spells are much weaker then full-action spells, so it's less of a problem to allow that for all casters.

I'm assuming that Larian also fixes the game so Haste doesn't allow the casting of an additional spell, which is unbalanced because of the exact problem above.

Toggles for every little detail are a developer's way of saying "we have no clue, figure it out yourself". If they can't figure out how to make 4-5 difficulty settings to cover every major playstyle, I wouldn't trust them to get much else right either.

And I don't want to have to wade through a huge list of toggles before I start to play. I want to click on "CORE RULES" and start playing.

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There's too much debate on these forums whether or not some particular feature that could eventually fall under difficulty settings should be kept or added or brought back. Having even a rough sketch of difficulty settings would save a lot of trouble.

That's true, I didn't take that into consideration; I just used Fireball as example because it had been mentioned before.


Yes, I think so, because of how Haste was implemented as just giving you another action "point" to use. I can be wrong, of course, and we'll see how they do it when we see it.

And yeah, they should be able to attack different targets or even move between attacks if they want to. From the Player's Handbook, Chapter 9: Combat, Movement and Position, Breaking Up Your Move (just getting all the subtitles in there since I can't give you a page number ):



Depends entirely on whether you or I turn out to be correct about whether Extra Attack will be implemented as an extra attack or another action, I guess.


I would explain it like I just did. When a player tried to use another spell with another action type I would just have a red text notification appear that said they couldn't and why, just like how it does now when you can't move rocks and so on.

Honestly I think that would be a fair trade off over two turns as it would give your melee classes a purpose. Misty step, hunters mark and hex are class specific support spells even though they are "levelled" they do no damage or apply combat disadvantage. Hex and hunters mark have a strict set of rules apply to the effects. You must attack with something that requires a ranged saving throw or a weapon otherwise it doesn't do anything. Potential damage is a best case scenario and very rarely applies max damage.

That said your point is valid obviously.

I dont see difference between those.
My Sorcerer can cast only one damaging leveled spell ... but your Cleric can easily cast two leveled heals.
And you say that is balanced?
Let me laugh even harder (I feel like im using this meme really often lately )

I have read that previously, much more than once ... and i still believe it would be unfair to limit only single mechanic and keep everything else unchanged. :-/

It depends on wich level you are checking ...

Warlock that can use Hex and Scorching ray in single turn on level 3 gets 3x2d6+3x1d6 ... 54 damage ... what enemy survives this on level 3?
While he should only have 1d10+1d6 ... 16 ... still quite significant diference if you ask me. :-/

Sorcerer on the same level can with his Metamatic do 3x2d6 + 3x2d6 ... 72 damage ...
While he should only have 3x2d6 + 1d10 (presuming he will use Firebolt) ... 46 ...

And before anyone says it ... yes im aware that 72 is more than 54.
But compared to their regular (aka rule aplied) damage potential, Warlock can do more than three times as much ... while Sorcerer dont even do double.

That is different topic in my opinion.

That is the idea im defending for last year, any time difficiulties come in some topic ...
You either pick your Difficiulty profile ... and play.
Or you then roll down to toggle options and adjust it just they way you like. :P

Just like you can do in Pathfinder.

I don't really mind being able to cast 2 healing spells.
I don't think it has bad consequences considering their homebrew system (monster stats, skills and so on).

But the sorcerer is going to be OP when we'll be able to cast level 3+ spells.

Dnd's rule is coherent while BG3's actual rule (or lack of...) will have terrible consequences on the class balance.

Think a bit further than "I like to cast misty step + a damage spell" and keep in mind we only have level 2 spells. 2 fireball, 2 lightning bolt, 2 haste, 2 wall of fire,... This would be absolutely ridiculous.

Your poll really lack interresting options but if I have to choose : DnD, definitely.

That certainly changes things.
In that case you are probably right ... another action indeed seems like the only way to implement this. :-/


That could work ...
But i meaned before they do something ... i mean its not hard to simply let all unusable spell icons to become inactive with red writing teling "you allready used simmilar action" ...
But how to explain it in advance ...

I mean:
If you say: "Cant use same spell twice" ... i would like to cast Fireball + Shatter ... would it be possible?
If you say: "Cant use same type of spells" ... i would like to cast Fireball + Magic Missiles ... would it be possible?
If you say: "Cant use second damaging spell" ... i would like to cast Fireball + Sleep ... would it be possible?
Take it that im DnD lame, i have no idea what "types" of spells are there ...

There are no notable breaks in the balance of the spell system caused by allowing bonus action spells to be cast alongside action spells by the same character in the same turn, with the exception of one notable high level BA spell combination, and sorcerer's quicken spell. No, Rag, the cleric spending their spell slots to cast a healing word and a cure wounds in the same turn is not a balance problem; healing is, until much higher level a generally very ineffective use of actual combat turns

In Larian's game, the smoothest way to make the spellcasting fair and flexible is to leave us with the ability to cast with all parts of our turn economy, without an arbitrary limitation, and to simply rewrite Quicken itself to read:



This prevents the quicken spell power break, but still allows player to flexibly cast with their Actions and BAs elsewise - and also allows them to counterspell mid-turn if they need to, regardless of the situation.... which other folk's suggestions of other limitations ("Don't allow the casting of two levelled spells on a turn", etc.) tends to indelicately block out. So, this is the solution I'd like to push for on that score.

I was just about to write: Ugh ... okey you win, i'l add it there ...
But then i find out i cant edit that pool. :-/

So ... is there something im missing, or is that really impossible?

No. Your Sorcerer can cast two spells just as easily as my Cleric. The spells just naturally have to be a bonus action.

Your sorcerer can cast Misty Step (or Dragon's Breath or Magic Weapon) and Fireball; my Cleric can cast Spiritual Weapon (or Healing Word or Sanctuary) and Cure Wounds. But your cleric can't cast Heal and Cure Wounds because those are both actions, just like my sorcerer can't cast Fireball and Burning Hands.

Yes, just like Wizard can, just like Warlock can ...

I dunno, it just dont feels right i cant help it. :-/
I see what you mean, i understand it ... but i just see that diferently.

That's totally fair for you to feel like that about quicken. There's always been a huge debate on these forums as to the balance of the bonus action + leveled spell restriction.

But that's your personal feelings, and you wouldn't want your personal feelings to affect this poll right? I was just advocating for the option to be put on the poll. I'm not even sure I'd agree with it; I also don't like the idea of a Cleric/Bard being able to cast a leveled spell AND Healing Word, since Healing Word is kind of OP in 5e and encourages whack-a-mole gameplay.

I don't like the one spell restriction per turn. I also don't care that it creates any balance problems.
It is after all a single player game with OPTIONAL co-op.
Not everything has to be balanced in some way.

As I would change, when you cast a spell, you can only use spells of a lower level.
For example, if you use a level 3 spell, then you can only use level 2 spells and lower.
You can also make it accumulate.
It's not perfect, but it's better than wasting points on a cantrip (and much more fun).

I am perfectly fine with being able to have spellcasters can as many leveled spells as they can in a round, only if the mobs can do it too and the AI is optimized so they will do so as often as possible.

Just think about how much fun it will be to have your party hit with 2-4 fireballs constantly. So much fun being nuked for total party kills without being able to do anything!

And you win ... im willing to add it, but sadly Edit dont let me.
Tell me how and i do it.

//Edit: So i was asking The Composer if there is a way to edit a pool ... and there isnt any.
So we would have to start new pool. :-/

"Dip" is a common term for multiclassing where you grab only a few levels and go back to your original class.

In this case the dip is for two levels, to get eldritch blast and agonizing blast (and whatever you want for the other invocation).

Eldritch blast does indeed get more blasts when it scales. That is what makes it so strong with agonizing blast, because you get your charisma bonus added to each hit. If a level 5 character (3 sorc/2 war) casts it twice they get 4 beams (two for each cast) and each does 1D10+cha damage.

Dragon sorc also adds charisma to damage (provided the element matches their heritage) but with fire bolt (for instance) that just adds charisma once per cast, instead of once per beam. You get a lot more +cha with eldritch blast.

Hooray for ancient, barely functional forums! /s :P

Another option for Quicken is for it to cost spell level + 2 points.
2 points to quicken a cantrip (and be able to use your action to cast any spell, even level 9)
3 points to quicken a 1st level spell (and still able to use action to cast any spell)
4 points to quicken a 2nd level spell ("")
etc

I have no idea how balanced this implementation would actually be. But at the very least it'd be interesting, add decision making without limiting possibilities, and isn't as unbalanced as being able to cast 2 fireballs for 2 or 3 sorcery points.

I actualy think this us better for function ... editing pools would compromite results ...
But Composer had good idea for aolution i shall create other topic later today (when i get to computer writing on telefon is pain) and then ask him to move coments there so we can continue....

Anyway if you have any other idea for vote options niw is good time to twll me.

So ...
As many of you probably know i just recently started a pool, since i was curious about wich option would people prefer in matter to solving restriction of casting during single turn ... yet i was quite fast told that my pool miss another option some people would certainly prefer. :-/
And while i absolutely despise that option, and find it incredibly unfair towards Sorcerers ... i had to admit that they got a point ... my intention was to find what would people prefer, and so i should accept what would people prefer no matter how much i would personaly hate that option.

And since there is (for logical reasons) no way to edit pools ... i had to start another topic ...
I really hope nobody will this time tell me that some option is missing, since i would hate to start third topic.
(I shall write to Composer and ask for moving coments to this one, so we can continue any potential debate here)

There.
Now when pretalk is done ... lets get to topic itself.

Exact wording for rule is:

Meaning:
Once you cast any leveled spell (aka, not cantrip) that uses Bonus Action (that is actualy important part), you should no longer be able to cast another leveled spell using Action.
Note that this rule dont forbid casting by using second action, or reaction.

But many combination we probably use would no longer be possible:
Misty step + any non-cantrip spell
Hex + any non-cantrip spell
Healing Word + any non-cantrip spell
And (most importantly as it seems) ... Any non-cantrip spell alterned by Metamagic: Quickened Spell + any non-cantrip spell

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I apology once more for repeating the same question to you, but i have to admit that my first pool had skewed results, and therefore was practicaly useless.
This time i add option "other idea" so this would not repeat.

Thank you all for your patience and your votes.

So what ruleset would you preffer? single choice
	DnD rules followed ... forbid two spells using action and bonus action.
	DnD rules ignored ... allow it (aka change nothing, keep it as it is right now)
	Add toggle in difficiulty settings
	DnD rules followed for Sorcerers Metamagic only ... in other words: Bonus Action Spell + Action Spell = yes ... Quickened Spell + Action Spell = no.
	DnD rules ignored for Sorcerers Metamagic only ... in other words: Bonus Action Spell + Action Spell = no ... Quickened Spell + Action Spell = yes.
	Some other idea (please tell us!)
Votes accepted starting: 12/11/21 12:23 PM
View Results

Voted for allow it (as it is now).

As I wrote in the other thread, I love using Misty Step + a noncantrip spell or Healing Word + a noncantrip spell! So, I definitely wouldn’t want the rule added to all spells!

A toggle would be okay, too.

Having it just for metamagic is better than having it for everything, but I can’t see myself ever using metamagic points on quickened for a cantrip, so that would make quickened useless for me. Most of the objections that I saw had to do with fireball. A better option for me than excluding all spells from quickened would be to only exclude fireball from quickened but let other spells be used.