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Yes that basicaly means
Karlach, Minsc and Helia ... presuming they were not cut out for some reason?

Have you concidered allowing us to recruit them as other classes?
I mean if some of them is suppose to be Paladin (acording to datamining) ... why not let us recruit him as a Cleric? Just for now, as a placeholder.
If someone is supposed to be a Barbarian ... why not let us recrtuit him as a Fighter?

I mean dont get me wrong, we have amazing and interesting companions (and Shadowheart) ... but it would be great to have option to switch them a little more. :-/
If you choose evil playthrough you are basicaly stuck with 3 ppl. frown

+ As i mentioned please concider creating Origin character for each class ... that would imediatly give us (at least two) other companions to play with. :3

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 23/11/21 03:17 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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They did that in DOS2 did they not?

I really liked that since i could keep the character but change the class. I think we would need to keep closer to the original role, like you said, since some stories are closely tied to the some class features. Having Gale as a fighter would ruin his story a little. Wyll could be problematic since no other class i

know has a Demon Pact. Not even a Star Pact would work in this regard. You would have to untie Mizora from his class.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
we have amazing and interesting companions (and Shadowheart) ...

AHAHAHAHAHA!


I agree that it is problematic that many origin characters are tied to certain classes. For me, the issue is not necessarily tied to the companions but rather that the origin characters themselves are tied to classes if you play them as well (which I am just going to assume they are - otherwise I can't wait to ruin the game by playing a paladin SH or barbarian Gale smile ).

However, while I've argued many times that the lack of class fluidity in BG3 is a very good argument to not keep the party locked at 4 characters, I wouldn't argue to MAKE companions/origins class fluid as much as I would argue for ... Well, bigger party size. At least 5.

The thing is, in DOS universe I never felt like your class was that important. In any aspect, at all. You were all sorcerers regardless, and the "root" of your power was the same regardless of how it manifested and how it was channeled. In Forgotten Realms however, classes do not at all have the same origins of power which makes origin characters with open class choices feel... Weird at best, world-conflicting at worst.


Anyways - you specify that it should be something close to the original class, such as fighter/barbarian or paladin/cleric. I am going to openly admit that I am not well-versed enough to say whenever this would be a huge conflict (although my guess on the paladin/cleric one would be "probably"). Personally, I would argue for opening multi-classing entirely (at least for the main PC). And if not entirely for companions, then at least do it as PoE:D did it and have the options for 2 or 3 multi-class combinations for each companion.

I'll make some examples to illustrate my point (do note that the examples are not necessarily proper suggestions and the names are completely made up in the moment, so apologizes for any confusion): Shadowheart's base class is cleric. But, you could also choose to play her as a Nightwhisperer (cleric + warlock - think of Cipher in PoE), Shadow Bender (cleric + rogue) or Witch (cleric + druid).

... ... And, of course, if Larian intends on forcing each companion to have a singular class, then I would seriously hope that they'll at least make a companion out of each class. :|


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Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Having Gale as a fighter would ruin his story a little. Wyll could be problematic since no other class i know has a Demon Pact.
I litteraly never suggested this. laugh

I try to rephrase it ...
K*****h (name is in spoiler tag in OP) is one datamined companion ... she is supposed to be either Barbarian (acording to visual) or Paladin (acording to datamined tags) ... neither of those classes are in game > therefore we cannot get HER as a companion.
I suggest we get HER as a Fighter or Cleric for now AS A PLACEHOLDER, and change her class to either Paladin or Barbarian when that class will be prepared for us!


The point here is to make curently unplayable (bcs theyr class is not there yet) companions playable ...

NOT to allow allready playable companions to be anything, that is compeltely different story! :-/

//Edit:
Oh shit ... you too Dez? :-/
Damn i really wrote that so badly? laugh

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 23/11/21 04:26 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
//Edit:
Oh shit ... you too Dez? :-/
Damn i really wrote that so badly? laugh

frown
Originally Posted by Dez
Anyways - *you specify that it should be something close to the original class*, such as fighter/barbarian or paladin/cleric. I am going to openly admit that I am not well-versed enough to say whenever this would be a huge conflict (although my guess on the paladin/cleric one would be "probably"). Personally, I would argue for opening multi-classing entirely (at least for the main PC). And if not entirely for companions, then at least do it as PoE:D did it and have the options for 2 or 3 multi-class combinations for each companion.

Last edited by Dez; 23/11/21 04:43 PM.

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Choosing a class for your companions would force their writing to be generic and bland as it would have to account for all possibilities, so no.

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Im aware, but you were still using Shadowheart as example ... so it seemed to me like you are still focusing at that "allow companion to be different class" instead of intended "allow companions that are curently unaviable to be played as some close, but different class until they will be ready to full implementation ... and then simply change them to what they allways were supposed to be" smile

But if you wish to start topic in topic, why not ... as long we dont forget the original one. laugh
Originally Posted by Dez
I would argue for opening multi-classing entirely (at least for the main PC). And if not entirely for companions, then at least do it as PoE:D did it and have the options for 2 or 3 multi-class combinations for each companion.
As far as i know multiclassing is allready confrimmed ... so i dare to presume that someone in Larian is curently thinking about implementation.
I mean the concept is easy on paper ... but how to explain to completely new player that his character is level 5 while he can also be level 2 Cleric and level 3 Druid at same time. laugh

Another question is how present multiclassing so people dont get caught into seemingly OP traps that dont actualy works (like 1 level in Barbarian for Monk, to have double Unarmored Defense)

Originally Posted by Dez
... ... And, of course, if Larian intends on forcing each companion to have a singular class
I dont think they do that ...
We just get companions with their respective classes and what will happen afterwards, during their leveling will be completely up to us.

I wonder more about classes that pick their specific subclass on level 3 ...
I mean there is probably not much difference if Gale was studying Evocation or Necromancy ... or if Astarion will be Thief, or Assassin ...
But how about our Paladin companion? You cant quite create character fiting to Oathbreaker, and then allow it to become Oath of Devotion (and vice versa laugh )

Yes im aware it could mean that we would be able to play Wyll as 1lvl Warlock and 9 lvl Barbarian/Druid/Bard/somethingelse (potentialy) ... but in the end why the hells not? laugh

Originally Posted by Dez
I would seriously hope that they'll at least make a companion out of each class. :|
I hope for that anyway ...
So far the most interesting class is Monk for me, it would be shame to be forced to play Tav if you want this class. frown

Also it would seriously improve variability in party members ...
You know what i mean ... if you have Fighter only, there is not much to choose in question: who will be tanking? ... but if you have Fighter, Barbarian and Paladin to pick from ... well, that is compeltely different story. smile


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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The issue is the low number of companions, not their classes. I hope we won't be able to change them like in DoS.

But it's not Ragna's point. TBH, I don't really care.

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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Choosing a class for your companions would force their writing to be generic and bland as it would have to account for all possibilities, so no.
One more post like this and i go ask moderator to delete this topic and shall start over. laugh

Il try even different words:

Companion Karel ...
Is supposed to be Paladin ... we have no paladin ... therefore we have no Karel.

I suggest:
Make Karel Cleric FOR NOW ... we have no Paladin, but we do have cleric ... therefore we DO have Karel as a Cleric for now, just so we can play WITH KAREL ...
Later when we would have Paladin ... Karel will be changed to Paladin, as he is supposed to be ... therefore we WILL HAVE Karel as he is supposed to be.

Note that i NEVER EVER EVEN ONCE mentioned "us choosing anything" for Karel!!! -_-

//Edit:
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
The issue is the low number of companions, not their classes.
Exactly! Thank you laugh

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 23/11/21 05:18 PM.

I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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See what happens when people aren't short and concise and write directly what they mean. wink

Rag wants to play the with the companions to come, and don't wanna wait anymore.

He doesn't care if their dialogues would clash with some placeholder class than what they are supposed to be in the end game, he just want them now.

Last edited by PrivateRaccoon; 23/11/21 05:56 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by UnknownEvil
Having Gale as a fighter would ruin his story a little. Wyll could be problematic since no other class i know has a Demon Pact.
I litteraly never suggested this. laugh

I try to rephrase it ...
K*****h (name is in spoiler tag in OP) is one datamined companion ... she is supposed to be either Barbarian (acording to visual) or Paladin (acording to datamined tags) ... neither of those classes are in game > therefore we cannot get HER as a companion.
I suggest we get HER as a Fighter or Cleric for now AS A PLACEHOLDER, and change her class to either Paladin or Barbarian when that class will be prepared for us!


The point here is to make curently unplayable (bcs theyr class is not there yet) companions playable ...

NOT to allow allready playable companions to be anything, that is compeltely different story! :-/

//Edit:
Oh shit ... you too Dez? :-/
Damn i really wrote that so badly? laugh

OK,

that was a total misunderstanding from my side. I got you now.

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Once multiclassing is in, I don't think ability to change base class for a companion will be of utmost importance - one will still be able to vary things up between playthoughs, even if base class remains the same.

I also liked what PoE2 ended up doing: a limited selection of classes (and multiclasses in that case) that fit the particular character.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
I don't think ability to change base class for a companion will be of utmost importance
Come on now you do it for purpose. :-/

Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Rag wants to play the with the companions to come, and don't wanna wait anymore.
Well ... basicaly.
I dont mind waiting, i just thought it would be fine compromise ... even tho i have to admit it pisses me off that once you want to go through Evil route you practicaly loose up to two companions ... yet if you are good, everyone is complaining but stays with you loayal as a dogs. -_-

Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
He doesn't care if their dialogues would clash with some placeholder class than what they are supposed to be in the end game
What do you mean exactly? O_o

There is nothing holding character to have Paladin tag while being Fighter ... both systematicly (as Chubblot showed us in his videos) and lorevise, since there is multiclass. laugh

The only thing that will be missing would be combat abilities ...
They totally can get all [Paladin], [Barbarian] and [Bard] dialogue options they should have ... they probably will not have advantages where their classes should, but there is allways cost if you wish to play with placeholder. :-/


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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I long for new companions also, but I think I'd rather wait until they're right, like they're supposed to be in the narrative. As a paladin with paladin abilities, for example, assuming that is what Karlach is supposed to be.

In the meantime, I'd really like it if we could get some non-tadpole companions, like Sazza built as a rogue, or Guex just learning how to fight with a sword.

*

Another thing: I hate the way everyone in the party is the same level. I don't like sharing xp like that. I wish the ones who went out adventuring got experience, while the ones who stayed at camp didn't.

I'd be more than okay with having Gale at level two while Tav is level four and Lae'zel is level three.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
What do you mean exactly? O_o


The only thing that will be missing would be combat abilities ...

That was what I meant. Since we don't know how/if their dialogue will reflect their class yet there might be some clashes. Gale practically screams out that he is a wizard, but in the case of Wyll, his class is somewhat of a spoiler since he tries to hide the fact that he got a bond.

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Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Since we don't know how/if their dialogue will reflect their class yet there might be some clashes.
Thats the problem, i cant imagine any ...
I dunno if you watched Chubblots videos, but if you check this one ... you can see there that all that class do in most dialogues is create special options, wich dont really need any ability to be implemented.

I mean yes, im aware that there are some situations where our companion should as Barbarian have advantage for roll ... or some bonuses, like Jack of All Trades ...
I get it could potentialy feel "not as good as it should be" ... but then all i can say for that is that Rogue also dont have expertise right now and its working. laugh
I admit its not working the way it should and it would certainly be better if it would work as it should ... but im talking here abou temporary solutions nothing final. smile

Originally Posted by PrivateRaccoon
Gale practically screams out that he is a wizard, but in the case of Wyll, his class is somewhat of a spoiler since he tries to hide the fact that he got a bond.
That one is true ...
I mean it should be mentioned somehow that this class is actualy placeholder.

On the other hand, i cant quite imagine how could, or even why should anyone make secret with the fact that he is Paladin, Barbarian or Bard. laugh
Maybe Paladin of Shar (or some other Evil deity) would ... but since we were told by Swen that "good" companions was not yet implemented, im not sure if this would even be possibility.

On the other hand, if there is suppose to be some secret ...
And it would not be implemented ... it would be kept just fine. laugh


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
As far as i know multiclassing is allready confrimmed ...
That's amazing news! My brother is going to be so excited to hear that! laugh I must admit I have not paid much attention to the multi-class discussions as I ... Well, I usually don't multi-class. My first multi-class character was in PF:WotR. laugh

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
but how to explain to completely new player that his character is level 5 while he can also be level 2 Cleric and level 3 Druid at same time. laugh

That is probably not very difficult. You can always compare it to each class being a "talent tree" from other games. Imagine that you get to spend one point during a level up in each tree, so you can pick 2 points in Cleric and then 3 in Druid if you're level 5. I mean, I had no issue at all understanding the concept of the mechanic when I first got involved with CRPGs and DnD just a year ago. c: Although I am by no means able to create multi-class builds that are viable and such (like my brother who loves theory crafting multi-class builds), but I understand the concept and I am very happy for those who like that kind of stuff. laugh Like my brother!

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Another question is how present multiclassing so people dont get caught into seemingly OP traps that dont actualy works (like 1 level in Barbarian for Monk, to have double Unarmored Defense)

I personally believe it is a non-issue. :] Learning stuff like that is a part of learning how to use the multi-class. Trying different combos, reading up on it... It would be really sad to dumb it down so that people can make "OP" combos without any prior knowledge or research. I believe they should just leave it like it is - put a warning tag somewhere like PoE does that multi-classing can be difficult for new players and let those who want to try it do so laugh People should not be scared to make mistakes or fail, that is how we get better! c: Besides, I have a feeling that Larian will have some kind of re-spec mechanic since DOS2 had it, so by all means - let people test ahead! laugh

Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
But how about our Paladin companion? You cant quite create character fiting to Oathbreaker, and then allow it to become Oath of Devotion (and vice versa laugh )
I definitely see your point. I wonder if Larian would simply "skip" sub-classes (out of their original class) that do not match the character's story/personality, OOOOOR, if they decide to actually slightly change the story/behavior on the character depending on which sub-class they chose.

... That said, since we're getting PHB stuff only, Oathbreaker won't be a thing (cause that is DMG, right?). :[ I honestly don't think that there is a lot of variation within the PHB sub-classes, flavor-wise, now that I think of it... *thinking*

Last edited by Dez; 25/11/21 04:57 AM.

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Originally Posted by Dez
Well, I usually don't multi-class.
Me neither ...
But im really curious to find out wich level will be cap in this game, that could help me a lot with decision ... i mean if last 4 levels would give me no huge benefit, why even bother right? laugh

And yes im aware that they usualy do in tabletop ... at least for casters ...
But i believe you get the idea. laugh

Originally Posted by Dez
That is probably not very difficult. You can always compare it to each class being a "talent tree" from other games. Imagine that you get to spend one point during a level up in each tree, so you can pick 2 points in Cleric and then 3 in Druid if you're level 5.
I gues it would be possible ...

Originally Posted by Dez
I mean, I had no issue at all understanding the concept of the mechanic when I first got involved with CRPGs and DnD just a year ago.
Concept is quite easy indeed ... but depth is not. :-/
I mean, when i started to think about multiclass i was thinking that you can combine things that cant go together ... as mentioned earlier, for example Unarmored defence from Monk, Barbarian and Dragon Sorcerer ... some newbie as i was just week ago laugh could easily think that we will get 13AC+Con+Dex+Wis ... wich is actualy impossible.

Im really curious how will Larian deal with those overlaping rules that exclude each other ...
Will we get some warnings, or will that be just "pray that you saved before you go leveling". laugh

Originally Posted by Dez
Learning stuff like that is a part of learning how to use the multi-class. Trying different combos, reading up on it...
Yeah it should be ...
I mean even WoW have guides on the internet, they are quite easy to find, understand and follow ... and yet there are millions of people who just pick wrong talents and spells bcs "they like those pictures more". laugh

Originally Posted by Dez
Besides, I have a feeling that Larian will have some kind of re-spec mechanic since DOS2 had it, so by all means - let people test ahead! laugh
If so, that mechanic should have ben allready implemented ...
Nothing more frustrating than having to choose between loosing hour of gameplay, or continue with buged invocation for my Warlock (Devil's Sight) ... just bcs i was foolish enough to believe they allready repaired it and its safe to pick that. laugh

Originally Posted by Dez
I definitely see your point. I wonder if Larian would simply "skip" sub-classes (out of their original class) that do not match the character's story/personality, OOOOOR, if they decide to actually slightly change the story/behavior on the character depending on which sub-class they chose.
Restricting certain subclasses when necesary would be acceptable ... at least for me. laugh

I mean so far we had it easy, the only one who is forced to certain subclass is Wyll and Shadow ... but they both are picking it on level 1 ...
Paladin would be a problem. laugh

Originally Posted by Dez
... That said, since we're getting PHB stuff only, Oathbreaker won't be a thing (cause that is DMG, right?). :[ I honestly don't think that there is a lot of variation within the PHB sub-classes, flavor-wise, now that I think of it... *thinking*
That is the thing ... as far as i know Larian never explicitly confrimmed that they will not implement anything from other sourcebooks ... there was some hints, but nothing too specific so that we can base some assumptions on that.
On the contrary they repeatly told us that they are looking at other books for inspiration.

Also both whole Ranger and Dragon-Sorcerer are certainly alterned by other sources ...
And as we say in my country: Hope dies last. :P


I liked original spellcasting system more ... frown

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Yeah, multi-classing is definitely a thing that requires a solid base of system understanding in order to do correctly. I think the game should do something to help newbies along. I'm thinking there should be some function that lets you know when a choice you're making would be redundant with another choice you've already made. Ideally that system would apply the entire time, not just with multi-class, to help ease levelling in general.

As far as players handbook stuff, Larian has explicitly said that they're aiming to get everything from the players handbook into the game, but I highly doubt they're restricting themselves to that. The sense I get is that players handbook content is where they want their floor to be, and they're prioritizing getting all that in but if they can get other stuff in as well, they will. I doubt we'll see other classes or races outside of PHB, but at least a handful of other subclasses seems like it would be doable.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
That is the thing ... as far as i know Larian never explicitly confrimmed that they will not implement anything from other sourcebooks ... there was some hints, but nothing too specific so that we can base some assumptions on that.
On the contrary they repeatly told us that they are looking at other books for inspiration.

Also both whole Ranger and Dragon-Sorcerer are certainly alterned by other sources ...
And as we say in my country: Hope dies last. :P
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
As far as players handbook stuff, Larian has explicitly said that they're aiming to get everything from the players handbook into the game, but I highly doubt they're restricting themselves to that. The sense I get is that players handbook content is where they want their floor to be, and they're prioritizing getting all that in but if they can get other stuff in as well, they will. I doubt we'll see other classes or races outside of PHB, but at least a handful of other subclasses seems like it would be doable.

Huuuh, fair enough. Here's to hope then! \o/


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