Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General BG3 progress

Or perhaps they are saving the evil playthrough feedback for full release so that people who tested it in Early Access can experience something completely new when the full game is out?

I can think of few, but yes, Baldur’s Gate3 isn’t exactly Prison Architect.

In its “family” of games and “alpha build” style release (small bit of game for testing, while dev work on the rest) BG3 is taking longer, but honestly every game I can think of (Pillars of Eternity1&2, D:OS2, Owlcat games) would be better off if kept in the over for another year or so.

I don’t expect we will see majority of work that Larian has done in EA period until 1.0 drops. If BG3 will be good at launch - that’s really all that matters.

Not really, some of the issues with evil playthrough are quite game breaking.

Example 1: you come to the gate and observe the goblin attack. What would evil characters do? Will they help? No, they don't care. So, you just stay there and enjoy the view how the goblins and defenders fight without any interference, i.e. you skip turns (if you're behind the hill then goblins don't attack you, or you can enter a stealth mode). And, of course, the plot immediately falls apart. The game always assumes that you heroically help the defenders and all dialogues include options to emphasize your role in protecting the grove. Everybody praise you for the deed you didn't do.

Example 2: also in the grove, when the druids deny you entry, what would evil characters do? Who are they to tell me what to do, right? You can just ignore them and they attack you for trespassing... And the plot again falls apart because the game assumes that it is you, who attack them on behalf of Zevlor even if you didn't talk to him at all, and they start attacking tieflings out of the blue. All the dialogues later no longer make sense because they loose continuity. At the same time if you just jump into the grove from the side, practically doing the same trespassing, druids just tell you to behave and won't attack... because logic wasn't there.

And Larian didn't fix it after a year... but hey, instead they downgraded graphics for low end graphics cards and made a game lag three times more than in the beginning of EA... This annoys me, but as I said, I've already made my money worth, so I can wait for as much as they need to fix everything and finish the remaining content.

Yup ...
Bunch of spells, several new models and creatures, story changes, dialogue options, and countless other changes ...

But why bother with that when we only want to complain right?

1) As far as i know the encounter is set like that so you are allways in sight for at least one goblin so even tho your *evil* character would not go help they will probably defend themselves.
2) You seem to more than willingly ignore the fact that not everyone in your party is evil, and the others would go help ... unless you play with full custom party of totally evil band, or coming here allone, wich is both creating ilogical situations on purpose ... every story can be broken if you know what to do.
3) Once you harm even a single enemy like it or not you just helped.
4) Yes they praise for something you didnt do ... what kind of evil character would mind it?

I never managed to get around them. O_o
Unless once again metagaming on purpose.

But lets say you did ... since you are talking about logic ... how are druids suppose to know that you talked (or didnt) to Zevlor?
I mean you are not one of them ... therefore its quite logical that they concider you to be more likely tied to people who are disrespecting theyr rules for last few monts than to expect you to be just some random dude who came here "just to cause problems".

Im not touching BG3 until release now. No more spoilers for me.
I have however starting a new play through of DOS2de with a boat load of mods. Dont know what it is...just keep on coming back to that game. Though I HATE some aspect of it like itemization (fixed somewhat by some mods...). And the <frozen time> aspect. Gives me hope for BG3 being a solid gameplay experience at worst, an instant classic at best.

1. No, it is not. Are you trying to tell me what was my in-game experience? Stop it.

2. All the companions in your group can be evil (Lae'zel and Astarion are 100% evil) and you easily can come there alone, being evil. It is not illogical situation, there's even a route you can take where you meet no one.

3. As I said, it's very easy to just observe combat without participating.
4. I wouldn't mind it if it makes sense. And it does not.

Just jump down where the elevator is, no metagaming necessary.

Exactly. They don't know. But in the game they assume that some random travelers that just arrived already conspired to kill them with Zevlor, when all you do is to tell them that you need a healer and that you go where you want. A clear case of conspiracy, right? And if you jump to the circle from the back and sneak around then it's totally fine... Because logic.

Evil can take many forms.

1.I can imagine it is perfectly reasonable for you to leave the fight of the Grove (never done it, though) but siding with the goblins was not an option at that point because whatever your party is, it is not a goblin looking.

2. It depends on the evil. Most evil characters will take their time to study the environment before they decide where the most benefit lies. Scores will be settled once everything becomes clearer.

As an owner of a good PC with a low to medium end graphics, I do hope they will optimize the graphic performance at some point.

I do hope for a release in late 2022 - mid 2023.

I'm with you on that one. I haven't been to Grymforge because it'll be better later (and I'll have a more powerful computer).

To Larian's credit, the sense of wonder and discovery they create is quite powerful, but there are definitely diminishing returns. I still think I'll give the new classes a whirl in the goblin camp.

Absolutely agree that evil can be different. I played intelligent evil.
1. I didn't say I wanted to side with goblins. Not getting involved is not siding with them. The roleplay was that my character doesn't want to risk his life over the some random people. And the defenders are actually very well positioned behind the walls, so no worry about them loosing, only mercenaries are in serious danger of being killed. That's not even an evil act by itself, it's a neutral behaviour.
2. You know, normally, druids don't go on the murderous rampage over some people whom they just met willing immediately visit a doctor. I didn't expect that all grove will go nuts and start attacking not only me but everyone who's not a druid in the settlement. My expectation was that, even if there will be a fight, it will be only with the entrance guards and that they'll back off after getting few serious hits.

If you are right, then i presume Larian should make this work so that Goblins kill everyone and then start searching surroundings, until they find you. :P
Problem solved.


Indeed ... but is "being evil" all that matters?

Lae'zel would never ever hide from some lowly insignificant goblins, she would massacre them just to express her superirority.
Astarion would kill them all just for the fun of it.
Shadowheart would kill the goblins so she can get inside (wall and gate means settlement, settlement no matter how limited means potential help).
Gale would help Aradin and his group.
And you dont yet have Wyll in your party on that situation.

I never said its illogical ...
I said its purposely created just to break the story.

Its simmilar as when we start asking why nobody ever used Time-Turner to kill Voldemort in the past ... they simply didnt, deal with it.
Its simple to break the story once you know all possible outomes and can purposely prepare for them, or create situations that would not make sence ... but that doesnt mean that story itself is bad, it just mean that you managed to find a way (and i repeat its not so big problem) where puzzle pieces dont fit.

I never tryed this myself ...
But in that case as mentioned abowe, all Larian need to do is add few more ranged goblins so they either win ... or scatter around once every enemy on the ground will be dead, so they are not simply sniped by High Grounded invincible Zevlor.

Personaly i like the second option more. :P

That is just matter of perspective ...
We obviously play a different kind of "intelligent evil" ... since my Evil Warlock have seen this as opourtunity, he just kills one or two lowly and hardly challenging goblins and people will be grateful ... that means potential profit.

Do you often jump down several building floors, next to inactive elevator to find out what is down there, while clearly see the sloping path down the hill on the opposite side?

Bcs i usualy dont ... that is why it feels like metagaming.
I mean it totally make sence that person who allready played this game is thinking "huh what will happen if i get inside other way than around those pesky guards" ... but exactly that is metagaming ... and i honestly cant find any other reason for jumping there.

Same question ...
How are they suppose to know that "you just arrived" ?

Just count the facts:
- There isnt any druid up there.
- There is a group of refugees that is clearly disrespecting their rules.
- You just disrespected their rules.
- Situation in the groove is tedious at best, more like one bad step from explosion.
- Some of them are clearly just looking for excuses to act against the tieflings.
- You just give them the excuse ... since nobody cares enough to find out if there is any alliance between you and Zevlor, they simply presume and act.

Why should they threat you differently ... you had your chance, you decided to throw it away ... now you shall suffer the consequences.

You see that only from your perspective ...
You were trespassing after all ... you were warned ... but you willingly decided to ignore them.



Have you never ben in / seen some protestation, procession, or meeting of two groups of footbal fans hating each other clubs, or something simmilar ... that "went wrong"?
All you need is single person who throw an item ... it doesnt really matter if that is a rock, a beer, a cup of cola, a hotdog, or probably even flower.
Either someone from oposite side will throw it back ... and fight starts ...
OR they dont, wich encourage the first one to throw something else, since they are not retaliating ... and fight starts ...

Situation here is simmilar ...
You can see the Druid that transformed himself into a Bear WANT to attack ... but he cant, since it was forbidden ... so he stand ready, waiting for excuse.
On the other side you can see concerned parents of Arabella (and their friends) that was just ready to attack them, but the threat of Druid turning into a Bear drive them away.
>> It does not matter who throws the item first ... once there is a fight, they both join it for their own reasons ... and sooner than you realize it, whole Grove is covered by blood.

One old quote say:
All you need to start a fire is one tiny sparkle.

(just for the record, i dont know those things from personal experience ... im usualy only a watcher ... since i live just few dozen meters from footbal stadion and there are fights quite often ... but the scenario is allways the same)

Then your expectations were wrong.

It's almost like you are purposefully trying to be wrong 100% of the times.

...And for you it just comes as an effortless talent, paired with the idiosyncrasy for proper spelling.

It's almost like you are purposefully trying to be banned 100% of the time. Not everyone is a native English speaker. I don't have a count on how many times I've had to ask you to cool it over a way over-due amount of time, but I keep my promises:

If you'd remembered the last time I warned you about getting into rudeness with one another (rag, or to anyone really) you might have spared yourself this 14-day suspension. Your inter-personal grudefest ends here. I've warned you enough times over a long period of time for all sorts of attitudes. Clearly words doesn't work. If you forget it once more after that, for any reason, it'll be longer. Third time is permanent. This is an indefinite warning, at anytime at any point in the future if you post anything remotely hostile or unnecessary, remember this warning.

The fight is set up heavily in the defender's favour. Goblins cannot kill everyone. They can barely kill couple of defenders even if you ignore the fight. But they easily can kill YOU though, if you charge to help, which makes non-interference even more sense.

If you want to have a discussion, please, come up with solid points, I'm not interested in wasting my time answering straw man fallacies.

By this time, you already can have a scroll of feather fall if you searched the ruins. It's there for a reason.
You can also play the scenario by coming to the entrance, druids won't let you in, you go around, use the scroll and jump in. The game actually acknowledge this route and the druids react to it and in this scenario they don't attack, they say "How did you get here? Anyway, look around, but just don't cause any trouble." The game counts sneaking in unnoticed less suspicious than entering from the front door declaring your intent. Doesn't make sense.

Except the situation here is nothing like that. Tieflings already left and there is no tension. If they wanted an excuse to murder all tieflings they already missed the moment. Larian had a year to fix the encounter, but the only thing they added is a cut scene where druids go on murderous rampage. And, in general, I haven't noticed any plot fixes by Larian over a year, which is sad. They only add cosmetics and fan service changes. Hopefully, when they finish the plot of the game in full, they'll go over their plot for inconsistencies and fix them.

That is how it is now ... that is why i was talking about how Larian schould change the scenario.

Depends on where do you join the fight ...
Personaly i usualy run towards that hill to have high ground from the start, and barely gets single hit usualy.

Point of quoting is to show what are you refering to ...
If you replace it with own words and react on them with vague sentence with no informative value ... its both pointless. :-/

Right now i have both zero idea what were you talking about and what were you trying to say.

Cool ... but my question was not if you were able to jump there safely ...

I was asking if you often ignore safe route that is right in front of you and (waste your resource if you wish to acnowledge the sroll) jump in middle of unknown territory full of unknown creatures with unknown intentions instead.

I allways thought that the fact game acnowledge our actions is good thing. O_o

What doesnt make sence?
Guards were obiously ordered to not let anyone in ... not to drive everyone out ... that is clear from the fact that Volo is inside this whole time.

IF they were ordered to not let anyone it, they might aswell presume that someone else let you in ... since from their post they have no way to check who or why was that, they dont know if that was lazyness of some other guard, or Kaghas order ... so asuming it was Kaghas order (since they dont seem to concider their own peple to be lazy or incompetent) they didnt drive you out.
Seems quite understandable to me. O_o

Seems we probably visited different grove.

Have you even talked to them? 0nly two emotions are there Anger and Frustration.

Did they tho?
Tieflings were rude, but didnt start any agression ... then situation even started to be tense, they back off ... Tieflings are ballancing on the edge, and they are good at it ... Druids on the other hand dont want to do the first step.

Have anything specific in mind?
I would like to know.

I on the other hand didnt notice any plot that would need a fix ... it seems people in Larian see it simmilary.

Of course, if YOU didn't notice then it's totally different. The plot must be ideal then. Pretty sure every morning Swen goes online to check what's RagnarokCzD is thinking about the game, whether he is happy with the plot or not.
You know, every game forum has a rabid fan that deny any criticism of the game. You're the local version of those, so I'm not interested in continuing the discussion with you. Have a nice day.

I wonder why do you felt the urge to make it personal. O_o
Maybe bcs you didnt have any argument?

/shrug ... well ... bye bye i gues.

This makes perfect sense to me. The way I would play it would be to hide on the hill and watch and then maybe help kill the last goblin as if I just got there to gain goodwill from the defenders for "helping." There isn't a point to getting involved in a conflict that has nothing to do with me unless there is some benefit.

Something they could add could be that after most of the goblins are dead from however the fight ends up going, then a couple more come up with some sort of explosives to blow up the gate. One of the companions or even our own character if playing solo could then make a comment about we had better help the defenders if we want to find that healer. This would probably be less complicated than removing all assumptions of us helping.

I can sort of see how this one plays out the way it does. The guards would easily assume you are helping Zevlor because they are already on edge and anything small will make them want to fight something. Also they want the tieflings out so in their minds the tieflings want to be rid of them, this is a common behaviour. If you sneak into the grove in another manner, then most likely the rest of the druids think you have permission to be there.

Something they could do to make this a bit better could be to add more druid witnesses to the confrontation with the guards. One goes further into the grove to alert the others and the rest start attacking the tieflings. Been a while since I played it so not sure if this is what already happens. If we were able to quickly kill all witnesses then nothing should happen then, but by the time we come out of the grove a druid would have seen the bodies and the fight would have already started. I somehow doubt they will add in a way to hide bodies but it would be nice. Wouldn't have to kill everyone inside if I could just hide Nettie's body in a chest.

From a warfare perspective, you would not bring a siege equipment to a raiding party. The goal of the first goblin party is not to sack the grove but kill the survivors from the expedition and potentially acquire loot and food.

I do think helping the defenders & by extension Wyll should be optional. If you have not, I guess you can still get access to Kagha as she is in desperate need for some outsider's help to get rid of the tieflings. The same is valid for Zevlor. If you are a tiefling that might introduce you to Zevlor who can send you to Kagha. For drows, I guess this might also work as you are a predominantly non drow party.

It's simply that they're not adding everything that they've finished to ea, so we have no idea how progress is going. We wont see every race and class (that they're planning to add to the game) in ea.