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#810346 28/02/22 10:59 AM
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Just a question ...
I have seen some youtubers trying some Feats, but those were usualy dedicated gameplay, just to mess with them ... and the outcome was usualy vague, since their characters most often lacked the statistic to support the feat. :-/

I wonder if you people have it same, or is it just me ...
But i have aproximately 20-30 playthrough done ... and i used feat maybe twice, in every other case i just decided to boost my primary Ability Score. :-/

And therefore i would like to ask two things from Larian:
1) Please implement stat rolls as soon as possible ... it would really help, and as far as i know it was promised for final release anyway ... so, it should not be so huge problem.
2) Please consider implementing Variant Human ... if that is even planned, that allone could help us test feats even better.

But combination of both would be for the purpose of feat testing totally awesome! :P
Thanks for listening.


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I think it would be better if everyone just started with a free feat. Something like that isn't going to break the game; it'll make it more fun.

I don't care so much about following core rules. Just give the extra feat.

Throughout the years, I've heard numerous arguments about how the system was balanced and how the slightest change would upset the balance, ultimately preaching for purity in the rules. And yet there have been multiple editions.

I'm to the point where I'm not convinced any of the versions are sacred or balanced at the core. It's ever evolving, ever changing.

I say just give everyone the free feat and let the game be more fun to play.

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That is exactly what Variant Human do. smile

Quote
Variant Human
Source: Player's Handbook

- Ability Score Increase. Two different ability scores of your choice increase by 1.
- Skills. You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice.
- Feat. You gain one Feat of your choice.
Source: http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/human


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
That is exactly what Variant Human do. smile

Quote
Variant Human
Source: Player's Handbook

- Ability Score Increase. Two different ability scores of your choice increase by 1.
- Skills. You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice.
- Feat. You gain one Feat of your choice.
Source: http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/human

Yeah, I just think that free feat at level one should be available for all racial choices.

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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
That is exactly what Variant Human do. smile

Quote
Variant Human
Source: Player's Handbook

- Ability Score Increase. Two different ability scores of your choice increase by 1.
- Skills. You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice.
- Feat. You gain one Feat of your choice.
Source: http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/human

Yeah, I just think that free feat at level one should be available for all racial choices.

Nah. I disagree. But then, you knew I would. Again, giving EVERYONE a free feat makes Variant Human not special, and it opens up for more imbalance issues.

Honestly, you must be the most imbalanced DM I've ever spoken with, rules imbalanced, that is. Do you just make up whatever you want when you play and ignore the rules a lot? I'm just curious. Not being mean here. I've just never met someone who said they were a long-standing DM who totally blasts the rules like you do.

As for the OP, I do use feats regularly. I wish more were available. I miss some of my favorites. Ability increases are boring to me. I do them when there is no feat I like for a character. So, Lae'zel usually gets a straight Ability increase because it works better for her, but other characters I go straight for the feats.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
As for the OP, I do use feats regularly. I wish more were available. I miss some of my favorites. Ability increases are boring to me. I do them when there is no feat I like for a character. So, Lae'zel usually gets a straight Ability increase because it works better for her, but other characters I go straight for the feats.
Can you provide some examples? Which feats you think are good for which origin characters, for example. I tried to look at them, but the way origin characters are statted, at level 4 nothing beats an ASI for me.

I don't even remember taking feats in Solasta when level cap was 10, although they did make a fine mess with them.

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I sometimes use feats. Especially when playing the charisma-based classes, warlock and sorcerer. I usually go with tiefling or halfelf there, get 17 charisma, steal Volos Ersatzeye and push the charisma to 18. On level 4 I choose a feat then. With the sorcerer the warlock spell list for Hex ( very nice combo, it feels a bit like multiclassing sorcerlock) and with warlock it depends on what I want to do.
You could do that with other stats/classes with Auntie Ethels hair, but I normally play good and don't want to throw Mayrina under the bus ... plus Auntie Ethels fight is really bugged for me, so the deal doesn't pop up anymore.


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Honestly I don’t. Even if there a freaks I would like to get it just seems like a worst choice then boosting stats. I dislike that it is a choice between stat boosting and a perk - it might be less offensive once we level up higher and manage to raise key stat to max level, but within levels offers stats just apt seem like a better choice.

I honestly don’t remember leveling up in Solasta - 5e unfortunately seems to be back to 2ed times when any important choices were made during character creation and afterwards it was rather passive. Quite a step back after 3,5, Pathfinder and PoE.

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I usually take the +2.

Think I took Magic Initiate: Warlock one time on my druid test run just for Eldritch Blast since I had no decent ranged capability and don't like shapeshifting, her Cha was higher than Dex or I would have taken Weapon Master instead. Mobile can be useful if I have a token melee character and want them to actually be able to hit the enemy before the rest of the party does all the damage, but could use the speed increasing gear instead. Otherwise, I find the rest of the currently implemented feats to be rather pointless.

Waiting for Observant, although this may be more fun/useful in proper DnD, War Caster, and Sharpshooter, but only if that one works as intended with the -5 being optional rather than mandatory. Possibly Skulker if they fix the broken stealth. The others I like will have to come from mods.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Honestly I don’t. Even if there a freaks I would like to get it just seems like a worst choice then boosting stats. I dislike that it is a choice between stat boosting and a perk - it might be less offensive once we level up higher and manage to raise key stat to max level, but within levels offers stats just apt seem like a better choice.
My thoughts exactly ...

So i have ben wondering IF they would implement stat rolling (wich as far as i remember was promised, so it should not be taken as any extra work) ...
We would have at least chance with some characters to have high stats since the start, so we could try and pick some Feats. O:)

I know rolling was hot topic some time ago ...
But i have tryed to create some characters on DnDBeyond and it didnt take too much time to roll at least single 18 ...
(i was also so lucky so my first character ended up with 18 16 18 11 10 8 laugh )

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 28/02/22 02:38 PM.

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Originally Posted by RutgerF
Originally Posted by GM4Him
As for the OP, I do use feats regularly. I wish more were available. I miss some of my favorites. Ability increases are boring to me. I do them when there is no feat I like for a character. So, Lae'zel usually gets a straight Ability increase because it works better for her, but other characters I go straight for the feats.
Can you provide some examples? Which feats you think are good for which origin characters, for example. I tried to look at them, but the way origin characters are statted, at level 4 nothing beats an ASI for me.

I don't even remember taking feats in Solasta when level cap was 10, although they did make a fine mess with them.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the feats in Solasta. However, off the top of my head, Dual Wielder with Lae'zel has been cool. Two weapon fighting with long swords and +1 AC is good. That one also works for a barbarian or a strength based ranger. Though not used as much, armor proficiency feats are also nice, and will be nicer when they give us better armor to work with in the future. Once they give us full plate armor, I will probably have Shadow heart Take the heavy armor proficiency, so she can use full plate. I sometimes have liked to give Gale light armor proficiency, just because he's such a wuss. I've also given Wyll better armored class proficiency as well, because he's so squishy.

One of my most used ones is weapon mastery. This allows me to make it so that my cleric of Tyr can use the greatsword taken from Andres. It allows him to also then have better weapons to deal more damage.

There are so many different feats that I'd love for them to put in the game. Spearmastery is one. I like to give shadow heart the Watchers spear that you get relatively early. Having spearmastery would give her a bigger boost with that weapon.

I would really love it if they made Shove an Action, rather than Bonus Action, and then they added Shield Master's most powerful feature back into it, that if you are equipped with your shield, you can make an attack action and then use your bonus to shove 5 feet instead of allowing everyone to do both Attack and Shove in a single turn. That would make Shield Master so much more unique and valuable.

If they fixed ranges and added cover rules, Sharpshooter would make a darn good feat for someone like Astarion who uses ranged weapons a lot. It is useless right now, because ranges are so broken and there is no cover.

Skulker would also be awesome if they fixed Stealth in the game.

See? Here again are reasons why I'd love for them to be more true to the 5e ruleset. Feats are not as cool because Larian has kinda stripped them of their values.

So, I guess you could say that in a way Larian has been giving out free Feats to all characters by homebrewing different rules. What is normally something you have to get as a feat in 5e is something they're letting all characters do, like Shove as a bonus.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Just a question ...
I have seen some youtubers trying some Feats, but those were usualy dedicated gameplay, just to mess with them ... and the outcome was usualy vague, since their characters most often lacked the statistic to support the feat. :-/

I wonder if you people have it same, or is it just me ...
But i have aproximately 20-30 playthrough done ... and i used feat maybe twice, in every other case i just decided to boost my primary Ability Score. :-/

And therefore i would like to ask two things from Larian:
1) Please implement stat rolls as soon as possible ... it would really help, and as far as i know it was promised for final release anyway ... so, it should not be so huge problem.
2) Please consider implementing Variant Human ... if that is even planned, that allone could help us test feats even better.

But combination of both would be for the purpose of feat testing totally awesome! :P
Thanks for listening.


YES! I have advocated for Roll for Stats and Variant Human since forever! But even despite how things are currently, I still get mileage from the Great Weapon Master feat playing my dwarven barbarian using reckless attacks in his rage =)

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Originally Posted by JandK
I think it would be better if everyone just started with a free feat. Something like that isn't going to break the game; it'll make it more fun.

I don't care so much about following core rules. Just give the extra feat.

Throughout the years, I've heard numerous arguments about how the system was balanced and how the slightest change would upset the balance, ultimately preaching for purity in the rules. And yet there have been multiple editions.

I'm to the point where I'm not convinced any of the versions are sacred or balanced at the core. It's ever evolving, ever changing.

I say just give everyone the free feat and let the game be more fun to play.


YES!!! I love free feats... it makes a character more of a character!!!

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by JandK
Yeah, I just think that free feat at level one should be available for all racial choices.

Nah. I disagree. But then, you knew I would. Again, giving EVERYONE a free feat makes Variant Human not special, and it opens up for more imbalance issues.
Variant Human gets 2 feats then - the one given by their class and their free feat. Still special. And giving everyone a free feat unbalances all classes equally - unlike many of the other balance changes people argue against - where the solution is just to make combats more difficult to compensate.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by JandK
Yeah, I just think that free feat at level one should be available for all racial choices.

Nah. I disagree. But then, you knew I would. Again, giving EVERYONE a free feat makes Variant Human not special, and it opens up for more imbalance issues.
Variant Human gets 2 feats then - the one given by their class and their free feat. Still special. And giving everyone a free feat unbalances all classes equally - unlike many of the other balance changes people argue against - where the solution is just to make combats more difficult to compensate.

I guess. It's just, feats in 5e are supposed to represent either special racial/class traits or a character's more advanced training. Giving them out at level 1, to me, seems to whitewash starting racial traits for different races, etc.

I mean, if you allow a free feat at character creation, Level 1 characters could then use Great Weapon Mastery right from the start. Or, I could use Dual Wielder immediately, equipping someone at Level 1 with 2 non-light weapons.

So, where's the buildup? I've already started awesome. Got nowhere to go from there but build up Ability scores. And you can only do that for so long because there's a cap on Ability scores. So, by level 8, Lae'zel could be pretty much maxed out on Strength with Great Weapon Mastery and so forth.

I just think it leaves too much room to yet again unbalance the game. You THINK it won't, and who knows, maybe it won't. I've never tested handing out free feats at level 1, but I think it likely would.

I certainly would be less inclined to take a feat at level 4, that's for sure. If I can take one at level 1, I'd likely take what I want at level 1 and just do an ASI at level 4. Maybe, I might take another, but I doubt it. Feats would become even less valuable, I would think.

Last edited by GM4Him; 28/02/22 03:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
off the top of my head, Dual Wielder with Lae'zel has been cool. Two weapon fighting with long swords and +1 AC is good. That one also works for a barbarian or a strength based ranger. Though not used as much, armor proficiency feats are also nice, and will be nicer when they give us better armor to work with in the future. Once they give us full plate armor, I will probably have Shadow heart Take the heavy armor proficiency, so she can use full plate. I sometimes have liked to give Gale light armor proficiency, just because he's such a wuss. I've also given Wyll better armored class proficiency as well, because he's so squishy.
Those are certainly interesting choices ...

A few questions if you please.
There is no overstatement my interest! laugh

Dual Wielder for Lae'zel, dont you feel like you are wasting it a little?
Since she starts with Great Weapon Fighting style by default. O_o
To me it seems she would work much better with Great Weapon Master Feat ... of course especialy after they fix that Bonus Action attack ... wich as i heard (didnt try myself) dont do anything right now. frown
(It would be kinda half-wasted on Berserker Barbarian tho, since they allready are attacking with their Bonus Action, when they Rage ... i mean Frenzy smile )

But IF we would have option to diceroll our stats, this could unlock its true potential ... i mean -5 is heavy penalisation, if your character have only +3 from 17 Strength. laugh

Giving plate armor to Shadowheart seems also a little odd to me, since then her 14 Dex would be completely wasted. :-/
Is that really worthy that +1AC, when compared to Half Plate he can wear right now ? O_o

Also i wonder wich armor did you find for gale, so it was better than 13+Dex he have from Mage Armor. O_o


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I mean, I definitely recognize that feats can unbalance the game and make lvl 1 characters super powerful, which can result in swingy combat. A level 2 barbarian with GWM and Charger is very OP - their attack has +15 damage.

Potentially the "free feat" list could be a restricted list, including all the less common feats that are more flavorful than strictly powerful: Athlete, Martial Adept, Skilled, Tough, etc.

Though I still recognize that this further diminishes the impacts of leveling up compared to your character's power at level 1. I would prefer if characters gained both feats and ASIs during level up, but here we are...

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
So i have ben wondering IF they would implement stat rolling (wich as far as i remember was promised, so it should not be taken as any extra work) ...
We would have at least chance with some characters to have high stats since the start, so we could try and pick some Feats. O:)
I am not sure there is a need for stat rolling - they could just allow to raise stats higher. Limit to how high I can raise my warriors strength at the start... is curious to me.

I am surprised you take issue with this Rag. Taking your "shove" logic, if you want to take feats just take a feat even if it's not a desiarable option. No one is forcing you to boost your stat if you don't find that fun. It is almost as if you were arguing for a better balance between options give to you, and that would be unthinkable. smile

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
So i have ben wondering IF they would implement stat rolling (wich as far as i remember was promised, so it should not be taken as any extra work) ...
We would have at least chance with some characters to have high stats since the start, so we could try and pick some Feats. O:)
I am not sure there is a need for stat rolling - they could just allow to raise stats higher. Limit to how high I can raise my warriors strength at the start... is curious to me.

I am surprised you take issue with this Rag. Taking your "shove" logic, if you want to take feats just take a feat even if it's not a desiarable option. No one is forcing you to boost your stat if you don't find that fun. It is almost as if you were arguing for a better balance between options give to you, and that would be unthinkable. smile

The reason to limit stats is because players can literally focus too much on a particular Ability score and make them so tough it's imbalanced.

Imagine you create a warrior with Strength 20. Everything else sucks, but you have super high +5 Strength. Dang! Ogre Warrior.

Now what? Where do you go from there? You're already 20 Strength. Should they let you just go higher in Strength than 20? Shall they let you go to 24... 26... 28?

+5 is already REALLY high. That's like Arnold Schwartzanegger at his prime. Imagine Athletics with +6 or +7 or +8 Base stat. OMG. You'd never fail in Shoving enemies off cliffs or throwing them. As it is, +4 Base Strength + 3 Proficiency is +7 Athletics. That versus a +1 or +2 enemy is still a pretty high chance that you're going to shove and throw things off ledges and cliffs. I can't even imagine you allow players to buff their Strength stat higher than that. Then, at higher levels...

The limits prevent imbalances over and over and over again.

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Another related question is… who ever takes Human? Anytime I roll up a Human, I end up switching to Half Elf because it’s just so much better without any downside. I really would like Variant Human to be implemented so that I would have a reason to be Human. Having an extra Feat and Skill at character creation would be really appealing.

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