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#811556 14/03/22 01:26 AM
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I always have a laundry list of ideas/changes when I'm playing, but when I get to actually hopping on the forums, my mind blanks... I just hate that... So, I'm just going to post as they come to me. Most, if not all have been stated previously, and being EA, I'm sure there will be a lot implemented via the ideas of the players, hence why these are only ideas. smile

1. The "Metal Gauntlets". A good idea, bu they are light armor. Any kind of plate armor, should be heavy. I like the idea of separate body pieces of armor, granting different things, but I think there should be leather gauntlets and plate gauntlets. Leather gauntlets, would be light armor, and might give a bonus to to Dex checks, where plate gauntlets, being heavy armor give a bonus to Con checks. Where scale or chain gauntlets (medium armor) would give the Str check bonus.

2. I think I mentioned this when the druid patch came out, but remember, druids cannot where metal armor of any sort (hence the suggestion above). If they do, they lose all spells and benefits of being a druid. The only exception to this is he scimitar, which due to it's design as looking like a crescent moon, is allowed by the circles. (same reasoning as the sickle) Druids cannot wear scale armor, unless it is dragon scale, and the idea of wearing metal gloves or boots is just wrong to a druid.

3. I know this has been said before, but I would like throw it out here again. A 5 member party. This way you can have your balanced party (tank, healer, rogue, mage), and also have a spare slot to pretty much play with however you see fit. I understand this would require rebalancing, but I think it would make trying to figure out what character to give up, in order to play the character you want, much better.

That being said, I LOVE the new dialog options for the druids while in the grove! It makes playing a druid (my favorite class) much more worthwhile in understanding much of the story with Khaga and the others.

As always, Larian, great job with what you are doing! It's been a long raod and it's going to be a bit longer, but I, personally would rather see a completed, balanced and deep product, than one that was rushed out the door.

Vortex138 #811557 14/03/22 02:17 AM
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Though I agree that druids using metal is kinda like a sin, druids can use metal and wear metal armor. There is nothing saying they can't in 5e, and nothing saying they lose their ability to cast spells.

PHB states, "druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal.". The implication is that they choose to not do it. It is a matter of will. Nothing says they can't.

Druids have a taboo against wearing metal armor and wielding a metal shield. The taboo has been part of the class’s story since the class first appeared in Eldritch Wizardry (1976) and the original Player’s Handbook (1978). The idea is that druids prefer to be protected by animal skins, wood, and other natural materials that aren’t the worked metal that is associated with civilization. Druids don’t lack the ability to wear metal armor. They choose not to wear it. This choice is part of their identity as a mystical order. Think of it in these terms: a vegetarian can eat meat, but chooses not to.

So, I think it should be allowed, but there should certainly be ramifications. A druid sees your druid wearing metal should criticize you and look down on you. "What is this? You're no druid. No self respecting druid would DARE use metal. Vulgar! An outrage!"

I pretty much agree with everything else.

Last edited by GM4Him; 14/03/22 02:18 AM.
Vortex138 #811558 14/03/22 02:50 AM
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Kind of dumb they nerfed the negative to metal for druids, 3.5 used to be:

A druid who wears prohibited armor or carries a prohibited shield is unable to cast druid spells or use any of her supernatural or spell-like class abilities while doing so and for 24 hours thereafter. This was about the same for multiple other classes also (having negative effects that is).

There was this also:

A druid may also wear wooden armor that has been altered by the ironwood spell so that it functions as though it were steel. See the ironwood spell description, page 246)

dnd.arkalseif.info

Last edited by fallenj; 14/03/22 02:51 AM.
Vortex138 #811582 14/03/22 12:11 PM
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I'll just point out for the purposes of THIS game making it so Druids couldn't wear Metal Armor wield Metal Shields would be a HUGE detriment and might cause people to not want to play druid as there would be almost 0 armor for them. Just food for thought

CMK #811586 14/03/22 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CMK
I'll just point out for the purposes of THIS game making it so Druids couldn't wear Metal Armor wield Metal Shields would be a HUGE detriment and might cause people to not want to play druid as there would be almost 0 armor for them. Just food for thought

This game? Did it stop people from making druids in any of the other d&d games? pls that's a stretch

Vortex138 #811587 14/03/22 01:43 PM
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I think he got a point ...
It felt pretty stupid when i realized that if i want to play Medium Armored Barbarian i have to choose between not-so-effective AC, or looking weird in mail (or even worse Githyanki) armor. :-/

Dont get me wrong here, i like Githyanki armor ... its just not barbaric at all. laugh
(And im still pissed off that there is no Gloves and Boots for us that would be fiting it, esteticaly.)
And why whould anyone wear any other Non-enchanted Medium Amor ... than Githyanki one? :-/

I mean ... what is purpose for Hide Armor, Scale Mail Armor, or Chain Armor ... compared to Breastplate, or Half-Plate in this game? :-/

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 14/03/22 01:44 PM.

Vive et vivant. wink
GM4Him #811588 14/03/22 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Though I agree that druids using metal is kinda like a sin, druids can use metal and wear metal armor. There is nothing saying they can't in 5e, and nothing saying they lose their ability to cast spells.

PHB states, "druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal.". The implication is that they choose to not do it. It is a matter of will. Nothing says they can't.

Druids have a taboo against wearing metal armor and wielding a metal shield. The taboo has been part of the class’s story since the class first appeared in Eldritch Wizardry (1976) and the original Player’s Handbook (1978). The idea is that druids prefer to be protected by animal skins, wood, and other natural materials that aren’t the worked metal that is associated with civilization. Druids don’t lack the ability to wear metal armor. They choose not to wear it. This choice is part of their identity as a mystical order. Think of it in these terms: a vegetarian can eat meat, but chooses not to.

So, I think it should be allowed, but there should certainly be ramifications. A druid sees your druid wearing metal should criticize you and look down on you. "What is this? You're no druid. No self respecting druid would DARE use metal. Vulgar! An outrage!"

I pretty much agree with everything else.

You hit the nail on the head, however the correct conclusion is the opposite of the point you made.

To get the benefits of the Druid class, you must be a Druid. To be a Druid you must, well BE A DRUID. "Druids will not wear armor..."
It says it right there.

Exactly the same with your comparison.
a vegetarian can eat meat, but chooses not to. Correct, but by definition, being a vegetarian means you don't eat meat. The moment you eat meat, you're not a vegetarian.

The moment you wear armor or use shields made of metal, you're no longer a Druid.


As far as this armor not having the same numbers attached to it as this other armor that my character can't wear because this game isn't fair....TOO BAD. That's life.

If you want to play a Druid, then play a Druid!

.....................

But I want all the benefits of being a Paladin, but I'm going to be a really chaotic Paladin, and not adhere to any of the rules of the Paladin, but I'm still a Paladin....

Just NO.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I think he got a point ...
It felt pretty stupid when i realized that if i want to play Medium Armored Barbarian i have to choose between not-so-effective AC, or looking weird in mail (or even worse Githyanki) armor. :-/

Dont get me wrong here, i like Githyanki armor ... its just not barbaric at all. laugh
(And im still pissed off that there is no Gloves and Boots for us that would be fiting it, esteticaly.)
And why whould anyone wear any other Non-enchanted Medium Amor ... than Githyanki one? :-/

I mean ... what is purpose for Hide Armor, Scale Mail Armor, or Chain Armor ... compared to Breastplate, or Half-Plate in this game? :-/

The point of Hide Armor IS that druids have an acceptable replacement for studded leather. Most druids wear Hide armor.
Scale is top tier armor for those with Medium armor proficiency; providing a cheaper alternative to Breastplate. Breastplate is better because it's less weight and doesn't penalize stealth, but it's also 400 gp as opposed to 50.
Chain is often starter armor for various classes, and if you have 10 Dex or lower, Chain is better than half plate. It's also 10 times cheaper.

So, every armor is supposed to have it's place, but Larian isn't giving it proper place. That's why it seems like some armor is pointless.

Druids should be restricted to armors without metal - the game allowing them to use metal but warning that it is taboo for a druid to use metal.

Ringmail is actually an acceptable armor for druids (well, some DM's permit under certain circumstances) because it is not necessarily made of metal rings. It may be made with bone rings, or something natural. So, it can be a heavier alternative to Hide.

The point of limiting druids like this is that they are spellcasters, not fighters. So, by limiting their armor options makes it so that they aren't so freaking tough. Think about their abilities for a sec. Wild Shape for extra health and abilities, magic, and they can rush into melee. They're pretty freaking tough as it is. Now add higher AC so they're hard to hit. Suddenly, other classes aren't even a match. The druid becomes a spellcaster, tank, high damage dealer, healer... Everything. Restricting armor brings them to a better balance. Now they aren't SO OP.

iBowfish #811590 14/03/22 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by iBowfish
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Though I agree that druids using metal is kinda like a sin, druids can use metal and wear metal armor. There is nothing saying they can't in 5e, and nothing saying they lose their ability to cast spells.

PHB states, "druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal.". The implication is that they choose to not do it. It is a matter of will. Nothing says they can't.

Druids have a taboo against wearing metal armor and wielding a metal shield. The taboo has been part of the class’s story since the class first appeared in Eldritch Wizardry (1976) and the original Player’s Handbook (1978). The idea is that druids prefer to be protected by animal skins, wood, and other natural materials that aren’t the worked metal that is associated with civilization. Druids don’t lack the ability to wear metal armor. They choose not to wear it. This choice is part of their identity as a mystical order. Think of it in these terms: a vegetarian can eat meat, but chooses not to.

So, I think it should be allowed, but there should certainly be ramifications. A druid sees your druid wearing metal should criticize you and look down on you. "What is this? You're no druid. No self respecting druid would DARE use metal. Vulgar! An outrage!"

I pretty much agree with everything else.

You hit the nail on the head, however the correct conclusion is the opposite of the point you made.

To get the benefits of the Druid class, you must be a Druid. To be a Druid you must, well BE A DRUID. "Druids will not wear armor..."
It says it right there.

Exactly the same with your comparison.
a vegetarian can eat meat, but chooses not to. Correct, but by definition, being a vegetarian means you don't eat meat. The moment you eat meat, you're not a vegetarian.

The moment you wear armor or use shields made of metal, you're no longer a Druid.


As far as this armor not having the same numbers attached to it as this other armor that my character can't wear because this game isn't fair....TOO BAD. That's life.

If you want to play a Druid, then play a Druid!

.....................

But I want all the benefits of being a Paladin, but I'm going to be a really chaotic Paladin, and not adhere to any of the rules of the Paladin, but I'm still a Paladin....

Just NO.

I guess it's a matter of interpretation. Some view it differently. I'm actually fine either way. The armor limitations bring balance to the class. That's really the point of it. I mean, think about it. Metal is natural too, so why is it taboo? Because D&D says so. Why? To make druids not so tough, really. Give them no armor restrictions and they are supreme to all other classes.

Regardless, there should be some sort of consequences for a druid using metal. Either don't allow it or have other druids viewing your character poorly because you're using something that is taboo.

I will say that there is a story based logical reasoning for saying that they shouldn't be able to use it. If Silvanus disapproves, and he gives them their power...

GM4Him #811598 14/03/22 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
The point of Hide Armor IS that druids have an acceptable replacement for studded leather.
I request elaboration ...

Hide Armor
> AC 12 + Dex (up to 2) ... so 14 top.

Studded Leather Armor
> AC 12 + Dex (up to 5) ... so 17 top.

Why would Druids rather wear Hide Armor, that limits their Dexterity bonus, and adds nothing in return? O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Scale is top tier armor for those with Medium armor proficiency; providing a cheaper alternative to Breastplate. Breastplate is better because it's less weight and doesn't penalize stealth, but it's also 400 gp as opposed to 50
Cost is good argument, as long are we are buying the armor ...
But i think we all know that our main source of equipment in this game will probably be loot. laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
if you have 10 Dex or lower, Chain is better than half plate.
I was going to ask about explanation how armor that gives you 13+Dex(up to 2) can be better than armor that gives you 15+Dex(up to 2) ...

But now i see it!
You for some reason thinked that i was talking about Chain Mail, Heavy Armor ... instead of Chain Shirt, Medium Armor (also Cleric Starting armor) ... wich is the same type as every other type of armor i was talking about, so it makes sence to compare them together when we are talking about Armors that Druids can possibly wear ... while Heavy Armor is whole other topic and Druids cant even wear it ... so its relevance is somewhere around zero. :-/

Originally Posted by GM4Him
The point of limiting druids like this is that they are spellcasters, not fighters.
So are Githyanki (or Dwarf) Wizards ...
And they can easily wear both Githyanki Half-Plate and Shield. O_o

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Now add higher AC so they're hard to hit.
Well ... i obviously know what AC do ...
And yes i also played the Druid so im well aware that AC "so they are harder to hit" only apply when they are out of their form ...

Im not quite sure if talking about temporary hit points "and" high AC is corect wording in this topic ...
They seems more like temporary hit points "or" high AC type ...


Vive et vivant. wink
Vortex138 #811603 14/03/22 07:03 PM
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OK. It's D&D 5e Item Talk. And here's your host: GM4Him. Today, we're talking about armors and why each one is important in the D&D 5e system. You see, each armor, even if it doesn't seem good, has its specific place in the D&D universe. If armor is not handled correctly, its value is negated and therefore not needed in a game, whether cRPG or Tabletop.

Padded - Worst kind of armor you can find. It gives you the same protection as Leather, but it gives Disadvantage on Stealth checks. Ew! Who would want that? Well, if you only have 5 gp, it's better than nothing. Also, if you're not stealthy, who cares? If you're not planning on sniping enemies or stabbing them in the back, why not Padded? It's the cheapest and it weighs 2 pounds less than Leather. This should actually be the most commonly found junk armor you find in the beginning during the prologue. All the thralls should have it, and if you were to start with nothing, it should be the most basic armor you find in the beginning. Why? Because the point of D&D is to build up your character from nothing to something awesome. It's about the journey from virtual zero to total and absolute hero. Granted, fighting imps and intellect devourers and hellsboars and demons and cambions at Level 1 with Padded Armor, no matter what class you are, is suicide, so I totally get why they don't start you with lame, Padded Armor. Now, why Astarion, who is a rogue vampire spawn starts with such armor is 100% beyond me. He, of all people, should not start with this armor. He should be in Leather from the moment we meet him. But, we're not discussing, in this post, just how weird the equipment sets are for each of the origin characters, are we? If we were, we'd have to also point out here that Shadowheart wearing what looks like plate armor - which is actually chain - is also quite weird, especially since that armor looks like Dark Justiciar armor which should draw everyone's attention who meets here and gets them wondering, "Hey! Aren't you a Sharran cleric?" Then they should turn on her and try to kill her on sight, because most common folk, especially the druids of the Emerald Grove, really REALLY don't like Shar. And we'd also have to wonder why Lae'zel AND Shadowheart both would ever let you take their armor - since Shadowheart's is obviously Sharran and Dark Justiciars are elite Sharrans, so she'd be really proud to be wearing it, and since Lae'zel is a gith which are proud by nature and would NOT let anyone take their armor especially if they gave them inferior armor to replace their superior armor. Yeah... really weird. And why Wyll with Padded? Why not Leather like any normal Warlock would be? I don't get it.

Leather - Very basic armor. Good for those with High Dexterity. Doesn't hinder stealth, and it doesn't limit your Dex bonus. Even if you're a cleric, if you have High Dexterity, Leather could be better than some of the heavier armors. It's light weight, cheap, and better than nothing - unless, of course, you're a Monk or Barbarian with Unarmored Defense, High Dexterity and High Constitution (Barbarian) or Wisdom (Monk).

Studded Leather - The best dang Light Armor you can find, of all the basic armors, that is. 12+Dex. Ah! Rogues will certainly upgrade to Studded Leather at the first chance they get, unless they already have Leather + 1. Why not? It's only 45 gold, as opposed to 10 for Leather, and it only weighs 3 more pounds. That's like a drop in the bucket. So, it's 1 point better than Leather, so if you can afford it, why not? Note: In most D&D 5e sessions where you start with Level 1 characters, almost all Rogues and similar classes would start with Leather and upgrade to Studded Leather as soon as they can. The point, again, is to build up your character, to start super low and upgrade, not start at Studded Leather and have nowhere to go. So, starting characters with Leather or Padded is a GOOD start for these classes so they have somewhere to go later.

On to Mediums.

Hide - Worst armor of the Medium variety. It only gives 12+Dex(max +2). So why would anyone want it? Ever? Why does it even exist? Studded is better? Hide is only really better than Leather and Padded. So why? The answer is: Druid. Druids start with Leather armor. Why? No metal. Why? It's taboo. So, although they CAN have Medium armor, most armor - Light, Medium or Heavy - is made with metal of some kind, so it is taboo for them to wear. So, they start with Leather and typically will only upgrade to Hide because Hide is made of animal skins and furs. Why not Studded Leather? It's better than Hide. Because Studded Leather is usually made with metal studs. It CAN be made with bones or teeth or other such natural studs, but typically it is made with metal, so unless the DM says, "You find a set of Studded Leather Armor made with bones and teeth for studs," you as a druid would never buy or wear a set. This is one of the primary limitations of a Druid. Wizards are limited in that they can't wear armor at all, unless they take a special feat just to wear Leather, Rogues are limited to Light, as are Warlocks, Monks and Barbarians are limited to wear no armor or they don't get their special bonuses for defense, and Druids are limited in that they can't wear as many types of armor. Pretty much Padded, Leather and Hide. That's all they get, so they aren't too OP. Take away the Druid's limitation on wearing metal, and Hide becomes pointless and stupid to even have in the game. Just take it out. It's no good.

Chain Shirt - Next worst Medium Armor. However, it's 13 + Dex (max +2), so if you don't have more than 14 Dex, it is better than Leather, Padded, Studded Leather and Hide. Chain Shirt is also better than Padded because it doesn't provide Disadvantage on Stealth. So, overall, a decent set of armor to upgrade to if you have Medium Armor proficiency. So, at level 4, if you are a Bard, Rogue, Warlock, etc., and you choose the Medium Armor Proficiency Feat, you would maybe do well to upgrade right away to Chain Shirt, if you can. It's only 50 gp, and it only weighs 20 pounds, so not bad set. Not great, but not bad.

Breastplate versus Scale Mail - Why would you choose Scale Mail when you could Choose Breastplate? After all, both are 14 + Dex (max +2). So, better than all previous armors unless you're a Rogue or something with +4 or +5 Dex and Studded Leather. Well, you might choose Scale because it's cheaper at only 50 GP. If you can get the same protection with Scale that you get with Breastplate, and Breastplate is 400 gp, well, even if you found Breastplate as loot, you'd likely sell it and keep the Scale because you'd get 8 times the gp from it. That said, Scale gives you Disadvantage on Stealth, while Breastplate doesn't, so if you aren't stealthy and don't plan on sneaking, ever, Scale beats Breastplate. But, if you plan on sneaking, sell the Scale and wear the Breastplate. Also, Breastplate weighs less, so it really is superior in most ways. The only time you'd want Scale over Breastplate is if you're never going to sneak and you're super strong so weight limitations mean nothing to you.

Finally, Half Plate - 15 + Dex (max +2). If you can get Half Plate, and you have Medium Armor Proficiency, of course you should equip it. It's the highest, best armor in the category. Oh... well, that is, unless you are stealthy. Half Plate gives Disadvantage on Stealth. So, naturally, if you are a Rogue or the like, Half Plate really wouldn't be your thing. Also, a Rogue - or whoever - with +5 Dex would do just as well with Studded Leather. Half Plate is also 750 gp and weighs 40 lbs, so if you aren't strong, Half Plate may not be your thing. Maybe you should pick something like Breastplate which is half the weight.

Heavy

Ringmail - Probably the most useless armor in the game. It is only good for those with 10 Dex, who don't sneak, ever, and if they are desperate and have nothing better in the Heavy Category that they can choose from. It only provides 14 AC, period, and it provides Disadvantage on Stealth. It is more expensive than all the Light Armors, and almost as expensive as a Chain Shirt, which weighs half as much. This said, some DM's will allow Druids to be equipped with Ringmail, but again, like Studded, only on rare occassions where the rings are made of bone or something natural. This CAN provide an upgrade to a strong Druid who chooses Heavy Armor Proficiency Feat at level 4, letting them go from Hide (at 12 AC without Dex bonus) to Ringmail (at 14 AC). Again, other than this, there isn't much use for Ringmail other than as a "I'm a desperate person who needs SOME protection on the battlefield."

Chain mail - Requires Strength 13 just to be able to wear it and Disadvantage on Stealth plus doesn't allow Dex bonus to be added. So, if you have a Dex bonus, Half Plate is better for sure, except that Chain mail costs WAY less. Starting clerics and fighters are given the option of having Chain Mail IF they have proficiency and Strength to be able to wear it (because not all clerics have Heavy armor proficiency, and many may not have the Strength 13 needed). So, naturally, if you have the prerequisites, it's a good starting armor for clerics and fighters. Paladins better start with Strength 13, at least, because their starting armor is Chain mail. Period. So, it is actually, typically, considered to be the true starting armor for heavier armor types, like fighter, cleric and paladin. Then they upgrade from here to bigger and better armor, like Splint or Plate.

Splint and Plate - Pretty much the same except AC is 17 for Splint and 18 for Plate. Why? Because it's the best. Both require Strength 15 to wear, so you have to be pretty strong. Also, if you have at least Dex +2, Half Plate protects just as well as Splint and weighs less. So, why not Half Plate instead of Splint? Well, if you don't have good Dex, Splint is better. Also, Splint costs a lot less than Half Plate. Plate, of course, is hard to beat in terms of defense. Even if you have high Dex, you won't beat AC 18 that Plate provides, so it is, if you can wear it, superior to all other armors and the highest armor you can get in the game short of magical armor. It, of course, gives Disadvantage on Stealth, as does Splint, so Rogues and other stealthy types won't like it, but it's not for them anyway. It's for your super tough fighter/paladin tanks.

So, why did I think Ragnarok was talking about Chain Mail? Because clerics shouldn't be starting with Chain Shirts. Their starting gear is either Chain Mail, Scale Mail or Leather depending on what fits your cleric best.

Why would druids wear Hide and not Studded? Because most Studded Leather has metal. Hide does not. Why not Chain Shirts for druids? Druids hate metal armor. It's taboo. Chain Shirts are made of metal.

Why is cost important even if not buying? Because you can sell more expensive armor and keep stuff that isn't as expensive if it offers the same or almost the same protection.

But what about Githyanki and Dwarf Wizards? Why limit Druids to no metal but not limit Githyanki and Dwarf Wizards?

Last I checked, Dwarves don't get armor proficiency based on race, nor do they get Shield proficiency, so I'm not sure what you mean by this. Last I checked, Githyanki get Light and Medium Armor proficiencies, but also not Shields. Yes, a Githyanki Wizard could have Medium Armor and that's pretty tough, but Githyanki have other limitations (or they don't have certain special abilities) that other races don't have (or have), which balances it out. Yes, a Githyanki Wizard can be pretty hard to kill with a Half Plate armor and lots of spells. That is true. However, it doesn't unbalance the game because Gith don't have +1 to every ability score, like humans, or Dwarven Resilience, or Dark Vision, or Keen Senses, or Trance, or Fey Ancestry, or whatever the other races have that they don't have. Besides, for a Wizard who knows Mage Armor, having armor proficiency at all really isn't that big of a deal. A Wizard with Mage Armor can get 13 AC + Dexterity Modifier for up to 8 hours at a time as long as they aren't wearing armor at all. So, a mage with +2 or +3 Dex can have just as good or better AC than someone with Scale or Half Plate Armor. So is the Gith ability to have Medium Armor as a Wizard really all that great?

So, unlimit druids so they can wear any armor and what do you get? A spellcaster with high damage spells who can heal, be a tank, turn into an animal and gain extra HP, and who can get up close and deal a lot of damage in close range combat. Limit their armor and suddenly druids are forced to support rather than be the have-all-be-all. If all they get is a max of 14 AC for armor because they won't wear anything with metal, suddenly, druids ain't so quick to run up close and be the focus of every enemy's attention. If they have a shield, sure, they might get to 16 AC, and that's pretty good, but it's still not something like 18-20 like you can get with fighters, clerics, paladins and the like. They might even be high dex druids wearing Leather instead, but it still limits their AC to roughly 16 or 17 at the most.

THAT is why they should be limited.

Vortex138 #811605 14/03/22 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Vortex138
2. I think I mentioned this when the druid patch came out, but remember, druids cannot where metal armor of any sort (hence the suggestion above). If they do, they lose all spells and benefits of being a druid. The only exception to this is he scimitar, which due to it's design as looking like a crescent moon, is allowed by the circles. (same reasoning as the sickle) Druids cannot wear scale armor, unless it is dragon scale, and the idea of wearing metal gloves or boots is just wrong to a druid.

This is simply untrue for 5e. Druids "will not" not "cannot" wear metal armor.

https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016

WebSpyder #811616 14/03/22 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by WebSpyder
Originally Posted by Vortex138
2. I think I mentioned this when the druid patch came out, but remember, druids cannot where metal armor of any sort (hence the suggestion above). If they do, they lose all spells and benefits of being a druid. The only exception to this is he scimitar, which due to it's design as looking like a crescent moon, is allowed by the circles. (same reasoning as the sickle) Druids cannot wear scale armor, unless it is dragon scale, and the idea of wearing metal gloves or boots is just wrong to a druid.

This is simply untrue for 5e. Druids "will not" not "cannot" wear metal armor.

https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-march-2016

Right. Again, subject to interpretation. "Will not" could mean that if you do, you are not a druid anymore. Like it was said, if you eat meat, you aren't really a vegan anymore. So, if you are a druid and wear metal, you aren't a druid anymore.

It has been a staple in D&D that druids don't wear metal, it's true. As I pointed out, allowing it does make the class even more OP.

That's why I said there should be some sort of consequences for a druid using metal. Either don't allow it or have other druids viewing your character poorly because you're using something that is taboo.

Think of it like a Christian walking into a church with a Satanic symbol. All the Christians would start freaking out and calling for an exorcism.

Last edited by GM4Him; 14/03/22 10:13 PM.
Vortex138 #811617 14/03/22 10:14 PM
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Because, as that Sage Advice pointed out, it's DM's discretion – I'm more than happy with Larian imposing some restrictions on druids wearing metal armor. I assume we'll get some dragon scale armor at some point anyway (or Ankheg!)



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Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Because, as that Sage Advice pointed out, it's DM's discretion – I'm more than happy with Larian imposing some restrictions on druids wearing metal armor. I assume we'll get some dragon scale armor at some point anyway (or Ankheg!)

Same. The bottom line is that hide armor is virtually worthless if they don't restrict druids to nonmetal armor.

GM4Him #811626 15/03/22 12:21 AM
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Wow, didn't expect this to take off like it did , or go down this turn. Well, the point I was trying to make and I kind of agree with GM4Him, is that with a little imagination, yes, you can have medium armors that are not made of metal. Perhaps they need to be specially made (hint, hint, HINT!!!! Crafting! :D), or purchased at specific vendors, and perhaps only available to Druids.(just as some other armor would be available only to other classes, like the Githyanki armor). I've always seen it as Druids can use some metals, mainly the pure ones, iron, gold, silver, etc. Hell, some sickles are made from electrum, which is gold and silver mix (representing the sun and moon combined). Steel is the problem because it is essentially processed and combined with other ores, so it wouldn't be considered "pure" any longer. Just my opinion though.

Vortex138 #811629 15/03/22 12:50 AM
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Many games that I've watched and played in have allowed druids to craft or have crafted equivalent armours of different types, made from natural materials - using the armour plates of a creature the party killed to create a functional breastplate, or similar things. Some races (lizardfolk) have a natural crafting trait that, while limited, can be extrapolated by a thoughtful DM to allow a druid to advance the non-magical armour track a little further. A video game allowing crafting of mundane armours out of natural resources, could, in the right circumstance and if it's done carefully, actually work really well.

While the sage advice is worth listening to, in tabletop play, I do feel that in a video game situation that's a level of DM-to-Player flexibility that it simply can't handle, save in very specifically designed circumstances, so, for practicality, druids should simply be debarred from equipping metal-wrought armours and shields, at a base mechanical level.

Vortex138 #811635 15/03/22 03:49 AM
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Now to play the devil's advocate.

You know, I honestly don't restrict druids myself. The irony is that I even ignored the metal bit when I wrote my fan fic. 😁

Wynari Nell, a Circle of the Moon druid, winds up wearing armor with metal, and I don't have anyone question it. Didn't even cross my mind when I was writing it, to be honest.

Ahhh! Inconsistency and immersion breaking! Writer's sin committed.

Some think it's stupid that druids can't wear metal since metal can also be found in nature. They do feel that it's a stretch... That D&D just does it to limit druids in some way, not because it really makes sense. I like what Vortex said, though. This makes sense, "I've always seen it as Druids can use some metals, mainly the pure ones, iron, gold, silver, etc. Hell, some sickles are made from electrum, which is gold and silver mix (representing the sun and moon combined). Steel is the problem because it is essentially processed and combined with other ores, so it wouldn't be considered "pure" any longer."

But like Niara said, how you gonna implement that in a video game?

Vortex138 #811636 15/03/22 04:07 AM
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In my opinion in earlier editions it was purely a mechanism to give the classes some differentiation, like how clerics would only use bludgeoning weapons. I don't mind it, with steel or other worked metal being representative of the 'industrial world' that druids abhor. A bit like Saruman vs Radagast (yes, I know they're both technically wizards, but if you listen to WotC talk about druids they basically stem from the same mythology as wizards).



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Vortex138 #811643 15/03/22 06:50 AM
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I go back and forth, honestly. If you don't limit druids to non-metal, Hide armor is pretty much useless, as RagnarokCzD pointed out. Why buy Hide when Studded Leather is better? Hide armor's sole purpose is really druids.

On the other hand, do we care? Hide armor's never really been that great. It's kinda like ringmail. Would we miss it if they got rid of it in BG3? Is the druid armor limitation really a big deal?

In my mind, it's not as important as other class elements that are missing from the game.

But then... It is one of the things that makes druids unique. It gives them more identity. It explains why Kagha, Halsin and ALL the druids don't have better armor and why their leather armor is more, well, nature-y.

So... in the end, I'd probably say it should be added to the game. Is it a big deal if they don't? Meh. But If they don't, armor like Hide is totally useless.

Last edited by GM4Him; 15/03/22 06:50 AM.
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