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Seems to me that core of this problem is once again in that your mindset is just set in wrong direction ...

You say: I use this item therefore i have to do *this*.
I say: I do *this* therefore i will be much more effective with this item.

There are no loops to hop through ... if item you get dont suits your playstyle, why not simply use different one?
To achieve this option you obviously need lots of items tho. smile

Originally Posted by etonbears
but I still don't want to be tripping over items that only work on a Thursday afternoon while standing on one leg and wearing pink ...
This on the other hand is more problematic ...
It seems like one of persons who mind even just the existence of something ...

How can you work out with that anyway?
You hope they will be gone i hope they stay in ... the only certainity is that one of us will be dissapointed in the end.
And i would dare to say themat there is no surprise that we both hope hard ot will be the other one. :-/


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Weapons in BG3 be like, "Dragon's Clasp Axe - If your target is on fire, you deal an extra 1d4 damage.
Weapons in D&D be like, "Longsword of Life Stealing - When you roll a 20 on an attack roll, that target takes an extra 3d6 necrotic damage. You gain temporary hit points equal to the extra damage dealt."

BG3 = you need to first set an enemy on fire, THEN you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.
D&D = there is a chance with each attack roll that you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.

There's a huge difference here. BG3, you have to meet the right conditions. D&D, you always have a chance to achieve success with the item. You don't have to first do this, then do that. It just either happens or it doesn't. (Some exceptions do apply, naturally.)

You say, "Well, just don't use it if it doesn't suit you." We say, "But they're ALL like that. There are very few items in this game currently that are like the Longsword of Life Stealing or other more normal D&D weapons. So, we either are forced to take extra steps to make a weapon more effective, being forced into using DOS surface mechanics and gimmicks just to take advantage of an item, or we don't use special items at all. There is no in between.

I don't mind weapons like Mourning Frost as long as there are also weapons like Sword of Wounding or Vicious Weapons, or Sun Blades, or Sunguard Shields. Weapons we don't have to do this and then that and then this and then that to use effectively.

And, I think part of the issue is that it's EA. Everything is jammed into Act 1. If these items were all spread out over the course of the entire game, people wouldn't have an issue with them as much. I honestly like most of the items in the game if they tweaked them a bit and spread them out.

Example: Paleoak Staff versus Nature's Snare. They give you both in EA. In my opinion, Nature's Snare makes Paleoak seem lame. Why? You can get Nature's Snare relatively easy, and its ability seems better than Paleoak. And yet, Paleoak is the reward for completing a Druid Quest.

Now, if they didn't let you acquire Nature's Snare in EA, and you only got Paleoak as a quest reward, then Paleoak would seem more rewarding because you did this big quest and you got a cool staff from it that isn't upstaged by an easier to get staff that is also Druid related.

OR Nature's Snare would be fine to get first if it wasn't as OP as it is compared to Paleoak. Nature's Snare is easy to get, so it should be something like a +1 Quarterstaff but only for Druids to wield, or something like that. Maybe give it the ability to cast Ensnare once per day if a target fails a Dex DC 13, or something really not that effective because it's an easy to get item. Then, when you get Paleoak, give it +1 to Attack and Damage plus the ability to walk on vines without getting entangled plus making it so that Entangle is always a prepared spell plus make it so that only a druid can use it, and NOW it becomes a much more awesome Druid weapon and a great reward for completing a fairly major questline.

Value. It's all about value. If you are constantly getting tons and tons of items with special abilities and traits, none of them feel special. They all feel mundane and lame because you are practically tripping over magic items at every turn.

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My take on it is this.

TSR and WotC have been creating magic items for this game for about 50 years. Larian wants to make an original piece or two? I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is Larian basically discarding the DM Guide magical item list in favor of these if/then statement items that only appeal to geeky programers. Yes, we want more magical items in the game, that doesn't mean we want all the magical items in the game replaced with home brew DoS style magic items. Just a slight increase in generation. More plain Jane +1 items would even be acceptable. It just sucks when you know that there are critters out there that can only be hit with certain types of weaponry, and you don't have it. Maybe some bags of holding? Things that are staples of the genre, not gimicy wonder items never before seen in any D&D realm.

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There is expression in Czech ...
"Ask what you want.
I'll answer what I want." smile

I think the same is aplicable even here ...
Ask for anything you want ...
What Larian want will give us. smile

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 15/03/22 04:12 PM.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
There is expression in Czech ...
"Ask what you want.
I'll answer what I want." smile

I think the same is aplicable even here ...
Ask for anything you want ...
What Larian want will give us. smile

Yes. Finally. You understand where I'm coming from. That is the whole point of this forum. Ask for whatever you want and hope they listen. Now you understand where I've been coming from this whole time with every post. I hope we get more D&D 5e everything so I keep asking for it even though you resist it just about every time. You debate and argue and fight, as if you need to defend BG3 against me, but I'm just asking and hoping they change the things me and others like me are asking them to change. We're not demanding, fighting, pushing or shoving 30+ feet into lava. We're just saying, "Hey. I don't like this thing you've done. It would be, in my opinion, better if you did XYZ instead. Here's why I think this."

It's not about who is right or wrong. It's just about asking and hoping. That's it. Nothing more. That's it. Now let's stop debating on every thread. I'll give my opinion. You give yours. K? K. Great. Nice chat.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
But they're ALL like that.
Oh please ...
Who are you fooling?

https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Club+of+Hill+Giant+Strength
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Corellon's+Grace
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Everburn+Blade
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Faithbreaker
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Jagged+Spear
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Light+of+Creation
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Loviatar's+Scourge
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Nature's+Snare
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Paleoak
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Rain+Dancer
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Shattered+Flail
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sorrow
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sussur+Dagger
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sussur+Greatsword
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sussur+Sickle
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Staff+of+Arcane+Blessing
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Staff+of+Crones
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sword+of+Justice
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Watcher's+Guide
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Vision+of+the+Absolute
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Worgfang
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Xyanyde
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Doom+Axe
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Ritual+Dagger
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Ritual+Axe
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Sword+of+Screams
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Deep+Delver
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Giantbreaker
https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Mourning+Frost

Plus every single +1 weapon in the game ... plus everything added in Patch 7 wich is still not added there. -_-
(Lightning weapons for example.)
All those weapons works exactly as you wanted ... either "all the time" or "you get some bonus, based on random roll".

None of them is conditioned ... and none of them require you to use any other action to reach its full potential ...


Originally Posted by GM4Him
being forced into using DOS surface mechanics
There is no way to cast Fire-Chromatic Orb without surface effect ... and that may set your enemy burning (wich effectively makes it strongest).

There is also this: https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Gloves+of+Flint+and+Steel
As i allready told you few dozen times, wich makes ALL and every fire damage you do have chance to "set your target alight" ... no surface mechanics, no gimmics, no additional action ... just Magic Equipment that makes certain type of your attack even more effective.
And as a side effect, it also makes pasively attacks of another member of your party more effective, with no additional work, nor action, nor any forcing to use surface mechanics. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
There is no in between.
Except i just listed it. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
I don't mind weapons like Mourning Frost
I do honestly ... i cant figure any way to use that staff effectively. :-/

I can imagine some uses if there will be Transmuted Spell metamagic in full release ...
(When you cast a spell that deals a type of damage from the following list, you can spend 1 sorcery point to change that damage type to one of the other listed types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, thunder.)
In that case, Mourning frost in hands of Silver, or White Dragonblood Sorcerer ... could be really interesting choice!

But still i cant help the feeling that Frostbite debuff should be stacking, and last at least 2 turns ...
That way you would get something more interesting than 1damage, if you use Frost spell. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Weapons we don't have to do this and then that and then this and then that to use effectively.
I wonder wich of those i listed dont provide that. O_o
I mean, there is nothing wrong about wanting your favorite toys ... i just dont see why are you strugling so hard to admit it, while its sooo obvious. laugh


If these items were all spread out over the course of the entire game[/quote]
I hope not ...
It would be quite lame having to wait until end of Act II. or even worse Act III. to get some seriously interesting artefacts. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Example: Paleoak Staff versus Nature's Snare. They give you both in EA. In my opinion, Nature's Snare makes Paleoak seem lame. Why? You can get Nature's Snare relatively easy, and its ability seems better than Paleoak. And yet, Paleoak is the reward for completing a Druid Quest.
Well ... "lame" ... it depends on your prefferences ...

Acording to Fextralife Wiki (and for the record i dont thrust it in this) Paleoak is actualy the only Versatile Quarterstaff in game ...
IF that is true (and i repeat, i believe its not, but didnt check), then Paleoak is certainly MUCH better, just for this atribute alone ... since you can also use your shield while wielding it. laugh
(remember, the staff is reward for Druid PC only ... dunno if it will be accesible for Druid companion, nor if we even get any)

As for effects ...
Paleoak makes you imune to Ensnare, you dont get damage, nor imobilize, nor difficiult terain ...
We can of course ask how usefull this even is when you get the weapon only in case when you no longer shall fight any druids ... but i think it might be quite important buff in Shadowlands, concidering datamined enemies. wink
Nature's Snare on the other hand, have nothing to compare this with. laugh

The other effect ... roots.
That is purely matter of prefferences:
Nature's Snare gives them passively ... wich is + ... it also gives them randomly ... wich is -
Paleoak use costs Action ... wich it - ... but it also create difficiult terain and can affect multiple creatures ... wich is + ... sadly i cant find on wiki if this effect is somehow limited per S/L rest, or fight ... or if you can use it at will. :-/

I dont think there is any way to say that one of them is just better. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Now, if they didn't let you acquire Nature's Snare in EA, and you only got Paleoak as a quest reward, then Paleoak would seem more rewarding because you did this big quest and you got a cool staff from it that isn't upstaged by an easier to get staff that is also Druid related.

OR Nature's Snare would be fine to get first if it wasn't as OP as it is compared to Paleoak. Nature's Snare is easy to get, so it should be something like a +1 Quarterstaff but only for Druids to wield, or something like that. Maybe give it the ability to cast Ensnare once per day if a target fails a Dex DC 13, or something really not that effective because it's an easy to get item. Then, when you get Paleoak, give it +1 to Attack and Damage plus the ability to walk on vines without getting entangled plus making it so that Entangle is always a prepared spell plus make it so that only a druid can use it, and NOW it becomes a much more awesome Druid weapon and a great reward for completing a fairly major questline.
I think i have an interesting alternative ...
What IF ... Paleoak would be empowered version of Nature's Snare?

Just imagine ... you help Kagha and everything ... now:
- If you have Nature's Snare on you, Kagha asks for it ... and turn it into Paleoak (note this version would have all effects of both Paleoak and Nature's Snare ... meaning: AoE snare spellcast, imune to roots, and chance to root your enemy when attacking)
- If you never looted Nature's Snare, Kagha asks some of Druids to fetch it ... wich would also explain why Findal was there in the tunel, he has ben send for Nature's Snare even first time.
- If you sold it somewhere in the grove, Kagha would ask for the staff ...
- If you sold it outside the grove ... well, your loss pal. laugh (Nah, just kidding ... they could aswell make new one.)

Anyway it would work in my opinion MUCH better than Kagha just making the staff out of thin air. :-/

Or there is lazy solution of course:

Paleoak as reward for Druid ...
Nature's Snare as reward for everyone else ... i mean curently the quest ends up effectively unrewarded, if you are not druid (unless you got a deal with Zevlor, then at least he rewards you ... but he does the same even if you siply kill Kagha so ...) wich makes Kagha incredibly ungrateful, for someone who has ben just redeemed from her worst misstake in whole life. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Value. It's all about value. If you are constantly getting tons and tons of items with special abilities and traits, none of them feel special. They all feel mundane and lame because you are practically tripping over magic items at every turn.
I dunno ... i would rather be tripping over magic items at every turn, while i actualy use every fifth of them ...
Then waiting several dozen of hours for another magic items, that dont suits my needs. laugh

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 15/03/22 05:13 PM.

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When magical items - like any other sort of item - are in abundance, they're less special. Slapping on a bunch of conditional attributes doesn't help.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
What IF ... Paleoak would be empowered version of Nature's Snare?

Just imagine ... you help Kagha and everything ... now:
- If you have Nature's Snare on you, Kagha asks for it ... and turn it into Paleoak (note this version would have all effects of both Paleoak and Nature's Snare ... meaning: AoE snare spellcast, imune to roots, and chance to root your enemy when attacking)
- If you never looted Nature's Snare, Kagha asks some of Druids to fetch it ... wich would also explain why Findal was there in the tunel, he has ben send for Nature's Snare even first time.
- If you sold it somewhere in the grove, Kagha would ask for the staff ...
- If you sold it outside the grove ... well, your loss pal. laugh (Nah, just kidding ... they could aswell make new one.)

Anyway it would work in my opinion MUCH better than Kagha just making the staff out of thin air. :-/

Okay, I think this idea is incredibly cool actually. I think the idea of getting story-based upgrades to items as rewards for quests would be plain awesome. I'm not sure if it would really work for BG3 because the typical system for crpgs is that you sell whatever items you don't need, so justifying getting back an item you sold or dropped so it can be upgraded could potentially strain credulity. But if this or any other game could pull that off, I would be very excited about it. That's a great way to make items feel special.

This is a tangent now, but I actually think that a game with limited weapons that you can't sell, which recieve story-relevant upgrades that are reflected as you advance would be really cool and make weapons feel special. In Assassin's Creed Odyssey, I was always excited to level up the spear of Leonidas and see it change and evolve. And I loved that weapons took on different appearances in Assassin's Creed Valhalla as you upgraded them as well.

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Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
What IF ... Paleoak would be empowered version of Nature's Snare?

Just imagine ... you help Kagha and everything ... now:
- If you have Nature's Snare on you, Kagha asks for it ... and turn it into Paleoak (note this version would have all effects of both Paleoak and Nature's Snare ... meaning: AoE snare spellcast, imune to roots, and chance to root your enemy when attacking)
- If you never looted Nature's Snare, Kagha asks some of Druids to fetch it ... wich would also explain why Findal was there in the tunel, he has ben send for Nature's Snare even first time.
- If you sold it somewhere in the grove, Kagha would ask for the staff ...
- If you sold it outside the grove ... well, your loss pal. laugh (Nah, just kidding ... they could aswell make new one.)

Anyway it would work in my opinion MUCH better than Kagha just making the staff out of thin air. :-/

Okay, I think this idea is incredibly cool actually. I think the idea of getting story-based upgrades to items as rewards for quests would be plain awesome. I'm not sure if it would really work for BG3 because the typical system for crpgs is that you sell whatever items you don't need, so justifying getting back an item you sold or dropped so it can be upgraded could potentially strain credulity. But if this or any other game could pull that off, I would be very excited about it. That's a great way to make items feel special.

This is a tangent now, but I actually think that a game with limited weapons that you can't sell, which recieve story-relevant upgrades that are reflected as you advance would be really cool and make weapons feel special. In Assassin's Creed Odyssey, I was always excited to level up the spear of Leonidas and see it change and evolve. And I loved that weapons took on different appearances in Assassin's Creed Valhalla as you upgraded them as well.

I think selling the item should be possible because otherwise you will have people who don't care for an item even upgraded. I hate having items stuck in my inventory forever. That isn't to say I think it's a bad idea, just that those who sell the quest item should be tasked with recovering it if they wish to upgrade it. Either the merchant resells the item back to you at the price it was bought, or the player is given a small quest with a small exp reward for recovering the item needing upgrade, which will compensate them to a small degree for the extra monetary loss. Hell, the quest giver could even direct you to a nearby merchant who will sell the item even if it isn't the one you sold it to. Merchants do buy and sell amongst themselves after all.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Seems to me that core of this problem is once again in that your mindset is just set in wrong direction ...

You say: I use this item therefore i have to do *this*.
I say: I do *this* therefore i will be much more effective with this item.

There are no loops to hop through ... if item you get dont suits your playstyle, why not simply use different one?
To achieve this option you obviously need lots of items tho. smile

Originally Posted by etonbears
but I still don't want to be tripping over items that only work on a Thursday afternoon while standing on one leg and wearing pink ...
This on the other hand is more problematic ...
It seems like one of persons who mind even just the existence of something ...

How can you work out with that anyway?
You hope they will be gone i hope they stay in ... the only certainity is that one of us will be dissapointed in the end.
And i would dare to say themat there is no surprise that we both hope hard ot will be the other one. :-/

I'm perfectly happy to have lots of magic items ( you can always sell them ), I just prefer there to be some reasonable justification as to WHY any wizard would have gone to the trouble and expense of actually creating an item, which is not always clear in BG3.

Perhaps Larian can create a back-story in the description for their more unusual magic items...

"The infamous 'Ragnarok Non Sequitur' vowed to be the first master artificer in the history of Faerun to produce only items with unique characteristics."
"His resulting career-spanning works, the so-called 'Non-Fungible Trivialities' ( or NFTs ), were widely hailed as beautiful, highly collectible, while simultaneously being almost entirely useless for any purpose."
"The Temporally-Restricted, Colour-Activated, Unbalanced Winkle-Picker you hold in your hand is one such NFT".

I think I should send that to Swen; he'd probably have it included in patch 8 smile

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It should also be remembered that more magic equals more danger, or the magic would have already eliminated the danger. So more monsters, more monsters that use magic, and deadlier higher level threats. If your character is literally tripping over magical items in the wild, those magical items are there because the previous owners died. From the sounds of how many magical items are floating around, perhaps an eye tyrant should be wandering the area.

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Originally Posted by etonbears
I just prefer there to be some reasonable justification as to WHY any wizard would have gone to the trouble and expense of actually creating an item, which is not always clear in BG3.
Could you provide some example?

Since they all seems perfectly reasonable to me. O_o

Maybe except those gloves that gives you free jump when ypu sprint ... those should most certainly be boots in my honest opiion. Or belt that wouldp be also acceptable.


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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Weapons in BG3 be like, "Dragon's Clasp Axe - If your target is on fire, you deal an extra 1d4 damage.
Weapons in D&D be like, "Longsword of Life Stealing - When you roll a 20 on an attack roll, that target takes an extra 3d6 necrotic damage. You gain temporary hit points equal to the extra damage dealt."

BG3 = you need to first set an enemy on fire, THEN you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.
D&D = there is a chance with each attack roll that you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.

There's a huge difference here. BG3, you have to meet the right conditions. D&D, you always have a chance to achieve success with the item. You don't have to first do this, then do that. It just either happens or it doesn't. (Some exceptions do apply, naturally.)

This sums up pretty well what I don't like in BG3's items.
Too many items are like that.

There's also too many balance issues imo.

In exemple the Club of Hill Giant Strenght that is absolutely weak for a "giant strenght" item... It would be better if this 1D4 weapon was a +1 weapon and if the strenght was set to 20 rather than 15. Weak damages + decent % to hit + strong strenght modifier. Now this weapon just has nothing.
On the other hand you have the Saphirre Spark that makes your Gale absolutely overpowered.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 17/03/22 01:01 PM.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Weapons in BG3 be like, "Dragon's Clasp Axe - If your target is on fire, you deal an extra 1d4 damage.
Weapons in D&D be like, "Longsword of Life Stealing - When you roll a 20 on an attack roll, that target takes an extra 3d6 necrotic damage. You gain temporary hit points equal to the extra damage dealt."

BG3 = you need to first set an enemy on fire, THEN you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.
D&D = there is a chance with each attack roll that you can acquire the benefits of the weapon.

There's a huge difference here. BG3, you have to meet the right conditions. D&D, you always have a chance to achieve success with the item. You don't have to first do this, then do that. It just either happens or it doesn't. (Some exceptions do apply, naturally.)

This sums up pretty well what I don't like in BG3's items.
Too many items are like that.

There's also too many balance issues imo.

In exemple the Club of Hill Giant Strenght that is absolutely weak for a "giant strenght" item... It would be better if this 1D4 weapon was a +1 weapon and if the strenght was set to 20 rather than 15. Weak damages + decent % to hit + strong strenght modifier. Now this weapon just has nothing.
On the other hand you have the Saphirre Spark that makes your Gale absolutely overpowered.

You know, we don't always agree on everything, but every time you post, I find myself wanting to see what you have to say. And here, again, spot on, especially about Gale's Sapphire Spark. I'm REALLY worried about this game once they lift the level cap. Wizards are going to reign supreme in this game. People just don't see the raging storm that's coming. I don't know how Larian is going to reign it all in. We are going to see some absolutely ridiculous stuff once we're at level 5 and beyond. That's the path we're on presently, anyway.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm REALLY worried about this game once they lift the level cap. Wizards are going to reign supreme in this game. People just don't see the raging storm that's coming. I don't know how Larian is going to reign it all in. We are going to see some absolutely ridiculous stuff once we're at level 5 and beyond. That's the path we're on presently, anyway.

Kind of like how Mages in BG2 absolutely wrecked the game once they could access even limited crowd control and AoE spells? Never mind timestops, wishes,...

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Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm REALLY worried about this game once they lift the level cap. Wizards are going to reign supreme in this game. People just don't see the raging storm that's coming. I don't know how Larian is going to reign it all in. We are going to see some absolutely ridiculous stuff once we're at level 5 and beyond. That's the path we're on presently, anyway.

Kind of like how Mages in BG2 absolutely wrecked the game once they could access even limited crowd control and AoE spells? Never mind timestops, wishes,...

Wizards are supposed to be tougher at higher levels. They are supposed to have AoE spells that do serious damage. That's their role. However, what limits them are things like position on the map and their spell slots and the fact that they should only be able to cast one spell per round. Also, items don't typically increase a wizard's potential. You don't normally have things like, "If your enemy is on fire, you get to deal an extra 1d4 fire damage," or "if your enemy is standing in water, you do an extra whatever amount of lightning damage if you use lightning attack."

What I'm seeing is wizards will be able to:

1. Cast all their spells in every battle and then long rest after without restraint to replenish all their spells for the next fight.
2. Items that increase the wizard's potential.
3. The ability to cast Misty Step as a Bonus action so the wizard can maneuver easier into a good position and then cast Fireball or Lightning Bolt more effectively because you can cast a Bonus action spell and an Action spell in the same round, regardless of level - thus making wizards teleporting high-powered damage dealers who can keep away from melee attackers pretty effectively. I mean, you can use Dash and run your fighter right up to a wizard to get into melee range to try to force the wizard to use Disengage or Misty Step so he can't cast Fireball on your party - this you can do in normal D&D - but in BG3, if you try this maneuver, the wizard can literally just Misty or Far Step away from you at least 30 feet, move an additional 30 feet, to put you at least 60 feet away so you have to Dash again to get up to him, and then throw a Fireball at you in the same turn - or whatever the wizard feels like throwing at you. Maybe Magic Missiles at Level 3 spell slot so he's sure to hit you with 5d4+5 damage with 0 chance of missing you...
4. Or how about this: You run up to the wizard, he casts Enlarge and positions himself so he can shove you 15 feet of a ledge for a 1-Hit KO. Shove is not an Action. It's a Bonus. So you, the Strength 18 Barbarian with +7 Athletics goes up against a Wizard who has just cast Enlarge on himself to become a Large character. Now the Wizard gets advantage on Strength checks, which Shove is a Strength check. You roll a 9+7=16 Yeah! Pretty good roll, right? Well, too bad. Weakling Wizard with Strength has 0 Athletics, but he rolls a 7 and a 17. 17 wins! Shoves you, the Strength 18 Barbarian, off the cliff so you drop 300 feet to your death. All done in 1 round because Wizard can cast a spell as an Action and Shove someone 15+ feet as a Bonus action, both in the same round.

How do I know that's a potential? Because the dang Duergar do it to me at Grymforge in the temple entrance fight with Thrinn and Nere. Lae'zel was 30 feet away. Duergar Enlarges and Shoves. Bye bye Lae'zel. You had Strength 18 and Athletics + 7, but Duergar just enlarged AND shoved in the same round, hurling you 30+ feet into lava.

Wait until a 10 strength wizard does that later in the game to you. Oh yeah. REALLY worried about wizards in this game.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by etonbears
I just prefer there to be some reasonable justification as to WHY any wizard would have gone to the trouble and expense of actually creating an item, which is not always clear in BG3.
Could you provide some example?

Since they all seems perfectly reasonable to me. O_o

Maybe except those gloves that gives you free jump when ypu sprint ... those should most certainly be boots in my honest opiion. Or belt that wouldp be also acceptable.

OK, I'll give an example of one weapon I like, and one I that seems like it's a Non-Fungible Triviality.

The Shattered Flail is something I consider a great magic weapon design. The base item is described as a primitive collection of bones, and it has a low base damage. It has a simple, straightforward hit/damage bonus, but has the potential drawback of Yeenoghu's Gift ( going berserk, attacking randomly ), which is both described in the item text, and learned from the encounter. And, of course, it is used against you before you can acquire it.

The Blooded Greataxe, by contrast, is something I consider a questionable magic weapon design. It is purchased from a merchant, it has no background to explain why it exists ( or what influenced it's maker to create it ), and will be of no use most of the time, as the magic effect only triggers when the weilder has low hit points, which is something most players would seek to avoid. There is probably no "strategy" to use this weapon, rather it is something you would use if you had found nothing better. Even a standard non-magical 2H sword ( also slashing damage, so equivalent ) would be a better choice overall, and would probably cost less to buy from the same merchant.

I haven't bothered to count the number of good designs compared with questionable designs, but I did get the impression while playing that I thought "WTF?" rather more often than I usually do with games.

A little more thought could probably improve many of the items that seem weird/out of place, but there are probably better things for Larian to work on if I'm honest.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
Originally Posted by GM4Him
I'm REALLY worried about this game once they lift the level cap. Wizards are going to reign supreme in this game. People just don't see the raging storm that's coming. I don't know how Larian is going to reign it all in. We are going to see some absolutely ridiculous stuff once we're at level 5 and beyond. That's the path we're on presently, anyway.

Kind of like how Mages in BG2 absolutely wrecked the game once they could access even limited crowd control and AoE spells? Never mind timestops, wishes,...

Wizards are supposed to be tougher at higher levels. They are supposed to have AoE spells that do serious damage. That's their role. However, what limits them are things like position on the map and their spell slots and the fact that they should only be able to cast one spell per round. Also, items don't typically increase a wizard's potential. You don't normally have things like, "If your enemy is on fire, you get to deal an extra 1d4 fire damage," or "if your enemy is standing in water, you do an extra whatever amount of lightning damage if you use lightning attack."

What I'm seeing is wizards will be able to:

1. Cast all their spells in every battle and then long rest after without restraint to replenish all their spells for the next fight.
2. Items that increase the wizard's potential.
3. The ability to cast Misty Step as a Bonus action so the wizard can maneuver easier into a good position and then cast Fireball or Lightning Bolt more effectively because you can cast a Bonus action spell and an Action spell in the same round, regardless of level - thus making wizards teleporting high-powered damage dealers who can keep away from melee attackers pretty effectively. I mean, you can use Dash and run your fighter right up to a wizard to get into melee range to try to force the wizard to use Disengage or Misty Step so he can't cast Fireball on your party - this you can do in normal D&D - but in BG3, if you try this maneuver, the wizard can literally just Misty or Far Step away from you at least 30 feet, move an additional 30 feet, to put you at least 60 feet away so you have to Dash again to get up to him, and then throw a Fireball at you in the same turn - or whatever the wizard feels like throwing at you. Maybe Magic Missiles at Level 3 spell slot so he's sure to hit you with 5d4+5 damage with 0 chance of missing you...
4. Or how about this: You run up to the wizard, he casts Enlarge and positions himself so he can shove you 15 feet of a ledge for a 1-Hit KO. Shove is not an Action. It's a Bonus. So you, the Strength 18 Barbarian with +7 Athletics goes up against a Wizard who has just cast Enlarge on himself to become a Large character. Now the Wizard gets advantage on Strength checks, which Shove is a Strength check. You roll a 9+7=16 Yeah! Pretty good roll, right? Well, too bad. Weakling Wizard with Strength has 0 Athletics, but he rolls a 7 and a 17. 17 wins! Shoves you, the Strength 18 Barbarian, off the cliff so you drop 300 feet to your death. All done in 1 round because Wizard can cast a spell as an Action and Shove someone 15+ feet as a Bonus action, both in the same round.

How do I know that's a potential? Because the dang Duergar do it to me at Grymforge in the temple entrance fight with Thrinn and Nere. Lae'zel was 30 feet away. Duergar Enlarges and Shoves. Bye bye Lae'zel. You had Strength 18 and Athletics + 7, but Duergar just enlarged AND shoved in the same round, hurling you 30+ feet into lava.

Wait until a 10 strength wizard does that later in the game to you. Oh yeah. REALLY worried about wizards in this game.

1- Pretty much the same as you could do in BG1 and BG2, where resting was unrestricted. At least now you need supplies.

2- Been there, done that in previous BG games also. The sheer quantity of wands, robes, rings, amulets and whatnot strictly for wizards is staggering and transforms them into weapons of mass destruction.

3- This is actually a function of DnD 5E. Yes, the wizard is made now so he is able to get out of harms way really fast. But I think they were intended to be this way. 5E wizards have had many of their spells nerfed but they are now much more evasive, with bonus actions now and the ability to cast 2 spells per round. The thing I do agree with you on that argument is the Misty Step spell: I think it should maybe be of a higher level and not as a bonus action. The wizard should not be able to flee and attack in the same round. Again, a product of 5E.

4- This, I agree with you. Shove is really poorly implemented. It's true that an enlarged person should be able to push a smaller person, even if that person is stronger, just because of the weight difference alone. But just not 30 feet away, that is silly. It's pure Larianism.

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Originally Posted by etonbears
The Blooded Greataxe, by contrast, is something I consider a questionable magic weapon design. It is purchased from a merchant, it has no background to explain why it exists ( or what influenced it's maker to create it )
I see ...

Well i gues if you are here often enough, you should allready expect me to tell you my opinion on the matter. laugh
And if you are not ... well, suprise then. laugh

I see what you mean, its a little odd to imagine someone creating enchantment and thinking for himself like:
"lets make this activate only after wielder of this artefact will be seriously vounded" ...
That much is indeed true. laugh

Personaly i never thought about it like that i gues. O_o

I mean you see in movies so often so it no longer even surprise you (especialy lately) as Hero gets horrible beating, and then he "catch a second breath" and stand up with new power, even stronger than anyone could possibly imagine. laugh
So i guess i allways seen 50% effects as just empowering this "second breat / adrenaline pump up" thing. laugh

But i gues there is allways some head cannon i can do. laugh

Originally Posted by etonbears
and will be of no use most of the time, as the magic effect only triggers when the weilder has low hit points, which is something most players would seek to avoid. There is probably no "strategy" to use this weapon
Are we talking from roleplay, or game mechanic perspective?

Since theese items really intrigued me ... so i experimented a little. smile
And i have found that they are working only for base HP (read as: Temporary HP seems to be ignored for calculation) ... my first idea was Barbarian ... since he allready have quite a lot of HP ... and while Raging meele damages are halved (Wildheart Bear, almost every damage) ... so i wanted to test how will theese items be effective ...
Also it seemed reasonable to me that the more will Barbarian be injured, the more he will be angry, wich would fuel both his strength and resilience ... yes, just like Hulk. laugh

Then i find out (purely by coincidence) that when you aply some Bonus HP ... like 15 Temporary HP from this gloves ... but probably even from other sources, like Armor of Agathys, or False Life ...
You can easily reach almost your regular amoung of HP ... while keeping bonuses from 50% weapons. smile

My gues for strategy is that this is the way. laugh


If my comments bother you, there is nothing easier than telling me to stop.
I mean ... I won't ... but it's easy to say. wink
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I mean you see in movies so often so it no longer even surprise you (especialy lately) as Hero gets horrible beating, and then he "catch a second breath" and stand up with new power, even stronger than anyone could possibly imagine. laugh
So i guess i allways seen 50% effects as just empowering this "second breat / adrenaline pump up" thing. laugh

I agree with you on this one.
An axe that could feel the rage of a wounded fighter through its hands to deal "+xDx damages" would not be so wtf to me, but with a few IF :

- If it was a single item. There are way too many items with this conditions in BG3, including a full set of armor.
- If it was a usefull weapon all the time with an additionnal bonus under specific condition.

Lots of items + gimmicky item does not help to make them "believable". It only serves the gameplay, a gameplay that (as Etonbears said) most players will try to avoid.

A helmet that gives you +1 bonus action (makes your character faster if you're wounded than if you're not)
An amulet that makes you avoid AOO (makes your character faster if you're wounded than if you're not)
Gloves that gives you fire resistance (makes your character more resistant if you're wounded)
An armor that gives you +1 damage (an armor that makes your character hit harder if you're wounded)

A common greataxe that only deals an additionnal +3.5 damages if you're seriously wounded.
2 common shortsword, a common greatsword, a common longsword and a common heavy crossbow that only deals an additionnal +2.5 average damage if you're seriously wounded.

Just get rid of these armors and the greataxe + upgrade the Githyanki weapons and everything would be fine IMO. +1 weapons with +1D4 damages if you're wounded.
Easy explanations (not sure there's a lot of lore yet about githyanki weapons, but I may be wrong), usefull weapons or at least equivalent compared to those you have already found, powerfull weapons if you're ready to handle a hard condition.

I could also have said +1D6 rather than +1D4 because I'd enjoy so much to find +1 weapon dealing +1D4 "element" damage without any conditions in act 1...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 18/03/22 02:01 PM.

French Speaking Youtube Channel with a lot of BG3 videos : https://www.youtube.com/c/maximuuus
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