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In MANY ways i have to agree with the OP. I felt this the first time with the spider lair at first. i personally did this in 2 parts because i came back after going to other games and waiting for patches. After having come back i realize that its the AI itself. it plays a bit 'unrealistic' (i know i know its a game and also a fantasy one but hear me out to help fix this and make this a wonderful game).

After having come back to the game i remembered this area 'slightly' after going down the well in that there were a lot of spiders so i never finished my first time playing (i assumed i was too low level).

This time around i was LV capped at 4. Unless you know that the Matriarch will unleash all these eggs on you in this encounter, the moment they spot you; its pretty clear that you should stealth this and fire bomb the eggs before alerting the actual spiders patrolling or they will all teleport to you and others; thus wreaking non stop poison dmg. THUS DEFEATING THE PURPOSE OF PLAYING THE GAME VS RELOADING ALL THE TIME. But i reloaded about 4x to see how i could only get them to target the barbarian who is my front line.

Thus in your beefiest barb (trying out barb). All the whilst you keep your party FAR FAR AWAY so that they only go for your beefy melee cuz well, ya want those folks in front and it pained me to figure out how without everything rushing past them to go for the lower hp characters. this meant many reloads cuz the game wanted to always go for my other characters even though only ONE was actually doing any dmg. Barb: Just burned yo community down! what ya got?! them: i see a wizard with my 6 int that is 100' away from you, clearly them. erm........ wut?

The AI in this game is VERY UNREALISTIC of enemies running straight through them for guess who? everyone with lower hp! WHY in the world would ANYTHING dash past a beefy guy with a double bladed axe that just killed all your children, neighbors, friends, firebombed your house to the ground; to hit that guy in the back literally doing nothing to avoid conflict (yes i tested mechanics and they meant nothing).

So i reloaded again, kept my party WAY WAY back instead of FAR FAR (yes i kept them back further cuz way way is a legit measurement) if i did not do this, EVERY thing will phase around and make your world unfun. (dont matter if he's the most threatening as they lop spider bits left and right). this other member has far less hp, so we as spiders with insect intelligence (6 for phase), will go for them instead. (cuz we can totally spot the weaker hp folks ofc!) Which is in my HONEST opinion, stupid. if i knew that there is very little challenge. if i DON'T, its nearly a death sentence unless of course once again; i KNOW THIS and use anti toxin on every party member before hand, buff to the max because i KNOW this fight.
Forcing reloads?? Stop all that reload crap please.

This is all COMPLETLY against what DnD is about. Accomplishing things 'another way'. Which i love how you can do with dialogs now. Not everything has to be combat oriented. +1 on that at least.

This was another problem in DOS2 IMO. everything had this 'we have to teleport mojo' to EVERYTHING that IMO FORCED you to build different to counter it by taking TP (teleport) options for EVERY character. then it became more 'BALANCED'????' again; STUPID. FORCING ANY PLAYER INTO TAKING CERTAIN ABILITIES BECAUSE THE GAME ABUSES IT, IS VERY VERY BAD.

Also i think it's the fight itself having simply too many phase spiders. these things traditionally are difficult to begin with. I've played PNP for over 20+ years and i can honestly tell you i probably would never put a matriarch in there with so many offspring at even level 4, let alone the clusters if no one knew about them in the first place.

Fix your AI. If a living creature doesnt want to die, but fight, they are not going to provoke all the time to get to that lower hp guy or 'easier target'. that's not an easier target. its poor AI. i know i wouldnt run through a raging barbarian and 2 other folks forming a line to jump over them and get hit multiple times to get that 1 guy. that just makes 0 sense to me.

In the end does it make it harder? I can literally just rush in there and get an idea then use the magical reload right? not fun. Is the AI in this game as stupid as DOS2? yep.

You're doing great things here though Larian. just remember the roots of DnD. Customization. Choices matter. AI do not always have a box of rocks in thine head. Everything has self preservation sheesh. Be a better GM. i believe in you!

we shouldnt have to make perfect reloading choices or be forced to build a certain way. Thanks for reading :)

Last edited by Dartez; 29/03/22 05:10 AM.
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My experience with this fight is it can go sour pretty quickly, but overall it doesn’t feel as punishing as your description. Wiping out the eggs first is a good idea, although I didn’t manage it in my last playthrough which was actually a lot of fun because your barb can throw the baby spiders at the matriarch. Positioning and push tactics can really help in this encounter, especially using thunderwave to clear the babies. Repelling blast or hitting the web bridges can also really help with some hefty fall damage.



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Two things:

1. Lack of D&D 5e rules makes the game more volatile. Because of all the homebrew, you either learn the gimmicks and defeat enemies easily or you get pounded by the enemies and have to save scum until you figure out what the gimmicks are.

2. Lack of D&D 5e monster/enemy stats. Phase spiders are melee assassins, not teleporting poison spitters. They should suddenly appear and attack. Next round, they attack and disappear. Next round, appear and attack. Once you know you're facing them, common tactic is squishy mages in the middle and tanks outside. Ready action is also vital when fighting them, but there is no ready action in BG3 yet. So, the whole combat with phase spiders goes completely against D&D.

How to beat phase spiders easy in BG3?

When they're on webs, shoot them out from under them. They take fall damage, and the Matriarch takes a lot of it when she falls. Stealth is also your best friend. Have Astarion sit in shadows and snipe enemies and Hide. Wash rinse and repeat. Before triggering the fight snipe the eggs. Also spread out. The poison spit hurts multiple characters at the same time if clumped together. Drink potions as Bonus action and/or have cleric use healing word to keep health up. Focus on minions first. Facing mama when she's pissed and having other spiders still around can be more than enough to wipe you in a single round.

I don't have many problems with any fights in the game now that I know the gimmicks. Only if I refuse to use them can the fights be challenging... Unless I get unlucky with initiative, of course. Had to reload the Gith fight a number of times because of bad initiative. One round, they kill 2 or 3 characters before I can even go once. THAT'S the kind of volatility I'm talking about. You shouldn't have an encounter where you can die before you can even go once simply because of bad initiative rolls. That's frustrating and it needs to be fixed. I want fights to be hard, yes, but not so much so that I have to save scum or apply weird gimmicks. I want solid strategy.

Last edited by GM4Him; 29/03/22 06:03 AM.
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I quite honestly dont understand even single sentence in Dartez post. O_o

I catched something about AI ... something about spiders ... and something about targeting ...
So ... unless i conected the dots incorectly:

I would just like to remind my humble suggestion, that was around here aproximately year ago, where i asked for different behaviour patterns for certain enemy types ...

Few examples:
- For animals like spiders, wolves, (owl)bear
It would make sence to me that they would try to surround our party ... or try to cut us out from separated party member ... while allways attacking to nearest victim, bcs that one in animal eyes should be the most eminent threat!
Either that ... or switching targets based on who damaged it mostly in last round ... i mean even owlbear should understand that Person-A who missed it 3 times isnt such threat as Person-B who just reduced it to 30%. laugh
Last alterntive would be animals targeting largest of nearest target ... reasons are the same ... huge Half-Orc will in animal eyes looks like much more eminent threat, than Halfling who stands right next to him. laugh

- For dumm, but sentient (or semi-sentient) creatures like Goblins, Kobolds, etc ...
It would make sence to me that they should understand that dude in the back with robe is caster ... and therefore all ranged attacks should be aimed at him. But meele Goblins should also try to hold our meele fighters from their ranged troops ... so, to each their own kind of tactics ...

- And for trained AND sentient creatures, like Githyanki, Tiefling soldiers, Flaming Fist, etc ...
I would REALLY love to see some sort of tactical thinking behind their movement ... there is nothing sadder in my eyes than Githyanki who see my mage on the bridge, and runs towards him on foot ... while usualy die in the process ... instead of misty step, void bulb, thundering arrow, etc (there is many possibilities) or the cheapest tactics of them all, simply move out of range and defend themselves. -_-
They should certainly understand value of retreat, regroup and flank ... they should not engage, once odds are strongly against them ... and most importantly, they CERTAINLY SHOULD understand corect order in wich they should eliminate enemies ... its just as much sad when you see Githyanki fighting your Barbarian, while your cleric keep healing him unharmed and unthreatened. -_-

Feel free to hate me for saying this ... but that bridge in githyanki encounter should be in my honest opinion trap for player, not "easy win" feature. laugh

Originally Posted by GM4Him
you either learn the gimmicks and defeat enemies easily or you get pounded by the enemies and have to save scum until you figure out what the gimmicks are
This is just bullshit.


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Ragnarok.

I think you basically hit the nail on the head as far as what the op was trying to say. So it seems like you did understand what he was saying. He was saying that the fights are too hard because the AI is not controlling enemy units the way they probably should be controlled. The spiders, for example, shouldn't be going after the weakest people just like you said.

As far as your comment to me goes, I understand that you disagree, but if I'm not the only one saying it, I have to disagree that it is, using a less vulgar term, rubbish. I gave it perfect example of the gimmicks you can use to easily defeat the spiders.

Interestingly, you kind of gave a gimmick yourself with the Gith. Based on the feedback that I've seen on various posts and forums, I know I'm not alone in saying that the Gith fight is very hard unless you show up totally prepared for it, or you win initiative, or both. Sure, if you have the foresight to approach the fight in such a way where you are going to sneak several people up on the bridge, because you're expecting a fight, long resting beforehand, etc., then yes the fight is not as difficult. But even you admitted that this is only because the AI isn't exactly utilizing the best strategy for them. If it did, the fight would be a whole lot harder whether you're prepared for it ahead of time or not. In other words, the gimmick is that if you expect a fight is coming and you therefore take The High ground, you're most likely going to win the fight.

The problem I have with the game is that unless you find the right gimmick, battles like this one and the spider fight are a whole lot more difficult. Unless you know what to expect or what is coming, you are likely going to get your butt handed to you in many of the fights.

I like challenging fights, but I do not like having to find just the right gimmick to win.

That said, once the level cap is lifted, that changes a lot of things. By the time I reach that fight, I may be level five, which would then make the fight a whole lot less difficult even without a gimmick.

Last edited by GM4Him; 29/03/22 01:05 PM.
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Oh you missunderstand me ...
I never said that "gimmicks" (whatever that is suppose to mean) arent present ... that would be ridiculous.

Sure they "are there" ... sure they are prepared for player to use (that is kinda their only reason for existence laugh ) ...
All i say is that claiming that you "havig to find them is the only way to win" is simply not true.



I dont have any arguments for my claim, only my own experience ...
I finished the game countless times ... i have 787,5 hours played ... and so far i finished every single combat that is there, without abusing any absurd nonsence that is prepared there for me to use ... but i use them now, bcs its fun. laugh

Yes, i admit it i often just nuke Githyanki out of the bridge, bcs killing them for 248th time is simply not fun anymore. laugh
But when i decided to try ... i attacked them, with my whole group on the ground, and i managed to kill them ... it wasnt easy, i never claim such thing, but it was totally possible!

Yes, i admit it i often just shoot the webs under spider matriarch ...
But when i decided to try ... i fighted her face to face ... and quite honestly (since she was hovering in Patch 7) she was not even so challenging for my Barbarian/Wizard/Rogue/Cleric group. frown

And Hag? Dont make me laugh ... unless you stealth around Masks, in wich case those two encounters happens at once and that is BRUTAL ...
Her alone is quite easy, i even think that i rarely (maybe even never) had to heal, when i fight her. laugh


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And you just proved my point.

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I would really like to know how. laugh

I mean ...
You say: "You need to use gimmics to kill enemies in this game."
I say: "No you dont, its easier tho ... but certainly not required."
You say: "You just prooved my point."

Where is any logic in that? laugh

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 29/03/22 02:01 PM.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
But when i decided to try ... i attacked them, with my whole group on the ground, and i managed to kill them ... it wasnt easy, i never claim such thing, but it was totally possible![/spoiler]

Of course it's possible. Maybe it took you one try each time. Good for you. First time I ever faced the Gith patrol - and I know I'm not alone (again, read many similar stories) - I walked under the bridge expecting a fight. I was gearing up for it. I didn't use high ground because I felt that it was broken - what with Advantage/Disadvantage at the time - and I thought, "Okay. Roleplaying my character, he was a cleric who was ready to support Lae'zel if things went wrong. He and the others were nearby so they could have her back. But I tried to position myself well ahead of time. Battle started, as I expected, and the Gith won initiative and killed Lae'zel in the first round before she could go. Then they Misty Stepped to my cleric and wiped him also (or sniped him with a crossbow from a distance). Cut my party in half before I could even take a turn. Had to reload like 8 times before I finally beat it.

That's the normal experience I still have to this day. Unless I use the gimmick and go to the bridge, or unless I win initiative, or I shove several off the edge using insane shove distances, it's pretty much game over. Might as well reload. And that's my whole point. You should not design your combat encounters so that if you lose initiative it's pretty much time to reload. That's too unbalanced and volatile. If bad luck comes your way, you should have a harder time winning, but you shouldn't necessarily have to reload.

Why? Because it's an RPG. I want to be able to play through the game, and if I play through smartly, I don't have to reload. Reloading in an RPG, to people like me, is a cheat. It's like playing Undertale. If I just have enough determination, you'll win because you have the ability to face a fight, travel back in time to a save point, and try again. No. That's not RPGing. That's a video game gimmick. You are essentially gaining intel on an enemy by trying the fight once, dying, reloading and coming back to try something new until you figure out just the right trick to win.

Now, don't get me wrong. If the game goes really badly, and I die, I don't want to have to start all over from scratch. If bad luck is really against me, I'll reload and try again. But I don't want that to be the norm.

Again, Solasta has done this so very well. My current game, I haven't even died once. Not a single character has died. Several times, they've fallen and I've had to use magic or a potion to revive them in time before they die, but none has died and made me reload. Combat encounters are challenging, and sometimes I've thought, "Holy crap! I'm going to lose this fight and I'm going to have to reload," but then I find some way to turn it around and win.

I've even had fights, like I mentioned in a different post about random encounters, where I really thought, "Dang! I should have managed my resources better. Now I'm going to have to reload," only to scrape by and win. THAT'S exciting gameplay. It's not so hard that I'm having to reload a dozen times to find a way to win or to just get freaking lucky and win. Even if things are going wrong, I still might pull through and turn it around.

But here is where you proved my point:

[quote=RagnarokCzD]And Hag? Dont make me laugh ... unless you stealth around Masks, in wich case those two encounters happens at once and that is BRUTAL ...
Her alone is quite easy, i even think that i rarely (maybe even never) had to heal, when i fight her. laugh

How does this prove my point? The gimmick in the hag fight is "unless you stealth around Masks, in wich case those two encounters happens at once and that is BRUTAL..." In other words, unless you do something that is really quite weird from a story perspective - or is really only possible because of janky stealth mechanics - aka long rest and/or sneak around Masks and/or whatever you must do so that both encounters don't happen at once - both encounters together are BRUTAL.

And, frankly, her alone being "quite easy" is maybe your experience, but again me and others are not so on your side with that one either. Her duplicating herself and getting to go several times per turn blasting your characters with spells is not easy. I wonder what strategies you've used to make that fight so easy. Were they gimmicks or legit strategy?

Either way, in order to beat the hag, you can't just face her upstairs with the redcaps, face the Masks and then face the Hag and win all in one story arc, no long resting, event - well, I suppose you COULD, but the fact that it is BRUTAL means that it is a bit too hard. The story arc really doesn't make sense unless you do it all at once. It's weird that she just waits for you to leave her lair, long rest, and then return full strength to fight her, and it's weird that your entire party can sneak past the Masks the way they're positioned unless your party is REALLY good at sneaking. Maybe Pass Without Trace might make it believable, but especially if you're trying it out with people wearing armor with Disadvantage, stealth should be next to impossible in that area.

But again, stealth being the way it is, that is just a gimmick to be exploited. Sure, all fights are easy if I exploit the stealth system. I could wipe the Masks, and have, using broken Stealth.

And THAT'S my point. It's easy with gimmicks, and brutal if played without them.

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Then your point has ben expressed poorly ...
Originally Posted by GM4Him
you either learn the gimmicks and defeat enemies easily or you get pounded by the enemies and have to save scum until you figure out what the gimmicks are
Originally Posted by GM4Him
having to find just the right gimmick to win.
See?
In both cases you claim that you NEED to use them in order to win, and THAT as i said:
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
claiming that you "having to find them is the only way to win" is simply not true.
Is false. wink

---

Now for the rest ...
Originally Posted by GM4Him
The gimmick in the hag fight is "unless you stealth around Masks, in wich case those two encounters happens at once and that is BRUTAL..." In other words, unless you do something that is really quite weird from a story perspective - or is really only possible because of janky stealth mechanics - aka long rest and/or sneak around Masks and/or whatever you must do so that both encounters don't happen at once - both encounters together are BRUTAL.
This has ben twisted so hard im surprised it didnt died and fell off on its own. laugh
I thought you have seen Hag's Lair. O_o

But just to be sure ...
> You enter, meet few poor souls cursed in various way ... you get through her magical door ... and then there is a room with 4 people wearing masks, that keeps them under Hag's control ...
Now you can sneak past them, by abusing "janky stealth mechanics" as you said indeed ...
But you can also use Protection from Evil and Good on yourself and wear the same mask from the first room ... in such case they will concider you as one of them and will not attack. > You get past them, no gimmick included, perfectly logical from story perspective.
You can also simply kill them all, wich kinda makes sence since they are in your way and they are hostile. laugh
> Then you get futher into the lair, you get through some posion/explosive/fire traps ... and you finaly arive to the "room" (for lack of better term) where Hag herself is.
Now you fight ... and she can either fight alone, or (if you were foolish enough to let them live and concious) she summons her Masked friends to help her against you.

In other words, you just "used janky stealth gimmick" (to use your own words) to make your fight aproximately 4 (one per mask) times harder. laugh
So ... if anything, this particular example certainly dont proove any point that gimmicks makes the game easy. laugh

Also, since that is just twisted quote from my example, i did that on purpose, in one of playthroughs i decided to try save as much souls from Hag as possible, so i surpassed the mask by using the spare mask. smile And it backfired as angry ram. laugh
But at least the fight was challenging once again. :3
Sometimes i wonder if she would summon Red Caps aswell if i let them live ... maybe i try it some day. smile


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Were they gimmicks or legit strategy?
You tell me ...
Every time she duplicate, i simply use Magic Missile ... one dart per every single one of them and they *poof* away. wink

Mostly those clones dont attack even once. laugh
But yes, i admit sometimes i prepare in advance for this fight by giving The Sapphire Spark to Lae'zel, or Shadowheart, before i go there. smile


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Either way, in order to beat the hag, you can't just face her upstairs with the redcaps, face the Masks and then face the Hag and win all in one story arc, no long resting, event - well, I suppose you COULD
Ben there, done that. smile

When i knocked out by non-lethal attack Marina's Brothers ... and then find out that if i long rest, i find their corpses in the swamp ... i was determined to spare their lives, to see if the game will respond in any way ... if i get the option to tell Marina that her Brothers were searching for her, and i beated them, but they should be alive and well ...
Sadly, no new dialogue option showed up ... i just finished the battles with no reward for my extra efford ... it was disapointing. frown

Originally Posted by GM4Him
but the fact that it is BRUTAL means that it is a bit too hard.
Challenging ... yes.
But not brutal, not at all ... since you have peace time between those fights, you can fully heal yourself ... scrolls substitued missing spellslots quite well, and since i was only level 4 their (obviously corect) lack of upcasting was not an issue. smile

The hardest challenge on that for me was to keep going ...
I could easily say "nah, screw this shit" any time, and just get out and rest. laugh But i didnt want to.


Anyway what i say was brutal was fighting Hag and Masks at once ... no in between single Long Rest, AT ONCE. laugh
Like both in single encounter. wink


Originally Posted by GM4Him
It's weird that she just waits for you to leave her lair, long rest, and then return full strength to fight her
I dont think its too weird ...
I mean concidering her speech if you get there is that she is comfident that you have no chance to beat her after all. O_o
Also you say "wait until you return in full strength" ... from "story perspective" she could easily presumed that you lost interest and leave ... but surprise surprise, you returned next day. laugh


Originally Posted by GM4Him
and it's weird that your entire party can sneak past the Masks the way they're positioned unless your party is REALLY good at sneaking. Maybe Pass Without Trace might make it believable, but especially if you're trying it out with people wearing armor with Disadvantage, stealth should be next to impossible in that area.
Its actualy not so hard if you really want to stealth through ...
When you enter the room, first wall on your right is low enough so most characters can jump on it ... then you send your best sneaking agent (prefferably improved with some buffs) forward to extinguish the torch ... so masked HUMAN loose most of his sight ... and everyone else in the room stands behind some wall, or pillar ... so your party simply climb down and rush towards the waterfall. smile
You dont really even need turn based mode to do this. laugh

But if you would demand stealthing through while not abusing vision cones ...
Well, basicaly all you need are 4 potions of invisibility. laugh Wich is no problem to get by that time you reach this point. laugh


Originally Posted by GM4Him
But again, stealth being the way it is, that is just a gimmick to be exploited. Sure, all fights are easy if I exploit the stealth system. I could wipe the Masks, and have, using broken Stealth.
That is for example one of gimmics i never ever used. laugh
Reason is simple: It seems boring. laugh

//Edit: Oh now i see that huge quote isnt actualy a quote. laugh
Well, i gues i should read it aswell ... expect another edit with reaction. :P

Originally Posted by GM4Him
Of course it's possible.
That was my whole point. smile

You are the one who said you "need" to use gimmicks in order to win ...
If its "of course possible" without it ... then you dont "need" to do that. :P

Dont be mad at me ... that is just how the word "need" is defined. laugh


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Maybe it took you one try each time. Good for you.
Dont remember actualy, but im sure i made some bad decisions leading to my death between all those games. smile
So certainly not each time. wink


Originally Posted by GM4Him
I thought, "Okay. Roleplaying my character, he was a cleric who was ready to support Lae'zel if things went wrong. He and the others were nearby so they could have her back. But I tried to position myself well ahead of time. Battle started, as I expected, and the Gith won initiative and killed Lae'zel in the first round before she could go. Then they Misty Stepped to my cleric and wiped him also (or sniped him with a crossbow from a distance). Cut my party in half before I could even take a turn. Had to reload like 8 times before I finally beat it.
Well, tough luck i gues. :-/

Funny enough, i still remember my first encounter with them ... back in those times you probably remember Lae'zel leave your group and run toward other Githyanki ...
I thought, roleplaying my character: "Okey. Someone should probably go with her and make sure everything will go well ... on the other hand i allready heared from Zoru that they are merciless killers, Kithrak just said to Beretha "question, kill, then move on", and they just killed bunch of people just bcs they could ... so you two, hide here and wait if something went wrong." laugh
You know what was best? My warlock managed to persuate Kithrak to use her services in search for the weapon and no fight happened at all that time. laugh

Second time i was there i rush with my whole group, confident that i shall once again talk out of it ... well, i didnt ... and i can asure you that they wiped the floor with my party. laugh But i get there unprepared, wounded, exhausted (meaning low spellslots) etc. so that was no big surprise. smile

Since then i usualy hide two of my group up there "in case something went wrong" ...
I dont even remember when i decided to challenge myself and kill them with whole party starting on the ground ... i used misty step on start of the fight to get some distance obviously, but not to the top of that bridge. smile
I dont deny that i came prepared, i had (almost?) everything done from the surface (i never go to the Underdark first) Gale had few Shatter scrolls (3 i think) so he can keep on pushing after spellslots will be out, wich also helped a lot ... and i buffed my party properly before the battle started.
But in my own eyes, i managed to kill them fairly. :3


Originally Posted by GM4Him
That's the normal experience I still have to this day. Unless I use the gimmick and go to the bridge, or unless I win initiative, or I shove several off the edge using insane shove distances, it's pretty much game over. Might as well reload.
Have you ever concidered that you do something wrong? :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
You should not design your combat encounters so that if you lose initiative it's pretty much time to reload. That's too unbalanced and volatile. If bad luck comes your way, you should have a harder time winning, but you shouldn't necessarily have to reload.
I get it you have bad experience ...
But im still convinced that they are not what are you describing ... based on for change my own experience.

Yes, Githyanki fight is hard if you start on same level as them ... but no, it is not impossible and no, its certainly not "necessarily have to reload". :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
and if I play through smartly, I don't have to reload.
I really dont waant to be unnecesary harsh here ...
But concidering that we "know" each other for almost a year now, and concidering that i have seen countless description of what you concider "play smartly" ...

I dare to say that your and mine ... and as it seems also your and Larians ... image of smart play is just different. :-/


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Again, Solasta has done this so very well. My current game, I haven't even died once. Not a single character has died. Several times, they've fallen and I've had to use magic or a potion to revive them in time before they die, but none has died and made me reload. Combat encounters are challenging, and sometimes I've thought, "Holy crap! I'm going to lose this fight and I'm going to have to reload," but then I find some way to turn it around and win.
Eh ...
I gues i should skip this coment, since im missing important context.

But we both know that i dont do things just bcs i "should". laugh
So one thing i must say ... i dont think that "one person being able to get through some game smoothly and without any problems" is in any way showing how well is that game done. :-/
At best, it certainly shows how well this game fits that particular player ... but hardly anything more.


Originally Posted by GM4Him
It's not so hard that I'm having to reload a dozen times to find a way to win or to just get freaking lucky and win.
You know saying it like this ... it almost feels like every time you die in the game, you simply reload and go do exactly the same expecting different outcome. :-/

Once i did something simmilar ...
Just for the lols, i decided to "solo" Demon General on Nautiloid ... so i created Fighter Dwarf 17-14-17-something ... i steal Lae'zel armor, i get Shield and Battleaxe ... Shadowheart gave me Protection from Evil and Good ... and we get to fight ... cleared first part of the room ... killed Illithid ... then i moved girls somewhere safe, Quick Save, and started my duel ...
I died in 3rd or 4th round ... quite embarasing, but RNG is a bitch. laugh
So a loaded ... and then it hit me ... i loaded in middle of the fight, exactly at the spot when all was prepared and i just started my duel ... so i decided to abuse savescuming so hard, so even the definition of savescuming would be embarased for it ... and it was not just possible, it worked like a charm. laugh
All i needed was to hit F5 after every single sucesfull hit ... and since my character died on first swing from general, when i loaded (once MC die, tutorial ends) i returned only single turn. xD
It was long and tedious fight ... but in the end, General was dead by nitpicking ony those swings when he missed. xD

Anyway that was just the funny part ...
My point of this reaction is that if *i* die in combat, i usualy try different approach. laugh


Originally Posted by GM4Him
Even if things are going wrong, I still might pull through and turn it around.
I believe you can ... and i believe it, bcs that is exactly what i do. :-/

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 29/03/22 06:13 PM.

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The alternative to being dog-piled by the spiders is to park your party a ways back...then send a single player to range pull (All whopping 18 meters) then run like hell back to the group.

As they approach, dog-pile them. Babies die quick to Area Of Effect spells (AOE), or say cleave attacks.

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I would not say the game is hard, hard is a matter of skill, the game is unfair. You winning or loosing has nothing to do with you, but a rng number. This is why it feels much worse then dos2. In DOS2 you win because your smart. Here you win because you either cheesed, or you fought and got lucky with a roll.

eg:

1) you shove- you fail, you likely just died or lost 50% of your hp OR you win, you got no control over encounter
2) use magic; most magic so far is 1d20 for companions, fails 70% of time, makes companion useless, may as well take lone wolf [if it existed] or just physical [also applies for all status effects]
3) Uses a heal, heals for 1 hp- you reload. Heals should always be a flat number. Heal 5 +[1d20], Heal 10 + 1d12, Heal 15 1d6, Heal 20 + 1d6 + ad6, and heal 25 1d6, 1d6, 1d20 for tier 5


These are the main scenerios that lead to major problems. Makes the game feel bad

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RNG is meant to create excitement. You attack and might not always do the same amount of damage. You heal, it may not be a lot, or it may be a ton. You shove, you may get your enemy off you and your companions. You might not.

The problem isn't the RNG. It's the extremes in BG3, and that's the point. Shove shouldn't be so extreme. 5 ft is all you should be able to be pushed... Or knocked prone. It should very rarely send you off a cliff or into lava.

It is the extremes that make the RNG so bad. It's not the RNG itself.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled
I would not say the game is hard, hard is a matter of skill, the game is unfair. You winning or loosing has nothing to do with you, but a rng number. This is why it feels much worse then dos2. In DOS2 you win because your smart. Here you win because you either cheesed, or you fought and got lucky with a roll.

eg:

1) you shove- you fail, you likely just died or lost 50% of your hp OR you win, you got no control over encounter
2) use magic; most magic so far is 1d20 for companions, fails 70% of time, makes companion useless, may as well take lone wolf [if it existed] or just physical [also applies for all status effects]
3) Uses a heal, heals for 1 hp- you reload. Heals should always be a flat number. Heal 5 +[1d20], Heal 10 + 1d12, Heal 15 1d6, Heal 20 + 1d6 + ad6, and heal 25 1d6, 1d6, 1d20 for tier 5


These are the main scenerios that lead to major problems. Makes the game feel bad
Agree about shove, but not your #2 and I don't exactly understand your #3.

2)
  • Attack-Roll spells are equally, if not more, likely to hit than physical attacks. Both a level-1 Wizard with an Int of 16 and a level-1 Fighter with a Str of 16 have a +5 to hit against AC. But a spellcaster is also more likely to benefit from the high ground +2-to-hit bonus than a martial character. Cantrips do less damage, sure, but leveled spells typically do more.
  • Saving Throw spells, on the other hand, are relatively weaker. Enemies in BG3 (mostly goblins) have slightly lowered ACs and increased HP, but their saving throws remain unchanged. Thus you're less likely to hit them with ST spells and such spells do relatively less damage. Even still, the chance is almost always going to be >50% unless you have disadvantage.

Ah, are you casting spells while adjacent to an enemy? Doing so gives you disadvantage on your spell attack roll, which might explain the "70% chance to fail" you're reporting.

3.) Are you saying that you want all healing to only heal a flat amount? Or do you want healing to be a flat amount plus a random amount? If the latter, then that's how most healing in the game currently works. Healing potion is 2d4+2, cure wounds is 1d8+[spellcasting modifier-typically 3 or 4], etc. It's disappointing when you only heal the minimum from a potion, but given that it's only a bonus action cost, averaged over multiple rounds you'll probably heal the average.

The key difference between the randomness in #1 vs #2 and #3 is that #1 is too powerful. A single shove can OHKO a party member or enemy, which is bad. Whereas the latter effects are small enough that a single one can't usually turn the tide of battle on its own - it requires casting that spell for multiple rounds and/or adding to damage dealt from other party members.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled
2) use magic; most magic so far is 1d20 for companions, fails 70% of time, makes companion useless, may as well take lone wolf [if it existed] or just physical [also applies for all status effects]
Are you referring to Sacred Flame, by any chance? Don't use it, it's complete rubbish. I regularly have 5-6 misses in a row with it against even the simplest enemies.
Also, pay attention to (dis)advantage. It severely skews your chances on attack, regardless of what you use.

But generally, it looks like DnD is not your thing.

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Its not that i do not like DnD, Kotor 1 and 2 as well as dragon age origins are my fav RPGs. I am fine with saving throws and advantage, i do not like when the entire game is that thou. If you look at those games, they feel much better because you winning or loosing has a lot more to do with how you manage your position, your abilities, likewise you get save rolls just as much as the enemy does. In my own experience, enemies would save throw against me 50% of cases, but i would only in like 10%. That just does not feel very good.

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There are randomness in many turn based rpg, even not based on DnD. But you'll probably learn how to improve your hit chances like you do in other games. DnD is much more complex than a lot of games...
Sad that Larian hasen't implemented somekind of cover system because it's really easy to understand and to play with. More than saving throws.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
There are randomness in many turn based rpg, even not based on DnD. But you'll probably learn how to improve your hit chances like you do in other games. DnD is much more complex than a lot of games...
Sad that Larian hasen't implemented somekind of cover system because it's really easy to understand and to play with. More than saving throws.

That is why Xcom is a better game lol. Its so much more intuitive, and puts more control in the hands of the player over rng.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
There are randomness in many turn based rpg, even not based on DnD. But you'll probably learn how to improve your hit chances like you do in other games. DnD is much more complex than a lot of games...
Sad that Larian hasen't implemented somekind of cover system because it's really easy to understand and to play with. More than saving throws.

That is why Xcom is a better game lol. Its so much more intuitive, and puts more control in the hands of the player over rng.

I would not really say that because even if I'm a fan, I had been very frustrated by RNG in Xcom more than in any other games. But yes most mechanics are easy to understand.
DnD is a great and deeper system in which you have more options to control your %to hit, but it just takes a lot of time to learn the rules... and it's not very well implemented in BG3 tbh.

Mostly talking about reactions, the cover system, the lack of options in combats or options that have been reworked for the worse (i.e shove, help), the resting system that screw a lot of tactical value a DnD game could have, the massive amount of consummables and potions and scrolls that makes classes less unique, the lack of consequences when a character die (a few gold at worse),...

Last edited by Maximuuus; 31/03/22 07:14 PM.
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by AusarViled
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
There are randomness in many turn based rpg, even not based on DnD. But you'll probably learn how to improve your hit chances like you do in other games. DnD is much more complex than a lot of games...
Sad that Larian hasen't implemented somekind of cover system because it's really easy to understand and to play with. More than saving throws.

That is why Xcom is a better game lol. Its so much more intuitive, and puts more control in the hands of the player over rng.

I would not really say that because even if I'm a fan, I had been very frustrated by RNG in Xcom more than in any other games. But yes most mechanics are easy to understand.
DnD is a great and deeper system in which you have more options to control your %to hit, but it just takes a lot of time to learn the rules... and it's not very well implemented in BG3 tbh.

Mostly talking about reactions, the cover system, the lack of options in combats or options that have been reworked for the worse (i.e shove, help), the resting system that screw a lot of tactical value a DnD game could have, the massive amount of consummables and potions and scrolls that makes classes less unique, the lack of consequences when a character die (a few gold at worse),...

Ye i dont understand why there are so many potions and bombs everywhere in dos2 or Bg3. in DnD they are exceptionally rare. They are supposed to be something you save until you are screwed, with the exception of Titan Quest [not sure if you would consider that a soft dnd system]. I do not want to be a living mixer just chugging pots every round because i get a bad roll.

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