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I'm interested to see how many people actually care about real time with pause versus how many really don't want it in the game at all.

So, options are:

1. Turn Based Only - As is. Larian, don't waste time on RTWP at all. We want you to focus on other things. Even after release, we want you to focus on other things. Never add RTWP to this game.

2. Add RTWP asap as an optional gameplay. Larian, I REALLY care about RTWP so much I want you to include it even if it takes extra time to release the full game.

3. Add RTWP at some point maybe even after the game is released as an optional gameplay. Larian, I really want RTWP, but not at the expense of the game being released even later.

4. I don't care. Either way I'm fine. As long as the game isn't delayed to add RTWP, they can add it. I won't be upset. Also, I won't mind if they add it after release. Whatever. It's fine with me. Just don't implement it now if it messes with the release date.

TB vs. RTWP
single choice
Votes accepted starting: 23/04/22 03:34 AM
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Nah turn based only ... (opt 1)
Yes i mind even the option, i dont want Larian to spend time and resources on it. Nothing more, nothing less ...

This game was allways advertised as TB and every penny that this would cost would be better spend litteraly anywhere else. :-/

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 23/04/22 12:27 PM.

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BOTH like Pathfinder Wotr.
That poll is confusing, wasn't sure how to vote. That second option, It looks like RtWp ONLY or is it ADD RtWp to Turn base (so Both)???

This would also let developers add minor/short interesting encounters; random stuff to flesh out the world. A natural fit for RtWp. Because having these kind of encounters with Turn Base only would make the game even more dreadfully slow.

Anyways something needs to be done to speed up Turn base mode...then I wouldnt mind just having it as is.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 23/04/22 10:30 AM.
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I prefer the game to do one thing, and do it well - one can't a make good RTwP and Turn-based system, at least one will suffer. So while I of course I don't mind an inferior mode being added for widening the audience (like in the case of PoE2) I do mind if it introduced issues to the "main" mode (like in PoE2).

I do like RTwP, but the only game that did it pretty well IMO had a dedicated system for it (PoE1&2). For BG3 I am happy for it to remain turn based, and I would rather see them take full advantage of it (add proper reactions!) then add RTwP on top. I only wish more RTwP RPGs were made to balance things out.

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Voted for #4. I like turn based best, but I am fine with them adding RTwP as an option if it doesn’t cause issues.

Last edited by Icelyn; 23/04/22 11:47 AM.
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I was really dissapointed when I learned that there would not have RTWP in the BG3 I was waiting for years.
But I like turn based game a lot too so in the end, I just don't care.

Add a convenient TB system to a RTWP game is not the same than adding RTWP to game designed to have tactical combats.
BG3 in RTWP would probably suck. I vote for 4.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 23/04/22 02:51 PM.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I was really dissapointed when I learned that there would not have RTWP in the BG3 I was waiting for years.
But I like turn based game a lot too so in the end, I just don't care.

Add a convenient TB system to a RTWP game is not the same than adding RTWP to game designed to have tactical combats.
BG3 in RTWP would probably suck. I vote for 4.

Same, i firmly believe that updating an incorporated autopause system would have been the way to go. If done correctly it plays more or less the same but you don't have to suspend your disbelieve all the time at how stupid it is you can not have simultaneous actions that don't break the flow and look/feel more natural (who would not move or simple stand somewhere while being attacked or hit with something. To me it makes totally no sense to have: start of battle everybody freeze, from now on whoever got initiative get a free hit, while everyone has to keep standing still and it's your turn to hit an opponent who will gracefully stand still and patiently wait for your attack to hit or miss. But, not a hill I will die on as except for this, RtWP with autopaused tuned as it should, plays more or less the same. Except computers solved the issue of simultaneous actions and dice resolve already ages ago and I think it's moronic people prefer to pretend they're limited by the same artificial rules as TT. And on and on and on...

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Originally Posted by SerraSerra
Except computers solved the issue of simultaneous actions and dice resolve already ages ago and I think it's moronic people prefer to pretend they're limited by the same artificial rules as TT. And on and on and on...
Turn-based is not a limitation - it’s gameplay style. Every game is an abstraction - or rather set of abstract game mechanics with a theme attached to them.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by SerraSerra
Except computers solved the issue of simultaneous actions and dice resolve already ages ago and I think it's moronic people prefer to pretend they're limited by the same artificial rules as TT. And on and on and on...
Turn-based is not a limitation - it’s gameplay style. Every game is an abstraction - or rather set of abstract game mechanics with a theme attached to them.

I guess it's up to subjective experience and expectations then. For me a game is a simulation, and fantasy crpg's are simulations of a fantasy world which are attractive forms of escapism where we can project our feelings and beliefs into. For a tabletop game, taking turns to act in the world makes sense because the tabletop technology doesn't really allow for a real time simulation, in computers however, this limitation is not there, not limited to pictures, maps, figures, and a GM, the world can now be animated and simply showed to the player. For me taking turns is either a necessity for non singleplayer (e.g. civ) or because of wanting to recreate a tabletop boardgame experience. Sadly I do not come to BG3 seeking a digitalised TT experience but rather a more technologically advance simulation of the D&D universe and it's basic rules/laws. But that's just my personal taste and I guess it's not the most commercially profitable to cater to laugh

Edit: basically it's the whole 'chess pieces' not moving until they are told so that for me makes combat feel like an annoying minigame suspending the rules of reality and physics. Like how am I supposed to imagine a reason for all the goblins in the temple to stand still and not move during combat and taking turns in getting hit or trying to attack ? I simply can't come up with something except, it's an archaic remnant of when we were forced to take turn because we couldn't compute simulations with simultaneous actions going on. The fact that turns are linked to real time passing in TT further shows that turns are simply an abstraction to structure players interactions with and in the world and that in this world time is imagined as moving (e.g. potions and effects should be time based, not based on the 'pass turn' button given the technology allowing it and it being closer to the intended goal of simulating a world where we can act in as players). Anyway, this getting too philosophical again smile

Last edited by SerraSerra; 24/04/22 09:48 AM.
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Moving from RTWP to turn-based tactical combat is pretty much the only area where I feel Larian made a significant improvement over the original without losing anything in the trade-off.

I've never been a fan of that type of combat and even as a big fan of the old Infinity Engine games I always perceived as a compromise in otherwise excellent games, rather than an ideal solution.

I remember playing Temple of Elemental Evil back then and pretty much thinking "I wish we could have a big, expansive game like BG2 with this style of combat".


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Due to the fact that it is impossible to go from tb to rtwp without creating a completely separate combat system (+ AI) or modification of the system to suit both modes results in a significant deterioration of tb, option 1 is the most sensible.

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Originally Posted by SerraSerra
For me a game is a simulation, and fantasy crpg's are simulations of a fantasy world which are attractive forms of escapism where we can project our feelings and beliefs into.
Well yeah, but it's built using very abstract mechanics. in RTwP you literally have a power to stop time from moving.

I am mostly just jesting. I get where you are coming from, even if I don't see it that way. In general I think I played enough games to just not buy "the immersion". I see systems, trigger points and artificiality in every game I play nowadays.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
Due to the fact that it is impossible to go from tb to rtwp without creating a completely separate combat system (+ AI) or modification of the system to suit both modes results in a significant deterioration of tb, option 1 is the most sensible.

Pathfinder Wotr does it (both). Works pretty well. Yea its not incredibly perfect, nothing is.
Still its fun and can be fast/furious/risky when you want, or slow if you want to be tactical. Whatsmore you can switch system on the fly whenever you want; its part of the gameplay.

Encounters can be easily tweaked. Base game systems cannot.
I agree with a previous post that PURE turn base tactical system really gets me out of the game. All urgency and risk is gone. Its so incredibly slow, it feels almost too silly when you have TONS of enemies. Your too much IN CONTROL. I think thats great for difficult boss fights or major encounters...but is just overkill for regular mob encounters. Adding a bit of <CHAOS> with RtWp spices things up a bit and adds that bit of urgency and risk to the encounter.
Total control freaks really like Turn base...Its safe. Its comfortable. For me thats just too boring wink I like it wild and chaotic; I think its more surprising and fun.

As an example these first Imp encounters on the ship would work SO much better if it were RtWp! You get that urgency. Actually EVERY encounters on the ship should be RtWp; Its so incredibly silly taking your turn running towards the switch in the end...It stretches soooo long a sequence that should be fast and furious. You could risk it all by having 1 character RUN FOR IT in realtime while others protecting him and be done with it smile So much better pacing and you be like "is he gonna make it....". While in turn base you more like..." zzzz...oh, uh, my turn...easy as pie", I have calculated the trajectory, speed, x+y (cos5)2= SUCCESS!!

Anyways, too bad we can't have both for BG3.

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 27/04/22 10:26 AM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Moving from RTWP to turn-based tactical combat is pretty much the only area where I feel Larian made a significant improvement over the original without losing anything in the trade-off.

I agree with Tuco that the change from RTwP to turn-based was for the better.

I could never really figure out what was going on in BG1 combats. Characters tended to clump together, I wasn't sure what the visual effects meant and I always felt like someone in the party was doing nothing because they were done casting their spell, or their target was dead or some other reason. In the end, I'd tap spacebar compulsively, effectively pausing twice every in-game second just to check that my party wasn't about to die out of nowhere.

Turn based combat provides legibility and focus. Those make for memorable moments which can link together to form a compelling combat narrative. He hit me so I shoved him so his pal threw a firebomb so I Misty Stepped. It's been a while since I last played BG1, but I don't recall having a fight that didn't go like: "enemies showed up so we all got into a sweaty pile to see who would drop dead first."


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Originally Posted by Flooter
Originally Posted by Tuco
Moving from RTWP to turn-based tactical combat is pretty much the only area where I feel Larian made a significant improvement over the original without losing anything in the trade-off.

I agree with Tuco that the change from RTwP to turn-based was for the better.

I could never really figure out what was going on in BG1 combats. Characters tended to clump together, I wasn't sure what the visual effects meant and I always felt like someone in the party was doing nothing because they were done casting their spell, or their target was dead or some other reason. In the end, I'd tap spacebar compulsively, effectively pausing twice every in-game second just to check that my party wasn't about to die out of nowhere.

Turn based combat provides legibility and focus. Those make for memorable moments which can link together to form a compelling combat narrative. He hit me so I shoved him so his pal threw a firebomb so I Misty Stepped. It's been a while since I last played BG1, but I don't recall having a fight that didn't go like: "enemies showed up so we all got into a sweaty pile to see who would drop dead first."

btw I also like Turn base. I wish we could have both.
What you mentioned is precisely why I love RTwP! That chaotic nature you CAN have. But also that total control that you CAN have. You only mentioned the chaos you created or don't understand.
Not sure what you did not understand about the system...You can position your party members, you have spells, abilities, pre-casting, you can be as strategic as you wish BUT there is this random element that can make it OH SHIT!?! It can be as fast or as slow as you make it.

In the end what I think BG3 needs is a FASTER turn base system. You can be on your AAA game, combat still drags on forever...

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 27/04/22 11:24 AM.
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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
What you mentioned is precisely why I love RTwP! That chaotic nature you CAN have. But also that total control that you CAN have. You only mentioned the chaos you created or don't understand.
I can definitely see the appeal in chaos. I enjoy it myself if I understand the tools at my disposal to react to changing circumstances. However, BG1 never made me feel like I could find a clever way out of an unexpected corner. It was more along the lines of "well, someone did something and now Imoen is dead."

Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Not sure what you did not understand about the system...You can position your party members, you have spells, abilities, pre-casting, you can be as strategic as you wish BUT there is this random element that can make it OH SHIT!?! It can be as fast or as slow as you make it.
I was 12 and new to RPGs and DnD and had no grasp of the systems. (This is the first I've ever heard of pre-casting.) Sure you can pause, but it's not easy to figure out the link between cause and effect when everything happens all at once.

Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
In the end what I think BG3 needs is a FASTER turn base system. You can be on your AAA game, combat still drags on forever...
We agree there! I assume AI efficiency is going to be the key. Judging by DoS2, I believe Larian have what it takes to make the AI both quick and clever.

Last edited by Flooter; 27/04/22 12:07 PM. Reason: Missing word

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Turn based only. Add RTwP would limit the game and would require to remove features to accommodate the play style while forcing a pitiful turn based mode. If someone wants RTwP they can play pathfinder.

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1) BG3 and TB didn't seem to match.

TB is a gameplay interesting with fights which are set for it with a limited number of opponents.
The problem is with BG3 taht you can have to deal with tons of opponents and so it became a real pain.

I will never forget my fight against all the goblins village. It was looooooooooooooooooooong and borinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng.
I had my team on a high ground and I just shot them and shove the ones who succeed at climbing the ladder. There was 10 ? 15 ennemies ? Way too much.

So if TB is excellent in DD2 or Fire emblem or expedition vikings or a lot of games, it feels like BG3 isn't fit for it, at least not for every fights.

2) RtwP isn't strategic ?

I don't get this point. Why it would or why it was no strategic in the first place ? I did a lot of fights in BG2 and 3, or POE, or Pathinfder, or tyranny and it was never fights where I was juste watching and waiting for the end. You have to manage your fight, stay focus to see the moves or incantations from the ennemies and act accordingly. I don't understand why it would be less strategic than TB.
I remembered having played Baldur's Gate Trilogy with mod which enhanced the difficulty of the game. It was damn challenging and strategic.
Anyway, people can prefer TB, but, for sure,RtwP is strategic. Just in a different way.
(If I would criticize TB I could say that you have often like 4-5 turns in your mind already set and so you are just waiting for the fight to go without any surprise or really interest since you already anticipate it.)

3) It should be the two. It's doable, it have been done and it's what they should have done.
Why not doing something people want if you can when it's not this hard or expensive to do ?
I don't appreciate this behaviour. Just saying.

At the end, I would like to have RtwP for the thrill (as someone epxlained) but I would be fine if it's just a GOOD TB. Problem is, BG3 haven't actually a good system of fighting.

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Originally Posted by Wormerine
in RTwP you literally have a power to stop time from moving. .

So you like it more in turn based where time stops moving arbitrarily for all but one character at the time? I'm jesting too and I guess my tastes are outdated or don't fit the BG brand as much as I hoped but to me playing this in turn based is as if upon entering combat everyone somehow became a mage and they all cast timestop and their spells resolved consecutively. It's actually funny how weird it is to think how 'turn based' resembles how BG implemented timestop spells where you were either frozen yourself or froze everyone else and forced them to 'undergo your turn' without being able to do anything (obviously after the spell's duration rtwp chaos explodes again). I wonder if it's the absence of simultaneous action that bothers me in TB and what could be a way to amend this without going to Rtwp laugh

Last edited by SerraSerra; 27/04/22 09:53 PM.
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As much as I'd love RTwP for a game scratching many of the similar itches BG3 leans toward doing for me, D&D 5e is turnbased. There's enough things to criticise for straying from RAW already, that'd be the biggest. (And it'd require a complete remake of the game on a fundamental level) so it just won't happen IMO.

At best some polish and iteration on certain encounters, such as the goblin village, needs to be made to protect from overly insane combat rosters.

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