Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback d&d is good but i'm not sold on the class system

if im a mind flayer, a creature class, i get these racial type powers, maybe i get psionics, maybe i can levitate,
i get a physical form that gives me various resistances,
but then d&d comes in and tries to pin a class on this,
there is no class for this, its a monster class, the mind-flayer did not go through training school,
they give you x amount of hitdice, that's it.

with that much making sense,

why can't i just roll up a human, with no class. why do you have to railroad me into believing that i need a past profession or training to excel or exceed in a fantasy simulation..
the problem i have with classes, is that once i choose a class, then it takes away the option for all the other classes,

its kind of stupid really.
id like to see a class system more like oblivion elder scrolls 4, where there is no real class, its just a name, you get a series of stats and abilities that define your character,

on your end, in your computer environment, you can create any unit to have any ability or stat that you want. they can be infinitely powerful, it doesn't have to follow any kind of class rule system.
then you introduce class systems, you do nothing but NERF the player with that. while the monster npcs don't have to follow that rule, its kind of annoying.
every character essentially wants to be good at everything. lets face it that's a fact.

a better d&d system than classes, is you have a point-based buy system. you want to be proficient in light armor , then that costs 1 point, then you want to be proficient in medium armor 1 pt more,
then you want a basic array of weapons simple weapons 1 pt more again, you want to have access to x spells, that costs points,
then your total of stats and abilities that you bought with the point buy system, reflects what kind of character you are.

in d&d say im playing a cleric im a big healer right, but i go through this dungeon, never use 1 heal spell, and i kill 50 goblins with my mace, and boom im level 2, now im a better healer than previously !!
i like maybe skyrim better, i use a conjuration spell over and over, then my conjuration skill goes up. simple right ?

Won't deny it D&D might come with it's own set of limitations but I think that's the entire idea. For each class to face the exact same situation differently depending on their ressources + their second class eventually. It's an old system but it works so I would rather say there's a space for everything in this world.

From meta-gaming perspective I ( personally) prefer class systems cause otherwise you end up with a couple " best skills" you will be actually using + you can get the answer to potentially everything as a backup on anyone ( I'm specifically thinking about DOS:2 cause I think that's the most "classless" game I played).

Meanwhile the class system from this same perspective will make you grab as many represantatives of the " best class" as you can while still having other classes to cover the shortcomings. They will eventually end up having to deal with some situation themselves in a " non meta way".

I mean that from pure combat perspective cause it's true from roleplay side( and that's what you're hinting at in your post) it's actually extremely strange lol.

That's the whole point of a class-based system. Classes are specialists where each person has specialized skills in exchange for giving up broad power. You need a well rounded party full of people in different classes in order to achieve greatness. Apes together strong.

Also, mechanically, it makes things so much easier to focus into one (or 2 or 3) classes, instead of having access to every single ability.

While not implemented in BG3 yet, D&D does allow multi-classing (as an optional, but incredibly commonly used, rule). As long as you have the minimum stats for the required class (e.g., Str or Dex for fighters, Int for wizards, Wis for Clerics), you can pick a new class to level up in each level.

In your example, your level 1 cleric could multiclass into fighter for level 2 to represent focusing more on the martial side of things, and thus they'd have 1 level in both classes.

Limiting what your character can do is the very point of classes - that's because, unlike Oblivion where you play by yourself, you are meant to play with a party. One of ways to encourage teamplay is to give various teammembers different elements that they need to combine to succeed. As such holy trinity was born (tank, DPS, healer) and D&D works like that. By choosing class, you choose what set of skills you want tyour character to have and you fill missing pieces with teammates.

While considering that as a fact can be discussed I can understand the sentiment that we humans fundamentally want to be good at whatever we do. On the other hand, part of being who we are, is understanding and accepting the fact that we are not. Some have talent for singing, others dancing, some for team player sports, others solving mathematical problems by their own. By discovering our strengths and weaknesses in skills, we define ourselves and often find more enjoyment in pushing ourselves in areas where we lack than easily succeed in areas we don't.

Sure, there are always some that have the ultimate power fantasy of being able to solve every problem by themselves. The true solo journey, the Hero. But DnD and its class system is more about the group than the individual. No single character is supposed to be able to excel in everything but instead complement the party. The rogue disarm traps and pick locks, the cleric heals and buffs, the fighter takes the brunt of the attack and the caster support the fighter by taking down enemies from a far before they become overwhelming.

That said, the concept does translate poorly to a single player campaign where you are dependent on suboptimal npc's in your party, but then again, removing either the class system or the dice and you have really crippled your DnD game(which BG3 is) beyond recognition.

Also, as stated by Virion, in a system where a character can do everything, you severely cut down on replayability. Very soon there will be a strong consensus among the community on which abilities/skills are the best/needed and why play the game a second time when we will just make the same character again? And where's the allure in roleplaying different characters when they are all the same?

Each to their own, nothing wrong with liking the character system in games like elder scrolls or DoS, but if your suggestion here is to remove the classes I strongly disagree.

Class and race are two different things. Mindflayers can have class levels, especially if they're player characters. A mindflayer with a few monk levels is a mindflayer who has trained specifically to be more effective in melee, and better at incapacitating their foes for that tasty brain-nomming (stunning strike, anyone?). The mindflayer with class levels is intrinsically more powerful and dangerous than the mindflayer without class levels. Monsters do, in fact, play by the same rules, more or less; they generally don't have formal class levels, however, and are universally much more scary and dangerous when they do.

The others have covered most of the points in the original post, and I don't need to go over them too much, but as to the question of needing to be exceptional... It's because you do; by definition, you need to be someone who is, or has the capacity to be, exceptional in some way, compared to most others. Choosing a class is illustrating the way in which you are exceptional compared to most others. It is a premise that you are above average; the class system is just asking you how you are.

IIf you want to take your first level in commoner, and get nothing but a hit die increase, a Dm would probably let you; you'd have no abilities, no skills, and no proficiencies, and if you wanted to gain them, you'd need to train them, and it would take time; time that you'd spend learning the basic proficiency and function of things to be able to use them at a reasonable competency, while others are improving their existing skills and growing stronger. Picking a starting class is the assumption that you've spent a certain amount of time off-camera gaining the basics of a few skills prior to this point in your life. You can choose not to have any starting kit at all, but you are only nerfing yourself if you do so.

Some small extra notes:


No, it doesn't. There we go. Now that that's solved - if that was 'the problem' you had, I take it you have no problem with it now, then? Great.



No, it's not, and no they don't. It might be true for you, and for every character you personally create (and boy does that sound boring, but you do you), but you are not everyone. I have to disagree, just very mildly on one small detail, with PrivateRacoon here - Whether it's factual or not can't really be discussed in an intelligible way; it's straight up factually untrue. Not every character wants to be good at everything.

Not having classes is fine for certain kind of games mostly single-player, but in D&D it presents a commitment to a certain field of study. You can't just dabble in magic and expect to be as powerful as a mage who committed his entire life to mastering the art. Same with other fields.

Oh man that way of thinking about classes is precisely why cRPGs are turning to shit. <cry>.

<<...why do you have to railroad me into believing that i need a past profession or training to excel or exceed in a fantasy simulation..>>

ROFL. Or you joking right? Do you understand the underlying concept of a party based RPG? This isnt God of War, Witcher or Elder scrolls.

<<..the problem i have with classes, is that once i choose a class, then it takes away the option for all the other classes..>>

Hence the whole point of classes because this is a party base RPG.
Seriously is this for real? Are we at that lowest point now that we need to argue whether or not we need CLASSES in a cRPG D&D game?
Whats next? Why is the setting in a fantasy world and not on EARTH?? Screw rules, why cant we just have parachutes and automatic riffles for everyone??

That's not even the unique drawback of class system - in classless RPGs you also make important choices during character creation that you are stuck with for the rest of the game. In something like D:OS2 you just continue to put point into buckets you invested early on - otherwise you will end up not doing anything good enough. Have a system with skill trees and it again, heavily encourages to dip into only couple of trees, often making it feel like a light class system.

That is a nature of RPGs and you may like it or dislike it. Creating my character in an RPG is one of my favourite aspects of those games, though it is a very old school approach - researching how the game plays before you start it. That is an issue that Tim Cain highlighted in his GDC talk, though I am not that fond of the game that he made as the result (Outer Worlds). Making players better understand what they pick at the start of the game is a good problem to attempt to solve, but it is also a side effect of one of the most interesting aspects of the game - creating character with strengths and weaknesses.

My general preference: classless system for single character RPGs (fallout, arcanum), class system for team based RPGs.

Maybe this is not the game you are looking for then. Unless you imply that everyone should only be playing games that you like, in which case... well, I hope you are not here for that.

Which begs the questions why play D&D at all then? What you're saying is tantamount to walking into a Japanese restaurant and being disappointed that there isn't pizza on the menu.

^This. So this! This is exactly how I like it as well.

Kinda skimmed so if someone already said this oopsy. Mindflayers and other creatures used to get monster levels to show how strong they were compared to the basic races. This went with several of the races in 5e that are common now but, were actually basic creatures in previous editions. Tieflings & drow off the top of my head are good examples, they wouldn't get a class for several levels to counter how beefy the race was.

class system has always been d&d, off the top of my head world of darkness had a point buy system i think, there was also rift. That's to say were going to by pen and paper which is what d&d is based off of.

that's unforgivable nerfing.. i'm playing alone, a single player, in a single-player mode. no one cares about how strongly powerful my pretend character is if its in god-mode or not...

why do i have to play with a party ?? why cant i lone wolf it.. because i'm nerfed. they make you exceptionally weak so you need the help of other weak npcs, then give you the false feeling of overcoming the odds, when you have 4 weaklings together..

classes are archetypes, they aren't the rule of the game.
they create new classes any time they want. why not let me create a new class. exactly like i said. and build my new class with a point-buy system. if you want to play a classic barbarian wizard ranger sorcerer whatever, you should be able to if you want, you should be able to play a custom class if you want.

i'm not FORCED to take party members with me, this is supposed to be semi open semi sandboxish. i can just walk out into the world, and reject the company of every other npc in the game. in which case - i'm playing solo, with zero party members.

Because it's a party based RPG. If you want single-character action it just might not be the game for you. You ask why you can't solo, I will ask: why only 4 party members when the originals had 6.

That said I am sure lone wolfing will be a thing - it has been in every party based RPG I can think of. One just needs to learn to game the system.

Well, I do because I will be playing the same game, in single player with a maximum party allowed, so it is in my best interest for the game to be balanced around that.

You can. Just use barrels.

my purpose for submitting opinions, is to speak directly with larian, and let them know my viewpoint on the game and what i would like to see in it.

my discussion towards larian is valid. - have an OPEN MIND...

i'm getting a lot of POMPOUS responses...
you don't need to try and squelch my opinion because you love yours more.
that's not the spirit of a good discussion on a forum.

if you get 50 class buy points, and you choose, light & medium armor, martial weapons, rage, extra hit-points, and bonus move speed.. , then you can type in "barbarian" if you want in the class-box. or "super-man", or "tough-guy brawler."
or you can choose the default "barbarian" and it gives everything that i said above..

what i'm saying is d&d-based , d&d 6.0 maybe. you have to think outside the box.

on paper.. i'm invincible and immortal - and stats mean nothing. that's the reality of it. i want the game that i play to reflect that.

I mean, good luck. Larian almost certainly isn't going to implement this. Aside from the amount of work it'd require, this thread also shows how unpopular the idea is. Plus, Larian is licensing the rules from WotC - there's likely a limit to how far they can deviate before WotC steps in, and your suggestion is at least close to that line if not over it.

If you want a completely class-less BG3, you'll almost certainly have to rely on modders (or create such a mod yourself).

The closest thing you'll likely get in BG3 is if Larian implements a Lone Wolf mode such that your character simultaneously gains levels in 2 classes, which you then combine with feats (e.g., medium armor master, slasher, extra hp, mobile) for extra customization.

So, what you are failing to understand is that the IP, Intellectual Property, isn't owned by Larian. It's owned by WotC/Hasbro. It is based on a game system that dates back before TES or The Witcher, to a system that the original games, BG and BG 2, were based on. Larian isn't free to just throw the ruleset out the window, and make whatever they want. Everything has to go through an approval process, and it's counter productive for WotC/Hasbro to throw their game system under the bus because someone likes a different system better. The rules used to create characters in this game are used because they are intrinsic to the IP. Someone disagreeing with you is not because someone is being pompous, it's because they understand that flying the Dungeons and Dragons banner means they have to stick to that franchise.

When I'm looking for my solostar power fantasy, I actually play games like Skyrim, Fallout et al, or even Horizon Zero Dawn. I have, and will likely be able to here, built characters that could solo party based RPGs. However, that's not what's intended here, and not what the controlling IP, Dungeons and Dragons, is about.

I have no clue what your going on about

What your suggesting is, in principle, not a bad idea. There's something there that could work as a game. But as you said, it would effectively be D&D 6.0, something very different from what we have now. And I don't think it's practical for Larian to try and make that work in the game at this stage. And furthermore even if it were practical, that's not the game they're making in the first place. The point of D&D 5e is to have that class-based system where you rely on other characters in your party to get through encounters. Baldur's Gate 3 is a party-based game. It's certainly going to be possible to solo the game without your party through min-maxing and skill, but the game isn't built around that.

You also keep saying that the class system nerfs the player, but it really doesn't. It's the baseline way the game works. Having classes is no more a nerf than it is nerfing for runners in a footrace to have to follow the assigned track rather than cutting across the field to the finish line. I think that D&D 5e just isn't for you, and the same probably goes for BG3. It's a game made to appeal to those who like party based, class-based roleplaying games. Just like Fallout and Skyrim are made to appeal to those who like single-player, classless roleplaying games. They're different styles of games with different strengths and weaknesses.

^This. It's Larian's game, licensed from WotC, and they both want to create a D&D game here, which in turn means using D&D rules and mechanics, which in turn means it will be a class-based game.

The OP clearly wants this to NOT be a D&D game (and perhaps be a D:OS game?). Telling Larian (and WotC) to make BG3 NOT a D&D game is remarkable hutzpah.

Here we go again. The o'l <well thats just your opinion on this matter...>
Our opinions are IRRELEVANT.
Like it or not this IS a PARTY based game based in a D&D system. Its a FACT. Hence, its also a fact that MANY people here, BG3 players, enjoy these kind of games.

If you want to REFORM the D&D system and party based games in general and DUMP DOWN everything to a point system , well, that's your opinion and I disagree!
Go give feedback on your bright ideas in the Wizards of the Coast (Wotc) forums.

I think it's fine to prefer other systems over class-based systems, but it is indeed a bit of a pointless complaint in a D&D based game. Personally, I think a really good skills system can be as good or better than class based, but it is hard to define and generally classes are an easier and more proven way of making characters customizable and add some proper reactivity. And in many classes - like Wizard - I think you should pretty much be required to dedicate most of your life to it to become really good.

I understand what you are saying in the forum, but calling people responses "pompous" seems a little aggressive. I don't think it's anyone's intent to be seen as if their opinions matter more than yours but do understand that what you are commenting on seems to be based on your own desires for what you want in a game. You compared D&D's class system to Elder Scrolls Oblivion, also ESO has has no class system as well. Keep in mind these are two separate types of games. What you see in Elder Scrolls is not what you may encounter in other RPG's. Every developer has their own vision when it comes to classes. I believe D&D like many RPG's use the traditional class systems where you are limited to your class unless you multiclass. In ESO, you can be a heavy armor mage with a sword and shield. Not so much in other games where a mage is limited to light armor and a staff or wand. At the end, it would just depend on what type of game you like but keep in mind that what you may not like does not make it wrong.

I used to think class system was inferior. I thought it was stupid, for example, that a person couldn't be good at using swords just because s/he wasn't a cleric.

Then I played some RPGs, including cRPGs, without classes. They're more complicated, and the end result is that you have to really know the system to advance smart. It's like the discussion about 3.5e versus 5e. 3.5e is versatile and if you know the feat trees well, man you can create some interesting characters who are really powerful. But the issue is that you REALLY need to know your stuff. If you don't, you wind up lost and confused and picking feats or skills that really won't help your character or party, and in the end you're replaying the game from scratch because after 3/4ths the way through you realized you didn't level up smart because you didn't understand the system like you do now. But now it's too late because you can't beat the game with your current level up choices.

This was Final Fantasy 8 for me - the first one that popped in my brain but certainly not the only one. I had no idea what I was doing for level ups, so I just picked stuff. Got to the part where you are about to face final chapter(s) and got stuck because my level ups were useless and not thought through well.

With a class system like 5e, however, it guides you more. It makes it so you don't have to be an expert on the rules or level up options to successfully build your character. It lets you focus on the overall picture and story of your character. "I want to be a rogue," as opposed to, "I want to be a...um...rogue with longsword proficiency that can also...um...shoot a bow...um...wait I also have to pick what in order to shoot well?... A feat called Precise shot? I need Point Blank Shot first? But I want my character to be good at shooting now. That sucks. If I'd known that I'd have picked Point Blank at character creation. Wait. Did you say my character sucks at longsword? Why? I didn't build up my Strength and I didn't take Weapon Focus feat OR Longsword proficiency? What feat/ability do I need to make it so I can fight well with a longsword? Wait! I can't take that now for a few more levels?"

I dunno ...
The worse misstake in Skyrim (compared to Oblivion) for me was Classes removal. :-/

I never liked this "expert in everything" kind of games ... and i fight with strong urge to name my character Mary Sue every time i create new one.

In Morrowind and Oblivion using the pre-made classes wasn't recommended by experienced players, as they often overloaded skills using certain attributes, and left others off entirely, or didn't have a good mix between the major and minor skills.

Once I learned the system I always used the custom class creator to pick my specialties and major/minor skills because you could level more effectively. In MW this wasn't such a huge issue, because scaling was not a thing in that game, but it was an issue in OB, where enemies had scaling, and if you consistently had inefficient leveling it was possible to end up with a character that was very under-powered relative to the scaled enemies.

I understand that they wanted to create a more intuitive system in Skyrim, where there was no such thing as "misc" skills which would not increase your level if you raised them, and while this was not a bad idea, it lead primarily to people basically raising every single skill and doing literally every quest line on the one character because the game allowed you to do so, all you had to do was grind a little and you could master magic, or stealth, even if you started out as a bruiser. But, it also led to poor situations where you could grind to level 30 on smithing, enchanting, and alchemy, and then get destroyed the next time you went dungeon crawling because you spent all your time leveling in crafts instead of fighting.

I'm not a big fan of the jack-of-all-trades Dragonborn, and i played that game several times with differently skilled characters, and an alternate start mod. Also, I personally played around with a skill change mod, where you picked major/minor skills that got a small boost at the beginning and leveled faster, while your misc skills leveled much slower, effectively making it like the older games, but not actually restricting your misc skills from contributing to your leveling. I liked it, it was a very good mod.

So I can appreciate the love for a "classless" system, or at least a system that allows you to effectively make your own class by picking from a set of skills and specialties, but asking for such a thing in a D&D game, a system traditionally built using fixed classes, is a foolish undertaking.

if i'm playing a game, i'm going to play it how I want..
i'm not going to follow the game-designer's principles step-by-step.
i'm going to use mods that let me tweak the rules.
i'm going to have some fun with it.

You do that.

If you've already decided what is right for you, and find yourself incapable of enjoying anything else that isn't that way, then you do you... but don't be surprised if you find that other games that actually play the way you want to play already, natively, are better suited to your wants than games that are not at all designed like that.

A game without rules is not a game - and if the only way you can have fun with a game is to cheat the rules or remove them in order to make yourself god-of-everything-forever... it's your choice and you're free to modify every game you play to be like that, if that's what makes you happy.

I don't believe so.
D&d is meant to be played with homebrew and custom rules.
In the first dungeon master's guide it alludes to this, suggesting players play it their way,

I played d&d when that first box set came out, it had about 4 classes in it. It's totally different now.

It started out with 3d6 per stat, now its a point buy system,

in early versions you could be a fighter/magic-user/thief a multi-class character,
then they tossed that out,

they continually keep making addons and compendiums and rules variant systems,

its been evolving,

it's a matter of time before it starts becoming more like what I said.

D&d is good, is one of the better RPG systems out there. I don't treat it like its a religion, I don't believe there is some kind of 'right-way' to play it. I don't believe there is some kind of 'true orthodox' method to d&d.
and I'm not sold on the class system. That is my personal opinion.

That is what this entire post is about actually.

Individuals who respond to this thread can disagree with it. But I am entitled to my opinion and to express that to Larian. You need to respect that above all things; you're not allowed to bully me or bash me on this forum.

You're allowed to create your own forum thread called "greatest ideas ever", and I promise not to say negative things on it.

People who try and play D&D like it's Skyrim is a well-known category of RPG horror stories.

Ok. Be nice people!

OP, you are ofc welcome to post your suggestion and feedback here in this forum, that's what it's for. But there is an emphasis on forum. Here all of us are allowed and I would say, even encouraged, to discuss our own and others ideas, whether we agree or disagree and argument why so. That leads to a deeper discussion and also gives Larian an imsy tiny hint if an idea would be welcomed by the larger mass(yes, very tiny because these forums do not speak for the major part of potential customers).
And while I do agree that some of us took the...less diplomatic...approach in our responses, bullying you to silence is hopefully not anyones goal. That said, your idea is a controversial one so ofc it will gain notice among us who feel different about the game.

Now, I do hope that you will forgive us and keep posting your feedback here but if you feel you got undeserved critique, I would like to tip you about the feedback option reachable via Larians launcher. That feedback goes straight to Larian only and can't be read or discussed by anyone else.

Just for the sake of clarity and correct information:


No, the standard rule method is 3d6, or 4d6 drop lowest. Point buy is presented as an alternative, variant rule as a suggestion, if a game table prefers more generally-similar ability scores between all players.


No, they haven't; in fact it's easier to multi-class than ever, now, and the spread of extra options, class subtypes and feats make it very feasible to create a hybridised and flexible character in almost any way you want, fully within the class system.

==

Following up PrivateRacoon's point, if you don't want other forum members to discuss and give their opinions on your suggestion, you can find the feedback form for Larian directly here.

You don't need to feel attacked as I have not seen anyone in this thread attack you but with all due respect it would seem to be the other way around. You seem to be very aggressive in answering responses you don't like. Like someone said, you are free to do what you want. I will say that expecting everyone to agree with you is wrong. We all have our own opinions and it seems like you have a problem with that. I think most of us here have tried to explain to you why classes are in DnD and why that may work for some. If you don't like classes in an RPG, that's on you but I think it's unfair to expect everyone here to accept that just because you don't like it. Once again, I don't think anyone here is bullying you and sorry if you feel that way.

Lucky one. xD

The thing is, any game can be played with homebrew, if the player and GM know it well enough. Hell, some are probably easier to homebrew than D&D. If you want to go through the undertaking of making D&D classless, then go for it. It'll be hard, but some people like the challenge. The crux of the matter is that classless systems aren't inherently superior in any way, nor are class-based systems. They each do what they're made for well, and they all have their fans. I can't imagine D&D moving away from a class-based system, since it's so tied into the DNA of the game. If they did try to go classless, then I'd imagine fans would have an outcry. A not unreasonable one either.

Speaking for BG3 specifically, maybe someone will mod it the way you want, but I can't imagine Larian removing the class system themselves. Firstly, because I'm not confident Wizards of the Coast would let them make such a drastic game. Completely removing the class system would probably go too far in changing the system for their liking. Secondly, that is a major change to try and implement this far into the process. A lot of stuff is already tied to classes, like dialogue options for example. Furthermore, they'd have to figure out how to justify certain classes abilities being included at all. Because for a lot of classes, they come with an inherent background lore that ties them into the setting. How would you become a paladin for instance? Or a cleric and learn those healing spells? What about being a monk once that becomes available? Monks are about more than just punching. There's a whole spiritual aspect to them as well. Hell, even being a druid would present difficulty, despite us meeting a circle of druids, since within the lore, it takes time to train, and an implication that you buy into druid faith.

I disagree with it.

The editions that got closest to what you wanted were the original 1e and 3x editions. Subsequent editions after 3x haven't been evolving into more fluid and open class structures, if anything we've gone from more open class structures into more fixed and rigid class structures with remarkably little customisation options within said class structures.

And, point buy isn't new, it's been around for multiple editions (at least 4 that I know of), but rolling for stats is still the first method that the PHB gives you for generating your stats.

you're not correct.


there is no multi-class anymore. That's an oldschool system. In baldur's gate 1 I could create a new character, an elf fighter/magic-user, for example. Then when I get xp I have to divide the xp among both classes instead of 1.

You're being totally divisive in every possible way. Basically whenever I make a comment, you butt in and tell me how wrong I am.. That seems to be fine with you. This is more than once that you have done this.

I don't get why you have to try and discredit and beat down anything I say on this forum. It's intolerable. I'm not enjoying this forum under these conditions.

Unless this stops. I'm just going to stop posting on the forum. That's not what larian really wants. For you to drive away people who have paid and have a right to express their viewpoints here.

I have no choice but to report you in hopes that you will stop your divisive commenting.

Please, Display. I think you need to take a step back and try to calm down. Maybe reread people's posts and don't take them so personal. Try to read them with a different tone in mind.

Niara is referring to D&D 5e in which you CAN multi-class easily. Larian has also said that multiclassing will be a thing. It just isn't during EA right now.

Seriously, people are trying to tell you that you are being the aggressive one, and yet you're still being very defensive. We're trying to have friendly conversation with you. I'm objectively reading the posts, and so far, I don't see anyone insulting or attacking you. For the most part, they're disagreeing with you or pointing out flaws in your arguments, but that's not the same thing. I haven't seen one person say that you're an idiot or that you're stupid or anything insulting. It might just be the way you're reading it.

I agree with Niara's statement that a game without rules is not a game. Trying to play chess with someone who just moves all the pieces however they want is no fun and frustrating, and though we're not playing together, we are forced to play the same game. Larian COULD, of course, create all sorts of options so people can play the way they want, but that only goes so far.

Part of the issue with BG3 currently is that Larian is trying to please everyone and thus not sticking to a solid rule system. So, the game is kinda a mess from a mechanics perspective. Throwing out the fundamental class system would only butcher the game completely. That's what many are trying to tell you.

@Niara's posts in this thread have been perfectly fine. The OP's posts and attitude are the problem here.

Multiclassing is an actual system in 5e.

https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Character%20Advancement#toc_2

The way multiclassing works in 5e is that whenever you advance your character level, you can choose to instead take that level in a different class (provided you meet the ability score requirements), essentially stacking that class level alongside your previous class levels. Aside from these ability score prerequisites, there's no limitation on how many classes you can multiclass into. In fact, it's totally possible to take a level in every 5e class at once if you have atleast a 13 in all ability scores except CON.

This is actually closer to how dual classing worked in adnd 2e, but unlike that system it's much easier to use, isn't limited to humans, and your character is much stronger throughout the entire process. If you want to customize your character further there's also things such as subclassing and feats that you can use to do so. For example, the Eldritch Knight subclass will give your fighter spellcasting and access to some spells from the wizard spell list. Similarly, there's also several feats that you can take to gain class features from other classes such as the skill expert feat which gives you expertise (a rogue and bard class feature) and the Metamagic adept feat which gives you the Sorcerer's metamagic class feature.

The system isn't in the game yet, but Larian has said it's planned to be there for the full release.

One of the main reasons I bought this game was for the class system,. Old school? More like timeless.