Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous vs BG3

Yeah i noticed that too and that made it to my advantage. Gargoyles were not my problem. Those Naabasu that level drain me are more annoying. Hence casting Death Ward on your main is really a nice thing to do.

In the case of the Arueshalae, the subclass doesn't matter because of her stats, they are terribly exaggerated.
In fact, the only thing she losing is a pet, but the ranger bound is still quite strong.
From what I tested, she achieves a much better accuracy than Lann, who is pure Zen Archer.
The only problem is spell resistance which sometimes blocks buffs for some reason.

As for demons, I am aware that most of them are resistant to electricity, but in the case of blackwater they got 10 or 15 electricity regeneration. At least they fixed it fairly quickly.
The problem with the ascended element is that if the player does not know about bracers (they have not worked for a long time), there is absolutely no reason to choose this talent over fire. There are 4-5 electric spells in the game and half of them are terribly weak. The first spell that makes sense is chain lighting which is a level 6 spell.

what i like alot about pathfinder ruleset or dnd3.5e? was that composite longbow allow you to add strength to the damage where lann has an edge over arueshalae. 22 DEX is sure nice for a starting +6 to hit. however, you don't get her early. i still choose lann as he can have an option for a sabertooth. yes arueshalae has advantage over lann. the way i play it was that lann is for early mid game and i have him swapped for arue mid to late game. ranger favored enemy is truly nice that is for sure and very potent for tough enemies.

thats what i like about pathfinder wrath of righteous. initially i omitted nenio. and turn out she make alot of fights so freaking easy. again i don't have much issue on blackwater but honestly i do find a lot of lightning wand lying around to last hit those augmented humans. also if not mistaken, camellia (she is useful is she not?) has call lightning.

you are right on the stormlord resolve bracers. it's probably one of the itemization for a spontaneous lightning caster build which if your main happened to be one. i usually have ember on ascended fire. i think her late game spells like chain lightning and stormbolts come pretty late game which pointless to focus on lightning. also not sure but i think if someone has shocking grasp that probably works too?

in short, pathfinder wrath of the righteous is truly a masterpiece for myself and really love every single bit of it. i do understand however, it may not be for everyone.

after playing solasta for awhile, there still not one ruleset that i truly like. i really like a new version of ruleset where it combines pathfinder ruleset with dnd5e. the only think i hated about dnd5e was concentration.

Pathfinder WoTr has about a dozen things I do NOT like.
But over 100 things I love.
That sums up this content packed game for me There is so much in there, you could nit pick anything for eternity.

Quantity doesn't mean much when the impact of each negative is so high that it blots out the positive.

I'd be fine with the Pathfinder games if all the issues they had were the usual CRPG jank, bugs, filler-y combat, and wonky balance here and there - that's what I am used to. But they are not well-put together at the core. Again, what use is the whole class spectrum and hundreds of features if many of them are absolutely useless on higher difficulties? Why'd you balance the game so that you have very limited freedom in actually making your character viable?

For the record - I was very excited about and invested into Kingmaker back when it first came out, and would chuckle at the people complaining how the beginning is unplayably difficult (to be fair, I think everybody remembers the utter idiocy that were the spider swarms on release, and how they had to patch in you getting alchemist's fires to deal with them). Then I ran into a playthrough-killing bug about at about 3/5 of the length (post-Vordakai) and gave up on it for two years. Replaying it after it got all the patches and the DLC started out really promising, but the further I got past my original stopping point, the more obvious it became how it runs out of anything interesting at what should be the most exciting moment (the coronation) and becomes stupidly obtuse and loses any sense of pacing and balancing - like how you are more or less encouraged to save-scum the 40+ DC skill checks to get the thousands of XP you get from them. The combat turned into a boring steamroll until I hit Pitax palace and there turned into a chore rather than a challenge. There wasn't a single unique enemy in the game that was nearly as threatening in any way as the mobs of palace guards/trolls or the Wild Hunt later on. I kinda lost faith in Owlcat then, and playing the Varnhold DLC only frustrated me further (good luck beating it if you construct your party based on the three characters you start with rather than your main one).

All the complaints people have about WotR seem to imply that they really learned nothing, and made an even bigger, bloated-er, and less structurally sound game because it sure is a great idea to extend your ambitions when you couldn't properly assemble a smaller project. Eh, no accounting for taste, I guess. Or I am simply burnt out on the older formula by now, and looking forward to the more unconventional approaches like the one Larian takes.

You are completely right. I liked Kingmaker and for all it's problems it had an excuse of being first game they made. What made me particularly disappointed with WoTR is that while extending the class/subclass pool seemed like a good idea, the problem was implementation. First off at release tons of new classes were simply broken or lacking core features and to this day AFAIK some classes lack some core abilities that they should have. I also remember some ability descriptions being copy-pasted from another class without even bothering to change mentions to the original class (Hellknight Signifier). At least half of subclasses had some mechanical issues. And why add 5 archetypes to Bloodrager, when one of them is superior to every other one and is almost never allowed at any reasonable table.

Secondly, a lot of classes were made unattractive, due to mythic paths often being anti-synergistic with them. Obvious combination of inquisitor/Aeon? Guess your not using half of your class features, since your swift actions will be taken by all the Aeon stuff. There are plenty of examples of that. Mechanically using Swift Action in RTWP is still dubious (unless you time them in some arbitrary way, the eat your other actions), so you are forced into TB with some classes. But then, sorry, stuff like Leading Strike mythic ability is now operating at 5% effectiveness.

Not to mention game is filled with hidden homebrews. Larian seems to be clear on what is being changed, while Owlcat doesn't change anything in spell/ability description but mechanics are different. F.e. Shatter Defenses which is a must for any of the higher difficulties is just making all intimidated foes flat-footed since Kingmaker, which is nothing like RAW. Charisma double-stacking for AC is another dumb implementation of the rules. Not to mention hundreds of little things. Magic Missile getting bonus damage from Mark of Justice for each missile, making it the best spell in the game for boss killing. Touch of Glory giving you +1/Cleric Level Charisma for all things charisma is used, until you decide to use it for a skill check. For someone who played 1e Pathfinder for couple of years, a lot of times when I check how something works in game, it works against RAW. Most modders pay more attention to what they release.

Don't get me wrong it's not a bad game for one playthrough, but the final product that Owlcat developed is a bit scammy.

Yessss! I agree 100%. I think Owlcat is really bad at adapting ttrpgs into the framework of their own game engine. When people say that Larian should take notes from them, I am like "please dont". Cause Larian actually adapts and not just copypaste a system, ignoring the obvs limitations btw the mediums.

You forget about the ranger spells. Hurricane bow and vital sense are doing their job.

Huh. I like both games so far. I don't quite understand why you all hate Pathfinder so much.

I will say, though... The spider swarms we're absolutely stupid.

While I absolutely adore WotR and thought Kingmaker was pretty neat and cool, I can definitelyunderstand why people might not like them, and why some people could just be incredibly turned off by the game. I think there's definitely a group of people for whom the gameis absolutely for them and hits on a lot of things they really like, and a group who will like it despite it's flaws. But it's also a game where for a subset of people, it is just really not for them and will be quite frustrating. I think the former two groups are bigger than the latter group, but the latter group aren't wrong about a lot of the stuff they don't like about it.

It's just Unity they're using, though. All the corners they've driven themselves into because they can't make it work right are mostly their fault, really. Obsidian did manage to figure out how to use it for both PoE games and Tyranny (and Tides of Numenera by inXile by an extension), and Owlcat are supposedly a veteran team (having worked a lot on Nival's earlier games, judging by their portfolio - which are quite great, but they seem to carry the similar design screw-ups with them for more than 20 years at this point), so them being unable to make seemingly trivial features and mechanics work right despite taking on a mission to carry them over should not be blamed on the engine here - or rather, it could be blamed on them not making their own (like Larian did with Divinity engine).

For me, it's Owlcat's quantity over quality approach, at least for WOTR (didn't play KM).

Big thing - crusade, for example. It's an unbalanced, watered down HOMM that's mostly disconnected from your traditional party adventures. Yes, you can set it to auto - but in that state it can screw up some of your mythic-related quests for some paths. And if it can be auto'd - what was the point of making it the way it is in the first place?

Classes and subclasses - yes, there are a lot but what's the point if it starts lessening the choice when you understand that any more of less serious enemies will have inflated AC and are capable of one-shotting or nearly one-shotting you. So even if you're not minmaxing there's a major incentice to optimize, hence lessening the choice. Or you want to play a blaster caster? Well, good luck, most of the demons have resitances to elements; worse if you want lightning as there'll be outright immunity, and you can't bypass these until the end of Act 1 for your chosen element.
And on that side - I'm going through act 2 (second-ish playthrough) and it's insane how stronger a fully-buffed party is compared to an unbuffed one. And with Enduring Spells mythic line it becomes a play on how many buffs you can stack for 24 hour duration.
Mythic paths - while any class can choose any there are still very clear synergies for some, especially for paths that can merge spellbooks.
Essentially, the game GIVES you options but EXPECTS you to play in a specific way.

TB vs RTWP. TB slows down the game to a crawl... and the game was made with RTWP in mind so it should be better? Well, personally, I find WOTR RTWP hectic, especially if you want to actively use offensive spells due to how much can be happening on screen most of the time.

I do like the story and characters though, and that's pretty much the only thing that still keeps me in the game. Hopefully I won't burn out this time...

With Kingmaker, I really wanted to like it. I was enjoying it at first, even. I wouldn't care about it all that much (like how I'd pretty much forgotten about Dragon Age: Inquisition once I've beaten it a single time) if I didn't expect it to be great in the first place. It really disappointed me to the point of not wanting to even bother with WotR and not feeling like playing through it again as a different character. All the choices and options it seems to give you mostly amount to bugger all, or there's always the "right" choice, and you just get nothing or hinder yourself for no reason if you don't pick it. Like how you can not have certain party members around because you don't want them around (what good-aligned character would want Jaethal with them, for instance?), but all that does is deprive you of content and XP that the game is quite stingy with (a strange choice considering that they have a really good UI for planning out your character and you'd expect that you would be able to reasonably get to level 20 - myself, I finished at 17), and, at least in my case, you get nonsensical resolutions out of the blue (I kicked Jaethal out and still had the scene where Tristian kills her in the HatEOT).

And all the little things would just add up over the course of the playthrough too - like how I got one of my characters perma-cursed somewhere and nobody in the game could remove it because its DC was too high, and the NPC clerics don't actually cast spells but just read scrolls from your inventory (probably the dumbest implementation of that mechanic ever), or the Pitax-related kingdom bullcrap setting some of my stats to 0 so I could never upgrade them again because there wasn't enough game left to recover from that. The timer that upset many people didn't really bother me, as it's pretty generous apart from a few exceptions, but what did was the static world that wouldn't progress unless you intervene personally despite there being a moving clock in most cases. Like how the final quest in Valerie's storyline would just keep reducing your culture indefinitely until you go take care of it, or how neither the Temple of the Elk nor an obvious river crossing near your capital ever get repaired "because it'd take years", despite you building a freaking city from scratch in about two. The whole kingdom thing was also really shallow in the end. A bunch of copy-pasted villages with a different artisan that you can place wherever you feel like, but you never build roads, or establish camps and garrisons - nothing. The land remains just as untamed in practice as it was back when you just started, no matter what the projects you can pursue claim. It really kills any sense of accomplishment from kingdom management, which isn't too well-implemented to begin with.

+1

not mentioning doesn't mean i forget

i have 4 playthroughs with Solasta already. so i probably moving back to pathfinder wrath of the righteous. after trying dnd5e it's too simplified compared to pathfinder. i'm having great fun with multiclassing too with solasta. that's said can't wait for baldur's gate 3. i do hope they put in random encounter though.

Hope no, I hate savescumming in Owlcat games, and I'd rather not have to repeat that in bg3.
Nobody will tell me that this is not a problem, considering that one or two hits are usually fatal and resurrection scrolls are too expensive for how the game works.
If the price were the same as for bg3 (or any other game), they weren't a problem.
The difficulty curve at low levels is just bad, and Owlcat didn't even try to pretend to be worried about it.

not sure how you play the game. i play on core difficulty and the only time i use a resurrection scroll was melazmera on chapter 4 IIRC. and at chapter 4 i have aplenty of gold that i didn't get to use it. i'm not sure this has been changed or not but my completed playthrough was before the DLC.

I never quite understood why people disliked him! :o I got slightly shocked when I realized how popular he was to hate. He was one of my favorites (although tbh, I did not dislike any companion in PoE1 x] ). Did I as a player or my character pretty much ever agree with him? Nope, but I still liked him a lot and I found his character fun to bring along for the snide comments alone. c: I was really bummed out that there was no mention of him anywhere in PoE2 and that I couldn't even ask Magran about it. :<


Absolutely loved the concept. BUT! I hated how companion conversation were "time-locked" to the main story. I had almost 12 irl hours of complete silence from my companions as I was doing side quests - just to have them all jump me at the same time once I started progressing the main story. It was really immersion breaking and I am *still* salty about it. But if they could solve that by letting companions interact even while not progressing the main story - then I'd be the first one to encourage Obsidian to do more stuff like that in upcoming games! :]


I was not at all as fond of the new ones as the old ones and that fact is... Least said reflected upon my selection of party members. I found Xoti plain boring, Tekehu wasn't much better imo, Serafen was fine but he was not getting along with my character and Maia was great - but she was filling the exactly same function as my MC combat-wise. :< I did like most of the "CR-characters" (aka, Ydwin, Fassina, Rekke etc), but they were - like you said - nowhere near as fleshed out and hence it just didn't feel as fun to bring them along. :<

I was mainly talking about Kingsmaker. The WotR is significantly less lethal compared to the Kingsmaker, though that could be a matter of better-built companions. And of course I'm talking about Unfair.

We're talking about the first two acts when you don't have a lot of gold yet. In act 3, that's not the slightest problem anymore.
In Kingmaker Act 1, the F8 button is probably the most used button, even in the case of an optimized character. You are able to achieve AC high enough that most enemies will only hit you at 19-20, but still if you hit you, you will die to a hit. Unless you get a bad iniciative roll then you will die in the first round.
It is worse when the enemies suddenly gets bored with your character and attacks one of your companions (it happens rarely but often enough that it is irritating), which ends with his death and loading the game.
Assuming you don't buy anything in 1 act, you will be able to afford 2 scrolls of raise dead.
You also get one for free. The problem is that you still have to spend quite a lot of gold on other scrolls, potions, otherwise you will need a lot more.
Delay Poision and Protection from Fire spells are 100% necessary if you want to complete the act. If you don't have anyone who can cast Mage Armor and Barkskin, you also need potions.