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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I just can help the feeling that this is once again work for options. laugh
Create whatever half, or fully automatic stuff you want ... and just add option for people who are not bothered to confrim popup every few seconds ...

Everyone will be happy. laugh

And the game will be released in 2026. It was already delayed way too much and looks very outdated. At this point the focus should be on polishing and not on adding features that old Divinity code can't handle.

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Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Just because DnD purists want a videogame simulator of the rules they obsess over doesn't mean that the majority of casual players will like it.

Out of curiosity, where are you seeing these "DnD purists" who "want a videogame simulator of the rules" and who "obsess over" said rules. I'm interested to know where you're interacting with people like that, because there certainly aren't any of those kinds of folks around here... in which case, you should probably leave your denigrating language out of posts you make here, where such people aren't really present to defend themselves.

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Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
And the game will be released in 2026.
Im affraid your crystal ball is cracked. laugh
Or broken in some other way ... since it gives you inacurate prophecies. smile

Nah, jokes aside ...
Such piece of code would add most likely one week ... month, if everything would go extremely unwell. laugh
But certainly not 4 years. laugh

Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
It was already delayed way too much
Not at all is too much? O_o

I mean, i know start of Early Acess was "delayed" for ... how much it was 2 or 3 weeks if i remember corectly?
But if i recall Swen, it was bcs of some really bad bug, they had to fix ... bcs it caused really heavy instability ... so the game would be unplayable anyway.

But since no date was set so far for final release ... nor even met, obviously ... how exactly even could this game be delayed? O_o

//Edit:
Originally Posted by Niara
because there certainly aren't any of those kinds of folks around here...
Im affraid i must disagree with this sentence ...

While it may be difficiult to find even single person who wants everything exactly by the book and not even a slightest change ever ...
Comunity as a whole contains many fragments of such person ...

One person want spells to be more like DnD ...
One person want monsters to be more like DnD ...
One person want reactions to be more like DnD ...
One person want weapons to be more like DnD ...
One person want magical artefacts to be more like DnD ...
One person want resting systems to be more like DnD ...
Etc.

And if you merge them all together, you get exactly that ... DnD purist who basicaly wants game simulator of tabletop rules. laugh
So i wouldnt discart this desire ... since it IS there ... in some form. smile

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 19/07/22 09:53 AM.

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Lol. It IS a D&D game. Right? D&D world? Why is it so bad that people want it to be more like D&D and less like DOS 2?

And more D&D doesn't mean pure D&D. Many of us "purists" have come up with many non-5e concepts to try to help make the game better.

For example, I don't mind shove going farther than 5 feet. I just don't like having duergar shove Lae'zel 60 feet off a ledge into lava. 10? Maybe 15 at most, I could see, but 60? I literally measured it with the movement tool. 60.

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Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Solasta reactions are horrible.

I know you wish really, REALLY hard for people to agree with you on this, but for the vast majority of players who are actually familiar with both games that's absolutely not the case.

Time to accept it and move on, maybe.


Also, as we discussed a million times already, if the issue with controllable reactions is that "pop ups look clunky" maybe an area of improvement should be precisely to improve in how they are presented, rather than just automatize everything.

Last edited by Tuco; 19/07/22 10:50 AM.
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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Solasta reactions are horrible.

I know you wish really, REALLY hard for people to agree with you on this, but for the vast majority of players who are actually familiar with both games that's absolutely not the case.

Time to accept it and move on, maybe.


Also, as we discussed a million times already, if the issue with controllable reactions is that "pop ups look clunky" maybe an area of improvement should be precisely to improve in how they are presented, rather than just automatize everything.

For the most part, I agree, but my paladin was annoying in Solasta after awhile. Every time he hit, popup window. Smite 1, 2 or 3? Or cancel? Yeah. That got a bit annoying.

But MOST reactions and such in Solasta were quick windows. Click. Gone. Super easy. Hardly slowed down combat at all.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Im affraid i must disagree with this sentence ...

While it may be difficiult to find even single person who wants everything exactly by the book and not even a slightest change ever ...
Comunity as a whole contains many fragments of such person ...

One person want spells to be more like DnD ...
One person want monsters to be more like DnD ...
One person want reactions to be more like DnD ...
One person want weapons to be more like DnD ...
One person want magical artefacts to be more like DnD ...
One person want resting systems to be more like DnD ...
Etc.

And if you merge them all together [...]

Doesn't sound like you're disagreeing to me. Sounds like you're agreeing with me that such a person is not, in fact, here... since in order to achieve such an entity, as you say yourself, you'd have to merge many different people together... and even then, by your own reasoning, you'd just end up with someone who wanted more than is currently present, and more similar to the system it was advertised as... not someone who demands a pure and literal translation.

I do, indeed, want all of those things you mentioned, personally... and yet I am not a D&D purist, I am not obsessed with the rules, and I am not wanting nor expecting the game to be a strict 5e simulator - and again, no such person exists here, or ever has to my knowledge. Some people like to joust at windmills on distant hills, however, so they imagine that anyone asking for more D&D in this advertised-as D&D game must be a raving zealot... because that is the only way their derision seems at all rational, when in reality it isn't, even remotely.

I'd like this D&D game to more resemble the system it was advertised as being a game for; I'm wanting (but no longer expecting or even hoping for, let's be honest), a video game that is clearly based in 5e D&D and is a reasonable adaptation of the system to a video game format.

Last edited by Niara; 19/07/22 10:55 AM.
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
One person want spells to be more like DnD ...
One person want monsters to be more like DnD ...
One person want reactions to be more like DnD ...
One person want weapons to be more like DnD ...
One person want magical artefacts to be more like DnD ...
One person want resting systems to be more like DnD ...
Etc.

And if you merge them all together, you get exactly that ... DnD purist who basicaly wants game simulator of tabletop rules. laugh
So i wouldnt discart this desire ... since it IS there ... in some form. smile
It's almost like it's supposed to be a game based on an OFFICIAL D&D license, rather than your average backyard table with a million of questionable homebrew rules thrown in for shit and giggles.

Then again, I'm never even been particularly invested in D&D itself, so it would be already something if they could at least come up with changes that feel like actual improvements, rather than "Amateur DM thinks he knows better and messes up everything he touches".
It's somewhat hilarious that all the greatest mechanical improvements we got in EA so far consisted pretty much in Larian reverting some of the most questionable changes they introduced to begin with.
Remember when doing a couple of steps around an opponent was enough to get ADVANTAGE, to name one?

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Originally Posted by Niara
Sounds like you're agreeing with me that such a person is not, in fact, here...
All i can agree on is that i didnt seen him, or her, or it, or w/e else people call themselves today. laugh

Just wanted to point out that your reaction seemed dismissive to me ... like "either show me the person, or stfu" ... not quite this way since i know(?) you are not so straight forward agresive, but simmilar.

That was where my disagreement was ...
Like i dunno ... i was trying to point you that maybe finding single person who wants everything is not so important as to realize that if (or when) you take under concideration wider amount of people, you get close to (even tho maybe not exactly the same) desire that imaginary person would have.
And that was the point ... the desire, not the person.

Originally Posted by Niara
I do, indeed, want all of those things you mentioned, personally... and yet I am not a D&D purist
I guess that depend on definition. wink

All we can say for sure it that you wouldnt concider yourself one. laugh


Originally Posted by Tuco
It's almost like it's supposed to be a game based on an OFFICIAL D&D license, rather than your average backyard table with a million of questionable homebrew rules thrown in for shit and giggles.
I have litteraly no idea what were you trying to say. O_o

Originally Posted by Tuco
It's somewhat hilarious that all the greatest mechanical improvements we got in EA so far consisted pretty much in Larian reverting some of the most questionable changes they introduced to begin with.
Well ... maybe ...
And maybe my standards were lowered by the time of EA ... but im glad that at least sometimes is our amateur DM willing and able to admit that not all his new ideas are pure gold, and reverts them back or at least closer to RAW. smile


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Cut for length
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
The only thing to add is "toggles" in the variation windows if it make sense and a mechanic to select our target (which is something they should add at least for bless/bane/sleep/...)

Of course it would require a bit of job on every reactions. But they'll have to create something anyway.
Selecting our target should work with the current system since we can select to attack. When we cast Shield or Hellish Rebuke we should be able to select the enemy who we want it to trigger with. It would be better than having no control. I still think a toggle system would be best though. And bane, bless, and sleep should have definitely been fixed.

I think that we should be able, when we CAST the "reaction", to choose which toggle we want to be available on the target.

If I want a combat inspiration for damage roll on Lae'Zel...

Currently :
- cast combat inspiration
- click Lae'zel
- select Lae'zel (=> she has now 5 new toggles)
- toggles OFF 4 reactions

What I'd like :
- cast combat inspiration and select "damage roll" in the variation windows (or "toggle OFF" attack roll, ST, skill check, AC bonus)
- click Lae'zel (=> she has now a single "damage roll" toggle)

This would allow us to go deeper into reaction management on top of being a better gameplay imho.
We'd still don't have a perfect control but at least we could choose what we like during our turns rather than constantly having to toggle OFF options we're not interrested in.

TBH I could live with my Lae'Zel using his bonus to damage roll not to the best target I'd personnaly have chosen if it trigger during the ennemy's turn... But I have a hard time with the "now you have to manage Lae'zels toggles or her bonus is totally out of control".

Depending the reactions we could also be able to target specific ennemies.

In exemple cast "riposte"on my fighter the only variation is the target(s).
A ON/OFF toggle appear on my fighter's hotbar but the reaction will only trigger on the target(s) I've chosen.
If I want to change the target, I just have to "recast" riposte and select another one.


I have never used combat inspiration so not sure if my idea is similar to yours. My idea is for something like Shield, we cast it then select an enemy, the next attack that enemy makes against us that hits would then trigger Shield. Not an ideal system but would at least allow us to control it a bit more, the enemy in our face with a flaming greataxe will probably do more damage than the one with a basic bow so we would select the one with the greataxe even if the one with the bow goes next. For something like Hellish Rebuke, we cast it then select the enemy we want it to affect. It would be less likely to be wasted on the enemy with one hit point this way. I would prefer full control over all reactions and when to use them, but this idea I think would be doable with how things are currently set up.

Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Just because DnD purists want a videogame simulator of the rules they obsess over doesn't mean that the majority of casual players will like it.
The lovely thing about toggle options in the menu is that these "casual" players will not have to ever worry about not wasting reactions and deciding the best tactical uses of said reactions if they don't have the option to do so selected.

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Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Solasta reactions are horrible. Pop-ups are clunky and will become very tedious to deal with if you have a bard in a party. Just because DnD purists want a videogame simulator of the rules they obsess over doesn't mean that the majority of casual players will like it.

I agree, 100%. I have zero interest in popups throughout the game. I shudder even thinking about it.

As for DnD purists, of course they exist.

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Originally Posted by Zarna
Cut for length
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
The only thing to add is "toggles" in the variation windows if it make sense and a mechanic to select our target (which is something they should add at least for bless/bane/sleep/...)

Of course it would require a bit of job on every reactions. But they'll have to create something anyway.
Selecting our target should work with the current system since we can select to attack. When we cast Shield or Hellish Rebuke we should be able to select the enemy who we want it to trigger with. It would be better than having no control. I still think a toggle system would be best though. And bane, bless, and sleep should have definitely been fixed.

I think that we should be able, when we CAST the "reaction", to choose which toggle we want to be available on the target.

If I want a combat inspiration for damage roll on Lae'Zel...

Currently :
- cast combat inspiration
- click Lae'zel
- select Lae'zel (=> she has now 5 new toggles)
- toggles OFF 4 reactions

What I'd like :
- cast combat inspiration and select "damage roll" in the variation windows (or "toggle OFF" attack roll, ST, skill check, AC bonus)
- click Lae'zel (=> she has now a single "damage roll" toggle)

This would allow us to go deeper into reaction management on top of being a better gameplay imho.
We'd still don't have a perfect control but at least we could choose what we like during our turns rather than constantly having to toggle OFF options we're not interrested in.

TBH I could live with my Lae'Zel using his bonus to damage roll not to the best target I'd personnaly have chosen if it trigger during the ennemy's turn... But I have a hard time with the "now you have to manage Lae'zels toggles or her bonus is totally out of control".

Depending the reactions we could also be able to target specific ennemies.

In exemple cast "riposte"on my fighter the only variation is the target(s).
A ON/OFF toggle appear on my fighter's hotbar but the reaction will only trigger on the target(s) I've chosen.
If I want to change the target, I just have to "recast" riposte and select another one.


I have never used combat inspiration so not sure if my idea is similar to yours. My idea is for something like Shield, we cast it then select an enemy, the next attack that enemy makes against us that hits would then trigger Shield. Not an ideal system but would at least allow us to control it a bit more, the enemy in our face with a flaming greataxe will probably do more damage than the one with a basic bow so we would select the one with the greataxe even if the one with the bow goes next. For something like Hellish Rebuke, we cast it then select the enemy we want it to affect. It would be less likely to be wasted on the enemy with one hit point this way. I would prefer full control over all reactions and when to use them, but this idea I think would be doable with how things are currently set up.

Yes, this is exactly my idea.

But for some reactions I think it would be very hard to add.
Shield, Hellush Rebuke, Counterspell, Riposte and so on...for a lot of reactions the only thing to custom would be creatures that trigger the reaction.

=> "cast" + select target (ennemy) = done

But I guess it would be harder to implement more "complex" reactions. In exemple it's easy to allow us to cast bardic inspiration (with lets say the +2AC bonus on a character) on a ally.
But it would be harder to then say "the +2AC bonus only trigger if this ennemy attack". It would require 2 customizable layers rather than 1.

=> cast + select target (ally)
=> select ally + select target (ennemy)

I could live with some of such reactions triggering on the next target.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 19/07/22 01:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Alyssa_Fox
Solasta reactions are horrible. Pop-ups are clunky and will become very tedious to deal with if you have a bard in a party. Just because DnD purists want a videogame simulator of the rules they obsess over doesn't mean that the majority of casual players will like it.

I agree, 100%. I have zero interest in popups throughout the game. I shudder even thinking about it.

As for DnD purists, of course they exist.

The popups really aren't that bad in Solasta. Like I said, paladin smite popup is annoying because it's every time you hit, which is almost every attack, and when the paladin gets 2 attacks... Ugh.

But things like Counter spell work pretty well. Enemy is casting a Fireball. Popup. Do you want to use Counter spell? Click Yes. Shows you cast a spell to counter enemy spell. Doesn't happen that often and it's super quick. Same with Shield.

And some Reactions are simpler and could be handled via Scripted Reactions. What I mean is how Larian kinda has AOO enabled currently. If enabled, and an enemy meets trigger requirements, the Reaction triggers. This could easily be done with Shield. When you enable Shield spell as a Reaction, you get to pick "Any Attack" or "Magic Missile Only" or both. Now, no popup for that.

Smite, which isn't a reaction, could be handled mostly like how BG3 has implemented the Battlemaster combat maneuvers. The only time a pop-up would then appear is when the paladin does an AOO. Then it would ask if they want to use Smite when hitting as an AOO. Again, wouldn't be too often.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I have litteraly no idea what were you trying to say. O_o
Well, I don't think it's a problem of how I said it.
Then again maybe my English is failing me.

Do you want the the alternate wording?
An officially licensed title is not (and should not be) the same as a gathering of four friends with a free pass to come up with whatever stupid homebrew rule then want.
It should stick to the source of the license as close as reasonably possible.


Quote
Originally Posted by Tuco
It's somewhat hilarious that all the greatest mechanical improvements we got in EA so far consisted pretty much in Larian reverting some of the most questionable changes they introduced to begin with.
Well ... maybe ...
And maybe my standards were lowered by the time of EA ... but im glad that at least sometimes is our amateur DM willing and able to admit that not all his new ideas are pure gold, and reverts them back or at least closer to RAW. smile
Well, I'm glad too, but that's not the point.
The point is that the very fact that any major improvement we got so far consisted fundamentally in Larian removing some of their "homebrew" proves that maybe disliking some of their past and current choices is not really about "being a D&D fanatic" and there was something wrong with their decisions.

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Originally Posted by JandK
I agree, 100%.
My god, NO!
YOU? OF ALL PEOPLE???

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Do you want the the alternate wording?
It helped, thanks.

But i still dont see relation to what you quoted from me. laugh

Originally Posted by Tuco
It should stick to the source of the license as close as reasonably possible.
This alone is kinda tricky sentence ...
Since "reasonably" is the part that will (obviously i would say) differ from person to person. smile

But that is the same "based on" topic we had several times ...

And i still believe that it doesnt really matter if Developer refuses to make some mechanic same as it is in tabletop rules, bcs they cant find a way to implement it from technical point of view ... or they can, but dont want to, since they find that way to be boring.
Both can be described as "dont translate well in videogame" ... and that is exactly what we get.

Originally Posted by Tuco
The point is that the very fact that any major improvement we got so far consisted fundamentally in Larian removing some of their "homebrew" proves that maybe disliking some of their past and current choices is not really about "being a D&D fanatic" and there was something wrong with their decisions.
Oh that ...
Yeah, i agree ... whatever is that worth. laugh


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Originally Posted by GM4Him
The popups really aren't that bad in Solasta. Like I said, paladin smite popup is annoying because it's every time you hit, which is almost every attack, and when the paladin gets 2 attacks... Ugh.

But things like Counter spell work pretty well. Enemy is casting a Fireball. Popup. Do you want to use Counter spell? Click Yes. Shows you cast a spell to counter enemy spell. Doesn't happen that often and it's super quick. Same with Shield.

And some Reactions are simpler and could be handled via Scripted Reactions. What I mean is how Larian kinda has AOO enabled currently. If enabled, and an enemy meets trigger requirements, the Reaction triggers. This could easily be done with Shield. When you enable Shield spell as a Reaction, you get to pick "Any Attack" or "Magic Missile Only" or both. Now, no popup for that.

Smite, which isn't a reaction, could be handled mostly like how BG3 has implemented the Battlemaster combat maneuvers. The only time a pop-up would then appear is when the paladin does an AOO. Then it would ask if they want to use Smite when hitting as an AOO. Again, wouldn't be too often.
+1 Smite is, imo, the ability that least needs a pop-up and can best be translated into a toggle (perferably) or hotbar icon. With a toggle that refunds your slot on a missed attack, the only difference between it and RAW is that you can no longer crit-fish smites.

So if you have Paladin Smites is implemented as such, you'll have *many* less pop-ups. If you also you don't have a character with Protection Fighting Style or have it be a toggle/hotbar-activated stance, and (I'll even concede this) you leave AOOs as a toggle, then having ALL other reactions be pop-ups would be a miniscule percentage of your time spent playing. And well worth the flexibility, especially for powerful abilities like Counterspell that you really don't want to waste on an enemy cantrip.

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I mean seriously. For my Sorcerer in Solasta with Counterspell and Shield, the number of times the popup occurs is minimal, and when it does, you WANT it to pop up.

Enemy mage is casting Lightning Bolt, about to fry your entire party because you mistakingly put them all in a line. Popup. Counterspell? YES!!!!! THANK GOD!!! Animation of my Sorcerer casting Counterspell. Lightning Bolt dispelled.

I will ABSOLUTELY be okay with the game pausing for a brief moment to give me a popup to let me counter that spell.

But, yeah... minor spells and abilities... no. Let's do some sort of Scripted Reactions or something to avoid popup windows for those.

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I dont remember that you know the spell casted before using your counterspell in Solasta... bad memory ?

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I dont remember that you know the spell casted before using your counterspell in Solasta... bad memory ?
Characters with arcana (and/or spellcaster PCs? Or only characters that *can* cast counterspell?) automatically make an arcana check to identify any spell cast by enemies that they can see. This happens before the "Counterspell?" pop-up.

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