Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Mega-threads and Guides Reactions like Solasta!

Overwatch in Xcom to name one is a great tactical option that is planned in advance. Such option(s) exist in many tactical turn based game and I disagree that it is a failure.

With all options available in DnD, it would add a lot of depth to combat on top of adding a fun gameplay.

In the end, not reacting a shove with feather fall because you may have to counterspell a fireball and then not using your reaction not to waste a spellslot to counter a firebolt is not a lot more than "planning".

Overwatch is NOT a reaction in D&D terms. It would be the equivalent of a D&D ready action.

Yeah, and what ?

Reactions just have other triggers + other effects.
The only significant difference is that you're planning their uses during the ennemies turn rather than during yours.

It could be boring but there would not have much differences if you were able to plan as much reactions as you wish (with the targets and triggers) during your turn.
You'd just eventually have to toggle your feather fall OFF depending the initiative order. Or you could only prepare a counterspell that trigger against lvl3+ spell if that's your priority...

OK. I think what we're saying here is that Reactions COULD be done as more of a Scripted/Preset Reactions. However, if you really want Reactions to be done so that players have full control over them, you need popups to occur when a reaction is possibly triggered. Otherwise, with any kind of Scripted/Preset Reactions there are absolutely going to be times when your characters react in ways you don't want them to.

Even now, with AOO being a Preset Reaction, there are times my characters use an AOO when I'd rather they didn't. Baby goblin comes running past Lae'zel with 2 HP left, and Lae'zel uses her Reaction to hack him to pieces. But, a moment later, the ogre I'd rather have her AOO on takes off running right up to my wizard and smashes him in the head. With the popups, I'd be able to reject baby goblin running past. Let him get to Gale. Who cares? He might do like 5 damage. Then I'd still have my Reaction to hit the ogre with 2d6+4 (and being the Blooded Greataxe it does more to wounded enemies) and possibly take down the already wounded ogre who has 15 HP (especially since Lae'zel has, at this point, Great Weapon Master). And, let's face it, if the AI determined that Lae'zel would get an AOO on the ogre, it might not try to run past her to get to Gale. Thus, by implementing the popup windows, it gives us, the player, more control and lets us make the call even on something as basic as AOO.

I'm just saying, they COULD do it with the whole Preset Reactions thing, but it won't be as good. There are going to absolutely be plenty of times when players get frustrated because their Reactions were wasted on stupid stuff. Yes. It'll slow down combat a smidge and make it flow less smoothly, but it will definitely give players more control.

The issue in your exemple (it is an issue with the current system, definitely!) is probably one of the easiest to solve : Just "cast AOO" with the target "ogre" during Lae'zel's turn.
You know the initiative order. If the baby was playing after the ogre, you would probably have "casted AOO" on both. If the ogre doesn't move, Lae'zel is going to attack the baby if he's moving.

Plenty ? You would probably have a bit less control and a bit more things to do during your turns (check or plan your reactions, eventually).
But with a few more tools I'm not as sure as you are in the end, really.

That absolutely SUCKS, by the way. Far more than being "slowed" by a pop-up.

Yeah. I gotta agree. Pre-planning all your reactions is going to be a lot more of a pain in the butt in the long run, and for what? Just so you don't get a popup when a reaction could potentially be triggered?

I'm thinking about Passive Mode and Dual Weapon Attack right now with the game as is. I don't like to kill Mari and Barton and all their mercenaries. They're just treasure hunters. Ya know? They're not necessarily bad people. So, I set it to Passive Mode. Suddenly, I'm killing skeletons and later goblins at the grove, and I'm wondering, "Why are there stars over their heads? Oh yeah! That's right! I forgot to turn off Passive Mode."

The same happens to me with Dual Weapon Attack Toggle. Every freaking time I play the game, I usually have someone with two shortswords or daggers or whatever. And every freaking time I forget to turn off that stupid Dual Weapon Toggle. And now, it's a tiny button that's even easier to forget, and the difference between Dual and Single is so miniscule, it drives me crazy. And every single time, I waste at least 1 or 2 Off-Handed attacks before I remember to turn the dumb thing off - especially because every time it happens, it immediately jumps to another person's turn. By the time I get back to the character, I forget again.

My point is, Reactions would turn into the same thing. For my bard, I'd have to remember to play around with my Preset Reactions. "AOO on this target. Oh, and maybe this one too. Oh, and maybe this one. Okay. 3 targets for AOO. Now. What about Feather Fall? She has that spell, and we're fighting on cliffs, so maybe I should set that one too. But, if they shove me this way, I'll just fall onto a ledge 5 feet down. That's no big deal. Oh! But what if I get shoved more than 30 feet and fall off that side of the cliff? Okay, so let's set Feather Fall to 30+ feet, so if the game determines I'll fall more than 30 feet, I'll cast the spell, if I have the Reaction available still."

And that's just one character with nothing more than Level 1 spells. Imagine juggling 4 characters with all their potential reactions that you have to preset. And don't forget that although you preset them for this round, you have to do it all over again next round to make sure they work right. Why? Because the 3 targets you chose for AOO during the first round might not be the same ones you want to have trigger it during round 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. So, each round you'll likely have to play with the AOO Presets to make sure they are targeting the right enemies. I mean, Feather Fall you could probably always leave preset, but AOO, Shield, Counter Spell, Hellish Rebuke, Smite Reactions for Paladins, and other similar spells would just be a mess.

Yeah. No thanks. I'd rather have me pick my moves for combat and if an enemy comes within range to trigger my AOO, a popup springs up and all it says is, "Sazza triggers Attack of Opportunity. Use your Reaction to Attack Yes/No?" You pick No and move on. Real quick. It hardly even pauses the turn. Then Grick, the goblin, triggers AOO. Same message and move on. Bork, the goblin, hits you. Popup. "Bork has injured you. Use your Reaction to cast Hellish Rebuke Yes/No?" You pick no and move on. Nere casts Lightning Bolt. Popup. "Nere is casting Lightning Bolt. Use Reaction to cast Counter Spell Yes/No?" Click Yes and done. No more popups.

And, like Solasta, the windows could contain information for more than one person. "Sazza has triggered an Attack of Opportunity. Use your Reaction to Attack Yes/No?" But it shows an option for my MC, Lae'zel and Astarion, who are all within melee range of Sazza, to use their AOOs. So, I click Yes on all three and all three use their Reactions to slash at her before she leaves melee range. This would work with Counter Spell as well. Nere casts Lightning Bolt. My MC and Gale both know Counter Spell. Window pops up asking if I want to use my Reaction for Counter Spell. I pick Yes for Gale which immediately makes MC a No. In multiplayer, the first person to respond would be the one to cast it.

I'm sorry, but the more I think about Preset Reactions, the more terrible I think the idea is. Juggling them all is so not worth a smooth combat experience without pauses. There is simply too much to manage up front and remember each turn. I'd rather have no reaction system then to have to do all that work to preset reactions each turn.

Just another POV : No, it doesn't.

Rather than just answering a popup (which totally suck gameplay-wise), you have to think about your reactions during your turns and "cast them".

You manage your action, your bonus action, and eventually depending the situation you also check/manage/re-"cast" your reactions.

It's way more entertaining to me than constant popup breaking the flow of combats and/or ridiclous animations that will break immersion even more.

@GM : no, you wouldn't have to remember everything.
That's what a UI is also usefull for.

Well, it does, for me.
You don't have to agree, as I don't agree with you, just to accept that this si my opinion on the matter.

I would HATE for my reactions to become something that I need to REMEMBER setting up before passing turn, every single time, when the chance to actually use them may not even present itself.

I'll take an "annoying interruption" over that cumbersome and convluted system every day, any day.

You never forget your actions and bonus actions. Why would you "have to remember" about your reactions ?
Because you're used to Dnd ?

(Ofc, you should consider that reactions would not be hidden anymore... I totally forget them too currently but I dont necessarily need a popup to think about them)

I'm mostly sure most of us never experienced all the exemples attempting to prove that "popup is the only way" in solasta. (exemples I agreed with previously, but things have changed in patch8).


Too much ? Can you please give me the worst exemple of a class that have "so much reactions to manage" ?

I can think of wizards of course that could have to deal with shield, counterspell, feather fall (depending the situation) and AOO (mostly useless) at the same time.

Ofc I dont know DnD very well. Is there a worst exemple ?

Another extremely relevant consideration is turn length. When people have more distinct actions during a turn, their turn length will increase exponentially as they consider all options simultaneously. Not only would players (in the case of pre-actions) have to take time choosing which preaction(s) to activate AND the target(s), they'd also need to consider how those decisions combine with the rest of their turns - action, movement, bonus action. While I don't agree that BG3's decisions should be made solely with multiplayer in mind, pre-actions would make multiplayer significantly more tedious while not really affecting singleplayer turn length (since you're playing all the characters, and thus are theoretically fine however long a character's turn takes). Negative in once case + neutral in the other = net negative.

Whereas pop-up reactions are immediate yes/no decisions, and since you'll likely only have 1-2 reaction opportunities each round (more if you're doing something basic Protection Fighting Style I suppose...), there's many less things to consider. It's basically a single question: "Do I see something that looks likely to happen and would be a significantly better use of my reaction, or should I take this guaranteed reaction right now?"

Imagine the amount of minutes WASTED in total, over an entire playthrough, when at every turn you'll have to spend a certain amount of time pre-planning to react to things that may as well never happen. selecting specific target that may as well never do what you were expecting them to, only to spare yourself the "trouble" of doing something like "Left click to confirm, Right click to pass" when a reaction comes out.

You're right, it's something they have to think about.

But I'm not sure what you consider negative would really be... or at least I really think many players could see it as positive.

Is it boring when someone can cast an action, a bonus actions AND cutting words ? Would it be more boring if he could eventually spend 6 more seconds to wisely choose more than only one targets (maybe talking about it with his friends to find the better solution according to all of them).

Sure, you dont choose your targets for hellish rebuke. Would it really be negative if someone would EVENTUALLY takes 3 more seconds to choose his targets ?

I really dont think so...

What about the wizard a the beginning of a combat next to a hole...
- Feather fall vs all allies
- Shield vs 3 ennemies
- Counterspell vs the ennemy caster but only vs spells lvl 3+

Next turn you may have to re-manage one of them.
One more the next turn, eventually.
And the combat is over.

You've probably spended 60 seconds of real gameplay with a class that have the biggest variety of reactions.
You could also only spend 5 more seconds if you just want to enjoy the cheap system we currently have.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be happy with popup. It's a great solution to have a good DnD experience.
But while I'd LOVE to see some kind of reactions in most upcoming TB games I'll play... popup is definitely not a mechanic that will create a lot of hype for such a system.


You would not have to spend time at every turn, thats just in your head.

On one hand "you"'re trying to say that there are SOOOO many reactions to manage and on the other one that popup doesnt appear SOOOO often and that its not so annoying...

There are not so many reactions to manage in DnD.
The 10 seconds wasted to click "no" 10 times is just wasted 2 times * 5 seconds to plan your reaction at the begining of a combat.

I don't think there's a perfect solution, but of the popular systems I've seen thrown around, I do think the customizable pop-up (i.e. off, auto, prompt me per reaction ability) is probably the best one. Anyone who really is bothered by it can just set it to "auto" or "off". Maybe if Larian is ambitious enough they can also give "auto" some logic/planning, but that's basically a dream right now.

There are some abilities that probably needs to be changed from 5E RAW to work with even the "customizable pop-up" system - i.e. the Diviner's Portent ability (which lets you affect ANY roll you can see, friends or foe) will trigger WAY too many pop-ups for even my taste.

The "QTE" system I've heard people talk about (i.e. interrupting things like in real Table Top) has potential, but in my experience I've never seen a happy marriage when bringing real time and turnbase mechanics together. However, I'd take it over only have the option to go automatic reactions.

I mean, even choosing the target ahead is already something that involves spending time, regardless of the TYPES of reactions available.

What's worse is that the system is bound to be completely ineffective. What if the target I select for my AoO or shield or Counterspell never actually does anything that triggers the reaction I set, but another does and I will just waste my reaction doing mothing because I didn't see it coming?

Because "QTE" is a very unfortunate description to use, as it implies that the decisions should be made QUICKLY, when that's definitely not the case. So I'm not sure why some users insist on sticking with it and create an ongoing misunderstanding.

The action is supposed to go on reasonably smoothly if you are quick to click a confirm or pass, but times needs to factually stop entirely and let you the time to decide.

And what if you click "no" for your AOO thinking that you'll have to use your shield or counterspell but no one attacks you and the wizard cast a cantrip that doesn't worth your spellslot ?
It's not an issue at all in both cases... You've made a mistake, you'll try to do better the next turn.

If things are pre-planned you just don't have to change anything. If not, you'll probably just click a few more pops-up.
In the end it's just a matter of a few seconds I'd personnaly rather spend to really play than to answer pops-up.

Because we are talking about different problems.
Aside for the fact that the basic AoE is arguably the least problematic type of of reaction to "waste", I'm not talking just about missing a chance to act, I'm talking about making a mental image of how the combat should go and then having an entirely different outcome.
Case in point: I set my counterspell on a caster, and then this caster decides to use a cantrip or do a staff melee attack, while the OTHER caster in the same fight goes for a fireball. How is that any better than the dumb toggle system we have currently, in the end?
Unless your idea of pre-planning would include a set of script conditions like a "IF THEN ELSE" (which incidentally would make it more effective at the price of being exponentially more cumbersome and slow).

If I had a "manual confirmation system" (or as you call it "a pop-up system) on the other hand I'd be able to REACT on a case-by-case basis.

I got that you are really adamant in being against this stuff for some bizarre reason, and that's your prerogative, but I'm not sure how "answering a pop-up" (or whatever may replace it) should count any single bit as a less legitimate part of "playing the game".
Well, no need to answer as it's a rhetorical question: it's not.

While writing the BG3 fan fic, I took all the characters to level 6. So, let's just take 4 of them. Astarion, Wyll, Gale and Karlach (I made her a paladin). They're fighting against a Drow Wizard, a goblin captain and 3 other goblins.

Popup Window Version

Scripted/Preset Reactions Version

As you can see, both can work. The only question is, which method do you prefer? Do you like setting up the Reactions beforehand, or do you want popups?

Keep in mind that this scenario worked out very well for the Scripted/Preset Reactions Version. It actually flowed very smoothly and worked well. Not all scenarios would work out so well, but this proves that it could. (I did actually play this out via Tabletop, so it isn't just made up in my head. I legit wanted to see how both would play out.)

The primary issue I have with this scenario is:

I must say, the Scripted/Preset Version did flow so much better. The Popup Version did have a LOT of stopping points. Even if they are quick, it really does make combat a jerking, choppy mess. Every few seconds, another popup occurs, making it a lot less fluid. Meanwhile, the Scripted/Preset Version did pretty much the same thing without any pauses or breaks in combat.

The real trick with the Scripted/Preset Version is that you really have to get used to paying attention to Reactions and managing them beforehand. You need to make sure that you're not forgetting them and that you're really thinking through them in advance. It's kind of like RtwP Scripts for your companions. You have to go through and take the time to really make sure they are doing what you want them to do. And, if they give you a Pre-Combat Phase to adjust all Reactions before the first round of combat, that would be REALLY helpful.

The true advantage of popups is that you can think Reactions through as combat is happening, so you, the player, are literally reacting to something happening. It may be choppy combat, but it's full control for the player, and it's more 1st-Time Player User Friendly. 1st-Time Players who don't know a thing about Reactions and such, can get a popup to help them think through it and walk through it. There's nothing to really help the 1st-Time Player figure out how to best set up their Presets for Reactions in the other version.

I don't know. I go back and forth, honestly. I think Ragnarok is right, when all's said and done. Let the player have a "Reaction Presets On" and "Ask" options, with the game set to Ask as default. That way, if the player is new to the game, the default setting is "Ask" which is the Popup Version. For more experienced users, the "Reaction Presets On" is the Scripted/Presets Version which allows the player to preset all their reactions and creates the Pre-Combat Phase so the player can preset their Reactions at the start of combat before the first character takes a turn.

Here's a separate idea:

What if they created a RtwP kind of button for the player to press? You are watching combat. You see an enemy casting a spell. You hit the "Reaction" button. Game pauses. Your UI comes to life, but only certain Reaction abilities are lit up, like Counterspell. You check the Combat Log. Enemy is casting Bane on Gale. Oh. No big deal. Let that one go. Hit the button again and let the combat resume.

Enemy comes up to attack Astarion. He looks like a baby goblin, so I don't worry about hitting the "Reaction" button to have him use Uncanny Dodge. However, the bugbear with the glowing poison mace comes running up to him. Before the bugbear even starts his swing, I hit the Reaction button to pause time. I quickly click on Astarion's Uncanny Dodge so that it's active in case the bugbear hits. Unpause. Bugbear misses and Uncanny Dodge is refunded to me. I have to remember to click it again if another enemy attacks him that I want to use it on.

Enemy shoves you. You see your character flying off the edge of a cliff. "Reaction" button. Your character is frozen in midair. Your UI is unlocked, and you see your reaction abilities pop up. Feather Fall is highlighted.

Then, on certain actions, like AOO, the game auto-pauses - because you wouldn't have time to respond if it didn't. The animation shows the enemy turn around and start to move away. Game pauses. Combat log pops open and there's a statement, "Enemy has triggered AOO." You see your attack buttons highlighted, including Paladin Divine Smite button. You attack, and it unpauses, showing your character swing at the enemy before they are able to run away.

For multiplayer, the "Reaction" button would only be able to be hit by the active player. So, if the enemy is charging at Player 1's character(s), Player 2 could not hit the "Reaction" button. However, if the enemy is casting an AoE spell, like Fireball, and targeting a location that would hit both Player 1 and Player 2, both players can hit the "Reaction" button and pause the game. Then they could discuss who is going to use their Reaction to stop the spell. To prevent one player from driving another player crazy by taking too long, maybe there could be a timer. Players only have 10, or 20, or whatever, seconds to decide what they are going to do in a multiplayer setting only. Single player wouldn't have a timer. Once the timer runs out, no Reaction occurs. The player took too long to decide.

This method would still be kinda choppy, but no popups. The game would pause only if you are fast enough to react, and only when YOU want it to. There would need to be a Reaction Window providing a set amount of time for a player to be able to react in. As long as they can hit the Reaction Button within that window, they can perform the Reaction. (So, kinda like those games where you have to hit X within a few seconds after it appears on your screen.)

This then forces players to pay closer attention to enemies when they're taking a turn so that you don't miss out on opportunities to React. Any messages that would need to be provided to the player could be done via the Combat Log - like with the AOO example I gave above. For the most party, when you hit the "Reaction" button, the Reactions you can use would simply be highlighted on your UI for you, and you can use them just like you would if it was your normal turn.

So, need to do an AOO? Only the Attack button would highlight indicating that you could click on the target and do an AOO. Once you get familiar with the system, you probably wouldn't even need the log to tell you it's for AOO. You'd see an enemy turn, the game would pause, the Melee Attack would highlight, you'd hover over the enemy and click on him/her, and the game would unpause. You'd watch your character swing at the escaping enemy.